Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

[Elf On A Shelf]

Good

So you condone bullying? And witch hunting?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

So it’s better for them to be born before killing them?

One of my mares has had 2 abortions - self impossed. One at just over 3 months due to infection and you couldn't tell what sex or colour the foal would have been. The other was 9 months. It was a chestnut filly. No reason for this abortion other than the mares body clearly doesn't agree with being in foal (7 years apart btw so not rushed back into foal and no other pregnancies) I damn near lost the mare. I could not have had her scanned for sex as she is a Shetland and far too small for an internal scan. As are most small native ponies. So scanning for sex is not a viable option not is aborting them.

Plus by aborting early just because they are male is stupid. The foal could be the next super star but you would never know if it were never born.

If these foals were of top notch quality they would have been run on to either be stud stallions or show ponies.

 

[teddypops]

Plus by aborting early just because they are male is stupid. The foal could be the next super star but you would never know if it were never born.

If these foals were of top notch quality they would have been run on to either be stud stallions or show ponies.

So it’s acceptable to overbreed just in case you get a good one? (That’s what the breeders of all the dumped coloured cobs do). I will never agree that that is ok. Maybe they should be more picky as to what the breed, instead of breeding for the sake of it then.

 

[TheMule]

We have no idea the full reason these weanlings ended up there. On the continent it's totally accepted that the bottom % of whatever you breed will go to the abattoir. The ones with wonky limbs which didn’t come right with some intervention, the ones with big overbites, the ones with a retained testicle that requires either running on or an expensive operation and countless other reasons, including just not being quality enough to fit the reputation of what you sell. Breeding is a lottery.
People can not sit behind their screens and say 'but why not give it away, my sister's friend's cousin would have had it' because that's how ponies fall into hard times.

FWIW I'm at that abattoir reasonably regularly but don’t often see weanlings. I haven’t been since Covid so perhaps things have changed.

 

[teddypops]

Yes, in the short. You are talking about putting horses through the stress and trauma of abortions, by the time an equine foetus can be sexed it will be quite large and the chemicals used to abort are dangerous. Abortions are traumatic, birthing and raising a young animal is nature. People are only upset by this as they didn’t go to the sales first.

Thousands of animals are born, raised and sent to the slaughter house to enter the food chain every year.

Are they? I’m more inclined to think they are upset because they haven’t been given a chance in life. There is no overbreeding in farming animals for meat though. Unlike in horse breeding.

 

[mariew]

There is no overbreeding in farming animals for meat though. Unlike in horse breeding.

I would disagree, people want cheap meat, displayed by £3 chickens everywhere and it's much harder to find better welfare chickens that cost more. Mass breeding must happen for economies of scale, then people end up buying too much and throw food away. I would say this is over breeding, but of course more acceptable as animals are destined for slaughter therefore not needed to be sold on and left somewhere to be passed around homes.

 

[shortstuff99]

Are they? I’m more inclined to think they are upset because they haven’t been given a chance in life. There is no overbreeding in farming animals for meat though. Unlike in horse breeding.

There sure is in the dairy and egg industry, all the males are killed pretty immediately.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

I've not read all the comments, and I can't face watching the video, but I just wanted to ask- is this in this country at least? Do horses/ponies still have to be exported live to abbatoirs in Europe, or is that at least illegal these days?

 

[teddypops]

There sure is in the dairy and egg industry, all the males are killed pretty immediately.

Of course, I didn’t think of that, I was thinking of the animals that farmers breed and raise for meat.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I've not read all the comments, and I can't face watching the video, but I just wanted to ask- is this in this country at least? Do horses/ponies still have to be exported live to abbatoirs in Europe, or is that at least illegal these days?

You can export them or there are a small handful of abattoirs here that will do horses for the zoo trade and sell the carcass not for human consumption.

 

[TheMule]

I've not read all the comments, and I can't face watching the video, but I just wanted to ask- is this in this country at least? Do horses/ponies still have to be exported live to abbatoirs in Europe, or is that at least illegal these days?

Live export for slaughter is not illegal. But yes, this abattoir is in England. Sadly it's the only one in the UK licensed to slaughter for human consumption so horses can still be transported long distances- lorry loads comes over from Ireland for example.

