Feeding advice & opinions for TB!?

[Ched9310]

Hi All,

I’m currently feeding a new tb Speedibeet, mollichaf & Ease & Excel cubes.

Looking to change the chaff as mollichaf isn’t ideal, I’m thinking molasses free hifi? I was going to try the Alfa a oil, but heard a lot of horses don’t get on with it.

I’m also thinking about changing Speedibeet to Soothe & Gain? Would you feed Soothe & Gain along side Ease & Excel cubes?

He’ll also be on some micronised linseed & Bluechip calming balancer.

He needs a bit of weight put on but he’s not mega skinny, we need to do a lot to build top line but don’t want anything fizzy.

Any advice or opinions would be great?

 

[nikkimariet]

Scrap the blue chip, lots of fillers. Feed more linseed or add in something like rolled oats for weight gain and bloom.

Readigrass instead of Alfa?

Swap the beet for fibre cubes, saracens have put a lot of weight on Fig who is restricted diet wise post lami but he’s always been a terrible poor doer.

A complete feed is better than the cubes which don’t have much calorie wise and little oil. What about Releve if gets on ok with flaked peas? Or equilibrium as a mixed complete feed that has Alfa in it too so you wouldn’t need to feed a separate chaff?

Fig is on readigrass, linseed and fibre cubes with oats for weight and bloom and a handful of havens slobbermash as it’s college and gives him all his V&M.

 

[Griffin]

Our elderly TB really well this winter eating Bailey's conditioning cubes and Dengie Healthy Tummy fed at the recommended rates.

I usually prefer balancers with grass chaff and you can then add micronised linseed as needed but I have been really impressed with how well the conditioning cubes have put weight on.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

I second Dengie, I find Mollichaff won't give them enough to put on weight, that stuff is cheap and tacky and better for do-gooders who don't need to put on their weight. Needless to say I give this to my New Forest x Welsh pony merely to keep her happy whislt I feed my Partbred Arab x TB with Allen & Page Calm and Condition and Dengie Alfa-A Molasses Free. Apparently some horses have issues with alfalfa but I read this is more myth than it is the truth. Needless to say mine is fine with it. Soothe and Gain is also a good alternative to Calm and Condition, which you've already mentioned. Definetely ditch the beet, or make it a morning feed and give them the Soothe and Gain in the evening as extra bulk, though really you shouldn't need that this time of year, perhapas in Winter, which is what I do with the beet. You could try other Dengie products, as suggested above, should you find your horse doesn't agree with alfalfa.
I couldn't recommend the Ease & Excell cubes unless you are hard-working as this could possibly make him fizzy if you're not burning off that energy he'll be getting as this is what they're meant for.

Can I ask is his weight really that bad at the moment? is there any particular reason why he needs to put any on? I mean we have just come out of Winter so he will be slightly underweight and possibly showing a bit of rib, this is quite natural and Spring/Summer grazing should put most of his weight back on in-which you can work on the rest during Autumn and part through Winter should he need it. In my opinion, if his weight is merely 20% lower than what it should be I wouldn't worry too much, even at 30% could be considered ok, though you'd probably be better asking a vet or nutritionist about that. Definately shouldn't be 40% under normal weight though for sure. Needless to say that would be considered too underweight. Also try not to go overboard and make him overweight either. You don't want him ending up with Laminitis come Autumn due to being overweight whilst eating all that Spring grass.

However if you are thinking of changing feed please bare in mind you must do so gradually. To transition safely I recommend changing every other day 20% of their feed. So ie Monday give them 100% usual feed, Tuesday 80% usual feed, 20% new feed, Wednesday 80/20, Thursday 60/40, Friday 60/40, Saturday 40/60, Sunday 40/60, or you could even drop to 20/80 by Sunday and have them 100% on the new feed the following Monday.

