Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

[LadyGascoyne]

The colts feel unwanted? How do the colts even know if they are wanted or not?

Why do we attach these feelings and emotions to animals?

I find veal to be absolutely disgusting. It's ok for a young calf to be taken from its mother, put into a small pen/shelter so they cannot move to much and develop strong muscle in order for the meat to stay soft and tender. This is ok because of intent and that they were brought into this world to be slaughtered for meat. Right.

It is sad that the colts were slaughtered and I am not sure that I would support a breeder that did this. Also depends on the details I suppose, but I'm not about to put them on trial or anything.

I just can't get over the emotions that people only attach to certain animals. I know why this happens, but still.

Also sad what people have to tell themselves in order to justify their meat consumption. You eat it because you like it. That's really it. You're free to do so.

Sorry should have been clearer, what I meant by ‘these colts feel unwanted’ was that ‘it feels as if these colts were unwanted’. I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that the ponies have understood the situation and have had their feelings hurt.

Re veal, you are referring to white veal, which is banned in the UK.

Generically, the term veal only means meat from calves under 1 year old. The calves I’m referring to are raised absolutely normally, and live out in the fields with their mothers until weaning. They are then turned out with other youngsters until they go for slaughter. Veal is often slaughtered at a later age than lamb.

 

[wispagold]

The colts feel unwanted? How do the colts even know if they are wanted or not?

Why do we attach these feelings and emotions to animals?

I find veal to be absolutely disgusting. It's ok for a young calf to be taken from its mother, put into a small pen/shelter so they cannot move to much and develop strong muscle in order for the meat to stay soft and tender. This is ok because of intent and that they were brought into this world to be slaughtered for meat. Right.

It is sad that the colts were slaughtered and I am not sure that I would support a breeder that did this. Also depends on the details I suppose, but I'm not about to put them on trial or anything.

I just can't get over the emotions that people only attach to certain animals. I know why this happens, but still.

Also sad what people have to tell themselves in order to justify their meat consumption. You eat it because you like it. That's really it. You're free to do so.

All of the veal producers I know of in the UK are producing Rose veal and it isn't produced in that way. Movement isn't restricted, the calves are kept in groups in sheds and are just not fed any green forage. Rations are straw or hay based. Straw based rations are quite normal anyway up until 6 months of age for calves as the rumen isn't sufficiently developed to be able to cope with grass silage before this time.

Rose veal schemes are providing farmers with viable options to rear male animals for a market where they have a value meaning they do not need to shoot them at birth... Which no farmer wants to do.

 

[ycbm]

I find veal to be absolutely disgusting. It's ok for a young calf to be taken from its mother, put into a small pen/shelter so they cannot move to much and develop strong muscle in order for the meat to stay soft and tender. This is ok because of intent and that they were brought into this world to be slaughtered for meat. Right.
.

I don't think that is connected with what anyone is saying about intent. I'm not sure anyone on the forum would support doing that with calves, which is why most people won't eat white veal.

 

[windand rain]

Well said LG both posts are exactly how I feel. I wont defend over breeding to get top notch stock but cannot deny everyone who breeds more than one foal for themself is trying hard to improve their stock. The ones that dont are often unable to find a home at a very young age. It is only when some mug like me who enjoys rearing youngsters takes them on and produces them as sane ridden horses that allows them a future of any kind. As I said on one of many of the nasty vitriolic posts on Facebook. If everyone creating a fuss about what is largely normal practice bought a colt foal then reared it properly, get it gelded, paid £1000 per year without livery costs for proper routine care, Say another £1000 for emergencies and possibly another grand for backing and schooling if you dont have a tiny experienced rider. Another 4000 for 4 years mileage to make it what is deemed to be of a suitable age/experience for a child to ride your investment is in the region of £10,000. Of course that is if it is done properly and if everything goes well with no accidents, temperament issues and quirks. You are then likely to be sneered at as over charging for your pony if you then ask for more than £1000 and are likely to be offered a lot less. It is not as simple as most laypeople think just give a meat foal a home without thought to the costs and experience needed to get a ridden pony at the end. I lived through the If you pay £5 for a foal you can have another free. A time when hill ponies and yes New Forests were cheaper to buy a foal than a bar of chocolate and the consequential cruelty that caused. Some literally knocked on the head with a blunt instrument or left to starve in garages and gardens with a few handfuls of grass then when young colts became young colts and the new owner becomes terrified of them. Sorry for the rant but it breaks my heart to see the cruelty that this causes and would far rather anything not reaching a decent price was sent to slaughter than ended up with the do gooders without a clue. Dog breeding is far worse and cat breeding is going the same way. Humans are vile in the way they treat animals but as that is a given the animals should be dead rather than have to endure them. More local abbatoirs should be opened and the meat valued

