Foxhounds at Crufts

[Maesfen]

TBF, up until the 90's at least, a lot of Border Terrier folk, even those that were into showing, enjoyed their hunting and not just from a working terrier POV. Peggy Grayson for one was excellent and a prize from her meant a lot, she knew how breeds should be built to withstand the work it should do as well as look good.

Whatever breed, there can be nothing more satisfying than to watch as a breed doing well at what it was originally bred for; nothing beats it IMV and foxhounds weren't bred to be in a show ring.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Firstly Basset hounds are nothing to do with me at all.

The KC has many people who are greatly interested and have much knowledge on the subject of foxhounds.

Lastly, I really cannot imagine where the general public get the idea that the hunting fraternity is in some cases unpleasant with people that are arrogant, old fashioned and anal.

Do you REALLY have to be so unpleasant,anal is not a nice word to use-everyone is allowed their own opinions even if they dont agree with yours-

 

[Maesfen]

Firstly Basset hounds are nothing to do with me at all.

Is it rude of me to think 'thank goodness for that'?


The KC has many people who are greatly interested and have much knowledge on the subject of foxhounds.

Would love to know exactly who you are talking about

Lastly, I really cannot imagine where the general public get the idea that the hunting fraternity is in some cases unpleasant with people that are arrogant, old fashioned and anal.

Sarcasm really is the lowest form of wit and won't enamour you to anyone, sorry.

 

[EAST KENT]

Ah, but then D is used to lots of oohs and aahs from KC dog people who know nothing about what a good hound should look like...and then along come us hardened old hunting folk!
We are somewhat harder to impress

 

[Alec Swan]

Firstly Basset hounds are nothing to do with me at all.

The KC has many people who are greatly interested and have much knowledge on the subject of foxhounds.

Lastly, I really cannot imagine where the general public get the idea that the hunting fraternity is in some cases unpleasant with people that are arrogant, old fashioned and anal.

Para 1. The point, which you may have missed, was that the Bassets were offered as an example of the appalling damage done to just about any breed which is shown under the auspices of the Kennel Club. Are you prepared for the Foxhound to follow them? Presumably, your answer will be a resounding NO, and I'd be interested to hear just how you would prevent such.

Para 2. From your previous statements, it would seem that this wasn't the case, so presumably you've managed to educate them. That in itself would be some achievement!

Para 3. I've read just about every post on here, and I'm sorry to tell you that by far the rudest posts have come from you, and your supporters. By and large, those who contribute to the Hunting section, manage to conduct themselves in a civilised fashion. Debates become heated, on occasions, but I've yet to hear the word "anal" used. Well done.
——————————————

If you are passionate about Hounds, then you're in good company. Many of those who've contributed to this thread, are as passionate as you. How I would love to keep 3 or 4 couples for my own entertainment. It would be wrong for me to do so.

I've asked you a variety of questions, as this thread has wearily dragged on, which you've failed to answer. I will repeat them. If you are to show your hounds at Crufts, then presumably you breed a few litters annually. Could you tell me what you do with those pups which you feel are not up to show standard?

If you produce puppies on a non-commercial basis, I'd be surprised to hear that you keep them all. Are they sold off to pet homes, or do your local pack take them?

If you've reached the heady heights of Crufts (sic), then presumably there are others who compete against you. Am I right? I'd be interested to hear where they've sourced their stock from.

I've read through your website, and it would seem that it hasn't been updated for nearly 3 years. I agree, without question, that your hounds look to be very attractive, and they look very "well"!!

There are those who've joined in with this debate, who live their lives with hounds. I'm not amongst them, but would join them in having serious doubts about the wisdom of releasing Foxhounds on to an unsuspecting, and inexperienced public, and if you are to avoid the embarrassment of the hollow victories, then presumably you will need others, against whom you can compete.

Someone else said that they felt that you were doing the Foxhound a grave disservice. I'd qualify that, but saying that it is a risk, with almost inevitable consequences. Go back and view the appalling pictures, offered I think by Herne, of the Bassets, and then explain how you will prevent this, from happening to the Foxhound.

