First weekend in Feb plans

Beautiful photo, Blood Magik. Horse is looking great.

So sorry to hear about Darcy, MP.

An okay weekend here. Saturday was pants so I didn't bother with Hermosa and just did Foinavon's stable. Fin was excellent on our hack today (as ever), but I felt a bit down about Hermosa. Well, not her specifically. She has regressed in her training after weaning. She was brave and calm about tarps, rugs, etc. when she had the foal at foot, but now she's wary and scatty about it. But she had to be moved to a new herd (for the fourth time this year...ugh) and lost her baby, so I'm empathetic. It is what it is. I go back to where she is and work with it.

Today didn't make it easier. I brought Hermosa into the main yard where there is a byre for people to tack up in and a wee courtyard space in front of it. The courtyard is very useful for some groundwork -- I often use it. Meanwhile, another livery was riding her new horse in the arena, which I could see, because you have a clear view of the arena from the courtyard. I brushed Hermosa in the byre, then led her into the courtyard, along with my flag, so I could introduce her to Mr. Flag in said courtyard (I think a bit of flag work will help her). Before I started the work, Friend, who'd been out catching her horse in the field when I arrived, approached us as I was holding Mr. Flag by the flag end, so he wouldn't flap until Hermosa was ready for a bit of flapping.

"Hey," I said, I assuming she'd make the usual chitchat... 'Hey, how are you? How are the ponies?' You know, the usual.

Without any preamble, Friend snapped vexatiously, "You shouldn't go into the arena with the umbrella because X is riding her new horse."

Taken aback, I stammered, "Uhhh, it's a flag and I wasn't." I'm like my other horse. I kind of freeze-and-panic when people yell at me.

Friend turned on her heel and stalked off.

WTF, I thought. Didn't help me get into a zen-like mindset to work with my young horse, but I did my best. Friend also has some serious, life-changing health issues, so she's justified in having irritable days, and I try to let it wash past, like I'm a rock in a river. But man, all this zen is hard.
 
Last edited:
Went horse shopping with a friend on Saturday and it was slightly annoying for a variety of reasons, so I don't think I'll be helping in that endeavor anymore.

Yesterday we schooled indoors because it was raining sideways all day. He felt fantastic. Changed my warmup a bit over the last rides and it's definitely more suitable for him. Our communication was on point and he's such a smart little dude. He's just been nailing it with ease. I actually think the jumping has helped too. It's brought out some confidence in him and helps strengthen his hind end in a different way (aka he doesn't see it as work so much, unlike with dressage ?).

Super pleased at the moment.

Screenshot_20220207-092524_Gallery.jpg
 
He’s a handsome chap CC.

CI, could the other rider see you and the flag from where they were riding? That might have been a concern too I guess.

Hacked Saturday - like most days, most drivers were great but 1 or 2 just don’t get it - too close and too fast. I can never relax on these rides until we get back to the estate we’re on which is much quieter and cars are slower. I don’t do the other hacks often but it gets very dull doing the same route round the estate. Got a bit anxious as we came back as the horses were coming in and they were all going crazy. But we survived!

Remembered how amazing Finn is yesterday. hacked with a group of us then they went back in, I turned him around and off we went to do some faster work in the field on our own. Not many horses I know would do that without batting an eyelid and be so safe and solid throughout. He’s very special.

Then had a good schooling session with Bertie, the canter transitions are slowly getting better. So all in all a lovely horsey weekend. Weather was good too, bright clear skies, snowdrops are coming out, and only a bit of wind.
 
Bernster said:
He’s a handsome chap CC.

CI, could the other rider see you and the flag from where they were riding? That might have been a concern too I guess.

Hacked Saturday - like most days, most drivers were great but 1 or 2 just don’t get it - too close and too fast. I can never relax on these rides until we get back to the estate we’re on which is much quieter and cars are slower. I don’t do the other hacks often but it gets very dull doing the same route round the estate. Got a bit anxious as we came back as the horses were coming in and they were all going crazy. But we survived!

Remembered how amazing Finn is yesterday. hacked with a group of us then they went back in, I turned him around and off we went to do some faster work in the field on our own. Not many horses I know would do that without batting an eyelid and be so safe and solid throughout. He’s very special.

Then had a good schooling session with Bertie, the canter transitions are slowly getting better. So all in all a lovely horsey weekend. Weather was good too, bright clear skies, snowdrops are coming out, and only a bit of wind.
Click to expand...

