Full livery expectations

[EJP15]

Until 2 years ago I always had sole use with all year turn out as I looked after my land (stabled too but not 24/7) and freelance livery. Unfortunately after finally sticking up for myself to my landlord of nearly 4 years she kicked me off. Wish I'd just kept being her doormat. Previous to that had a rented small holding with my abusive ex husband.

Horses are meant to be my therapy lol Unfortunately so many yards are being sold/closed where I live and finding a place for 2 geldings with particular requirements isn't an easy task.

Thank you for you reply xx

 

[EJP15]

I pay £25 a day to the yard for feeding x2, turn out, catch in, rug change each time, muck out, do hay and water, wash feet if required. Grooming isn't included but she does sometimes seem to have had her feet picked. Luckily I only need that once a week!

Thats a good price as going it x2

 

[Denali]

As a groom I always charged by the week. This was standard even in the UK as I found the majority of my jobs off yard and groom.

My charge would be dependent on what the owner wanted. You are being taking for a ride. £600 a month (roughly) I would expect blanket changes, feeding, hoof picking, and a look over.

 

[EJP15]

As a groom I always charged by the week. This was standard even in the UK as I found the majority of my jobs off yard and groom.

My charge would be dependent on what the owner wanted. You are being taking for a ride. £600 a month (roughly) I would expect blanket changes, feeding, hoof picking, and a look over.

I do sometimes ask her to do livery last minute though in her defence. I'm paying £40 a day 4/5 times a week and pay extra for lunging, free schooling, washing legs, doing feet x

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I pay £15 per hour for my freelancers who don't really handle the horses, and £20 for those who do.

That means that for £15, I will have 2-3 horses skipped out or fields poo picked, given their feeds, and water checked. My buckets are always washed, and my yard and tack room are given a quick sweep and tidy. This takes an hour for up to 3 horses. I don't let these freelancers turn out, pick feet or change rugs unsupervised because, whilst they are insured, they aren't as confident handling horses and I'm very careful with mine.

For the freelancers who handle the horses, they will skip out, prep feed and give feed, pick out feet and apply any treatments etc, change rugs and turn the horses out. This takes about an hour in the morning.

They would then come back in the afternoon and ride or lunge alternating horses on different days or 20 min each. Afterwards they will prep boxes with fresh water and hay, and give the yard a quick tidy so I don't walk into mess. I also expect tack to be wiped down after use and bits to be rinsed, horses legs to be rinsed if muddy, manes and tails to be combed if knotty, and any large poo stains or mud marks to be removed. This takes them about an hour and a half.

So I'm paying for 2.5 hours of work, at £20 per hour, across all my horses not per horse. And I'm getting a full service.

There are some perks to what I offer, in that they can ride two lovely horses whenever they like in addition to the paid exercise that I cover, and they can take them hacking or I'll happily pay for lessons with our pros, so they get their time paid and their coaching paid. Also the environment is pleasant, and they get to use the house as they like for tea and coffee, and I always have snacks.

But that's an awful lot more than you're getting, for very similar money...

 

[Denali]

I do sometimes ask her to do livery last minute though in her defence. I'm paying £40 a day 4/5 times a week and pay extra for lunging, free schooling, washing legs, doing feet x

My suggestion is sort out per week or per month that would incorporate the extras. So if I was in her position with my credentials I would ask £1000 a month to do whatever.

Lunging, schooling, washing legs, yeah you’re asking a lot from someone with the skill set to do that. Horse owners love to think that labor isn’t worth the price because they could do it themselves but they are also the ones paying for us to do it.

I say this as a former groom, barn owner, and horse owner. You will pay a premium for people to take care of your horses as if they are their own. If you don’t want to pay for the level of care you expect, be willing to provide that care.

Horse people are worth their weight in gold. The pay should reflect that and why you can’t do those things.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

My suggestion is sort out per week or per month that would incorporate the extras. So if I was in her position with my credentials I would ask £1000 a month to do whatever.

