Feeding advice & opinions for TB!?

[The Jokers Girl]

Ad lib is Latin meaning as you desire. The full phrase is ad libitum, its not slang for anything. Alot of the English language is made up of Latin phrases.

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Oh sorry millie x posted , great minds and all that haha ?

 

[ycbm]

When adding it ontop of something like Soothe and Gain though is overkill in the fibre percentage and it's just unnecersary excess energy by that point.

You seem in this and other posts to get very confused between fibre and energy and use them interchangeably. High fibre feeds are usually lower energy.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Ad lib is Latin meaning as you desire. The full phrase is ad libitum, its not slang for anything. Alot of the English language is made up of Latin phrases.

Slang is mostly made up of latin words too so I honetly fail to see your point really. Either way, define "as you desire" ? Should it not be "as the horse desires" ? And if so then how is this focused around 2% which was the whole point in my statement which you seem to have ignored and/or overlooked.

 

[ycbm]

3 horses and a pony, 4 in total. Most of the time that bale ran out within 5 days. Not hard to calculate what 200kg / 5 / 4 equals and it's certainly not 2% of 400kg which is the average weight of those horses

Most equines which people would describe as horses weigh a lot more than 400kg. Unless you had them on a weighbridge, I think your guesstimate as to their weights is wrong.

 

[TPO]

Another who has owned a few ex racers

I love Pink Mash for them (& others). I've never had a horse with soya allergy and theyve all done really well on it.

I also feed micronised linseed and unmolassed chaff. When they need extra I add grass nuts.

When my last TB needed "more" from feed, and was overfaced with the quantity of grass nuts needed, I put him on Baileys no.21 ease and Excel mix. He got nowhere near the recommended amount and done really well in it.

He was a highly strung TB, barefoot and presented like a typical ulcer horse. Ease and Excel had no negative effects at all; only positive

I also feed salt and a high spec vit/min supp to them all. I use Progressive Earth Pro Balance.

Alongside all of that I feed adlib forage (hay)

The most pertinent feed advice is check your sources. Sometime the people dishing it out were the same people asking 5mins previous and have no real life experience of the question asked.

It's pretty easy to search posters previous posts to see who is speaking from experience and who is making it up as they go (but saying crud with such confidence and authority!). Anyone can be anything on the internet!!

 

[Elno]

For the record, being doing some thinking and some calculations; whilst I was at my previous yard they allowed "ad-lib" (such a rediculous word if you ask me, got to love those slangs) hay with a 200kg round bale which both ponies and horses had access to. I owned a pony, the others had a horse so that was 3 horses and a pony, 4 in total. Most of the time that bale ran out within 5 days. Not hard to calculate what 200kg / 5 / 4 equals and it's certainly not 2% of 400kg which is the average weight of those horses. And no, it's not quite 3% nor is it 4%, infact it's 2.5%, but I can assure you those horses still ate feed ontop of and any haynet offered to them as well! Either way you want to argue that 1.5% - 2% is thee go-to amount of hay a horse should eat per day and yet you also wish to support "ad-lib" which in most cases more likely than not, unless controlled but then it ain't "ad-lib", those horses are generally overeating according to those statistics. Needless to say though that some horses do infact need more than others, especially those poor doers. So yes it is quite possible they'll eat 3% and hell maybe even 4% if you let them. Also, I recall someone arguing on here about fat horses standing around eating hay off the bale which is pretty much contributing to the problem of obesity which I'm sure, heaven forbid, I don't need to explain why that would be a problem? Is this not what you call "ad-lib" ?? Rather oxymoronic if you ask me.

200 kg for 5 days equals 40 kg. 40 kg for 4 horses assuming they eat the same amount is 10 kgs. Assuming it's hay and not haylage its safe to assume that the dry substance is 84% as most hay is. 10 kg hay equals therefor 8.4 kg dry substance. Assuming the horses weigh 400 kgs it means they consume 2.1 kg dry substance per 100 kg weight, i.e the same 2 % (or 2.1% if you wish) that everyone who knows something about horse nutrition have been telling you.