If the rider had seen us, it would have looked like I had a dressage whip at that distance. It's one of those small horsemanship flags. I suppose I felt hurt by the implication that I was stupid enough to go into the school with an "umbrella" while someone was riding. Not by someone who doesn't know me, but by someone who I consider a good friend, who's known me for eight years. And by the fact that she went straightaway for accusatory, rather than gathering information first, like, "Heya, are you planning on working in the school?"

On another note, my yard's horses and people are resigned to the local drivers. So many of them suck. When I first got Foinavon, he was a bit worried by cars passing at speed; his previous owner used to jump up and down in front of them and force them to slow down, but there was less traffic in his old home. I'm pleased by how rock solid he's become around people driving like tw*ts.
 
CI - that would annoy me too. I'm sure she was just having a bad day and sadly you got the brunt of it.
MP - the herd look to be on the up, fingers crossed for no more drama for the foreseeable!
Well done to everyone who's been out and about, it sounds like some good fun and good lessons have been had.

Our Friday hack saw the closest Chilli's done to a proper spook. He seems to struggle to interpret reflections or shadows moving towards him - he's had a little shy at shiny lorries / trailers in the past when he's spotted his reflection and on Friday there was a car coming past on the other side of the road and the position of the sun meant the shadow (with some refraction through the window) was coming right for us. Chilli stopped and drew himself up, I was worried he might leap straight in front of the car, but he listened to my leg and kept going. My friend who was with us was laughing and said "Trust him to do that in front of Graham Fletcher" - I hadn't spotted who was driving and was partly mortified and partly relieved that it was someone who would understand a horse spook!

Volunteering on Saturday went pleasantly quickly and smoothly, with just one sharp shower but lots of spooks from horses as the wind was blowing the fake flowers around. Schooled Chilli on the way home and he was back to being quite tense and anxious, then relaxing and working beautifully for sections. I dragged my (non-horsey but good at coaching) OH to the yard yesterday to take a look and he was very helpful, then I made him get on and walk a circle with me leading ;) Only his second time on a horse but he was quite comfy up there so I think I'll get him a lesson somewhere!
 
CI, on that first point, it’s a really common thing and I try really hard not to fall into that myself. Most times there’s a reasonable explanation for something I might think is odd, and so it’s best not to jump to conclusions, like your friend did, but I think we all do it a lot!
 
Well - Area Festivals complete. It was an experience - not sure I'd rush to do it again, but that's often how I feel about going out to do pure dressage in general! I think I referenced above - I am reconciling myself to enjoying training dressage, but not enjoying the competition and inevitable subjectivity attached to it.

The older horse did a not great rendition of E53 on Friday morning - but judges were all aligned around 63-64% and we had a major mistake in the extended walk - so I can easily see a clear path for how to turn it into a 65% test in the future. Then on Saturday evening we had a much more frustrating experience in N23. I felt like he'd done a much more consistent and correct test than the Ele, so was then confused to see the three judges were not aligned on 67.5/62/63 - he would generally score worse from E than C (he's very straight, not always very 'through'). Looking through comments it seems second two judges marked him down for being hurried. Clearly judge at C was starting on a 7 by default for him and marking down a few worse bits, judges at E and M were starting on a 6 and occasionally stretching to a 6.5. Found that quite frustrating as he's performed (probably slightly worse) tests at novice level and gone 70%+ BD/BE. No real idea how to correct it, as if I don't keep the trot forward, he then really isn't through at all. I do wonder if judges see what looks like a big muscular athletic type of horse when he comes in the ring and then are disappointed by his unimpressive movement? Unlike the cobs that come in with low expectations and then exceed them?

Anyway - I noticed a couple of other people also had massive disagreements across the three judges in this and some other tests - and one poor person got 67/61/67 which really seems like an excessive disagreement to me!

Young Isaac did the Prelim silver yesterday evening more as a good life experience than expecting to be in any way competitive. He was really cute - he desperately wanted to be spooky, but he was also trying to do what I was asking. This resulted in quite a few drunken looking wobbly bits, but also some flashes of really nice work. I'm finally starting to feel like we're getting the soft connection through to the bit which has eluded him for some time. Judges were mixed at 60/64/65+, but understand the mark from judge at C who will have witness the wobbliest of his wobbles. Awaiting test sheets to arrive in the post as wasn't going to wait until gone 9pm! The M judge would have placed him in her top ten looking at the marks, so I'm positive about that at least. He just needs to strengthen up some more and come out at Novice later this year - unlike the older horse he actually has a medium trot by nature, so it should be a bit easier for him to impress in the future.

Staying over was a bit of a weird experience - quite an atmosphere-less show and not a lot going on. We went into Liverpool for food a couple of times which was nice. There were serious gale force winds all weekend so the horsewalk from stables to arenas wasn't really safe to use - had to keep boxing up and down which was madness. The small exercise area near the stables also wasn't very safe as there was construction work taking place next door to it (in the wind) ALL weekend.