Lunging, schooling, washing legs, yeah you’re asking a lot from someone with the skill set to do that. Horse owners love to think that labor isn’t worth the price because they could do it themselves but they are also the ones paying for us to do it.

I say this as a former groom, barn owner, and horse owner. You will pay a premium for people to take care of your horses as if they are their own. If you don’t want to pay for the level of care you expect, be willing to provide that care.

Horse people are worth their weight in gold. The pay should reflect that and why you can’t do those things.

Mine being £50 a day, and using an average of 21 working days, that's over £1000 a month so I would agree with that figure.

I think the issue the OP has is hers must be £40 a day, so not far off, albeit for fewer days, and she's not getting nearly the kind of service I would expect for 'full livery'.

 

[Denali]

Mine being £50 a day, and using an average of 21 working days, that's over £1000 a month so I would agree with that figure.

I think the issue the OP has is hers must be £40 a day, so not far off, albeit for fewer days, and she's not getting nearly the kind of service I would expect for 'full livery'.

But OP admitted she calls last minute. That in and of itself adds to the premium.

Lady G I would happily take care of your farm while I work day job! Kidding but sorta not…. Cuz figgy and mittens are amazing

 

[EJP15]

Mine being £50 a day, and using an average of 21 working days, that's over £1000 a month so I would agree with that figure.

I think the issue the OP has is hers must be £40 a day, so not far off, albeit for fewer days, and she's not getting nearly the kind of service I would expect for 'full livery'.

I appreciate the hard work that goes into it. If the stables were immaculate and place left clean, water buckets washed etc I'd feel £40 was a bargain but the jobs aren't done like this.

I just wanted to check I wasn't being fussy or expecting too much. If it was me doing full livery and charging £20 I'd be doing it with pride. That said I've worked all my life until too unwell to do so. Shes not actually had a job since leaving School

 

[EJP15]

But OP admitted she calls last minute. That in and of itself adds to the premium.

Lady G, I would happily take care of your farm while I work day job! Kidding but sorta not…. Cuz figgy and mittens are amazing

Last minute may be once a week and she is going down to do her horse anyway, btw. Of course, then it's fine. I'm paying £40 but she's not cleaning up, mucking out thoroughly, etc, on the majority of the days she does for me. Ps we are "friends"
She isn't going especially to do my horses

 

[Denali]

I appreciate the hard work that goes into it. If the stables were immaculate and place left clean, water buckets washed etc I'd feel £40 was a bargain but the jobs aren't done like this.

I just wanted to check I wasn't being fussy or expecting too much. If it was me doing full livery and charging £20 I'd be doing it with pride. That said I've worked all my life until too unwell to do so. Shes not actually had a job since leaving School

You’re paying for something you yourself won’t/can’t do. You need to pay a premium for that. Sorry but I will never get on board with a horse/yard owner expecting top tier work for entry level pay.

 

[EJP15]

You’re paying for something you yourself won’t/can’t do. You need to pay a premium for that.

I'm disabled so can't do as many days and I'm also a single mum to a disabled child. Free lance for what she charges £40/55 a day is about £30 in my area for people thar do it professionally. This is just another livery who does it for extra cash as she hasn't got a job

 

[EJP15]

You’re paying for something you yourself won’t/can’t do. You need to pay a premium for that. Sorry but I will never get on board with a horse/yard owner expecting top tier work for entry level pay.fpt

I pay £15 per hour for my freelancers who don't really handle the horses, and £20 for those who do.

That means that for £15, I will have 2-3 horses skipped out or fields poo picked, given their feeds, and water checked. My buckets are always washed, and my yard and tack room are given a quick sweep and tidy. This takes an hour for up to 3 horses. I don't let these freelancers turn out, pick feet or change rugs unsupervised because, whilst they are insured, they aren't as confident handling horses and I'm very careful with mine.

For the freelancers who handle the horses, they will skip out, prep feed and give feed, pick out feet and apply any treatments etc, change rugs and turn the horses out. This takes about an hour in the morning.