Furthermore, the average horse usually weights around 450-500 kgs, not 400, meaning that the per cent probably is even lower, and using the calculations above around 1.7 %.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Slang is language (words, phrases, and usages) of an informal register. It also sometimes refer to the language generally exclusive to the members of particular in-groups prefer over the common vocabulary of a standard language in order to establish group identity, exclude outsiders, or both. .

Crossed out the parts that isn't relevant to the use of "ad-lib" but what I would still consider as "slang" by it's defintiion.

 

[windand rain]

Grass nuts, grass chaff, linseed and if more needed then soothe and gain, He is not thin he is spring slim if he is on good grass 24.7 then he will pick up nicely always increase work before increasing food and give access to forage 365 days of the year if they wont eat all their hay and are on good grass cut back the hay, it just wastes it a manageable amount every day is better than loads on the floor, If as summer progresses his weight doesnt pick up or he becomes uncomfortable then he will need veterinary investigation. Keep to a low sugar low starch high oil diet and properly balanced exercise and he will build into a lovely horse
All this is assuming he is pain free and not burdened by worms

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Slang is mostly made up of latin words too so I honetly fail to see your point really. Either way, define "as you desire" ? Should it not be "as the horse desires" ? And if so then how is this focused around 2% which was the whole point in my statement which you seem to have ignored and/or overlooked.

Latin isn't slang, in fact it is the total opposite.
Slang is a form of informal language i.e. people say dosh for money
Latin is a very formal use of language which is why it is used a lot in business and contracts, I.e. caviat emptor when buying a used car for example.

Unfortunately CD you have dangerously been advising people on multiple threads that they should be feeding their horses 4% dry matter, by doing this you would likely cause colic at the very least, if you could even get a horse to eat that much, and that fibre is bad and will send posters horses loopy if they feed high fibre. Fibre is not bad, it is what the majority of a healthy horses diet should be made up of.
Healthy horses, with no underlying health issues have an off switch and by giving them an amount of hay ad lib they will not over eat, they will eat around 1.5 to 2% of their body weight. In cold, wet, wintry conditions, when they don't have adequate shelter or when temps drop unexpectedly they may eat more to keep warm if the forage is available .

mine has EMS so no off switch and would literally eat herself to death if I gave her ad lib, or even 4%, so for those that cannot feed ad lib the % very knowledgeable and experienced horse owners on these threads have been correcting you on have stopped any inexperienced horse owners that stumble upon your posts from killing their horses.

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Crossed out the parts that isn't relevant to the use of "ad-lib" but what I would still consider as "slang" by it's defintiion.

You can't redefine the English language just because you can't, or refuse to understand the use of formal Latin phrases.
Ad lib is not a slang phrase. Dosh for money, loo for toilet, knackered for tired.
They are very informal words and phrases and are slang
No Latin words are slang words as Latin is a formal language and by its definition cannot be slang

 

[CrimsonDivine]

I'd also like to point out that the horse society is so built up on so-called "formal" words only to fool your niave minds from the truth. You seem to think because it's some kind of "fancy latin word" that it must be true without an shimmer of a doubt in your mind. This way of speach has been conducted over many years by nutritionists and vets as they've figured out that it seems to work on you which makes it easier to market toward you by doing so. Personally I prefer simpler terms that most people can understand rather than by know-it-all know nothings trying to sound smart when in realtiy they aren't. Fact is most who use these upper-class terms just want you to buy their crap and do what they want you to do rather than figure it out for yourselves. That's how monoply works and you are the gullable consumers I'm afraid.

Needless to say in general my horses are healthy and always have been. Sure I've had the odd issue with my new horse but not something I haven't figured out and resolved on my own, partly down to the toxic negative feedback on here that I didn't find most responses that much helpful thus why I respond so in kind. Ironic that you all seem to belittle me whenever oppertunity arrives whereas, and I've said this already before; you only have yourselves to blame for the way you are. I am willing to accept my faults, I know I'm no saint nor perfect, but I don't try to act like I'm someone else or pretend to know what I'm talking about when I know otherwise. Needless to say if I do know what I'm talking about damn straight I'm going to say so!