Result of this was that in order to get a proper leg stretch into Isaac on Saturday morning, we boxed him up to the beach at Formby. This is where he really did excel himself - having never been before, he wandered straight over the dunes into the optical illusion of sand blowing everywhere, have a lovely time cantering around, and then walked straight into the sea without any hesitation about the waves. Can't wait to take him back on a nice sunny day and have much more of a splash around!

 
@RachelFerd I have an issue with the scoring at regionals etc. People often take a horse that's out scoring 70+ and come away with 65% or even less and they shrug and go well its regionals you expect to be marked more harshly...

That seems pretty standard. I personally think it's wrong - the criteria are the ssame so the marks should be. Either marks are given away to freely at qualifiers, or the judges do mark more stringently at regionals which imo is wrong. The level is the level, a 7 etc is a 7. I can accept that having judges in different places would see things and impact marks but even so.

Worth it for Formby beach though
 
RF - sounds like a mixed weekend. I often find dressage shows are a bit soulless for staying over, unless you do a camp or a team event in which case they're great fun.

I meant to reply to your earlier about Elementary vs Medium tests. I hate Elementaries, it feels like they want a more advanced way of going while doing movements that aren't really much harder than Novice whereas at Medium the movements (and speed at which they come up) helps to collect the horse and create more thoroughness. My old PRE also found half-pass a lot easier than LY so we moved up to Medium quickly, and I did the same with my loan horse (we just did one HC Medium) and he got a higher score at Medium than at Ele. I know I'm not alone in that! I think I might skip Ele entirely with Chill, if we ever get to the point of competing at all :p

I'm envious of your beach trip. I walked to dogs at Formby at Christmas and there were two riders having what looked like a great time there.
 
Last edited:
Someone told me to move to medium rather than do much at elementary. I wish I had done but didn’t think my riding was up to it as he is the first horse I had done BD on. Aintree lovely when the sun shines. The beach looks fab.
 
Another who does the bare minimum at elementary... as soon as they are ready for an ele my horses are normally fairly proficient at all the medium level sideways, and medium is actually enjoyable to ride :)

I think the impact of the 3 judges at bigger shows is pretty big really, I expect we're all accustomed to having a fair bit of "getting away with it" time in the arena with just a judge at C whether that's because of sub optimal viewing angles or just the nature of a human missing iffy microseconds etc. with 3 sets of eyes on you there's much more scope for minor issues to be picked up. 5% drop in scores is only 0.5 off each mark so for me that would be about the damage i'd expect as a result.
 
humblepie said:
Someone told me to move to medium rather than do much at elementary. I wish I had done but didn’t think my riding was up to it as he is the first horse I had done BD on. Aintree lovely when the sun shines. The beach looks fab.
Click to expand...

Aintree = the windiest place on earth last weekend... my previous stay-over show there was a July/August one - and it was glorious!


Roxylola said:
@RachelFerd I have an issue with the scoring at regionals etc. People often take a horse that's out scoring 70+ and come away with 65% or even less and they shrug and go well its regionals you expect to be marked more harshly...

That seems pretty standard. I personally think it's wrong - the criteria are the ssame so the marks should be. Either marks are given away to freely at qualifiers, or the judges do mark more stringently at regionals which imo is wrong. The level is the level, a 7 etc is a 7. I can accept that having judges in different places would see things and impact marks but even so.
Click to expand...

I totally agree - I also believe a mark is a mark is a mark - a 7 at novice should be a 7 at any novice - not relative to the standards of everyone else around you, or deliberately harsh because it is a qualifier. I think it is fairly enough that having a panel of judges will tend to lower the score a little on average, because it becomes much less likely that any minor errors are missed because of the range of viewing positions. I know that my older horse will always score a little lower from E because he is long and build heavily onto the forehand. And totally understand baby horse scoring lower from C when straightness wasn't wonderful.

I do wonder if part of the issue is how much people are suppressing their points so they can play each stage of the levels, rather than competing at the level their horses are really training at. Friend last year got to the prelim bronze area festival finals on a 68% score - but she was training at ele/medium on her v well established pony... so i'm not really sure how you mark a genuine prelim horse against that...
 
milliepops said:
Another who does the bare minimum at elementary... as soon as they are ready for an ele my horses are normally fairly proficient at all the medium level sideways, and medium is actually enjoyable to ride :)

I think the impact of the 3 judges at bigger shows is pretty big really, I expect we're all accustomed to having a fair bit of "getting away with it" time in the arena with just a judge at C whether that's because of sub optimal viewing angles or just the nature of a human missing iffy microseconds etc. with 3 sets of eyes on you there's much more scope for minor issues to be picked up. 5% drop in scores is only 0.5 off each mark so for me that would be about the damage i'd expect as a result.
Click to expand...

