Foxhounds at Crufts

Maesfen

Extremely Old Nag!
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You may have inferred that, but it wasn't my intention. I object to blasphemy on a public forum - NOT because I am religious myself, but people who are find it offensive. And it is made worse by ignorant punctuation.
I have to hold my hand up and say I am one of those although again, I'm not deeply religious even if I did go to a Parish Church school but old habits die hard. If you must blaspheme, then please have the courtesy to use capitals for their name.
 

Aesculus

Active Member
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27 January 2010
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37
Of all the comments made in the this thread one made by Dazzleby struck me as amazing and quite frankly (unfortunately) just a little arrogant

"Some of you hardened hunters seem to be missing the point. You asked me how my beautiful Cruft's winning Best of Breed Dazzleby Dandelion was bred. I told you, by Duke of Beaufort's Milton.
Probably came as something of a surprise, but I do actually like to use a classy stallion hound on my bitches. I am very fussy about correct type, temperament, health and I want something that's biddable. I have certainly succeeded on all counts."

So could someone with more knowledge than me tell me what the 'correct type' is please?
Is is a OE Belvoir hound or an OE Percy hound? Or a Cottesmore hound? Or perhaps its a Banwen Miners hound or an East Kent or West Street Tickham one?
I would love to know and so would all the obviously confused hunt staff out there who have been breeding a type for their country for years. If we follow the logic in the posting, to its logical conclusion hound shows are pointless because anything not from the DoB Milton line will just not be 'up to the mark'.
The point of a pack of hounds is that they are a team, some (to me at least) are ugly, some have straight or curly sterns or other elements of 'non optimal' conformation but have great noses, some are athletes, others have innate intelligence or 'hound sense' but- the whole pack work together. Breeding for traits to develop 'correct type' will lead to the loss of all that diversity.
However, Dazzleby may well be right and what we have needed all along is the Kennel Club to step in and prescribe things. On the other hand perhaps there should be acceptance that the working foxhound and one bred for showing are two distinct types and we blur that distinction at our peril and that of the hound.
 

combat_claire

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Is that the question ' What are my plans for the future' ?

Answer: To continue to have fun with my hounds.

To be wealthy enough that I can spend all my time with my hounds.

and to help hounds in need, through Foxhound Rescue UK.
Herne & I still have outstanding questions on p13 of this thread.

I want to know whether a working breed can be truly judged at a show that doesn't seem to have them shown loose. I also wanted to know your views on the prohibition of showing docked working breeds and whether a Kennel Club who removes pictures of dogs doing what they were bred to do from display stands can be trusted with the breed standards.

Herne's questions related to the damage that has been done to other working breeds such as the labrador and the basset hound and what safeguards you are putting in place to ensure the fox hound doesn't go the same way.

Regards,
 

EAST KENT

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17 June 2010
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Correct type is that which works well in that hounds type of country,which is why I thought it would be disasterous to use Exmoor hounds with the Ashford Valley. Obviously totally different terrain and soil..however very glad to say I was completely wrong!! The pack improved incredibly ,and are now fast and accurate..and lookers too.:D
 
Joined
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Oh well DONE! That WAS a nice easy one, but you're starting to get the hang of it. Might be a while before you crack apostrophes though!:rolleyes:
...hmmm you are completely right as usual. Well DONE YOU!- Although at least I can probably learn punctuation, (it may be a little hard with me being so lacking in brightness ;) ) but I am not sure if you can 'unlearn' arrogance?:confused:



I have to hold my hand up and say I am one of those although again, I'm not deeply religious even if I did go to a Parish Church school but old habits die hard. If you must blaspheme, then please have the courtesy to use capitals for their name.
Masefen I am sorry to offend you, (genuinely!). As someone who is not religious at all, (mainly due to by upbringing) I do often forget that others think differently. I thoroughly understand the need for a capital if blasphemy is essential, and also accept that in this case I did not need to blaspheme, I hope that you accept my apology. :)
 

SamanthaG

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21 December 2010
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Cornwall
IMO I haven’t read all posts but, look at working labs and show labs very different looking dogs, bred for purpose, one the show ring the other working, this is the same for a lot of breeds
 

POLLDARK

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31 March 2011
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HEREFORDSHIRE
herne & i still have outstanding questions on p13 of this thread.

I want to know whether a working breed can be truly judged at a show that doesn't seem to have them shown loose. I also wanted to know your views on the prohibition of showing docked working breeds and whether a kennel club who removes pictures of dogs doing what they were bred to do from display stands can be trusted with the breed standards.

Herne's questions related to the damage that has been done to other working breeds such as the labrador and the basset hound and what safeguards you are putting in place to ensure the fox hound doesn't go the same way.