Alec.

 

[EAST KENT]

Apart from the appalling changes that the KC types may bring about ,it is the "life" that an awful lot of showdogs lead that worries me.I am not for one minute sugesting that D`s hounds have anything but a good..if unforfilled..life,but consider how puppies sold to other exhibitors might fare.
A lot of "showdogs" live in crates,alone;they are exercised ,if the breed demands it, on treadmills,so no mental stimulation in their lives whatsoever.
It is any dog`s right to "be a dog", belt around ,scent,hunt, toss sticks and roll in rubbish; the majority of show dogs don`t have that essential right to their lives. Most are fed convenient dry pellets,so the contentment endorphins presumably are never released. That,in some breeds,can lead to mental problems and it certainly would in a foxhound.
Years ago I remember,when judging in Californis, a chap with American Foxhounds.....he could NEVER let them off the lead! That is not a life for a hound.

 

[Alec Swan]

Am I the only one, who thinks it rather strange, that having asked questions, of those who would use the Kennel Club, and as a route to promote hounds, then those questions, appear to have been ignored?

Alec.

 

[Maesfen]

No Alec, you're not alone.

 

[glamourstar]

Am I the only one, who thinks it rather strange, that having asked questions, of those who would use the Kennel Club, and as a route to promote hounds, then those questions, appear to have been ignored?

Alec.

What do u mean? Who is ignoring who?

 

[rosie fronfelen]

He is OBVIOUSLY referring to Dazzleby who seems to have gone off air-

 

[glamourstar]

He is OBVIOUSLY referring to Dazzleby who seems to have gone off air-

Oh right....I OBVIOULSY had a thick moment !. Tbh though, I'm not surprised that she has gone off air after all this. I wouldnt hang around to be slated....I guess people have to accept that different people are going to have different views on this.

 

[EAST KENT]

Lets face it,showing anything is an ego trip and a competitive urge.Why promote a breed unsuitable as a Joe Bloggs pet ?
Been showing for years and years,and watch with a jaundiced eye those "promoting" newly imported "rare" breeds.No competition, easy wins is the only answer.
Wonder if I am in for a personal ear bashing at the next Champ show that has Foxhounds and Mini Bull Terriers on the same day!

 

[mad4foxhounds]

The stimulation of a foxhound owned as a pet is very much like many other breeds that I personally think require certain home environment.
I have many foxhounds over the years, I compete in agility and obedience with my hounds, and I also work my guys hunting the clean boot,
none of my older foxhounds are Fat- I have had three tattooed ex pack hounds all with joint problem because of their active youth, all have settled with no problems to indoor life in front of the fire, their activity being lesser than when they were younger, these too were not FAT, they were 11 13 and 15 years old. so I personally don’t think blaming the hound, for not being able to go out on HARD exercise is a load of C***
An carer or owner is normally to blame, where I work over 95% of over weight pets is due to owners not feeding them the required amount.

I believe you are continuing to have a go at us, because you are in shock or jealously in what we do with our hounds and the fact we DO have the backing of the MFHA and masters/huntmans alike. And you fear the unknown.
at least if your picking on us you are leaving someone else alone.

As for naming and shaming the packs,
why would I put that information to people like you alec swan who would more than likely just shag them off on a forum somewhere, when the true people we need to tell already know about it.
Next time you are around packs of hounds ask the kennel staff or huntsman-
where they draft hounds too, ask them if they know which hunt owns them now, do they know if they are still alive? or been killed/shot or other.
I will be pleasantly surprised if they know and can answer you and if they even care.

so please stop having ago at those of us who DO care so much about the breed to value where the hounds are placed.
this post was not set up for slagging off people who clearly love their breed and want to ensure that the breed is able to be viewed for generations to come, before you start (blablabling- dazzleby uses hounds from hunt stock that most on here would only dream about getting their hands on for their hunt kennels.- Duke of beaufort and north staffs and the heythrop to name but a few,)

I wouldn’t blame dazzleby for not posting on this forum again as it has turned into a witch hunt, the questions asked when the page was set up foxhound at crufts have been answered. and people reading this page can see we have offered to try and shed more information on the subject, to be upcasted and slagged off so why should she bother trying to help and educate those who are unwilling to open their mind a little more to something that is different.