 

[Gloi]

The moral of the story seems to be - if you have to take animals to the abbatoir don't do it in a vehicle with your name on it.

 

[Lammy]

So will all those protesting be watching the online WPCS sales next week and buying up the wee colts that aren’t selling?

Time to put your money where your mouth is, after all people Are saying someone should have bought them. Or will it be the standard excuse of not funding overbreeding. Again leave open answers to my question of what to do with them now they are here. Just curious ??‍??

What a silly response.
Do you oppose animal cruelty? I imagine you do, therefore are you going to rehome all the animals currently in a shelter up and down the country so that more animals can be rescued?

I have said it until I’m blue in the face, I don’t think that taking the ponies to the slaughter house was the irresponsible thing if that was the only option left to the breeders. What I do think is irresponsible is overbreeding and potentially breeding the same amount of foals from the same mares/stallions for next year especially if there were conformational issues. But nobody knows whether either that was the only option left to them or whether they have bred the same number or have done this in the past.

Maybe instead of expecting everyone opposing the slaughter of the weanlings to buy all the other foals who come a cropper at the sales - it would be enough to expect them to write to the WPCS and put forward their thoughts on tighter breeding restrictions. I will be doing that this weekend and I hope people will join me.

Plus I don’t think anyone on this thread is saying someone should have bought them...more that they shouldn’t have been bred in the first place. But as I’ve said we don’t know the full circumstances to answer that question.

 

[teddypops]

What a silly response.
Do you oppose animal cruelty? I imagine you do, therefore are you going to rehome all the animals currently in a shelter up and down the country so that more animals can be rescued?

I have said it until I’m blue in the face, I don’t think that taking the ponies to the slaughter house was the irresponsible thing if that was the only option left to the breeders. What I do think is irresponsible is overbreeding and potentially breeding the same amount of foals from the same mares/stallions for next year especially if there were conformational issues. But nobody knows whether either that was the only option left to them or whether they have bred the same number or have done this in the past.

Maybe instead of expecting everyone opposing the slaughter of the weanlings to buy all the other foals who come a cropper at the sales - it would be enough to expect them to write to the WPCS and put forward their thoughts on tighter breeding restrictions. I will be doing that this weekend and I hope people will join me.

Plus I don’t think anyone on this thread is saying someone should have bought them...more that they shouldn’t have been bred in the first place. But as I’ve said we don’t know the full circumstances to answer that question.

Agree totally!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Sorry should have been clearer, what I meant by ‘these colts feel unwanted’ was that ‘it feels as if these colts were unwanted’. I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that the ponies have understood the situation and have had their feelings hurt.

Re veal, you are referring to white veal, which is banned in the UK.

Generically, the term veal only means meat from calves under 1 year old. The calves I’m referring to are raised absolutely normally, and live out in the fields with their mothers until weaning. They are then turned out with other youngsters until they go for slaughter. Veal is often slaughtered at a later age than lamb.

Ah yeah, that makes sense. I mean, they ultimately were unwanted as in not wanted by the stud and therefore sent to slaughter.

I suppose I've gotten more used to the American veal, as I lived there for quite awhile. Which would be "white veal" then.

I've never psychologically been able to bring myself to eat veal or lamb. Then again, meat eating is just not my thing and could be why I am a bit ignorant about distinctions between the types of veal. But if someone else enjoys veal or lamb, I'm not about to crucify them over it. It is their choice and I can only hope it comes from a good source.