 

[Ched9310]

I second Dengie, I find Mollichaff won't give them enough to put on weight, that stuff is cheap and tacky and better for do-gooders who don't need to put on their weight. Needless to say I give this to my New Forest x Welsh pony merely to keep her happy whislt I feed my Partbred Arab x TB with Allen & Page Calm and Condition and Dengie Alfa-A Molasses Free. Apparently some horses have issues with alfalfa but I read this is more myth than it is the truth. Needless to say mine is fine with it. Soothe and Gain is also a good alternative to Calm and Condition, which you've already mentioned. Definetely ditch the beet, or make it a morning feed and give them the Soothe and Gain in the evening as extra bulk, though really you shouldn't need that this time of year, perhapas in Winter, which is what I do with the beet. You could try other Dengie products, as suggested above, should you find your horse doesn't agree with alfalfa.
I couldn't recommend the Ease & Excell cubes unless you are hard-working as this could possibly make him fizzy if you're not burning off that energy he'll be getting as this is what they're meant for.

Can I ask is his weight really that bad at the moment? is there any particular reason why he needs to put any on? I mean we have just come out of Winter so he will be slightly underweight and possibly showing a bit of rib, this is quite natural and Spring/Summer grazing should put most of his weight back on in-which you can work on the rest during Autumn and part through Winter should he need it. In my opinion, if his weight is merely 20% lower than what it should be I wouldn't worry too much, even at 30% could be considered ok, though you'd probably be better asking a vet or nutritionist about that. Definately shouldn't be 40% under normal weight though for sure. Needless to say that would be considered too underweight. Also try not to go overboard and make him overweight either. You don't want him ending up with Laminitis come Autumn due to being overweight whilst eating all that Spring grass.

However if you are thinking of changing feed please bare in mind you must do so gradually. To transition safely I recommend changing every other day 20% of their feed. So ie Monday give them 100% usual feed, Tuesday 80% usual feed, 20% new feed, Wednesday 80/20, Thursday 60/40, Friday 60/40, Saturday 40/60, Sunday 40/60, or you could even drop to 20/80 by Sunday and have them 100% on the new feed the following Monday.

Thanks for your reply, really informative & given me food for thought.

I would say maybe 20% underweight & overall condition needs improving, but by no means a welfare case.

As I haven’t had him long I just want to get his diet right & start working him, which I know will help condition/top line etc. But as you said & I agree mollichaff isn’t great & I’m not overly keen on Speedibeet.

Think I’ll grab the molasses free hifi & eventually move onto the soothe & gain, maybe use the ease & excel cubes sparingly until in more work!

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Thanks for your reply, really informative & given me food for thought.

I would say maybe 20% underweight & overall condition needs improving, but by no means a welfare case.

As I haven’t had him long I just want to get his diet right & start working him, which I know will help condition/top line etc. But as you said & I agree mollichaff isn’t great & I’m not overly keen on Speedibeet.

Think I’ll grab the molasses free hifi & eventually move onto the soothe & gain, maybe use the ease & excel cubes sparingly until in more work!

np. As an experienced horseman and partbred TB owner myself of course I've strived to educate myself on such things. I am against the idea of hifi or excel cubes unless you are doing heavy work which normally involves competition and if what you say is true about his condition this perhaps isn't in his best interest right now. How old is he by the way? When you say condition needs improving where would you score him on a body chart? Please also bare in mind that Thoroughbreds do tend to show a little bit of rib as that is due to their lightweight breed and not to be compared with a medium or heavy horse such as Appaloosa, Clydesdale, Drafts, etc. Certainly do not compare with cobs or gypsy vanners. It's pretty much like comparing a whippet to an alsation or bulldog lol. So if your horse looks 2/5 which I'd consider moderate don't worry about it. Infact, could you share some pictures of him too?

 

[Ched9310]

np. As an experienced horseman and partbred TB owner myself of course I've strived to educate myself on such things. I am against the idea of hifi or excel cubes unless you are doing heavy work which normally involves competition and if what you say is true about his condition this perhaps isn't in his best interest right now. How old is he by the way? When you say condition needs improving where would you score him on a body chart? Please also bare in mind that Thoroughbreds do tend to show a little bit of rib as that is due to their lightweight breed and not to be compared with a medium or heavy horse such as Appaloosa, Clydesdale, Drafts, etc. Certainly do not compare with cobs or gypsy vanners. It's pretty much like comparing a whippet to an alsation or bulldog lol. So if your horse looks 2/5 which I'd consider moderate don't worry about it. Infact, could you share some pictures of him too?

