Expectations of 'bonding' with your horse detrimental to horse ownership?

[Cortez]

Horses are absolutely capable of being naughty, but the absolute king of naughtiness in the equine world is the mule.......I have a mule (unfortunately), and he spends his day thinking of things to do that will make me go mad.

I've thought of a way of defining this bond thing: it is a byproduct of good training, not a goal.

 

[Brownmare]

I have always hated the use of the word bond. To me it has connotations of obligation, even servitude and emotional desperation! I have different relationships with all my horses and some I have a real connection with but the starting point has to be a good working relationship built on mutual respect, then trust. If it develops into something more then great but there should be no pressure on either you or the horse for that to happen. Of the 3 I have now, the youngster is a goofy people person and our relationship is very much teacher - pupil. The mare is very sensitive and is only now after a year starting to trust me, I feel more like her therapist than a teacher! My older gelding has been through a lot of homes and on professional yards and he doesn't do fuss, he sees me as the Bringer of Food but interestingly when he went to horspital he barely ate anything til I went to see him 2 days after his op (and this is a horse who puts away up to 15kg haylage daily) so maybe he is more attached to me than I thought...

 

[DabDab]

Ps. "Manners" is another word I find quiet challenging as it is often, in my experience, used by people who inconsistently punish their horses in a somewhat over-emotional and 'for show' fashion.

Yes, I struggle with 'manners' for horses too. Good manners are a shaky enough concept in humans, let alone horses. It's not manners, it's just a pattern of behaviour that either it picked up intuitively or you decided to teach it. Among a lot of wonderful traditional horsemen/women I encountered when I was young, there are certainly a few that stick I'm the mind for slightly the wrong reason (not because they weren't good horse people) who were obsessed with this notion of manners. And unfortunately the slightly irrational "my horses don't so much as look at me without permission" (because of manners, silly) views that horsey people can be a little fond of expressing do a lot to push newer owners towards the woo bond people

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Yes, I struggle with 'manners' for horses too. Good manners are a shaky enough concept in humans, let alone horses. It's not manners, it's just a pattern of behaviour that either it picked up intuitively or you decided to teach it. Among a lot of wonderful traditional horsemen/women I encountered when I was young, there are certainly a few that stick I'm the mind for slightly the wrong reason (not because they weren't good horse people) who were obsessed with this notion of manners. And unfortunately the slightly irrational "my horses don't so much as look at me without permission" (because of manners, silly) views that horsey people can be a little fond of expressing do a lot to push newer owners towards the woo bond people

My two warmbloods are probably the easiest two to be around. I can’t take the credit for their formative years as they were 9 and 10 when I got them. Maybe they had a harsh trainer but I doubt it. However I think with consistent handling they’ve become even nicer to be around. For example, the younger of the two used to piss off when lunging when I first got him, he no longer does that, he was very fidgety to mount, now he’s great. I haven’t used a particular “method” just my own normal handling.

But I still allow them to express themselves within certain boundaries and I find this “cheeky” behaviour appealing. E.g. one of mine bows at every opportunity in case he gets a treat which he’s learnt from carrot stretches. However often with people who like “manners” their horses are what i term shut down. They know if they express any sort of “behaviour” that’s not exactly what they want they’ll be reprimanded, whereas I find it funny. I’d probably be more black and white (not harsh) with a youngster though until they were established.

 

[Auslander]

My two warmbloods are probably the easiest two to be around. I can’t take the credit for their formative years as they were 9 and 10 when I got them. Maybe they had a harsh trainer but I doubt it. However I think with consistent handling they’ve become even nicer to be around. For example, the younger of the two used to piss off when lunging when I first got him, he no longer does that, he was very fidgety to mount, now he’s great. I haven’t used a particular “method” just my own normal handling.

But I still allow them to express themselves within certain boundaries and I find this “cheeky” behaviour appealing. E.g. one of mine bows at every opportunity in case he gets a treat which he’s learnt from carrot stretches. However often with people who like “manners” their horses are what i term shut down. They know if they express any sort of “behaviour” that’s not exactly what they want they’ll be reprimanded, whereas I find it funny. I’d probably be more black and white (not harsh) with a youngster though until they were established.