There's also a saying that goes with Germany, something along the lines of Germans love to eat pigs, and you'll never see a live one in Germany. They're kept closed up in dark nasty buildings.

I am itching to know why the stud thought this was a good move though. Again, probably won't know, have no right to know, but curious as a cat nonetheless.

I've known a family that brought 2 horses to slaughter (short ride over to Belgium). Both horses had a variety of painful ailments and could not be ridden. Vet refused to put them down due to the fact they still ate, drank, and looked alive. The family knew their horses, knew that they suffered, and got little joy from their existence. Its a bit more difficult to just shoot a horse here and get it taken away, maybe easier in other areas. So off to slaughter they went. Still have mixed feelings about it, but not my horses or situation.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

What a silly response.
Do you oppose animal cruelty? I imagine you do, therefore are you going to rehome all the animals currently in a shelter up and down the country so that more animals can be rescued?

I have said it until I’m blue in the face, I don’t think that taking the ponies to the slaughter house was the irresponsible thing if that was the only option left to the breeders. What I do think is irresponsible is overbreeding and potentially breeding the same amount of foals from the same mares/stallions for next year especially if there were conformational issues. But nobody knows whether either that was the only option left to them or whether they have bred the same number or have done this in the past.

Maybe instead of expecting everyone opposing the slaughter of the weanlings to buy all the other foals who come a cropper at the sales - it would be enough to expect them to write to the WPCS and put forward their thoughts on tighter breeding restrictions. I will be doing that this weekend and I hope people will join me.

Plus I don’t think anyone on this thread is saying someone should have bought them...more that they shouldn’t have been bred in the first place. But as I’ve said we don’t know the full circumstances to answer that question.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Mine was a question to all those who actually said if there was nothing wrong with them they should have sold or the breeders should have hung into them until they did.

My post is just as valid as yours is ??

 

[fabbydo]

This place is very, very local to me. Just a few weeks ago, it was fined for badly mistreating a pony ( video evidence). Locals, including myself, used to defend it as we felt it was better to have livestock done locally instead of them having to travel. Then it changed hands and started doing horses. They come from miles away, even Ireland, and they are not treated well (hence the fine). It needs to be shut or sold to people who will do it properly.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

This place is very, very local to me. Just a few weeks ago, it was fined for badly mistreating a pony ( video evidence). Locals, including myself, used to defend it as we felt it was better to have livestock done locally instead of them having to travel. Then it changed hands and started doing horses. They come from miles away, even Ireland, and they are not treated well (hence the fine). It needs to be shut or sold to people who will do it properly.

Yes, that was the case from 2018.
Facts help a little, as from the date of that incident (and yes, rightly fined etc as appalling), they have been heavily scrutinised with supervisory visits and cameras.
What has happened since that ought to be in the public domain that you feel it should be closed?

 

[fabbydo]

Yes, that was the case from 2018.
Facts help a little, as from the date of that incident (and yes, rightly fined etc as appalling), they have been heavily scrutinised with supervisory visits and cameras.
What has happened since that ought to be in the public domain that you feel it should be closed?

Surely that in itself is enough?

 

[Gloi]

Surely that in itself is enough?

As FF said they have put systems in place since to hopefully stop it happening.

 

[AmyMay]

This place is very, very local to me. Just a few weeks ago, it was fined for badly mistreating a pony ( video evidence). Locals, including myself, used to defend it as we felt it was better to have livestock done locally instead of them having to travel. Then it changed hands and started doing horses. They come from miles away, even Ireland, and they are not treated well (hence the fine). It needs to be shut or sold to people who will do it properly.

And now they’ve shot three (apparently) under age colts.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

And now they’ve shot three (apparently) under age colts.

There is no minimum age, where did that come from?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Surely that in itself is enough?

That happened 2.5 years ago.
They have since been fined, on high level of supervision ever since.

 

[TheMule]

This place is very, very local to me. Just a few weeks ago, it was fined for badly mistreating a pony ( video evidence). Locals, including myself, used to defend it as we felt it was better to have livestock done locally instead of them having to travel. Then it changed hands and started doing horses. They come from miles away, even Ireland, and they are not treated well (hence the fine). It needs to be shut or sold to people who will do it properly.

