Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

[AmyMay]

Practicalities aside, how totally heartbreaking.

 

[Bernster]

This is where my brain and heart fall out with each other.
I know its the only way but it makes me so sad.
The other morning when i was refuelling I saw a cattle wagon. I tried to force myself not to look but in the end I made eye contact. It makes me so sad. Still not sad enough to go vegetarian though.

This is where my head is at. I wish we were set up in a way that meant this didn’t happen. And I really wish and hope that whatever end they meet, it is not stressful and painful, but I suspect this is naive. I am eating less meat though, and it was because i drove past a cattle meat lorry earlier this year.

 

[meleeka]

So for all of those saying that they shouldn’t be sent for slaughter the question is what to do with them?

Outwith the statement of shouldn’t been bred at all etc, that ship has sailed, they are here now. What does the breeder do with them? Can’t keep them, can’t run them on, perhaps can’t sell them/give them away, vet dispatch is very costly (I know I’ve done it) , So what to do with them?

It’s a business that presumably makes money so it’s not as if they don’t have the means to keep them until they can sell them on. If they’d have been female that’s probably what they would have done. Would it really be that expensive to keep them in a field with forage or geld theM ready to sell in the spring? I bet this stud will still have plenty of foals born next year and the year after and the excess will be bought by a meat man at a sale. N
Breeding ponies shouldn’t be undertaken unless a future for them is more than likely. Breeding from a horse just because it has a womb is something that happens and that’s just wrong imo.

 

[shirl62]

I for one was very distressed at the video seeing these little babies unloading into the slaughter house. There was no information regarding whether these little ones had the chance to be sold or even given away...I know some might say they might have ended up abused/starved etc but there are plenty of horse people who could have given these babies a good home ...My sis and I would have had them had we known.. A friend local to us breeds sec A's and has no trouble selling them even during this Covid time...I know I sometimes think with my heart, but this is the person I am and are not ashamed of it...A fair amount of tears have been shed this evening...

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

It’s a business that presumably makes money so it’s not as if they don’t have the means to keep them until they can sell them on. If they’d have been female that’s probably what they would have done. Would it really be that expensive to keep them in a field with forage or geld theM ready to sell in the spring? I bet this stud will still have plenty of foals born next year and the year after and the excess will be bought by a meat man at a sale. N
Breeding ponies shouldn’t be undertaken unless a future for them is more than likely. Breeding from a horse just because it has a womb is something that happens and that’s just wrong imo.

That’s not answering the question. Running on takes money, everyone is struggling this year. They would need passporting, chipping, gelding isn’t cheap either. If they had gone to a sales and then went to the meat man this wouldn’t have been an issue. Excess stock needs to go somewhere.

Ruining someones livelihood, name etc over actually being responsible is not acceptable. Many people feel the same about people Selling on older horses, people say better going to the bullet etc. This is the same.

I agree there is too much breeding but these ponies were conceived before the world went to hell in a hand basket.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I for one was very distressed at the video seeing these little babies unloading into the slaughter house. There was no information regarding whether these little ones had the chance to be sold or even given away...I know some might say they might have ended up abused/starved etc but there are plenty of horse people who could have given these babies a good home ...My sis and I would have had them had we known.. A friend local to us breeds sec A's and has no trouble selling them even during this Covid time...I know I sometimes think with my heart, but this is the person I am and are not ashamed of it...A fair amount of tears have been shed this evening...

All 3 have been for sale since 2 months old and have not been bought.

The people and their studs page have been bullied off Facebook.

 

[FestiveG]

One reason for keeping section a mares in foal is that it reduces the risk of laminitis. It is the natural state for mares to carry a foal while she has one at foot.

 

[meleeka]

That’s not answering the question. Running on takes money, everyone is struggling this year. They would need passporting, chipping, gelding isn’t cheap either. If they had gone to a sales and then went to the meat man this wouldn’t have been an issue. Excess stock needs to go somewhere.

Ruining someones livelihood, name etc over actually being responsible is not acceptable. Many people feel the same about people Selling on older horses, people say better going to the bullet etc. This is the same.