He’s 11 this month, I’ve had him for 3 weeks & he’s definitely looking better than he was when the yard owner brought him back in Jan.

I’ve spent hours now researching feeds & looking up forums, it’s such a mind field & why works for some obviously won’t work for others!

I’d just like to get him on a good feed regime, he isn’t in a lot of work at the moment (only just had the saddle fitter out) just hacking/lunging & hopefully schooling in the field (not ideal but we don’t have a school!) We need to do some hill work, poles etc to build top line.

I’ll attach a couple of pictures.

 

[milliepops]

My skinny TB did well on Ease & Excel though I fed him the mix instead of the cubes, the formulation is similar. fed at the recommended amounts it is generally non heating and also supplies all your vits and mins so you don't need to add a balancer as well. it also contains a probiotic so they get the most from their feed and forage. So does Soothe & Gain.so I would pick one of those and then a chaff of your choice if you need one. Mine eats so slowly I don't bother. He eats plenty of hay so gets his fibre that way.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Ok yeah, you're right, he's looking rather lean there. When I said a bit of rib showing I didn't mean that much eheh.. I'm also concerned about how his hind quarters look and whithers. Really glad you posted here. Thanks for your honesty and it's good that you are seaking help. I know how difficult it can be to keep these kind of horses so rest assured I am not judging you here, as most shouldn't be anyway and if they do well then shows how much they know and at least you are requesting that help and guidance. Anyway.. my advice here would definately be the Calm and Condition or Soothe and Gain, I personally go for Calm and Condition as the fatty oils and fibre is slightly more but in all honesty? not really that much difference between them. I'd still lay off hifi and the cubes for now and just focus on the feed. You are right, finding the right feed can be very difficult. I too have gone through similar problems but I swear by A&P as it helped even my severely underweight pony, who was near brink of death I might add. This was all thanks to her gypsy breeder, but I digress. Which is why I could not recommend it enough. However, as you said, not all feeds work for every horse, though alot of people do recommend this brand for obvious reason; it works for most of ours. Unfortunately it is mostly about trial and error and doing plenty of research. I would also recommend giving Allen & Page, and perhaps a couple of others, a call and ask for their nutritionist for advice too. I personally find Dobson's nutritionists most helpful and they do not descriminate just because you don't use their own brands unlike others.

Do not give him any medium or hard work in his current condition. This means no hill work or poles. Despite you mentioning this is something you feel a need to I don't think this is a very good idea in his current state. Light hacking is ok but really? and I'm going to be bluntly honest here for his own good as well as yours.. I think he could do with some time off. If I were to score him I'd give him a 1/5 to be honest with you. You really want to be 2/5 or as I'd put it more 2.5 which is considered moderately good and this I barely consider moderate to being underweight. More like 1.5. Have you got or can you provide a more full on side view of him?

Maybe you could consider resuming work with him in Summer once he's looking better and ready for it. You could probably just once or twice a week go for a light hack or lunge to keep his muscles working and in the best form he can be if that's what you want. I just honestly feel medium or heavy work is not going to help at this moment in time and he certainly doesn't look ideal for that level of work at this moment in time either. But that's my two cense on it.

Again, not judging here, just giving you my honest view on your horse's condition and providing the best advice I can at this point.

How is his turn out? is he out 24/7? rugged? what weight is his rug? how long does he wear it? Sorry for asking so many questions but all this reflects on his condition and wellbeing really.

 

[ycbm]

He’s 11 this month, I’ve had him for 3 weeks & he’s definitely looking better than he was when the yard owner brought him back in Jan.

I’ve spent hours now researching feeds & looking up forums, it’s such a mind field & why works for some obviously won’t work for others!

I’d just like to get him on a good feed regime, he isn’t in a lot of work at the moment (only just had the saddle fitter out) just hacking/lunging & hopefully schooling in the field (not ideal but we don’t have a school!) We need to do some hill work, poles etc to build top line.

