skint1
Well-Known Member
That is so sad, that poor horse. If people were really so interested in "bonding" with their horse surely they'd understand that it needs to be a horse first
Expectations of 'bonding' with your horse detrimental to horse ownership?
- Thread starter Meowy Catkin
- Start date
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
something that has come back into my consciousness since my mare gave birth. The foal has quite quickly got very keen on having scratches and cuddles and will run over to me at 8 days old, whickering for some fuss.
I mean, that's amazing. She's gorgeous and it's really cute.
I am pretty sure I will feel very connected to her as she grows up, I pulled the membranes off her face while her hindlegs were still bundled up in her mum, and will be a central part of her life for as long as she's alive. but it's 100% my job to make sure that is tempered by her knowing what the boundaries are, how to behave when people are around and so on. It would be very easy, if you didn't understand how horse-human interaction can go wrong, to get waaaaaay too overinvested in the cute stuff at the expense of training.
I mean, that's amazing. She's gorgeous and it's really cute.
I am pretty sure I will feel very connected to her as she grows up, I pulled the membranes off her face while her hindlegs were still bundled up in her mum, and will be a central part of her life for as long as she's alive. but it's 100% my job to make sure that is tempered by her knowing what the boundaries are, how to behave when people are around and so on. It would be very easy, if you didn't understand how horse-human interaction can go wrong, to get waaaaaay too overinvested in the cute stuff at the expense of training.
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
Can someone send me a link?
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I've bred a lot of foals, and dealt with a lot of owners of foals, and I must say that the ones that do the best long term are those left pretty much alone, apart from basic handling, to be with their mothers for the first 6 months or so of their lives. And then after weaning left in their peer groups to learn about life as a horse for the following three or so years of their lives.
I've watched people doing "imprinting", and "bonding", and "early years" training (me neither, but it appears to involve putting a lot of random stuff - including saddles - all over and around really very young foals), to more or less universal detriment, or at best indifference. I've seen some very spoiled young horses, sometimes even dangerously so. A young foal's best teacher is it's mother; a young horse's best environment is in a herd.
I've watched people doing "imprinting", and "bonding", and "early years" training (me neither, but it appears to involve putting a lot of random stuff - including saddles - all over and around really very young foals), to more or less universal detriment, or at best indifference. I've seen some very spoiled young horses, sometimes even dangerously so. A young foal's best teacher is it's mother; a young horse's best environment is in a herd.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Arzada
Well-Known Member
People have asked when he will be introduced to the other 2 horses and her reply is that it will be a while yet. Day 3 and he is still alone. Cattle in adjoining field.
9tails
Well-Known Member
I bought a nice mare who in hindsight was quite shut down when she first arrived. She was always polite, though there was not much "there" if you know what I mean. 12 years later, she's still incredibly polite so I thank the people who put in the work in her formative years that produced such a lovely beast for me to enjoy, but she definitely has oodles of personality. I'm higher up the pecking order than any other human, but also her comfort blanket. She had a dental this week, she's normally sedated though only a pony sized amount will see her off with the fairies. This time, however, I had to stand away from the action and the normal amount of sedation didn't touch the sides so she needed a stronger dose. After the procedure and I was able to spend time with her, she was absolutely off her t!ts for a good hour or so swaying like a drunkard. I think my presence helps her to stay calm rather than adrenaline kicking in and overriding the drugs.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I missed that one. It must have been hidden in the comments about the name choice - which is clearly the more important issue!
Can you find when the other youngster is coming? I couldn't find anything about that when I looked but as she's an unhandled filly and the colt is only just gelded it might not be for a while either.
skint1
Well-Known Member
Actually, I had a thing happen to me today. Got this ID mare late last year, she had ulcers, treated those, looked after and handled her but stopped riding her as she was so unhappy about saddles and standing by the mounting block., After she was clear of them, I rode her and got bucked off almost immediately. Thought to sell her but suspected maybe she was in pain and some other contributory factors (saddle and diet), then covid happened so I started doing stuff with her on the ground, pole exercises, little puzzley games, walking in hand etc, no pressure or anything, just fun. Eventually got vet and physio and sure enough she needs some work so now we are doing rehab type groundwork and gradually reintroducing the saddle. Except....somehow I have really gained her trust and now she really looks to me for leadership, and I am a not greatly confident rider so what the hell am I going to do?!
When I first bought her I am not sure she'd ever been someone's horse, she was polite but distant and she didnt' really pay any attention to my ridden nerves but now she is incredibly attuned to me, she looks for me all the time even when others are working with her, and I don't feel worthy of this. I have recently reintroduced a saddle and I think I am nervous of the saddle and I think this is making her nervous, and tonight I was leading her up the driveway with the saddle and some tree surgeons came barreling round the bend in a van with a clattery trailer and I was startled, so was she, she was shaking. She is generally very brave, when I first got her we came face to face with a trials bike and I was a quivering wreck and she didn't give a damn, but I reckon now she would. So, all these people who are so into bonding, and I wasn't setting out to create this, better be sure that they are worthy of it. I am not, and now I have to get there somehow.