Ya know what's worse? Your childish argumentative behaviour merely negates anyone's ability to actually get the response and assistance they actually need and thus you are also jeperdising that horse's wellbeing by doing so. That being said I'll be the bigger person and set an example by throwing in the towel. I rest my case, now can we please get back on topic and stop debating about needless nonsense and pointless terminologies that in reality contridict the very thing you do anyway?! THAT was my entire point! NOT the fact of whether it was even slang to begin with. Trying to seem smart by debating pointless things doesn't make you smart in general. If anything it makes you a nuisance.

 

[milliepops]

Wtaf ?‍
Sorry your thread has gone a bit sideways, OP ?
Remember to share some updated pics when you've had your horse a bit longer, we love a before & after.

 

[Tihamandturkey]

CD - do you ever contribute to a thread without trying to cause an argument or worse?

 

[shortstuff99]

If he is doing well (temperament wise) on what he is now, but you just want a few more calories then you could just give him an extra feed of it? Or increase what he has now, coupled with grass growth and steady work. Possibly just add an oil on top like linseed or outshine, then you don't have to faff changing everything.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

200 kg for 5 days equals 40 kg. 40 kg for 4 horses assuming they eat the same amount is 10 kgs. Assuming it's hay and not haylage its safe to assume that the dry substance is 84% as most hay is. 10 kg hay equals therefor 8.4 kg dry substance. Assuming the horses weigh 400 kgs it means they consume 2.1 kg dry substance per 100 kg weight, i.e the same 2 % (or 2.1% if you wish) that everyone who knows something about horse nutrition have been telling you.

Furthermore, the average horse usually weights around 450-500 kgs, not 400, meaning that the per cent probably is even lower, and using the calculations above around 1.7 %.

Well that's funny because most vets and nutritionists will tell you that a horse will not eat more than what they can and should. So IF a horse does NOT want to eat it then that's absalutely fine, no one should be forcing it to. Depriving a horse, or any animal, of what it needs can also have negative affects. Overcontrolling and humanising everything to what you think is best for them actually causes more harm than good. Infact I'm pretty sure you don't even know the true causes of laminitis and probably one of those ignorant ones who will allow their horses to live on short grass or no grass at all because heaven forbid they get adiquirt enough of their staple food eh?? Which of course they've been living on thousands of years before humans ever intervined and domesticated them. Ironic that only hundreds of years later we actually discover laminitis. Here's a hint; people cause it and continue to do so by not doing what's best for their horses. Kind of like people who don't responsability for their own health and end up with diabetes. Infact it's a very similar thing. FYI diabetes, and laminitis, does not develop from sugar alone, it just plays a key role within the disease that has developed due to insulin deficency but there's alot more to it than simply eating too much sugar, or even being obese.

 

[Elno]

You can't redefine the English language just because you can't, or refuse to understand the use of formal Latin phrases.
Ad lib is not a slang phrase. Dosh for money, loo for toilet, knackered for tired.
They are very informal words and phrases and are slang
No Latin words are slang words as Latin is a formal language and by its definition cannot be slang

I think we are several people here who realised that arguing with him is pointless... Almost every thread he's in ends up either locked or way off subject and him becoming more and more aggressive and vile to people.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

No, arguing with you lot is pointless. What bothers me most is I've seen too many horses die due to ignorance and irresponsable owners who solely believed that they knew best when in reality they didn't and THAT is why I get so frustrated when I see more ignorant and arrogant people here. Not to mention very toxic. You call me aggressive and vile? You make me laugh. Go look in a mirror. Stop ruining the horse society for those who actually want what's best for their horses. It's so selfish and childish and many have had to pay their lives over it.

 

[AmyMay]

Well that's funny because most vets and nutritionists will tell you that a horse will not eat more than what they can and should. .

Not that Elno mentioned restricting food intake, but what a load of twaddle ?

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Anyway.. I did say I was going to throw in the towel, such a shame that people just wish to continue to be provokative which in itself is also childish to be frank. Not to mention toxic as all you're doing is stirring the pot intentionally to cause a ruse, which ironically was stated before as well. Infact I had a couple of members telling me in private that they felt you were nothing but a bunch of bullies and was reported for your responses, not to mention so did I, and THAT is why the thread got locked.