I’ll attach a couple of pictures.

He's very like mine was to look at, but thinner. I found out almost by accident that he didn't tolerate soya and once I removed all soya from his diet he was much easier to keep weight on.
.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Also, does he have shelter if he is turned out? what is the grass condition like? poor, moderate, good, very good? Same with hay, do you feed him any? if so what quality and how much in kilos?

 

[Ched9310]

Ok yeah, you're right, he's looking rather lean there. When I said a bit of rib showing I didn't mean that much eheh.. I'm also concerned about how his hind quarters look and whithers. Really glad you posted here. Thanks for your honesty and it's good that you are seaking help. I know how difficult it can be to keep these kind of horses so rest assured I am not judging you here, as most shouldn't be anyway and if they do well then shows how much they know and at least you are requesting that help and guidance. Anyway.. my advice here would definately be the Calm and Condition or Soothe and Gain, I personalyl go for Calm and Condition as the fatty oils and fibre is slightly more but in all honesty? not really that much difference between them. I'd still lay off hifi and the cubes for now and just focus on the feed. You are right, finding the right feed can be very difficult. I too have gone through similar problems but I swear by A&P as it helped even my severely underweight pony, who was near brink of death I might add. This was all thanks to her gypsy breeder, but I digress. Which is why I couldn't not recommend it enough. However, as you said, not all feeds work for every horse, though alot of people do recommend this brand for obvious reason; it works for most of ours. Unfortunately it is mostly about trial and error and doing plenty of research. I would also recommend giving Allen & Page, and perhaps a couple of others, a call and ask for their nutritionist for advice too. I personally find Dobson's nutritionists most helpful and they do not descriminate just because you don't use their own brands unlike others.

Do not give him any medium or hard work in his current condition. This means no hill work or poles. Despite you mentioning this is something you feel a need to I don't think this is a very good idea in his current state. Light hacking is ok but really? and I'm going to be bluntly honest here for his own good as well as yours.. I think he could do with some time off. If I were to score him I'd give him a 1/5 to be honest with you. You really want to be 2/5 or as I'd put it more 2.5 which is considered moderately good and this I barely consider moderate to being underweight. More like 1.5. Have you got or can you provide a more full on side view of him?

Maybe you could consider resuming work with him in Summer once he's looking better and ready for it. You could probably just once or twice a week go for a light hack or lunge to keep his muscles working and in the best form he can be if that's what you want. I just honestly feel medium or heavy work is not going to help at this moment in time and he certainly doesn't look ideal for that level of work at this moment in time either. But that's my two cense on it.

Again, not judging here, just giving you my honest view on your horse's condition and providing the best advice I can at this point.

How is his turn out? is he out 24/7? rugged? what weight is his rug? how long does he wear it? Sorry for asking so many questions but all this reflects on his condition and wellbeing really.

The two pictures without tack were 3 weeks ago & the one with take was this week. I have to be honest I didn’t think he was in as bad as condition as you seem to?

He’s currently turned out 24/7 & is happy with that, has trees for shelter but we’re West Midlands so the weather generally isn’t terrible (this time of year). He does have a stable which I will use when needed in winter months. 5 degrees below he’s in a 250g with neck, 5-10 degrees 100g with neck of windy/rainy or without neck if just a little chilly.

He has hay in the morning & night (not sure on kg?) but prefers the grass at the moment! The spring grass is coming through, but there really isn’t that much. Enough that he’s not always bothered by the hay though!

He’s been seen by physio & saddle fitter & they had no concerns regarding light ridden work. But we’re really only doing 30 mins hacks, mostly walking & 15 mins lunging, again mostly walking as he currently tries to rush everywhere.

Thanks

 

[Ched9310]

This was also from this week

 

[milliepops]

the work he is doing sounds fine, if physio and saddle fitter have signed him off in person then they are better placed than some randoms on the internet with a few photos from not-perfect angles lunging can be hard on a weak body but the hacking will be perfect.
Mine would rather be out eating the spring grass all day, it's definitely growing here.

eta last photo looks OK to me given what you've described, he looks like a slightly poor horse that is not in consistent work. I think you'll turn him around quite easily. teeth checked recently?