They would then come back in the afternoon and ride or lunge alternating horses on different days or 20 min each. Afterwards they will prep boxes with fresh water and hay, and give the yard a quick tidy so I don't walk into mess. I also expect tack to be wiped down after use and bits to be rinsed, horses legs to be rinsed if muddy, manes and tails to be combed if knotty, and any large poo stains or mud marks to be removed. This takes them about an hour and a half.

So I'm paying for 2.5 hours of work, at £20 per hour, across all my horses not per horse. And I'm getting a full service.

There are some perks to what I offer, in that they can ride two lovely horses whenever they like in addition to the paid exercise that I cover, and they can take them hacking or I'll happily pay for lessons with our pros, so they get their time paid and their coaching paid. Also the environment is pleasant, and they get to use the house as they like for tea and coffee, and I always have snacks.

But that's an awful lot more than you're getting, for very similar money...

Often my wheelbarrow isn't even emptied

 

[EJP15]

I'm disabled so can't do as many days and I'm also a single mum to a disabled child. Free lance for what she charges £40/55 a day is about £30 in my area for people thar do it professionally. This is just another livery who does it for extra cash as she hasn't got a job

Excuse typos it's getting late

 

[Denali]

Last minute may be once a week and she is going down to do her horse anyway, btw. Of course, then it's fine. I'm paying £40 but she's not cleaning up, mucking out thoroughly, etc, on the majority of the days she does for me. Ps we are "friends"
She isn't going especially to do my horses

It doesn’t matter if it’s convient for her or not. Once a week? Oh hell no I’d charge a service call for that. No one is friends in a business transaction.

You’re unhappy with how she does the stalls while expecting random “I need this” once a week? Pay for a pro or do it yourself. A pro will cost you more. Based on your comments I’d charge £1200. £200 more than I originally said because I I’ll earn that just dealing with you.

 

[EJP15]

It doesn’t matter if it’s convient for her or not. Once a week? Oh hell no I’d charge a service call for that. No one is friends in a business transaction.

You’re unhappy with how she does the stalls while expecting random “I need this” once a week? Pay for a pro or do it yourself. A pro will cost you more. Based on your comments I’d charge £1200. £200 more than I originally said because I I’ll earn that just dealing with you.

No she does at least 4 days a week but 1 might be last minute

 

[Denali]

No she does at least 4 days a week but 1 might be last minute

Doesn’t matter. I was at a self service barn for a while and I quickly realized if I wanted to actually ride and enjoy my horse I needed to move to full service.

You are cutting into her riding time. You are asking for her time. That comes at a price. If you don’t think she’s worth the money you are paying then you need to figure that out. Once a week last minute can you? Things are a big deal for people who work and are a really big deal for full service barn workers. I don’t think you understand what you are asking.

 

[EJP15]

It doesn’t matter if it’s convient for her or not. Once a week? Oh hell no I’d charge a service call for that. No one is friends in a business transaction.

You’re unhappy with how she does the stalls while expecting random “I need this” once a week? Pay for a pro or do it yourself. A pro will cost you more. Based on your comments I’d charge £1200. £200 more than I originally said because I I’ll earn that just dealing with you.

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick. Out of the 4/5 days a week one might be last minute but if she can't do it then I find alternatives. It's due to my disability and my disabled son the times it's last minute. If I use someone else to do livery and don't run it by her first or just suggest I might need someone else as I might struggle to pay her amount I'm told by her I can't do that.

She physically tells me I can't use anyone else as she's always done my livery.

In the area we live insured freelance grooms would charge me less than what she charges and they are paying tax etc this is cash in hand work.

 

[EJP15]

Doesn’t matter. I was at a self service barn for a while and I quickly realized if I wanted to actually ride and enjoy my horse I needed to move to full service.