In my (albeit limited) FEI eventing experience the score differences i've seen at 2* have only really been in the region of 1-2% difference rather than wilder.

I think what I struggle with is that the area festival scores overall are so tight - most classes only ranged between 60-70% (occasionally 58-72%) so everyone, within reason, is scoring a vast majority of 6s, 6.5s and 7s - and that doesn't seem to be enough room for nuance in the judging to sort out the difference between 45 novice tests correctly!
 
RachelFerd said:
In my (albeit limited) FEI eventing experience the score differences i've seen at 2* have only really been in the region of 1-2% difference rather than wilder.

I think what I struggle with is that the area festival scores overall are so tight - most classes only ranged between 60-70% (occasionally 58-72%) so everyone, within reason, is scoring a vast majority of 6s, 6.5s and 7s - and that doesn't seem to be enough room for nuance in the judging to sort out the difference between 45 novice tests correctly!
Click to expand...

Having done sheet collecting for the Novice Silver tests at Prestige at the weekend, I'd say the spread of scores (61-70%) was about right for the arena I was 'working' at. There were a lot of clear rounds with the odd blip here and there but I didn't see a single combination that made me go 'wow', nor any that made me cringe. The only combination that may have been 'wow' ended up with a lot of tension and errors as the horse lost it a bit in the arena. It made me wish that I'd made it there last year with my loan horse as I felt we'd have done pretty well!
 
tis the nature of the beast i think ;)
writing for a judge on a panel gives an interesting view into the problem. None of them want to have to do the meeting where they discuss a score with a big difference (7% triggers that i think?) and none of them want to be way off what the others have put. If you want to see the scores spread more then someone has got to get hammered and someone has got to be scored above what they deserve... since most horses and ponies showing up to an AF will be between 6s and 7s the scores will always be close. On the whole, those who score the 8s+ will go to regionals, PLs, HP shows etc and the 5s won't have qualified.
 
milliepops said:
tis the nature of the beast i think ;)
writing for a judge on a panel gives an interesting view into the problem. None of them want to have to do the meeting where they discuss a score with a big difference (7% triggers that i think?) and none of them want to be way off what the others have put. If you want to see the scores spread more then someone has got to get hammered and someone has got to be scored above what they deserve... since most horses and ponies showing up to an AF will be between 6s and 7s the scores will always be close. On the whole, those who score the 8s+ will go to regionals, PLs, HP shows etc and the 5s won't have qualified.
Click to expand...

I've no doubt you're right about the psychology of it - panel judging isn't going to generate brave judging in general. Of the ones I've seen with big gaps, there was a 6.8% difference for one - so just missed that 7% discussion barrier. But that's a gap between being either 4th or 20th in that class - so I still find that a surprising level of discord.

Meanwhile, others from our yard were out doing unaff dressage at the weekend at picking up 73% in a prelim didn't get you placed (winner was on 79%) - so another kettle of fish altogether!
 
RachelFerd said:
I've no doubt you're right about the psychology of it - panel judging isn't going to generate brave judging in general. Of the ones I've seen with big gaps, there was a 6.8% difference for one - so just missed that 7% discussion barrier. But that's a gap between being either 4th or 20th in that class - so I still find that a surprising level of discord.

Meanwhile, others from our yard were out doing unaff dressage at the weekend at picking up 73% in a prelim didn't get you placed (winner was on 79%) - so another kettle of fish altogether!
Click to expand...

I had an 8% (Novice test) and 9% (Prelim test) difference at one AF. I was placed in both classes and missed out on a wildcard for the Finals by 0.1%! I'd have loved to hear the judges debrief after those tests...
 
Ooh the beach looks fun! What a good boy with all that blowy sand and waves. I’ve taken a couple to the beach (only take my calmest horses!) and the waves at the shoreline often freaked them out. I used to hack over to Southport beach years ago, not far from you! There also used to be an amazing xc course the other side of the beach which we’d go and play on, before the days of booking or paying for anything. No idea whose it was !
 