Hardened old hunting fork! we don’t need to impress those like you who are blinkered and set in the ways and don’t like change.
but small point to make how come when Ive been to shows wit my foxhounds I have had people older then you come up and ask about my hounds and willing to listen when I talk about my hounds, these people- huntsman whips and masters of hunts from the north- midlands and even the south, and as I recall crufts the last 5 years has had masters viewing the foxhound judging and making pleasant comments about the working type of dazzleby’s foxhounds.
my final point is to EAST KENT is any breed truly suitable for the “Joe Bloggs”
I do not believe that such breed is available, if so our rescue shelters would not be full to boiling point of dogs. Owning or what ever you do with you min bull terriers you should truly know that.

this is my last post as sadly I feel it is pointless tiring my self out over people on this forum who lead shelter lives and are not willing anyone else with a different point of view have a say,
for those interested in learning more or are just willing to think out side the box, or those that want to see happy healthy rescue/expack foxhounds enjoying their lives please feel free to visit our breed welfare site – http//foxhoundwelfareuk.jimdo.com
or my own website www.madaboutfoxhounds.org.uk.

happy hounding-

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Thank you M4FH and Dazzleby for coming on here to enlighten us about your hounds. It was really interesting, unfortunately, you weren't to know that the hunting section of this forum is generally only frequented by a handful of posters who have only themselves to talk to, as rational debate seldom happens here and most of us can't be bothered with it.

Less extreme hunting and riding horsefolk tend to stick to other areas of the forum.
Sorry you guys had such an unfortunate introduction to HHO.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Oh,just get over yourselves the 3 of you,everyone has their own opinions on hounds and the work they do,some packs, certainly ours go back 400 years so that is dedication and years ago this keeping of hounds as pets would never have occurred,it is not a case of leading sheltered lives, acomment i find deeply offensive,its a case of leading different lives.

 

[JanetGeorge]

none of my older foxhounds are Fat-

.....

so I personally don’t think blaming the hound, for not being able to go out on HARD exercise is a load of C***
An carer or owner is normally to blame, where I work over 95% of over weight pets is due to owners not feeding them the required amount.

[.quote]

Another new member shooting her mouth off about something she knows nothing about. My rescue Foxhound x Lab is NOT pure foxhound - she is a Lab cross - so hybrid vigour for greed. She couldn't get fat on what she is fed - she thieves! She even goes around the yearlings' fields stealing stud balancer from right under their noses!

She's had 9 good years with me in the best of health - but has just been diagnosed with kidney failure so I'll be bidding her a very sad farewell in a week or two and I DON'T need to apologise to anyone for the love and care she's had since I've had her.

this is my last post as sadly I feel it is pointless tiring my self out over people on this forum who lead shelter lives and are not willing anyone else with a different point of view have a say,

Pot, kettle, black - Goodbye!

 

[EAST KENT]

Personally I cannot think of ANY MFH or Huntsman who could be dragged kicking and screaming to any Champ Dog Show. Oh,one exception Harley Godsell who was huntsman for 25 years with the (I think) North Herefordshire,he very rarely, but sometimes ,accompanied his wife Dawn who breeds bull terriers. Harley retired last year.
It is a different world ,leave hounds to hunting people please.

 

[Dazzleby]

Some of you hardened hunters seem to be missing the point. You asked me how my beautiful Cruft's winning Best of Breed Dazzleby Dandelion was bred. I told you, by Duke of Beaufort's Milton.
Probably came as something of a surprise, but I do actually like to use a classy stallion hound on my bitches. I am very fussy about correct type, temperament, health and I want something that's biddable. I have certainly succeeded on all counts.

I stated quite clearly from the outset that I am firm supporter of the Foxhound and Foxhunting, and I am extremely knowledgeable on all aspects.

After I had walked my first hound, I was asked again and again, and moved on to being asked to whelp bitches and walk entire litters.

