Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir
- Thread starter Frumpoon
- Start date
ester
Not slacking multitasking
That would be my concern when people are saying they should run them on for 3 or 4 years, that isn't free and we have plenty of shitty stud neglect stories. I'd rather they had done this.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Again not answering the question those ponies are here now.
Breeders don’t breed to keep. If that was the case none of us would have a horse.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Quite, thank goodness not everyone has to breed horses in order to actually acquire one!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
oh do bog off, reported
tristar
Well-Known Member
if what they bred was good enough, they would not have a problem selling them for good prices or problem keeping them till 4 yrs
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
the problem with that is that no one is willing to spend £5k on a just backed 12hh pony. So they would still have problems selling them.
until people are willing to pay decent prices for well bred ponies this sort of thing will continue
Cloball
Well-Known Member
Pretty much the whole continental warmblood and racing industry thoroughbred breeding model is the same. Is it right? Of course not.
There is soo much waste in the farming industry. Be it male animals being slaughtered after birth or supermarkets throwing away unsold food. We are a wasteful society.
I wonder if there is more waste this year as the sales are online and there hasn't been the same show scene? Unless you can present your foal with a video and photographs, difficult if you have a lot of unhandled stock or aren't tech savvy, they're unlikely to sell. Who knows how many people bid, watched or knew about the sales, I wonder if the 'meat man' would bother? I'm not sure you could get away with putting poor youngsters online for all to see rather than leaving them at the sales which seems to happen not infrequently. There's a pretty infamous stud out this way that always seems to have bother and yet still wins shows.
Maybe it is a better sales model as it takes a bit more 'effort' , visibility and is difficult to do with large numbers of foals?
I wonder if there is a link between the over breeding of certain natives and the ones that seem to struggle with numbers at all like the fell etc?
meleeka
Well-Known Member
£5k? Are you saying that’s how much it costs to produce a Section A pony to 3?
ihatework
Well-Known Member
You are completely spot on.
Any one of us on here that supports racing or elite horse sport is, indirectly, supporting the mass over breeding of horses. And in their cases they are less well adapted to being kept on a shoestring if they fall into the wrong hands.
tristar
Well-Known Member
i been looking at ponies lately and come to the conclusion i will roll the dice with our pony till he`s trained, a good pony is worth a lot of money, i feel 4 yrs is the start and the price should go up from then
my experience only, if its good enough you get offers, people see the horse or pony and want it
ihatework
Well-Known Member
For any real profit it should do.
But let’s look at a real shoestring, back of fag packet calculation - based on getting a pony to 4 and doing 16 weeks training, because let’s face it Mrs Watson-Smythe and darling Penelope need reassurance this gold plated pony is safe!
Mare contribution, say good mare is worth 1K and has 5 foals. Mare contributes £200.
Stallion contributes £100.
£500/year to keep and that’s with minimal vet intervention across the herd and no real income if you own your land (god forbid if you need to rent). £2000
16 weeks of training, 5 days a week, £10/hour. £800.
So that pony has cost £3100 and that is really costing it tight.
Then you need to add on £1900 for the stress of dealing with Mrs Watson-Smythe and Penelope
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
I'm not a breeder of small ponies but I don't think that would be a ridiculous price, if people are saying they should be carefully AI bred etc instead of running with a stallion, you'd be looking at a big old chunk just to get and confirm the mare in foal, that mare is probably going to be coddled more during her pregnancy as there is the need to recoup costs for every foal rather than hope for the best, so stabling, bedding, staff... foal down indoors, fed/feet/wormed etc throughout the next few years and then send for backing as CG has mentioned a 12hh backed pony.
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
Whilst it is shocking for us horse lovers, it really isnt any different to my lambs going to slaughter. They are cute too you know, before they make it to the plate. I just dont think anyone but those who have decided to be vegan, can stand in judgement on this without being dreafully speciesist. *is that a word who knows*
SO1
Well-Known Member
I think there is a problem with the market for small breed natives.
If Welsh farmers want to get a decent income from ponies maybe breeding Welsh ponies which are in plentiful supply and often not suitable for novice children or adults is not the way to do it.
If they have land and want to bred equines maybe invest in breeds that are hardy but more sought after such as Connies or Highlands or are they restrictions as to what breeds or sizes they can run out the Welsh Mountains.