 

[Berpisc]

I remember in the early 90's I think, there was a problem with the bottom end of the horse market, horses were not getting taken for slaughter. In my area quite a few ponies got dumped or chucked in the drains north of Doncaster. I know this is only anectotal, and I agree that breeding numbers need to be watched (it might surprise some people but not all breeders are heartless moneygrabbers); there has long been a debate about breeding numbers after all.
Sorry bit of a ramble, but abbatoirs do serve a purpose, when these mares were put in foal the current situation didn't exist.
I am also not going to condone hate and witch hunting; its serves no logical purpose.

 

[ycbm]

My understanding is that the only difference this year from any other year is that these surplus foals were taken direct to the abattoir in an identifiable vehicle instead of going through the sales and then on to the abattoir, a double journey and a much more stressful experience in the middle.

I've thought this one through overnight and I've come to the conclusion that there's a very big difference between breeding animals for meat and breeding them to sell as pets, which is effectively what ponies are these days. The idea of deliberately breeding more than you know there is a market for, fully intending the surplus to be shot, either after going to the sales or direct to the abattoir, feels wrong.
.

 

[luckyoldme]

Aren't we just a crap species.?
These animals are bred with the ultimate intention of finding one which is perfect (according to our criteria)
Basicly those young horses have to be slaughtered because they dont make the grade and havent found a new home.
Its not something I would want on my conscience.

 

[sharni]

brilliant post

 

[sharni]

people seem to think its ok to send these colts to slaughter. it isnt ok .others dumping them or whatever doesnt condone the action. 2 wrongs dont make a right. the colts should have been kept by the stud gelded and raised until a suitable buyer is found even if its 3 or 4 years hense. it is not ok to dispose of unwanted stock in anyway the breeder should take responsibility and keep the animals and breed fewer if the market isnt there.

 

[SO1]

Having done a quick Google on the stud. Looks like it was a mother and daughter run stud but the mother passed away in February.

If this is not normal activity for the stud I wonder if the mother passing away has put pressure on the stud and they were not able to run the ponies on over the winter or care for them in the normal way.

It was bad publicity for the stud but if they are farmers then this business model for livestock is probably standard.

There was an issue with a Dartmoor stud and welfare when someone had more ponies than they were able to care for properly. It is a very difficult situation if you can't sell and find yourself in a situation when you have more ponies you can care for what do you do?

 

[Polos Mum]

One of the rare breeds (Suffolk punch I think) have been using sex sorted sperm to only have filly's born. It's really easy to do - because male sperm are lighter with Y chromosome being so much smaller than X - so you just spin them and gravity does the rest.

There are (relatively) cheap and easy options to have mares only.
Late abortion isn't a good option but sex sorted sperm is definitely - maybe the cost of the vet doing that is cheaper than caring for a foal for 4/5 months then shooting it?

 

[Frumpoon]

So you condone bullying? And witch hunting?

I do, yes

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

Live export for slaughter is not illegal. But yes, this abattoir is in England. Sadly it's the only one in the UK licensed to slaughter for human consumption so horses can still be transported long distances- lorry loads comes over from Ireland for example.

I don't particularly have a huge issue with ponies going to an abbatoir (I don't eat meat anyway, but the idea of ponies going to slaughter doesn't sit any worse with me that cows or sheep) But it's awful to imagine them having to do that hideous journey. And I don't know too much about it, but from what I've heard, they're not transported in luxury.....

 

[AmyMay]

Just seen the footage. Not that it matters, but what stunning animals, and what a terrible, terrible waste ?

Although surprised (and thankful ) to only see three - I was expecting many more.

 

[HashRouge]

Aren't we just a crap species.?
These animals are bred with the ultimate intention of finding one which is perfect (according to our criteria)
Basicly those young horses have to be slaughtered because they dont make the grade and havent found a new home.
Its not something I would want on my conscience.

Great Post!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

There was an issue with a Dartmoor stud and welfare when someone had more ponies than they were able to care for properly. It is a very difficult situation if you can't sell and find yourself in a situation when you have more ponies you can care for what do you do?

The Pumphill stud - David Hinde. And it wasn't just ponies it was hundreds of dogs and some cats as well. And through it all he protested his innocence and that there was nothing wrong with the ponies despite many being emaciated and living amongst their dead relatives. He still, to this day believes he has done nothing wrong and keeps getting morr animald despite being banned from keeping them.

What he did to those animals was a fate far worse than death.

 

[TPO]

Funny how people only want to "rescue" horses when it's too late. If people "would have taken the ponies if only I'd known" then why arent they BUYING them, as the abattoir would have, to "save" them from that fate. I'll bet there are still quite a few wee colts looking for homes. Or why arent they rehoming from a rescue if they have the space, time and money?