When I purchased a Foxhound bitch it was seen at an agricultural show, where the huntsman after a short conversation asked ME if I would be willing to use her for breeding and I was promised the pick of the pack. The rest as they say is history, but to those who do not know, with a team of the resultant progeny in 2004 I went all over the UK showing off my beautiful hounds winning against ALL BREEDS and it culmanated in my team Winning the Breeder Stakes at CRUFTS. I was delighted that the general public had had a very got chance to see the FOXHOUND up close and to see what a talented hound it really is. A long way from how many people perceive it to be.

It may interest the forum to know that there are a number of private breeders of Foxhounds in the UK. I do not endorse any of them, and they are NOTHING to do with me at all. What private individuals do is for them to decide.

Regarding Cruft's, I always like to take a good big team there, as the public love to see MY hounds, and come back each year to cheer them on. If other people choose not to enter against me, that is their decision, perhaps they don't want to waste the £22 per entry.

There are only 2 people in this country who are capable of producing good all round , fit healthy, happy Foxhounds that are capable of showing , agility and obedience and who really know their subject. I am of course refering to myself and Jackie. We are both able to rehabilitate Foxhounds that have suffered sometimes terrible abuse.

It may also be of interest to the 'knockers' that one of my foxhounds is owned by a UK huntsman and lives in his house and hunts with the pack. This man is very supportive of my work with hounds and comes to watch us showing.
I have numerous requests from huntsman ' have I any spare bitches' the answer is no.
I have been asked by a Huntsman for my 'secrets of how to get hounds showing so well'.
One of my Foxhounds has been used extensively in one pack and it has got back to me that he is the best hound they have ever had.

To the people who choose to slag me off, just remember I SUPPORT FOXHOUNDS and wish to promote them. Are you promoting them? Have our spokes people done a good job promoting Foxhounds in the past?

The answer to that is clear NO YOU HAVE NOT.

 

[combat_claire]

I think my question got lost in the melee. My major concern is that I believe (happy to be corrected) that hounds at Crufts are not shown loose in any phase of the judging. If that is the case then how can the correct breed standard be judged. The specialist hound shows that are only open to hunting hounds from recognised packs always insist that the hound is shown on couples and then has to demonstrate its movement off the lead.

I would also add that given the furore in the shooting world following serious problems with the breed standards for retrievers and similar working gun dogs the concerns being raised by hunting folk on here are entirely legitimate.

On a completely unrelated point I wonder if you have any views on the showing of docked breeds (I know hounds are not docked), the recent legislation on tail docking forbids the showing of animals docked since the law was changed. Yet most true working examples of the breed will be docked. Do you as a professional breeder feel this is a complete contradiction??

 

[JanetGeorge]

Some of you hardened hunters seem to be missing the point. You asked me how my beautiful Cruft's winning Best of Breed Dazzleby Dandelion was bred. I told you, by Duke of Beaufort's Milton.

Mmm - and was DoB's Milton part of the Beaufort pack at the time he was used to produce 'pet' foxhounds?? I suspect not! I somehow can't see the current Duke, Ian Farquhar or Martin Scott agreeing to it - and the 10th Duke would be turning in his grave at the thought!

 

[Dazzleby]

Ms George, do you realise that this thread has had nearly 3,500 views?

How interesting it has become, with insults being hurled in my direction.

I clearly state that I am a Supporter of Foxhounds and Hunting.

Is this the way you treat supporters?

In answer to your question Ms George regarding The Duke of Beaufort. Yes, he is well aware that I have used his hound as is Martin Scott...... I expect they find it amusing that a mere slip of a girl is so competent with hounds, and puts them to such varied uses.

Believe in a Foxhound and it will succeed!!

 

[JanetGeorge]

Ms George, do you realise that this thread has had nearly 3,500 views?

How interesting it has become, with insults being hurled in my direction.

I think most people will have noticed you've given at least as many 'insults' as you've received

I clearly state that I am a Supporter of Foxhounds and Hunting.

Is this the way you treat supporters?