A lot of the other native pony societies seem to be going down the route of more selective breeding to reduce numbers and keep prices up.
Cost of gelding colts also an issue for breeders but colts difficult to sell as most people who have horses don't own their own land and not easy to find livery that will take colts.
If Welsh farmers want to get a decent income from ponies maybe breeding Welsh ponies which are in plentiful supply and often not suitable for novice children or adults is not the way to do it.
If they have land and want to bred equines maybe invest in breeds that are hardy but more sought after such as Connies or Highlands or are they restrictions as to what breeds or sizes they can run out the Welsh Mountains.
A lot of the other native pony societies seem to be going down the route of more selective breeding to reduce numbers and keep prices up.
Cost of gelding colts also an issue for breeders but colts difficult to sell as most people who have horses don't own their own land and not easy to find livery that will take colts.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Thats how much it would cost if it wasn't done the way it is.
You would be looking at at least £1500 to get a foal on the floor (STUD fee, vet fees, cost to keep mare etc) then you have the cost of keeping the foal for 4 years, all the associated vets fees, gelding costs, farrier costs, hay, feed and the breeders time to care for all of them So say £2k if you do it on the cheap. Then breaking of small ponies is a specialist job and most good riders who are small enough for 12hh ponies charge around £250 a week for breaking and you need a minimum of 8 weeks.
very easily rack up £5k in costs for a 4yr old just broken pony
Just as a comparison, currently you will be lucky to get £1000 for a just backed section A,
I know quite a few small welshies who have sold for tiny amounts of money as youngstock and gone on to win big prizes in all spheres. for example one was £250 as a 2 year old, won his ridden class at the royal welsh as an 8yr old. others sold for £50 through beeston market who have gone on to national junior teams.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
If true costings are done, and the animal is correctly cared for and started, then probably yes.
teddypops
Well-Known Member
It is different though because those lambs are bred for meat. These colts have been sent for slaughter because the breeder didn’t want colts and there wasn’t a market for them.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Morally no different.
TPO
Well-Known Member
The colts and lambs wont know a difference?
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
My old ewes, spent ewes, prolapse ewes, bad mothers, spent rams all go to slaughter too. Basically anything that isnt paying its way. Thats farming.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
So if a horse breeder turned around and said, my business model is to produce 20 foals a year. I will retain the top 20% for my own breeding program, to continue improving the breed. From the remaining 80% any that have medical issues or temperament issues that make them likely unsuitable for a private market will go as zoo fodder. The remaining animals will be offered for sale to the private market but if unsold will be zoo fodder.
Zoo animals need to eat too.
So how is that significantly different to rearing lambs?
Just playing devils advocate by the way.
teddypops
Well-Known Member
no, you’re right, but those colts could have been gelded and re advertised and more likely sold. Not sure what else you can do with lambs.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
breeder wouldnt even get the cost of the gelding back for them.
teddypops
Well-Known Member
Polos Mum
Well-Known Member
I am sure it is much more expensive vs. chucking stallion in field of mares - but if it's compared to owning / feeding a mare for 9 months, then covering vets bills for foaling, then feeding / worming / feet etc. for both mare and foal for another 4-5 months to then get £100 back as meat money - not to mention all the time and effort, is it really that much more expensive?
I've no idea - but rather than just saying "it's how it's always been done so tough" maybe they could look for more creative alternatives?
If they are a nice well intentioned stud then creative alternatives might be a better option than having to do something I am sure nobody would relish. Even the most heartless would be pained to get £100 for 13 months effort and at least that in feed / wormers.
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teddypops
Well-Known Member
Do you think they have made money sending them to slaughter?
TPO
Well-Known Member
They *could* have been but thays another outlay for the breeder on horses that already havent sold. Then what if there is still no interest in them?
I get what you're saying and a good breeder should have a contingency plan like gelding and running on. However this year has done a grand job of scuppering most plans...
I've no idea the quality of these colts, perhaps they weren't that great so gelding wouldnt increase interest in them.
I guess taking them direct to slaughter was this breeders back up plan.
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
You rarely make money in that scenario but if you keep them, even for a week you're sat on a potential vet bill. Better to cut your losses and knock them on the head and put something back in the pot, especially in this climate and this time of year.
TPO
Well-Known Member
They wouldnt have made a profit but they would have made some money rather than outlay more on gelding and running on (to have them not sell privately or go for meat through the ring next year)