When I first bought her I am not sure she'd ever been someone's horse, she was polite but distant and she didnt' really pay any attention to my ridden nerves but now she is incredibly attuned to me, she looks for me all the time even when others are working with her, and I don't feel worthy of this. I have recently reintroduced a saddle and I think I am nervous of the saddle and I think this is making her nervous, and tonight I was leading her up the driveway with the saddle and some tree surgeons came barreling round the bend in a van with a clattery trailer and I was startled, so was she, she was shaking. She is generally very brave, when I first got her we came face to face with a trials bike and I was a quivering wreck and she didn't give a damn, but I reckon now she would. So, all these people who are so into bonding, and I wasn't setting out to create this, better be sure that they are worthy of it. I am not, and now I have to get there somehow.
skint1
Well-Known Member
Imprinting should be outlawed for all animals, it is a disgusting thing to do, and I couldn't agree more with everythng else you've said here.
Arzada
Well-Known Member
It was going to be 3 weeks but today she's not sure when they will go to get the filly.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
What do we make of the following.
I have an affectionate mare 12yrs old and been with me 8 yrs, always chatty and opinionated but very genuine.
Rushed into hospital on Sunday morning and I had not seen her since. I collected her this afternoon (thank god) and due to Covid could not go into the hospital, the staff brought her out to me. The mare spotted me from 60 yards away and sprang into a trot charging over to me dragging the vet nurse. The horse was very tense and uptight and pressed herself against me almost knocking me over. I took the horse and she galloped up the ramp leaving me at the bottom looking a bit of an idiot.
She neighed all the way home and when we unloaded she was still clinging to me and very uptight. I put her in her barn and went for water, she started screaming and crashing the slip rails until I returned. I ended up putting her in the school and sitting on the mounting block to watch her, I thought she wanted to explode but all she did was have a leisurely roll and a wander and then calmed down returning to her usual calm self until I left the school and she started shouting again. I put her to bed and all was peaceful until I picked the keys up to lock up and leave, she then started shouting again.
In my mind there is no doubt she was affected by being away from home and those that she knows, she most certainly did not like me going out of sight, her behaviour was far more dog like than horse. I am going to check her now and I hope she has shut up for the neighbours sake !
I have an affectionate mare 12yrs old and been with me 8 yrs, always chatty and opinionated but very genuine.
Rushed into hospital on Sunday morning and I had not seen her since. I collected her this afternoon (thank god) and due to Covid could not go into the hospital, the staff brought her out to me. The mare spotted me from 60 yards away and sprang into a trot charging over to me dragging the vet nurse. The horse was very tense and uptight and pressed herself against me almost knocking me over. I took the horse and she galloped up the ramp leaving me at the bottom looking a bit of an idiot.
She neighed all the way home and when we unloaded she was still clinging to me and very uptight. I put her in her barn and went for water, she started screaming and crashing the slip rails until I returned. I ended up putting her in the school and sitting on the mounting block to watch her, I thought she wanted to explode but all she did was have a leisurely roll and a wander and then calmed down returning to her usual calm self until I left the school and she started shouting again. I put her to bed and all was peaceful until I picked the keys up to lock up and leave, she then started shouting again.
In my mind there is no doubt she was affected by being away from home and those that she knows, she most certainly did not like me going out of sight, her behaviour was far more dog like than horse. I am going to check her now and I hope she has shut up for the neighbours sake !
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
She was definitely really happy to see a familiar face that she trusts and likes and that she wanted to go home after her stay at the vets. I think it also shows that you don't need to force a 'bond' it happens naturally at its own pace if you treat a horse well (and that doesn't mean that you can't correct undesirable behaviour).
The researchers have a lot more to explore RE human/horse relationships IMO.
The researchers have a lot more to explore RE human/horse relationships IMO.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
Done.
Could I also have the link please MC..??
As someone who is supremely open minded about most things I do wonder sometimes about certain "connections " with certain animals. Alot of people have or have had a horse, dog and so on that they would say is/was their XYZ of a lifetime. I'm not into all of the " I can't train my horse or it will ruin our bond" crap but I do sometimes think that our relationship with certain animals runs deeper than usual.
be positive
Well-Known Member
Could I also have the link please MC..??
As someone who is supremely open minded about most things I do wonder sometimes about certain "connections " with certain animals. Alot of people have or have had a horse, dog and so on that they would say is/was their XYZ of a lifetime. I'm not into all of the " I can't train my horse or it will ruin our bond" crap but I do sometimes think that our relationship with certain animals runs deeper than usual.
Being a YO and having done a fair bit of buying and selling I obviously handle more than the average owner and there are definitely some that get under your skin more than others, a few 'projects' came and never left for various reasons, I currently have 4 here of mine, they are all pretty useless but they have stayed and will stay until they are pts, of those one is very special, some liveries I can take or leave others just have something that draws me to them, they all get treated equally by me but some a little more equally
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I'll PM you now SLH.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
People think that I have a bond with my horse because of the things I can get him to do so easily and how well behaved he can be. Spoiler alert: It's not a bond.