j1ffy said:
Having done sheet collecting for the Novice Silver tests at Prestige at the weekend, I'd say the spread of scores (61-70%) was about right for the arena I was 'working' at. There were a lot of clear rounds with the odd blip here and there but I didn't see a single combination that made me go 'wow', nor any that made me cringe. The only combination that may have been 'wow' ended up with a lot of tension and errors as the horse lost it a bit in the arena. It made me wish that I'd made it there last year with my loan horse as I felt we'd have done pretty well!
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I wrote for the judge at C for one of the ele classes at Prestige on Friday. The scores were also in the range 61 - 70%. The judge I wrote for commented part way through the class that everyone was doing a pretty good job (and deserved to be there), but there were mistakes made, and also a fair few spooks in one particular comer. There was no clear winner until right towards the end, when a couple of horses came in that were clearly a bit more 'wow'. One had some tension, but still ended up placing towards the top, and the combination that won was the clear winner. I write for this particular judge a lot, across quite a few levels and at different venues. I don't think she judged any differently due to it being an AF. I think what people don't always realise is the extra pressure combinations are under at a championship. Tensions will be a little higher with slightly more atmosphere, and that will come out in the tests and be reflected in the results.
 
Bernster said:
Ooh the beach looks fun! What a good boy with all that blowy sand and waves. I’ve taken a couple to the beach (only take my calmest horses!) and the waves at the shoreline often freaked them out. I used to hack over to Southport beach years ago, not far from you! There also used to be an amazing xc course the other side of the beach which we’d go and play on, before the days of booking or paying for anything. No idea whose it was !
Click to expand...

I love the idea of just breaking and entering into someone's cross country course!! About 8/9 years ago I used to be stabled close to Bubby Upton's yard and could theoretically wander into the back of their private XC course from a bridleway I used to use... but I never did, too chicken!!
 
Haha I wasn’t quite such a reprobate ! It was open, we just rode in and there it was. Big circuit with lots of natural fences, we’d have a blast. That was many moons ago when I was braver and would pop my 12.3h pony over 1m+ ?
 
I am broken by the weekend. Running a camp is exhausting and a ridiculous amount of hard work. Feedback seems to be ok though. My horses were absolute idiots all weekend.
It was weirdly like some HHO meet-up. We joked it was the dirty secret as caught up with friends who I made through here nearly 20 years ago. One of the coaches was also a HHO member. I don’t really like this forum now as it’s declined a lot from the outstanding riders we used to have at 4/5* and interesting debates about training to being a bit 50cm/pony patter but back in what I think of as it’s heyday I have met the best of friends who are a huge part of my life. @Jiffy would have known a lot of people!
 
LEC said:
I am broken by the weekend. Running a camp is exhausting and a ridiculous amount of hard work. Feedback seems to be ok though. My horses were absolute idiots all weekend.
It was weirdly like some HHO meet-up. We joked it was the dirty secret as caught up with friends who I made through here nearly 20 years ago. One of the coaches was also a HHO member. I don’t really like this forum now as it’s declined a lot from the outstanding riders we used to have at 4/5* and interesting debates about training to being a bit 50cm/pony patter but back in what I think of as it’s heyday I have met the best of friends who are a huge part of my life. @Jiffy would have known a lot of people!
Click to expand...

Well done for organising, it’s a lovely thing to do for everyone attending but a thankless task in my experience! I’m curious - did you mean me or jiffy..? If me I’d love to know who was there!

I agree on the forum btw, there used to be fabulous updates, discussions and debates at a far higher level (certainly evening, I think dressage is about the same and SJ has never been well-represented on here).
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPO
j1ffy said:
Well done for organising, it’s a lovely thing to do for everyone attending but a thankless task in my experience! I’m curious - did you mean me or jiffy..? If me I’d love to know who was there!

I agree on the forum btw, there used to be fabulous updates, discussions and debates at a far higher level (certainly evening, I think dressage is about the same and SJ has never been well-represented on here).
Click to expand...

whoops you! As long as you are the J1ffy I met at Charlton Park all those years ago and used to attend Weezys parties!!

tabledancer, themule, IHW, Seabiscuit, SW3, sarah_jane, dieseldog, MDM.
 
LEC said:
whoops you! As long as you are the J1ffy I met at Charlton Park all those years ago and used to attend Weezys parties!!

tabledancer, themule, IHW, Seabiscuit, SW3, sarah_jane, dieseldog, MDM.
Click to expand...

Nope, not me! Must be the other Jiffy ?. I do remember those posters on here though!
 
milliepops said:
I think hho is more chatty now than lots of actual training discussions. Things move on, I guess.
Click to expand...
The forum is probably is a reflection of equestrianism in the uk now. Things have changed a lot in the demographic of ownership and in the competing pyramid. So the forum probably reflected what it was like at the time. After all BE80 didn’t even exist. Nor did FB really.
I used to learn so much off this forum so I guess that’s why I had an 8 year break from it and just come back occasionally now but don’t really offer advice or talk much. I used to be obsessed with this place.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top