 

[ycbm]

He is thin but it really isn't an issue at this time of year as long as under feeding was the reason. If he doesn't put on weight pretty quickly with spring grass, I would be trying to find out why.

PS you are new to the forum, it can be helpful to check out people's other posts before you put too much store by any one poster's opinion.
.

 

[Ched9310]

He's very like mine was to look at, but thinner. I found out almost by accident that he didn't tolerate soya and once I removed all soya from his diet he was much easier to keep weight on.
.

Ah will look into this also! Thanks

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Yeah.. I actually thought he looked better in the pic with tack on but tbh the tack made it hard to see. Anyway.. The last pic you provided definately shows improvement, even by a margin so that's good at least. I'd say more of a 2/5 there, or there abouts but still needs a bit of work. Perhaps another 3 weeks or so. Maybe once been on Allen & Page for at least a month you should defintely see sign of improvement I reckon. Definitely ditch that chaff too and consider Dengie for the forage feed.

Good weight and way of thinking on the rugs. I personally use a 300gram fill with detachable neck myself. I also use a 200gram fill standard/no neck and a no fill/lightweight. But yeah, anyway, either way you seem to have the right idea there

Ideally you want him on 4% of his bodyweight in hay. for a 350kg horse that would of course be 14kg per day which is about 2/3rds of a convential bale or about two haynets assuming you have one that holds 8kg as most do, 2kg extra won't hurt to get him at his ideal weight but you want to reduce the intake as slow and steady is best way to feed. No surprise he's preferring grass as most do this time of year, even my own are turning away from their usual Winter hay ration and grazing on Spring grass already. Bit too early to come off it yet though in my opinion. Need to wean them off it at least to be on the safe side which can take a while. Normally I don't completely stop hay til end of April or May depending on how good the grass grew during early Spring. So yeah, if he's happy enough to graze and still got enough hay left over then this is most likely evidence that he's getting enough there. I too give mine hay in morning and hay in evening. I was giving them hay in the afternoon but they take most of the day eating their morning ration and as I said they seem to be turning away from it at the moment and going back to it later on.

And yes, considering you said "light ridden work" I'm inclined to agree, this is exactly what I said. However I do not consider hills and poles to be light work, more like moderate to heavy depending on how high th ose poles are and how steep those hills may be. Frankly I'd be sticking to flat ground and no jumping for a little while. Assuming jumping is what you meant by poles? Though even weaving in and out can be taxing on them depending on the space beween, how fast it's done, how many they are and for how long they are doing it.

 

[Ched9310]

the work he is doing sounds fine, if physio and saddle fitter have signed him off in person then they are better placed than some randoms on the internet with a few photos from not-perfect angles lunging can be hard on a weak body but the hacking will be perfect.
Mine would rather be out eating the spring grass all day, it's definitely growing here.

eta last photo looks OK to me given what you've described, he looks like a slightly poor horse that is not in consistent work. I think you'll turn him around quite easily. teeth checked recently?

Thanks for replying ?

Yea I think he needs some weight putting on him but also needs (slow & steady) work to build top line & improve overall condition.

Yea teeth were done 4-6 weeks ago, same time as physio. Saddle fitter out this week.

Typical ex racer/tb not had a consistent home, the lady that runs the yard brought him in Jan & I brought him 3 weeks ago, so also hoping some TLC will make a big difference over the next 3 months, hence why I really want to get a decent feeding regime in place

 

[Ched9310]

Yeah.. I actually thought he looked better in the pic with tack on but tbh the tack made it hard to see. Anyway.. The last pic you provided definately shows improvement, even by a margin so that's good at least. I'd say more of a 2/5 there, or there abouts but still needs a bit of work. Perhaps another 3 weeks or so. Maybe once been on Allen & Page for at least a month you should defintely see sign of improvement I reckon. Definitely ditch that chaff too and consider Dengie for the forage feed.