That's not factually correct. The abattoir is rented to Potters one day a week. They used to rent an abattoir in Somerset before (for many years)
If you go and spend a bit of time there (as I have) you will realise that the horses are treated very well. Though I do agree, and did state on the other thread related to that case, that it was appalling what happened to that horse. But I do believe it was an isolated incident (indeed, as stated above, the CCTV is closely scrutinized) They also frequently have people like me in there and have a totally open door policy as there is nothing to hide.

And now they’ve shot three (apparently) under age colts.

What do you mean by 'under age'? What they did was perfectly legal

 

[TheMule]

Surely that in itself is enough?

So what do you propose is the alternative? If you shut the only slaughterhouse in the UK licensed for horses then the horses will have to travel over to Europe to be slaughtered. Learn from what they did in the US. Export on the hook, not on the hoof.

 

[AmyMay]

Mule, I believe the colts were under six months of age.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Mule, I believe the colts were under six months of age.

Can you post a link to somewhere that shows why that is relevant legally?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I'm a little tired of getting vile PM's. It now needs to stop. I have reported now as you are unpleasant but also using a new alias.

For the public record, I have nothing to do with any abbatoir.
I am not pro or anti the shooting of unwanted horses or ponies.
I am however VERY pro facts and will rigorously defend people's right to do as they will within the law.
I do not support made up stories whatsoever.

 

[Tiddlypom]

And in a new low, a poster recently started a thread on HHO specifically to identify the address of the stud that sent the weanlings .

Thread reported by many of us, and soon pulled.

Poster, you should be utterly ashamed of yourself.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I'm a little tired of getting vile PM's. It now needs to stop. I have reported now as you are unpleasant but also using a new alias.

For the public record, I have nothing to do with any abbatoir.
I am not pro or anti the shooting of unwanted horses or ponies.
I am however VERY pro facts and will rigorously defend people's right to do as they will within the law.
I do not support made up stories whatsoever.

Sounds like someone needs to grow up.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Mule, I believe the colts were under six months of age.

Well, a few things here. You "believe" but were they infact less than 6 months of age? And if so, is it legally relevant?



I sort of thought about this a bit. I could not drive healthy (if they were) colts to slaughter. I'd really have to be in a bad situation financially (or I guess even mentally?) to do so.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I sort of thought about this a bit. I could not drive healthy (if they were) colts to slaughter. I'd really have to be in a bad situation financially (or I guess even mentally?) to do so.

So you’ve said.

You do not know whether the people who did this were also in a bad situation financially and/or mentally.

ETA Though it’s none of our business as to whether they were or not.

 

[Goldenstar]

We don’t know the situation of the breeder and we also don’t that the colts where not imperfect in some way that made it wise not to pass them on .

 

[CanteringCarrot]

So you’ve said.

You do not know whether the people who did this were also in a bad situation financially and/or mentally.

ETA Though it’s none of our business as to whether they were or not.

I know that I don't know what kind of situation these people were or are in. I know it is none of my business and I have no right to know. I've said this numerous times! I literally just reflected on how *I* would feel or what would drive me to do this. Which is irrelevant really, and just a thought.

Are you twisting my words? Or what's your point? I'm a bit confused.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

We don’t know the situation of the breeder and we also don’t that the colts where not imperfect in some way that made it wise not to pass them on .

Exactly.

 

[Goldenstar]

I'm a little tired of getting vile PM's. It now needs to stop. I have reported now as you are unpleasant but also using a new alias.

For the public record, I have nothing to do with any abbatoir.
I am not pro or anti the shooting of unwanted horses or ponies.
I am however VERY pro facts and will rigorously defend people's right to do as they will within the law.
I do not support made up stories whatsoever.

paste them and copy them to here don’t let them hide in private messages .

 

[PapaverFollis]

paste them and copy them to here don’t let them hide in private messages .

You get a wrist slap from admin if you do that... if you screenshot them anyway. Not sure about C&P.