I agree there is too much breeding but these ponies were conceived before the world went to hell in a hand basket.

It’s very generous of you to blame Covid, but this has likely been happening for years. It’s strange that none of the excess were fillies. It wouldn’t be of course, because they can make their owner money on account of having a womb. It’s a sad world where only native ponies that can breed have any value, to just continue the cycle of breeding just because we can.
Having bred the ponies in the first place, the stud should have contingency plans for having more colts than mares. There’s a 50% chance of it after all.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

It’s very generous of you to blame Covid, but this has likely been happening for years. It’s strange that none of the excess were fillies. It wouldn’t be of course, because they can make their owner money on account of having a womb. It’s a sad world where only native ponies that can breed have any value, to just continue the cycle of breeding just because we can.
Having bred the ponies in the first place, the stud should have contingency plans for having more colts than mares. There’s a 50% chance of it after all.

Again not answering the question of what to do with them right now. That’s my question, they are bred to be sold, they don’t sell, so what to do with them?

Can go round and round in circles over ‘could have would have should have’ but what to do with them other than send them to the meat man, if they had gone to the sales then to the meat man would you feel better?

 

[honetpot]

That’s not answering the question. Running on takes money, everyone is struggling this year. They would need passporting, chipping, gelding isn’t cheap either. If they had gone to a sales and then went to the meat man this wouldn’t have been an issue. Excess stock needs to go somewhere.

Ruining someones livelihood, name etc over actually being responsible is not acceptable. Many people feel the same about people Selling on older horses, people say better going to the bullet etc. This is the same.

I agree there is too much breeding but these ponies were conceived before the world went to hell in a hand basket.

The thing is some Welsh breeders have been over breeding for years, WPCS has been very relaxed about the amount of breeders sending foals through their sales, for every one that makes a couple of thousand, there must be at least ten that sell for not much more than £50, so the virus has only made something that was already a problem worse.

]'The 73 Section A ponies, owned by Evan Lloyd Evans of the Criccieth Stud, sold for a collective £32,570 at the Brightwells spring sale, Royal Welsh Showground.
Topping the consignment was the 12-year-old grey mare Criccieth Melisa which sold to Miss Wilson of Buarth Mawr, Denbigh, for £2,800.
A further 26 Criccieth ponies had been catalogued but were held back as their foals were not old enough to travel. They will be offered at the autumn sales.'
So he was wanting to sell nearly a hundred animals through the sales.
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/criccieth-stud-ponies-sent-to-world-horse-welfare-307900

One reason for keeping section a mares in foal is that it reduces the risk of laminitis. It is the natural state for mares to carry a foal while she has one at foot

So there is no hope for Section A geldings then, I have two, and neither have had laminitis.

 

[Michen]

I think any of you (myself included) who eat meat, and are judging what happened here, are absolute hypocrites.

However heatbreaking,and I know it is.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

The thing is some Welsh breeders have been over breeding for years, WPCS has been very relaxed about the amount of breeders sending foals through their sales, for every one that makes a couple of thousand, there must be at least ten that sell for not much more than £50, so the virus has only made something that was already a problem worse.

]'The 73 Section A ponies, owned by Evan Lloyd Evans of the Criccieth Stud, sold for a collective £32,570 at the Brightwells spring sale, Royal Welsh Showground.
Topping the consignment was the 12-year-old grey mare Criccieth Melisa which sold to Miss Wilson of Buarth Mawr, Denbigh, for £2,800.
A further 26 Criccieth ponies had been catalogued but were held back as their foals were not old enough to travel. They will be offered at the autumn sales.'
So he was wanting to sell nearly a hundred animals through the sales.
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/criccieth-stud-ponies-sent-to-world-horse-welfare-307900


So there is no hope for Section A geldings then, I have two, and neither have had laminitis.

Thereis no question that there are many Welsh breeders. I bought my boy from the Autumn cob sales in 2018. His breeder had four there to be sold. All did. The breeding of horses and ponies does need to be scaled down but you cannot control the backyard breeders, if the licences studs slow down they will just breed more to fill the gap.

Nobody seems to be willing to answer my question though. Which to me says it all.