Good weight and way of thinking on the rugs. I personally use a 300gram fill with detachable neck myself. I also use a 200gram fill standard/no neck and a no fill/lightweight. But yeah, anyway, either way you seem to have the right idea there

Ideally you want him on 4% of his bodyweight in hay. for a 350kg horse that would of course be 14kg per day which is about 2/3rds of a convential bale or about two haynets assuming you have one that holds 8kg as most do, 2kg extra won't hurt to get him at his ideal weight but you want to reduce the intake as slow and steady is best way to feed. No surprise he's preferring grass as most do this time of year, even my own are turning away from their usual Winter hay ration and grazing on Spring grass already. Bit too early to come off it yet though in my opinion. Need to wean them off it at least to be on the safe side which can take a while. Normally I don't complete stop hay til end of May or April depending on how good the grass grew during early Spring. So yeah, if he's happy enough to graze and still got enough hay left over then this is most likely evidence that he's getting enough there. I too give mine hay in morning and hay in evening. I was giving them hay in the afternoon but they take most of the day eating their morning ration and as I said they seem to be turning away from it at the moment and going back to it later on.

And yes, considering you said "light ridden work" I'm inclined to agree, this is exactly what I said. However I do not consider hills and poles to be light work, more like moderate to heavy depending on how high th ose poles are and how steep those hills may be. Frankly I'd be sticking to flat ground and no jumping for a little while. Assuming jumping is what you meant by poles? Though even weaving in and out can be taxing on them depending on the space beween, how fast it's done, how many they are and for how long they are doing it.

Hi,

I was thinking more trotting poles (not raised polls) I may just stick to the light hacking & occasional lunging for the next month whilst sorting his feed out.

I don’t want to do too much but also don’t want to do too little, again finding the right balance ?

Hopefully I’ll have some good before & after pictures in a few months

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Hi,

I was thinking more trotting poles (not raised polls) I may just stick to the light hacking & occasional lunging for the next month whilst sorting his feed out.

I don’t want to do too much but also don’t want to do too little, again finding the right balance ?

Hopefully I’ll have some good before & after pictures in a few months

Well I'm glad I could help put you on the right track, so to speak lol. I look forward to the results. Keep me posted.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

He’s 11 this month, I’ve had him for 3 weeks & he’s definitely looking better than he was when the yard owner brought him back in Jan.

I’ve spent hours now researching feeds & looking up forums, it’s such a mind field & why works for some obviously won’t work for others!

I’d just like to get him on a good feed regime, he isn’t in a lot of work at the moment (only just had the saddle fitter out) just hacking/lunging & hopefully schooling in the field (not ideal but we don’t have a school!) We need to do some hill work, poles etc to build top line.

I’ll attach a couple of pictures.

His a bit thin but I think he will look totally different at the end of the summer it's amazing what spring grass can do, looking at the picture of him tied to the box he looks like he has a bit of muscle wastage behind the shoulder under the wither, I assume from a badly fitting saddle so once he is able to work correctly that will also make him look so much better, I would imagine you need a bit of a remedial saddle fit at the moment until it improves and the muscle starts to come back.

 

[The Jokers Girl]

For a tb coming out of winter that doesn't look to be particularly fit I wouldn't be worrying about his weight just yet. Spring has been a slow burner this year so grass isn't flushing right now, which it has done in previous years.
Admittedly it has been a while since I've had tbs, I now have a Welsh cob with EMS, so at opposite endiof the spectrum, but I would pile him with good quality adlib hay and a really good vit/min supplement along with some conditoning mashes, maybe some equijewel and some chop (I wouldn't worry about looking for light/low calorie chops such as the mollases free ranges either as you are not looking at keeping his weight down right now).
Once the weather sorts itself out and the grass starts growing as long as there is nothing underlying he'll put weight on.
I also agree with the poster higher up.
Please review posting history of people on this thread.
Best of luck with your horse, he looks sweet and kind.