Regards,
any breed judged at crufts or any dog show can only be judged on its' breed standard, written at a snapshot moment in time as the breed was then. Usually by experts in the working side deciding what a good example of that breed needs & should look like. Ie the beagle breed standard was written in the 19th cent for what huntsmen thought to be desirable in a good working hound then. The pack beagle has since become much finer in general than the show beagle which is adhering to the 19th cent standard. Neither is right or wrong both can hunt all day very well, with good scenting ability. There is no way in the show ring of deciding whether or not a dog is actually good at its job only that it meets the requirements of what past experts said was required to do the job. You can't judge a typist on the fact he/she has 10 fingers only that he/she needs them.
 
Joined
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Hi Samantha G,

Perhaps you should read all the posts. There are some very interesting ones.

There has always been people talking about the difference in types between show and working in some breeds.

This is precisely the reason why I was adamant from the start that I would ALWAYS use the best Stallion hounds that I could find from the packs. ie a working hound that was also correct in type and confirmation, so that the resultant offspring would not differ from the pack type of hound.

Some of the hounds that I have bred are in packs and do work. Some of my hounds have worked and now show. Some of my hounds have not worked, but could have, they show and/or do agility or obedience.

I do not feel it necessary to comment on docked/undocked gundog breeds as I do not have anything to do with them.
 
Joined
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Incidently, I would be delighted to show my Foxhounds off lead at Cruft's or any other 'showing' show for that matter as they are very good off lead.

Of course when competing at Agility shows they are off lead. They really show how they can move then.

I have already posted some pics of my Foxhounds showing their movement on this site.

Please feel free to look at my website www.dazzlebyfoxhounds.com for more pics.
 

Alec Swan

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20 October 2009
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Norfolk.
.......This is precisely the reason why I was adamant from the start that I would ALWAYS use the best Stallion hounds that I could find from the packs. ie a working hound that was also correct in type and confirmation, so that the resultant offspring would not differ from the pack type of hound.......
With the exception of the DOB's Milton, a hound who patently wasn't with his breeder, when you "used" him, could you advise us of which other packs have allowed your use of their hounds?

If you are using stallion hounds, which live en-pack, are they KC registered?

I've asked, several times, how you dispose of, or draft out your surplus puppies. If you return them to established packs, as you seem to suggest, then how do you manage to find others, to compete against? Or is it that you only compete against yourself?

I'm almost prepared to concede defeat, as I've yet to have one single answer to any question which I've put to you, Dazzelby!! Still, I live in hope!!

I simply don't understand what you think you will achieve, and would be delighted were you to advise me.

Alec.
 
Joined
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Mr Swan..........I thought you had gone to ground!!

I have been offered the use of quite a number of different stallion hounds from different packs.

I have always chosen the hounds that I liked best.

All the stallion hounds used are registered with the MFHA.

I do not have a large number of puppies to dispose of as you so charmingly put it. Since 2000 I have had 3, yes, three litters of puppies.

As I clearly stated before I do not do this for financial gain.

Quite a number of pups have gone into packs. I also have a number of them!!! A few are in private homes.

Not all are alive now. Would you like me to list the fatalities?

I stated before, that I am not the only private breeder of Foxhounds in the UK. But I do not have links with these people, and I do not endorse any of their methods or activities.

I love this fit for function breed, I love to work with it. I promote the Foxhound. People are able to come and meet my hounds at shows, or when I am out and about. Not all people have the time to go to an Agricultural show or meet of hounds.
When they see my hounds they can ask questions handle the hounds, and get to know them.
 

EAST KENT

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17 June 2010
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2,735
Quite simple Alec..no competition..win everything..lots of pots.Sad really.:D Can you imagine a horse in a one horse race "winning" it..same difference.:confused:
 

combat_claire

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Cambridgeshire
Incidently, I would be delighted to show my Foxhounds off lead at Cruft's or any other 'showing' show for that matter as they are very good off lead.
The trouble is you have still failed to answer the basic question, which is if the hounds are not shown off lead then how can the judges possibly assess them properly. I wasn't questioning the obedience of the hounds you breed but more how you can possibly select the winner of a hound class without seeing that it moves freely and easily off couples. As I have said before the main difference between shows for hunting hounds and shows for pet hounds is that ours are compulsorily shown off their couples to show their actions and conformation at movement as well as stationary on the flags.

You have also ignored Herne's question about safeguarding the foxhound breed after the disasters the breed standards have wreaked on the basset hound and the labrador.

Finally you have also ignored my question of how hunting folk can have faith in an organisation which doesn't feel it can display photos of a breed doing what they were bred to do at their national showcase exhibition.
 
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