Having spent number of years trying to clean up PR 'messes' made by hunt 'supporters', I've learnt that the fact that someone claims to be a 'supporter' of foxhunting does NOT mean they are at ALL helpful to the cause!

In answer to your question Ms George regarding The Duke of Beaufort. Yes, he is well aware that I have used his hound as is Martin Scott...... I expect they find it amusing that a mere slip of a girl is so competent with hounds, and puts them to such varied uses.

Mmm - I suspect they find something in the situation amusing (not so sure what!) But you don't actually answer the questions I asked!

 

[Alec Swan]

.......I believe you are continuing to have a go at us, because you are in shock or jealously in what we do with our hounds and the fact we DO have the backing of the MFHA and masters/huntmans alike. And you fear the unknown.......

........I wouldn’t blame dazzleby for not posting on this forum again as it has turned into a witch hunt, the questions asked when the page was set up foxhound at crufts have been answered.

-

You really haven't understood a word of the previous posters, have you? In shock? Certainly, shocked that any Master would allow his hounds to be overseen by the most damaging influence inflicted on any canine, The Kennel Club.

If you have the backing of the MFHA, Masters or kennel huntsmen, then I would be staggered. I will contact the MFHA, and see if I can ascertain exactly where they stand on this.

The claim that those who believe you to be wrong, are simply jealous, does little to recommend you.

As for your claim that the questions have been answered, I would point out to you that I have twice asked the same questions, and have yet to see a reply.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

On a completely unrelated point I wonder if you have any views on the showing of docked breeds (I know hounds are not docked), the recent legislation on tail docking forbids the showing of animals docked since the law was changed. Yet most true working examples of the breed will be docked. Do you as a professional breeder feel this is a complete contradiction??

An interesting point, though possibly one for another thread. One question, if the law has changed, then how can it have done so, whilst docking is still permitted, providing that you can find a vet to carry out the operation?

A contradiction? Most certainly, but then the show bench have never had any interest in the purpose for which any dog was bred. I have a legitimate and deeply embedded loathing of the Kennel Club, and the damage which they've done, and best of all, continue to do!!

Alec.

 

[JanetGeorge]

If you have the backing of the MFHA, Masters or kennel huntsmen, then I would be staggered. I will contact the MFHA, and see if I can ascertain exactly where they stand on this.

I would LOVE to see Alastair's face when you ask him if the MFHA backs the breeding of pet foxhounds! But I hope you'll make sure he's sitting down when you ask!

 

[Alec Swan]

.......To the people who choose to slag me off,.

Nobody, Dazzleby, has "slagged you off". There are those, and I'm amongst them, who don't agree with what you are doing. That's an entirely different matter.

When there are those who don't agree with your stance, in life, and they tell you so, then if you can look beyond the comments, you may well see that they actually have your best interests at heart.

Any new idea should be open to scrutiny, and though I may be wrong, I suspect that as doubts have been raised, it may well be that you are starting to consider the realities of what you are doing.

If you would care to cast your thoughts back to post 95, mine, and then tell me how you see your future plans for foxhounds, then I'd be interested to read your response.

Alec.

ets, this is becoming a Paxman interview!! a

 

[Maesfen]

The mind boggles, better make sure he has a stiff drink too!

JG, be a love and muck out your PMs please, nothing can get through.

 

[EAST KENT]

I would LOVE to see Alastair's face when you ask him if the MFHA backs the breeding of pet foxhounds! But I hope you'll make sure he's sitting down when you ask!

God! As for our old huntsman Richard Blakeney..I can just see him turning purple now!! I have a foot in both camps,but very much think hounds should NEVER be degraded by being trolled around cur dog shows for hollow victories.
I think D that we really are owed the names of these hunting people who have helped you create pet foxhounds,if indeed they exist.
The Exmoor pack might be a good direction to go..very classy,fast and superb noses,see what they say.

 

[JanetGeorge]

The mind boggles, better make sure he has a stiff drink too!

JG, be a love and muck out your PMs please, nothing can get through.

Or two!

Mucking out completed (the price of being popular!)

 

[Maesfen]

Ta!