You are cutting into her riding time. You are asking for her time. That comes at a price. If you don’t think she’s worth the money you are paying then you need to figure that out. Once a week last minute can you? Things are a big deal for people who work and are a really big deal for full service barn workers. I don’t think you understand what you are asking.

I don't use her once a week, I use her 4/5 times a week and she's told me I can't use anyone else

 

[EJP15]

Doesn’t matter. I was at a self service barn for a while and I quickly realized if I wanted to actually ride and enjoy my horse I needed to move to full service.

You are cutting into her riding time. You are asking for her time. That comes at a price. If you don’t think she’s worth the money you are paying then you need to figure that out. Once a week last minute can you? Things are a big deal for people who work and are a really big deal for full service barn workers. I don’t think you understand what you are asking.

She's never had a job since leaving school, this isn't her actual job. This is pocket money. Are you in the UK?

 

[Denali]

She's never had a job since leaving school, this isn't her actual job. This is pocket money. Are you in the UK?

It doesn’t matter. You are asking something that you are unwilling or can’t do. Pay these people appropriately.

 

[Cowpony]

Thats a good price as going it x2

Sorry, it's feeding x2, as in twice a day. Only one horse.

 

[EJP15]

Doesn’t matter. I was at a self service barn for a while and I quickly realized if I wanted to actually ride and enjoy my horse I needed to move to full service.

You are cutting into her riding time. You are asking for her time. That comes at a price. If you don’t think she’s worth the money you are paying then you need to figure that out. Once a week last minute can you? Things are a big deal for people who work and are a really big deal for full service barn workers. I don’t think you understand what you are asking.

I don't think you are reading my responses?

Ps I help her with her horses for free btw and let her use my wheelbarrows, medical kit, supplements even horses for FREE. Not that any of that matters but just thought I'd add more to the situation

 

[EJP15]

It doesn’t matter. You are asking something that you are unwilling or can’t do. Pay these people appropriately.

I do pay her appropriately? I pay her £40 a day to come once muck out and feed. That's more than what freelance, insured grooms charge in my area. I pay it but now she's adding on extra and not cleaning up after herself, not doing jobs properly and also told me I can't use anyone else.

 

[EJP15]

I don't think you are reading my responses?

Ps I help her with her horses for free btw and let her use my wheelbarrows, medical kit, supplements even horses for FREE. Not that any of that matters but just thought I'd add more to the situation

I mean use my stuff for her horses as she hasn't got all the stuff for example. I'd be over the moon with £40 cash in hand for less than 2 hours work

 

[EJP15]

Sorry, it's feeding x2, as in twice a day. Only one horse.

Is it done well? I think this is where it's getting me down because nothing is done well, my stuff isn't looked after, if they are on full livery a week and I turn up when I'm well their beds need completely gutting, feed buckets, water bowls etc are filthy, my barrows aren't emptied. I can't find someone else as she's gone mad when I did as I was struggling to pay her what she asks. £40 for a 1x visit for 2 horses muck out and feed isn't what actual free lance insured professional grooms charge in my area. They charge 25/£30 although I've always paid more as I don't like taking advantage of people

 

[EJP15]

Mine being £50 a day, and using an average of 21 working days, that's over £1000 a month so I would agree with that figure.

I think the issue the OP has is hers must be £40 a day, so not far off, albeit for fewer days, and she's not getting nearly the kind of service I would expect for 'full livery'.

Exactly this. thank you x

 

[EJP15]

Sorry, it's feeding x2, as in twice a day. Only one horse.

If it's done well then that's good, like how thoroughly are your beds done? I have to remove most of my bed if she's done them as it's more like a skip out x

 

[EJP15]

[Deleted quoted content removed]

She isn't my employee. She actually won't let me get anyone else. She's just another livery. I'm just asking for advice and what to expect for the money I pay from people who have similar help. I don't even want her to do my horses but she's told me I can't get anyone else!

 

[EJP15]

[Deleted quoted content removed]

I'm "her friend" that covers her horses bills and let's bet use my stuff like it's her own stuff.