We are all horse lovers, however excess stock has to go somewhere.

 

[Lammy]

Can go round and round in circles over ‘could have would have should have’ but what to do with them other than send them to the meat man, if they had gone to the sales then to the meat man would you feel better?

I think most of us understand that these ponies ending up at the meat man is a preferable end to being abandoned on the welsh hills. What’s done is done.

However, you can bet the mares that have produced these colts are probably in foal again for next year. The breeder probably hasn’t reduced the amount of mares put in foal and the overbreeding will continue and next year there will be another batch of colts at the door of the slaughter house. That is where the problem lies. And if a breeder does that year on year they are just as bad as the travellers indiscriminately breeding useless cobs in my eyes.

 

[maggie62]

Trying to sell foals aged from 2mths old ?.....not the best time. Seems like they were in a hurray to reduce the colt numbers. I dread to think the amount of colts that are disposed of in this way by all breeders. Surely in this time of technology a foetus could be sexed in the womb and aborted if the undesirable sex. Far better doing that than to have to slaughter a few months after birth. I guess it's the old story of being financially unviable. The other aspect is if you keep the stock numbers fairly low you will have horses in demand therefore driving the price up. I find it all very distressing but then I am an old gimmer.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Trying to sell foals aged from 2mths old ?.....not the best time. Seems like they were in a hurray to reduce the colt numbers. I dread to think the amount of colts that are disposed of in this way by all breeders. Surely in this time of technology a foetus could be sexed in the womb and aborted if the undesirable sex. Far better doing that than to have to slaughter a few months after birth. I guess it's the old story of being financially unviable. The other aspect is if you keep the stock numbers fairly low you will have horses in demand therefore driving the price up. I find it all very distressing but then I am an old gimmer.

Im sorry but WHAT? That’s a slippery slope. Aborting the undesired sex? I cannot believe that has been suggested. We start that with animals then where does that lead? Im absolutely speechless.

 

[teddypops]

Im sorry but WHAT? That’s a slippery slope. Aborting the undesired sex? I cannot believe that has been suggested. We start that with animals then where does that lead? Im absolutely speechless.

So it’s better for them to be born before killing them?

 

[SO1]

I don't eat meat but I do agree with what others have said. These are livestock and being bred to give the breeder an income be that though selling them as potential riding ponies or as meat. The breeders are not breeding them as pets they are being farmed.

Of course it is sad but the most important thing is that the life they do have is good and that if they are sent to slaughter it is done in as humane way as possible so they have a comfortable journey and their last moments are as peaceful and stress free as possible.

Small native ponies have a very limited market - either as driving ponies, riding ponies for children or very light adults or companions. Large natives are a different matter all together, Highlands, and Connemara's are particularly expensive and well sought after.

Horses and Ponies are for a lot of people on this forum family pets but for many they are commodities to be bought and sold and income to be made from.

 

[meleeka]

Again not answering the question of what to do with them right now. That’s my question, they are bred to be sold, they don’t sell, so what to do with them?

Can go round and round in circles over ‘could have would have should have’ but what to do with them other than send them to the meat man, if they had gone to the sales then to the meat man would you feel better?

I have answered. If they were mine I’d turn them all out in a field for the winter with forage and try again in the Spring.
I might even speculate to accumulate and have them gelded before sale. I’d also think very carefully about how many ponies I could breed and sell each year so there wasn’t this wastage.

 

[windand rain]

vasectomies for stallions and contraceptives for mares have been tried in forest and hill bred ponies. The conservation grazing is maintained and the herd dynanics kept in order trouble is it only takes one stallion or a few mares to be missed and you are back to square one. It wasnt very successful. The New Forest are doing their best but there is sometimes stallions and mares dumped

 

[SO1]

I think the market for New Forests is now a lot better than perhaps in the past, they are probably more versatile than say a section A due to their size. The breed society I think has done a lot to promote the breed and manage numbers and maintain quality.

vasectomies for stallions and contraceptives for mares have been tried in forest and hill bred ponies. The conservation grazing is maintained and the herd dynanics kept in order trouble is it only takes one stallion or a few mares to be missed and you are back to square one. It wasnt very successful. The New Forest are doing their best but there is sometimes stallions and mares dumped

 

[windand rain]

So it’s better for them to be born before killing them?