 

[AmyMay]

And now you’re just being daft.....

 

[TPO]

??‍??‍??‍ yeah this is a forum full of ignorant people who do not have years of experience and most certainly do not care about horse welfare.

It's scary that someone can post with such confidence and authority on a subject that they have no experience or knowledge about. It wasn't 5mins ago that the "experienced horseman" posted asking novice/basic feed questions.

Everyone has to learn and theres no shame in asking anything but to constantly dish out false statements as fact is dangerous. Absolutely nothing posted by CD on this thread is correct from the % ratio of feed to bodyweight, to what horses will or won't eat never mind the detour via Latin

No matter who posts what I hope all new posters check sources and do their own research rather than take anything a randomer posts on a forum as fact.

Edited for to correct autocorrect ?

 

[milliepops]

Hho thread bingo!
We have the secret PMs

 

[Tihamandturkey]

I have reported Crimson Divine as he is constantly attacking forum members

 

[CrimsonDivine]

And now you’re just being daft.....

Hark, who's talking? Oh, yet another who wants to set an example and prove my point, bravo. As for your twaddle statement? Tell that to the so-called professionals you all so love to tell us to turn to, want their number while we're at it? Infact I agree, it is a load of twaddle, so is the comments from those who believe it's all gospal and nothing else will change that. Proof is straight from the horse really, and if you can't learn from that well then I just feel sorry for them being in such care, if it can even be called such a thing.

 

[AmyMay]

Hark, who's talking? Oh, yet another who wants to set an example and prove my point, bravo. As for your twaddle statement? Tell that to the so-called professionals you all so love to tell us to turn to, want their number while we're at it? Infact I agree, it is a load of twaddle, so is the comments from those who believe it's all gospal and nothing else will change that. Proof is straight from the horse really, and if you can't learn from that well then I just feel sorry for them being in such care, if it can even be called such a thing.

I don’t take anything I read on this forum as gospel. But I do find the experiences and experience of different posters very informative. Discussion, disagreement (heaven forbid agreement) by people interested in similar things is healthy, fun and educational.

Thankfully (for most) it’s easy to sort the wheat from the chaff ?. And most people have something to offer - obviously not all ?

There’s often some strong, robust discussions on this forum, but thankfully only a handful of posters who manage to derail things completely. I’m guessing by now you realise which category you come under...

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Infact it was a vet that told me to allow my horse so-called "ad-lib" which in her definition meant to let him have as much as he can eat. And yes, this pretty much sums up the defition as it is also relative to whom it applies to, be it a person or the horse. She also told me that you can exceed the recommended amount as that was simply there as a guideline for those who obviously need better control over their horses diet, ie those who overfeed them with crap and allow them to become obese. Another irony is that fact is hay is one of thee lowest of food when it comes to fat or sugar, yet you all go crazy when someone states "let them eat as much as they need" but then want to preach "ad-lib" like you know what it really means, which clearly you don't. Do us all a favour and just stop it with this nonsense otherwise of course someone like myself is going to come along and put you in your place and tell you how wrong you are, whether you like it or not because that is the actual fact of it really. I speak from experience, I've not lost a single horse to an illness nor have mine ever developed laminitis or any other common dissorders or diseases, can you say the same? Worse my horse ever got was lice, and yeah that is quite common in young and elderly horses so it can't really be helped, and yet again I resolved that myself, going against the nonsense I got from here regarding that matter.

I rest my case. OP GL with your horse. My best advice? leave here while you still can and still rather new. I really hope you don't end up like some of them who clearly have nothing better to do than bully and belittle people to make themselves feel special.

 

[shortstuff99]

Me right now....

 

[AmyMay]

Infact it was a vet that told me to allow my horse so-called "ad-lib" which in her definition meant to let him have as much as he can eat.

It’s everyone’s definition....

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Me right now....
View attachment 69523

Should I consider the age of the person in the picture to be a coincidence or does that apply too? Because if it does apply I for once agree! Guess you couldn't have found a better picture? Ya know what? don't bother to respond, welcome to the blocked and reported list.