It certainly appears that a side of drama makes horses a lot more desirable in the moment...

Going to the slaughterhouse isnt a good outcome in many ways but it's a better outcome than lots of other ways.

Never mind all the meat farming comparisons, if you eat any forms of dairy at all (& it's in a lot of things) you're the cause of this happening on a massive scale. People in glass houses and all that.

Maybe instead of lashing out, hounding and bullying a breeder some self reflection would be of use and to take the time to find out more about the real issues.

 

[scats]

I’m surprised how many people on social media have no idea that this happens regularly, except the ponies usually go through the sales and then on to the abattoir rather than the stud delivering them.

I bet a lot of the people outraged about this have no problem splashing milk in their coffee or enjoying their Sunday roast lamb...

 

[southerncomfort]

I have answered. If they were mine I’d turn them all out in a field for the winter with forage and try again in the Spring.
I might even speculate to accumulate and have them gelded before sale. I’d also think very carefully about how many ponies I could breed and sell each year so there wasn’t this wastage.

I am friends with someone who breeds section A's. She never breeds anything she couldn't afford to keep should it not sell.

As above, anything that doesn't sell goes out for the winter. Come the spring any colts that aren't stallion material are gelded and they try and get them out to a few shows to make them a more attractive buy.

Again anything that doesn't sell they keep. And if numbers are too high then the mares stay empty.

Breeding ponies that you know their is no market for, then sending them to slaughter is unethical and indefensible in my view.

 

[TPO]

I agree that continuing to over breed is a form of negligence but it was "only" 3 colts.

I am not being flippant, it would have been far preferable for breeder to get a fair price and these horses end up in fantastic forever homes but given everything that 2020 has thrown at the world to have "only" 3 unsold horses delivered direct to the abattoir, missing out the stress of the sales ring, seems preferable.

I havent seen the video, nor do I want to, but I was thinking the breeder was offloading lots of uncared for horses. 3 colts in good nick knowing where they've ended up is a much better option than many of the fates that thousands of horses are living with

 

[tristar]

a lot of welsh are bred for inhand showing etc on the studs, they are overbred and have been for as long as i can remember, they have no intentions of keeping them or rearing and training all of them

years ago the markets were full of bewildered unhandled foals carted around the country, we used to buy and even bred from some of them, they made fantastic riding ponies some had very good breeding one was by a very good arab, i kept him as a licenced part bred arab stallion, and knew him all his long life

 

[Hallo2012]

One of the rare breeds (Suffolk punch I think) have been using sex sorted sperm to only have filly's born. It's really easy to do - because male sperm are lighter with Y chromosome being so much smaller than X - so you just spin them and gravity does the rest.

There are (relatively) cheap and easy options to have mares only.
Late abortion isn't a good option but sex sorted sperm is definitely - maybe the cost of the vet doing that is cheaper than caring for a foal for 4/5 months then shooting it?

its not.

sexed sperm and AI is incredibly expensive compared to letting a stallion run with 20 mares and nature do its job.......no large scale small pony breeders cover by AI.

as a small pony stallion owner i am always asked for natural in hand or field covering as its cheaper ( i refuse, mine is AI only to proven mares but i am a one stallion owner and he is firstly my ridden pony and not a money making machine)

 

[ihatework]

Some people really do have their heads stuck in the sand don’t they?

I don’t think any animal lover, whether you support the studs actions or don’t, wouldn’t feel that sad heavy heart at the video. Lovely little weanlings, cute as anything, happy healthy and alert going to slaughter. Such a waste. But any small consolation is that they look really well cared for and I imagine their short time on this planet was pretty good.

But whoever said any meat eaters on this thread would be hypocrites to aggressively condone the studs actions are completely right. These colts are small fry compared to the culling and conditions many intensively farmed animals endure on a daily basis.

Sexed semen is unlikely to be a viable option for this type of stud. It’s not that cheap to do and also relies on AI. That would make a pregnancy start at around 1K per animal, rather than a natural covering

Finally to decimate a small stud who are probably only doing what is the most ethical thing for the animal at this point in time is despicable.

Bunny huggers I suggest you go and buy a nice big field and go pay pennies for the hundreds of overbred stock going for meat. Sprinkle them all in rainbow dust, bring in the trainers and churn out gold plated riding ponies.

Breeders, well actually there is a message here. If you are continually so overstocked that you have to send to abattoir, please rethink what you are doing. It not ok long term.