This really resonates with me! Alf is a very different horse to the one who arrived 8 years ago. He was very shut down in terms of his interaction with people, and his manners were absolutely immaculate - I once accidentally left his door open and went to the supermarket - he was still in his stable when I got back an hour later - looking over the door that wasn't there, and waiting patiently for his tea! He was also liable to panic about things that didn't fit his ideas about how life should be, and always looked tense and worried.

Nowadays, he is a completely different horse - I can take him anywhere, do anything, and trust him implicitly. His manners aren't technically as good as they were - he does his own thing, and I let him get away with stuff that I wouldn't tolerate from any of the livery horses - but he knows how to behave when I get serious with him, and he's happy, interactive, and safe as houses to deal with. I didn't do anything in particular to turn him into the horse he is today - just ignored the crazy, and rewarded the normal.
He also runs through his carrot stretch routine if he wants treats - it's one of my favourite things about him!

 

[ycbm]

This really resonates with me! Alf is a very different horse to the one who arrived 8 years ago. He was very shut down in terms of his interaction with people, and his manners were absolutely immaculate - I once accidentally left his door open and went to the supermarket - he was still in his stable when I got back an hour later - looking over the door that wasn't there, and waiting patiently for his tea! He was also liable to panic about things that didn't fit his ideas about how life should be, and always looked tense and worried.

Nowadays, he is a completely different horse - I can take him anywhere, do anything, and trust him implicitly. His manners aren't technically as good as they were - he does his own thing, and I let him get away with stuff that I wouldn't tolerate from any of the livery horses - but he knows how to behave when I get serious with him, and he's happy, interactive, and safe as houses to deal with. I didn't do anything in particular to turn him into the horse he is today - just ignored the crazy, and rewarded the normal.
He also runs through his carrot stretch routine if he wants treats - it's one of my favourite things about him!

I saw similar in every racehorse I took on straight from training yards. It took them months to become anything like normal horses, they were completely institutionalised.

I saw a penful of Parelli horses at HOYS who looked the same, dead in the eyes, waiting to be told what they were allowed to do.

.

 

[pansymouse]

I have a good working relationship with Mads; she likes work and I like riding. She doesn't like been fussed over and I don't like doing all the non-ridden faffing about. In a tight situation she will take my word (or more precisely leg) for things but other than that I'm really just a colleague. I love her dearly and have an immense amount of fun with her but am under no illusions that she sees me as anything other than a decent provider. Her pony field mate on the other hand is always game for a cuddle and genuinely seems to like me - he doesn't belong to me

 

[milliepops]

isn't it wonderful though, how the institutionalised do learn how to become curious and confident when given the opportunity. Darcy unwinding from his uptight racehorse state of mind reminded me of ex-battery chooks learning how to be proper chickens

 

[scats]

isn't it wonderful though, how the institutionalised do learn how to become curious and confident when given the opportunity. Darcy unwinding from his uptight racehorse state of mind reminded me of ex-battery chooks learning how to be proper chickens

Sometimes when you see a horse every day, you often don’t notice the changes happening, then one day you look and think ‘my god, they are like a totally different animal now’.
Polly is now generally the most relaxed animal in the stable, to groom, tack up etc. I do sometimes forget that when she arrived, she spent most of the time box walking. Grooming and tacking up was like trying to deal with a whirling dervish. I think that’s purely down to feeling more settled and relaxed and her now understanding what is expected of her. She does have an incredible trust in me that she doesn’t have with others. If a vet, dentist, chiro or anyone she doesn’t know well enters her stable, those old behaviours creep back in, but she relaxes as soon as I’m with her. I don’t think we have some mystical bond, but I do believe she feels safe with me and recognises that if I’m around, I’m not about to let anything awful happen to her.

 

[ycbm]

isn't it wonderful though, how the institutionalised do learn how to become curious and confident when given the opportunity. Darcy unwinding from his uptight racehorse state of mind reminded me of ex-battery chooks learning how to be proper chickens

That's a great comparison

 

[Cortez]

The most shut down horse I've ever dealt with (I still have him - he's the one in my avatar, now 19) was a very badly beaten rescue horse from Spain. He would fall to the ground in terror if he thought he'd made a mistake and cower in the corner of his stable, turning his head away into the wall if you even looked over the door. He would grunt and flinch when being groomed, it was terrible. I have him ten years, he came good and has been a wonderful chap, working very well and happy. He's still a very, very shy, quiet horse, but I was delighted when one day, after I'd had him a couple of years, he gave me the tiniest little nip on the cuff of my shirt and knew that he could do it.