Yes better for them to be born and stay with mum for months before weaning and slaughtering them. Kinder and less dangerous for the mare
Cows have calves removed at days old and bull calves slaughtered that in my view is far worse

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

So it’s better for them to be born before killing them?

Have a think about the whole picture please, this has been made illegal in humans in Britain so why would we do it to animals.

 

[teddypops]

Have a think about the whole picture please, this has been made illegal in humans in Britain so why would we do it to animals.

This has nothing to do with humans. We are speaking about horses here so I don’t need to. So you think it’s better to allow animals to be born then to kill them?

 

[teddypops]

Yes better for them to be born and stay with mum for months before weaning and slaughtering them. Kinder and less dangerous for the mare
Cows have calves removed at days old and bull calves slaughtered that in my view is far worse

Better that breeders stop breeding really rather than having excess stock.

 

[Frumpoon]

There must be something wrong with me because I found the footage very sad and very very disturbing

I think the women filming had every right to stand in a public place and film and I’m not certain I could have stayed silent in their shoes either

Its not hypocritical to feel terribly sad that this happens

This isnt a forum called Lamb and Hound or Cow and Hound so it is inevitable that people here will feel sadness and empathy for those poor ponies

 

[Frumpoon]

All 3 have been for sale since 2 months old and have not been bought.

The people and their studs page have been bullied off Facebook.

Good

 

[Nudibranch]

The WPCS should take a leaf (or several) out of the book of some of the other native breed societies. The wastage is huge. They are the breed of my homeland, and I grew up with them, but I have nothing to do with them now.

I expect some of those condemning the slaughter are probably the types who will be posting on here about their "rescued babies", asking how they can create a "bond" and then trying to pass them on again when they mess up the job of breaking and producing, and can't do a thing with them because of their "history". The breed I am involved with now commands a decent price for a youngster, and ready backed or ridden on animals just don't reach the market. Demand considerably outstrips supply and that's a far better model for the welfare of the animal.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

This has nothing to do with humans. We are speaking about horses here so I don’t need to. So you think it’s better to allow animals to be born then to kill them?

Yes, in the short. You are talking about putting horses through the stress and trauma of abortions, by the time an equine foetus can be sexed it will be quite large and the chemicals used to abort are dangerous. Abortions are traumatic, birthing and raising a young animal is nature. People are only upset by this as they didn’t go to the sales first.

Thousands of animals are born, raised and sent to the slaughter house to enter the food chain every year.

 

[honetpot]

Thereis no question that there are many Welsh breeders. I bought my boy from the Autumn cob sales in 2018. His breeder had four there to be sold. All did. The breeding of horses and ponies does need to be scaled down but you cannot control the backyard breeders, if the licences studs slow down they will just breed more to fill the gap.

Nobody seems to be willing to answer my question though. Which to me says it all.

We are all horse lovers, however excess stock has to go somewhere.

The owners of these ponies are not back yard breeders, they have bred ponies that qualify and win, RIHS and HOYS.
'Horse of the Year Show 2019 Mountain & Moorland Ridden Pony,Group Section A. 2nd Springbourne Cartier. '
I have no problem with them going for meat, it's a quick end, buts lets everyone be honest, some of the larger breeders are just in it for money and if it's not going to win in the show ring they get culled as foals, or when the market was stronger sold through auctions with no papers. By giving the illusion that everything they breed does well, it inflates the price of their stock.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Trying to sell foals aged from 2mths old ?.....not the best time. Seems like they were in a hurray to reduce the colt numbers. I dread to think the amount of colts that are disposed of in this way by all breeders. Surely in this time of technology a foetus could be sexed in the womb and aborted if the undesirable sex. Far better doing that than to have to slaughter a few months after birth. I guess it's the old story of being financially unviable. The other aspect is if you keep the stock numbers fairly low you will have horses in demand therefore driving the price up. I find it all very distressing but then I am an old gimmer.

Advertised at 2 months, wouldn't have left the farm til weaning.