ETA the tb at work that has just arrived and living out is looking poor as it was a harsh winter.
I'm taking her a ton sack of hay/haylage mix twice a day and she is getting 3 feeds a day of alfa a oil, conditioning cubes, vit min supplement, sugar beet and oats. She isn't hyper on that and is starting to get a good all over covering now and as soon as we get some grass feeds and hay will start to be reduced.

 

[AmyMay]

Hi,

I was thinking more trotting poles (not raised polls) I may just stick to the light hacking & occasional lunging for the next month whilst sorting his feed out.

I don’t want to do too much but also don’t want to do too little, again finding the right balance ?

Hopefully I’ll have some good before & after pictures in a few months

I would simply quietly hack him out for the next couple of months. Slow, steady work, along with the right feeding regime will have him looking great in that time.

 

[ycbm]

Ideally you want him on 4% of his bodyweight in hay. for a 350kg horse that would of course be 14kg per day

4% of his body weight is DOUBLE the maintenance ration for a normal horse and even if you want to put weight on and can make the horse eat that much, you don't want to be feeding double, especially going into spring.

This horse's normal bodyweight, looking at his size and type, will be 550 to 600 kg, not 350kg and therefore the recommended TOTAL dry matter of food, including grass and bucket feed, would be 11-12kg or a little more if weight gain is wanted.

CD I think I am one of the many, many users of this forum who you have on ignore, but just in case I'm not, will you please stop telling people to feed 4% of bodyweight, this is the second thread in a week you've done it and it's wrong and potentially dangerous.

 

[Elno]

4% of his body weight is DOUBLE the maintenance ration for a normal horse and even if you want to put weight on and can make the horse eat that much, you don't want to be feeding double, especially going into spring.

This horse's normal bodyweight, looking at his size and type, will be 550 to 600 kg, not 350kg and therefore the recommended TOTAL dry matter of food, including gas and bucket feed, would be 11-12kg or a little more if weight gain is wanted.

CD I think I am one of the many, many users of this forum who you have on ignore, but just in case I'm not, will you please stop telling people to feed 4% of bodyweight, this is the second thread in a week you've done it and it's wrong and potentially dangerous.

https://ker.com/equinews/much-hay-feed-horses-begin/

The researchers at KER surely must know what they are talking about, I reckon ?

Is it even possible to stuff a horse with 4 % dry matter? ? Way back when I tried ad lib hay, mine was completely, utterly overstuffed on not even 3 % (2.7 is her absolute max) - and she is not the fussy kind to turn down food.

 

[Elno]

Hi All,

I’m currently feeding a new tb Speedibeet, mollichaf & Ease & Excel cubes.

Looking to change the chaff as mollichaf isn’t ideal, I’m thinking molasses free hifi? I was going to try the Alfa a oil, but heard a lot of horses don’t get on with it.

I’m also thinking about changing Speedibeet to Soothe & Gain? Would you feed Soothe & Gain along side Ease & Excel cubes?

He’ll also be on some micronised linseed & Bluechip calming balancer.

He needs a bit of weight put on but he’s not mega skinny, we need to do a lot to build top line but don’t want anything fizzy.

Any advice or opinions would be great?

Back when I had a TB who needed some feeding up he was given 1-2 kg of molasses-free alfalfa pellets and 1 kg of a low starch low sugar müsli-mix per day, plus some rape seed oil. Gained weight beautifully and without any fizz. Personally I would not bother feeding chaff to a poor doer, since it fills them up without providing enough calories and protein.

 

[Ched9310]

Thanks all.

He has had a bad fitting saddle previously, he has a white patch on his withers. But we have one that fits well for now & the saddle fitter I use is fab, I’ll be getting him & the physio out again in summer.

I have spent hours researching but like to know peoples opinions also, but any advice given will be checked also!