 

[ihatework]

The word bond is blumming awful!

I do however think there are some horses that come into your life where the personalities and chemistries are right and you just feel a deeper connection to that horse. It usually develops over time. Yes primarily based on training and mutual respect, but sometimes it’s just that little bit more.

My 4yo is ‘bonded’ to me. Me less so to him ? It is NOT a good thing. He has been a sensitive over-reactive little oik from the day he was born. I’ve had to be very conscious of making sure other people handle him and can do stuff with him. We still have a little way to go.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

To be honest I had a bond with Kia. I did have him 18yrs. We did everything from hacking to dressage to jumping to tree to endurance, had a bash at everything and I would say we understood each other perfectly.

I would also say I had a bond with the wee guy, he recognises me, recognises my authority and looks to me for confidence and direction.

However whether or not they love me I couldn’t really tell you. They are horses and can show affection but it is a completely different language. I wouldn’t not reprimand a horse because of a perceived bond, boundaries being pushed is not something I allow regardless but I do believe you develope a Closeness of understanding. I knew what Kia was going to do before he did it most of the time, just because I had observed his body posture expression and how he felt under saddle in most situations over the years. Didn’t mean he didn’t get a bollocking when he needed it.

Don’t really care what it’s called this deep connection we make sometimes with certain horses but it is real and should be cherished and shouldn’t really be classed as a hindrance imo

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Some very interesting thoughts. Thank you to everyone who replied.

From reading the thread it has definitely confirmed that the word 'bond' is used to describe two different relationships between horse and human.

One is based in reality and can be very deep and meaningful. Horses remember individuals and have preferences of who they would like to be around. I guess all this is obvious really as they are a social, herd animal with good long term memory.

The researchers could definitely use my gelding in their research into recognition of photos of people that a horse has had a bad experience with. He still remembers which vet treated his sore legs years ago when he had LV and he treats her with much more caution compared to other vets.

I think the second way that 'bond' is used (EG the way the person I know didn't want lessons in case it ruined the bond with their horse or - like in the advert - the horse is tricky with its hind feet so the horse and owner can't have bonded properly) is the more unhelpful interpretation.

It is important to try to understand which way it is meant before jumping to conclusions. I will definitely endeavour to do that.

 

[Shilasdair]

I would like to caution you all to avoid being trained by your horses.

One of mine is especially effective at moulding people to her will.

She was box-rested as a 5 year old, found it very dull and managed to entertain herself by making humans do tricks. She'd spill her water bucket (humans would sympathise and refill it), she'd knock things to the ground and pretend spook at them (sympathy and treats) and mysteriously was found with shavings bale plastic wrapped round her legs (humans carefully freed her, gave her treats).
It was only when I pointed out that she was deliberately tipping her bucket, knocking the same items over, and laboriously dragging plastic wrap through the bars with her teeth before arranging it around her legs, that they realised they'd been conned. Or trained.

I'm very sure she'd be happy to 'bond' with a human...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I would like to caution you all to avoid being trained by your horses.

The cat will not be happy. It's taken him years to get me to behave properly and to obey his every whim. He won't want his good work undone by the horses.

 

[Leandy]

Has this expectation of developing a magical 'bond' with your horse actually been detrimental to new horse owners?
Have their expectations of horse ownership been skewed into something unachievable?
Would they be better off just using good basic horsemanship (of whatever flavour) and let the relationship with their horse develop naturally over time?

Yes, yes and yes. Romantic, sentimental and anphropomorphic attitudes do horses (and many other animals) no favours at all.

 

[Gloi]

The cat will not be happy. It's taken him years to get me to behave properly and to obey his every whim. He won't want his good work undone by the horses.

I thought that too. My cat has me perfectly trained.

 

[Dwyran_gold]

I love mine but ive never really used the term bond but I understand it when people do, not in a sense of a mental connection but in an understanding of the expectation from each other over time xx

 

[SEL]

I thought that too. My cat has me perfectly trained.