He's just insanely aware of peope's body language and intentions. I'd say he is intelligent, but there have been moments when Ive questioned that, tbh.
I am aware of what my body is doing and saying, therefore he responds a certain way. If you're a thoughtful person, you can get a lot out of him.
What really ticks me is keeping horses in isolation. They are a HERD animal. You are not their herd. Other HORSES are.
My horse was a stallion for the first 4 years of his life and he was kept rather isolated, not sure why because he's always been easy to handle and good in a herd.
He beat the shit out of himself and still has scars from it. He self mutilated so badly. He was gelded and allowed to live a social life, he doesn't do it anymore (he's 8 now).
But the wounds he inflicted on his own body were shocking. I want to say not so nice things to the people that allowed this to happen.
So when I see a horse kept in isolation for reasons that are BS/purely selfish human driven, it drives me bonkers.
He's just insanely aware of peope's body language and intentions. I'd say he is intelligent, but there have been moments when Ive questioned that, tbh.
I am aware of what my body is doing and saying, therefore he responds a certain way. If you're a thoughtful person, you can get a lot out of him.
What really ticks me is keeping horses in isolation. They are a HERD animal. You are not their herd. Other HORSES are.
My horse was a stallion for the first 4 years of his life and he was kept rather isolated, not sure why because he's always been easy to handle and good in a herd.
He beat the shit out of himself and still has scars from it. He self mutilated so badly. He was gelded and allowed to live a social life, he doesn't do it anymore (he's 8 now).
But the wounds he inflicted on his own body were shocking. I want to say not so nice things to the people that allowed this to happen.
So when I see a horse kept in isolation for reasons that are BS/purely selfish human driven, it drives me bonkers.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I'm so glad that your horse's situation improved and that now he is with you CC. I hadn't actually considered that a horse could become so distressed that it would self mutilate. Heartbreaking.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Yes this can definitely happen... I've seen weanlings bite themselves in distress.I'm so glad that your horse's situation improved and that now he is with you CC. I hadn't actually considered that a horse could become so distressed that it would self mutilate. Heartbreaking.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Well I've learnt something new.
SEL
Well-Known Member
And what's really, really cute when they are a few weeks old is a lot less cute at 15h and 700kg!!
J&S
Well-Known Member
AA's post reminded me of a situation: Before moving to Devon 20 + years ago I had a NF mare and a ch mare. I felt I could not bring them both with me to start with so I loaned the NF mare to a very suitable, known home. After being in Devon for a while it became possible to bring her down to live on the same farm as my other horse. So, off we went to fetch her. When I walked into the field to catch her she became so excited, my friendly farmer/driver was rather surprised at her antics as we had come to pick up a pony suitable for my 10 year old stepdaughter! Anyway, head collar on and standing just near the ramp of the horse box and deliberating on what bandages to put on and pony takes matters into her own hooves and loads herself straight up! We used to take her to various PC and local show events once back in Devon, and it took quite a while to get her to load nicely on the way out, I do think she was worried I was going to take her some where and leave her. No chance, she was very precious, owned from 4yrs - 29 yrs.
Chianti
Well-Known Member
I've read some of the relies to this post since it was put on and it's made me think. I started riding my pony when he was in a riding school. He was in a big group of geldings and obviously ridden and handled by a number of people. Because he's quite small and very good he often had little tots on him and was always at the back of the line on hacks. I was the first person to hack him out on his own or if we went out with someone else I'd encourage him to walk next to them. When the riding school closed I took him on loan and then bought him. We definitely have a connection in that he knows I am there for him. Despite being bottom of the pecking order in the field if I went to get him in and the next pony above him came over he would put his ears back and make faces at him. In my mind I wondered if he was saying ' That's my mum - get your own.' I know that much of his response is the expectation of food but I do think he likes having his person and not being one of the crowd. We're still at the yard and people have commented how he's much more forward going and more interested in his work. I don't know if he was unhappy in the riding school but I think he's happier now. I've had two other horses and have had different relationships with them. My first mare was quite independent in terms of her care but when I rode her it felt like we belonged to each other- something you can't explain but it was there. My second mare needed lots of care and I think she must have trusted me as I could do whatever was needed. So - do I / did I have bonds with any of them. I don't know - I think all you can hope is that you always do your best for them and they seem happy in that.
Muckymummy
Member
Like every person some horses dont want to bond... They do their job and want to be left alone... I try to find they're itchy bits to be honest and I think that's the key to training ????... one of the best horses I've ever had didn't like cuddles or grooming I tried everything just didn't like it... When he got injured we bonded because I just left him alone and did his wounds and I knew he appreciated it
Tally05
Active Member
To me you do create a bond..horse learns to trust you to provide its needs (including discipline/manners) like you would with a child/dog and you learn to trust that your horse isnt going to chuck you off without reason etc. A horse is still a prey animal though and not a wolf descendant, so its instinct will never be to protect you as part of its pack, and spoiling any horse/child/dog will always lead to problems! I hate the term furbaby..that means straight away it's going to be a little Sh..!