 

[magicmoments]

I second Dengie, I find Mollichaff won't give them enough to put on weight, that stuff is cheap and tacky and better for do-gooders who don't need to put on their weight. Needless to say I give this to my New Forest x Welsh pony merely to keep her happy whislt I feed my Partbred Arab x TB with Allen & Page Calm and Condition and Dengie Alfa-A Molasses Free. Apparently some horses have issues with alfalfa but I read this is more myth than it is the truth. Needless to say mine is fine with it. Soothe and Gain is also a good alternative to Calm and Condition, which you've already mentioned. Definetely ditch the beet, or make it a morning feed and give them the Soothe and Gain in the evening as extra bulk, though really you shouldn't need that this time of year, perhapas in Winter, which is what I do with the beet. You could try other Dengie products, as suggested above, should you find your horse doesn't agree with alfalfa.
I couldn't recommend the Ease & Excell cubes unless you are hard-working as this could possibly make him fizzy if you're not burning off that energy he'll be getting as this is what they're meant for.

Can I ask is his weight really that bad at the moment? is there any particular reason why he needs to put any on? I mean we have just come out of Winter so he will be slightly underweight and possibly showing a bit of rib, this is quite natural and Spring/Summer grazing should put most of his weight back on in-which you can work on the rest during Autumn and part through Winter should he need it. In my opinion, if his weight is merely 20% lower than what it should be I wouldn't worry too much, even at 30% could be considered ok, though you'd probably be better asking a vet or nutritionist about that. Definately shouldn't be 40% under normal weight though for sure. Needless to say that would be considered too underweight. Also try not to go overboard and make him overweight either. You don't want him ending up with Laminitis come Autumn due to being overweight whilst eating all that Spring grass.

However if you are thinking of changing feed please bare in mind you must do so gradually. To transition safely I recommend changing every other day 20% of their feed. So ie Monday give them 100% usual feed, Tuesday 80% usual feed, 20% new feed, Wednesday 80/20, Thursday 60/40, Friday 60/40, Saturday 40/60, Sunday 40/60, or you could even drop to 20/80 by Sunday and have them 100% on the new feed the following Monday.

I can only comment that Ease and Excel has had no adverse effects on my TB who is in light work and was recommended by an independent nutritionist, as one of a number of feeds to help keep weight on over the winter. She is generally of a calm nature, but as many TB's is quick to light up when she does.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

I can only comment that Ease and Excel has had no adverse effects on my TB who is in light work and was recommended by an independent nutritionist, as one of a number of feeds to help keep weight on over the winter. She is generally of a calm nature, but as many TB's is quick to light up when she does.

With that being said no doubt you didnt' give them anything else mentioned ontop of, since it's pretty obvious from that statement. Which is fine, at least to a degree. When adding it ontop of something like Soothe and Gain though is overkill in the fibre percentage and it's just unnecersary excess energy by that point. Overfeeding a horse like that can do more harm then good.

For the record, being doing some thinking and some calculations; whilst I was at my previous yard they allowed "ad-lib" (such a rediculous word if you ask me, got to love those slangs) hay with a 200kg round bale which both ponies and horses had access to. I owned a pony, the others had a horse so that was 3 horses and a pony, 4 in total. Most of the time that bale ran out within 5 days. Not hard to calculate what 200kg / 5 / 4 equals and it's certainly not 2% of 400kg which is the average weight of those horses. And no, it's not quite 3% nor is it 4%, infact it's 2.5%, but I can assure you those horses still ate feed ontop of and any haynet offered to them as well! Either way you want to argue that 1.5% - 2% is thee go-to amount of hay a horse should eat per day and yet you also wish to support "ad-lib" which in most cases more likely than not, unless controlled but then it ain't "ad-lib", those horses are generally overeating according to those statistics. Needless to say though that some horses do infact need more than others, especially those poor doers. So yes it is quite possible they'll eat 3% and hell maybe even 4% if you let them. Also, I recall someone arguing on here about fat horses standing around eating hay off the bale which is pretty much contributing to the problem of obesity which I'm sure, heaven forbid, I don't need to explain why that would be a problem? Is this not what you call "ad-lib" ?? Rather oxymoronic if you ask me.

 

[milliepops]

Ad lib isn't slang, it's a shortened form of the Latin "ad libitum", literally as you desire, so perfectly applicable to free feeding of animals.

They might be able to consume 4% but they don't *need* to, generally