Ours thinks we are work in progress - but at least with both of us working from home our door opening skills are improving. She has a perfectly good cat flap but it is beneath her dignity to use it when the slaves are around.

 

[tallyho!]

I have experienced that "bond"...

Not so with the two I have now I know them well, don't get me wrong but I don't feel the way I did with THAT one!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sorry for dragging this thread back up.

I am a little frustrated. I sometimes watch the youtube vids made by someone who has a nice arab.

They have recently bought a new youngster (not an arab) and they really have not set things up to go well. The youngster was sedated, weaned, travelled and then turned out on his own, paniced and nearly jumped a gate all on the same day. The youtuber has other horses but they were no where to be seen. Comments of course praising keeping him on his own as the youngster can 'bond' with the new owner.

eg

Also this gives him a chance to bond with his human family. To build trust and faith.

He'll have his companions, but right now he needs to bond with his new humans and his new home before that distraction, because he would get too excited to take any notice of them.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Sorry for dragging this thread back up.

I am a little frustrated. I sometimes watch the youtube vids made by someone who has a nice arab.

They have recently bought a new youngster (not an arab) and they really have not set things up to go well. The youngster was sedated, weaned, travelled and then turned out on his own, paniced and nearly jumped a gate all on the same day. The youtuber has other horses but they were no where to be seen. Comments of course praising keeping him on his own as the youngster can 'bond' with the new owner.

eg

??‍ Oh dear!

 

[milliepops]

Gawd. Another screwed up horse in the making

 

[Arzada]

Sorry for dragging this thread back up.

I am a little frustrated. I sometimes watch the youtube vids made by someone who has a nice arab.

They have recently bought a new youngster (not an arab) and they really have not set things up to go well. The youngster was sedated, weaned, travelled and then turned out on his own, paniced and nearly jumped a gate all on the same day. The youtuber has other horses but they were no where to be seen. Comments of course praising keeping him on his own as the youngster can 'bond' with the new owner.

eg

I found the videos of loading and then turning out into the field alone particularly hard to watch and really felt for the yearling. The breeder hadn't prepared him by either weaning or loading prior to the journey to the new home. But after that it got a whole lot worse once in his new home. Never previously away from his dam, never ever away from the only home he'd ever known, never away from other horses. So what did they do. Turned him out alone. She has at least 2 other horses at home and they were nowhere to be seen. The whole thing was terrible.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

They may get lucky and get away with it as thankfully he wasn't hurt during the gate incident and he is clearly desperate for company and is following them around, which of course will sadly convince people that it was the right way to do things.

There was even footage of leading the youngster while wearing flip flops.

A few people have made sensible comments, but they fell on deaf ears RE the owner and most of the commenters.

Also apologies for my awful spelling. *panicked*

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I found the videos of loading and then turning out into the field alone particularly hard to watch and really felt for the yearling. The breeder hadn't prepared him by either weaning or loading prior to the journey to the new home. But after that it got a whole lot worse once in his new home. Never previously away from his dam, never ever away from the only home he'd ever known, never away from other horses. So what did they do. Turned him out alone. She has at least 2 other horses at home and they were nowhere to be seen. The whole thing was terrible.

Yes very sad to watch. She spent ages choosing the youngster and could have arranged weaning, leading and loading training with the breeder before delivery.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Reading the comments further, her other horses are in her field which she takes the horsebox to, so far enough away to need to drive to.

 

[be positive]

Sorry for dragging this thread back up.

I am a little frustrated. I sometimes watch the youtube vids made by someone who has a nice arab.

They have recently bought a new youngster (not an arab) and they really have not set things up to go well. The youngster was sedated, weaned, travelled and then turned out on his own, paniced and nearly jumped a gate all on the same day. The youtuber has other horses but they were no where to be seen. Comments of course praising keeping him on his own as the youngster can 'bond' with the new owner.

eg

She is lucky he is not 'building trust and faith' being kept in for months recovering from a serious injury, poor thing will be isolated from other equines and is highly likely to suffer from separation anxiety, possibly for the rest of his life if he survives without further damage, it is not hard to have a happy medium, keep them in sensible company and handle daily would be kinder and give him a chance of having some normality in his life, he must be wondering what type of hell he has arrived at

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I hope she safely introduces him to her other horses ASAP.