Full livery expectations

so the YO also thinks this person is being unreasonnable. I would stop using her, you don't have to move yard, get the 16 years old or a pro in to do the work. It doesn't matter if she has a go at you, it's your money and you don't have to give it to her if you don't want to. Don't worry about the other liveries, it will settle after a bit.
 
Ask if she declares the increase in payment as you wouldn't want to be involved with breaking the law..😉
Cash in hand...is it too obvious about where I would report her?

Could you write out a contract of what you expect her to do, including empty wheelbarrow etc, ask how much she would charge per day, agree a price and then if things aren't done she has breached it. Evidence, if you are worried what the other liveries think of you, that you have been fair. Also make the YO aware that if your area is messy it is not your fault and could she speak directly to the person to tidy it up.
 
I would look at the whole picture, if I were you OP.

You have to take taxis to get there, your horses aren't getting acceptable turn out, your yard owner isn't stepping up to ensure that, this freelance person isn't providing the service you need, you will struggle socially at the yard if you change things, and you aren't getting to the horses yourself because you have health and caring issues which are preventing that.

I would go back to the drawing board.

The number one most important thing is that the horses are having their needs met, and that needs to exceed any consideration for one's personal mental health/ using horses as a form of therapy. Plus, all this added stress completely undermines the horses as therapy idea.

I'd look for:

- Full care retirement livery where you can visit. These are usually less expensive than livery yards so if there is additional cost in travel, it should off-set.

Or

- Full livery at a proper, professionally run yard. We are in a very expensive area and costs per horses are between £850 and £1250 here, so not miles off what you are paying already.

Or

- Short term loaning horses until you can get yourself into an area with a set up that works for you.

Or

- Loaning, selling, rehoming horses more permanently and then sharing a horse yourself, to get your horsey fix.

Or

- Renting somewhere closer to you and setting it up to your requirements from scratch, but accepting that this comes with enormous cost and no guarantees because getting reliable staff is incredibly difficult. I manage it by having a number of back up freelancers on top of my regulars, and one very good freelance yard manager and rider who runs things for me.

It isn't remotely acceptable for you to worry about feeding yourself and your child, because you have horses which cost you £2k a month.

It may be that you earn / have a decent amount of money but even in my situation, where I'm comfortably off and don't have your added stresses of health and caring issues, I wouldn't be happy to pay £2k a month for keeping horses where the horse's needs aren't being met, and I wasn't happy either.

That's a fair chunk of cash whatever one's personal financial circumstances and I'd expect that to be enough to run a horse or two properly. If it isn't, then it's not the money that is the problem, it's the circumstances you're working with.

It's incredibly sad, very frustrating and not fair, but some circumstances cannot be changed, and then you need to consider whether it's fair to subject animals to them. I'd work out where those lines are and take drastic but necessary steps against those realities.
 
Thank you to all your replies. Turn out starts next weekend. So I've got time to play with and look for alternative arrangements. I have actually recently got a sharer in hope she can take some of the jobs on and also benefit the horses lives. Just so add that this yard is by far than most around it in terms of turn out. There's many here than don't even have 24/7 turnout in Summer! Crazy x
 
EJP15 said:
Thank you to all your replies. Turn out starts next weekend. So I've got time to play with and look for alternative arrangements. I have actually recently got a sharer in hope she can take some of the jobs on and also benefit the horses lives. Just so add that this yard is by far than most around it in terms of turn out. There's many here than don't even have 24/7 turnout in Summer! Crazy x
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To*

Excuse all my typos
 
I think you need to find a proper full livery yard. This sounds like primarily a DIY yard not set up to do services with professional grooms who are skilled enough to do things quickly and to a high standard. I am on a part livery yard and the skilled grooms are so quick at what they do. Is your friend doing a full muck out as that will take longer? Ours on deep litter so they are skipped out and beds tidied in the mornings. The beds are immaculate and they are done very quickly. New bedding topped up once a week. Turn out and catch in they take 2 horses at a time.

I am in the most expensive part of the UK London. I have seen yards advertising full livery with exercise three times a week for £1200 per month including turn out catch in, hay, bedding, feed, hold for farrier, vets, muck out.

It also sounds like you only use your friends services in the winter as the horses live out part of the year? This means there is no regular income for your friend and possibly might be why she needs to charge what she does to make it worthwhile offering her services.
 
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EJP15 said:
Thank you to all your replies. Turn out starts next weekend. So I've got time to play with and look for alternative arrangements. I have actually recently got a sharer in hope she can take some of the jobs on and also benefit the horses lives. Just so add that this yard is by far than most around it in terms of turn out. There's many here than don't even have 24/7 turnout in Summer! Crazy x
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SO1 said:
I think you need to find a proper full livery yard. This sounds like primarily a DIY yard not set up to do services with professional grooms who are skilled enough to do things quickly and to a high standard. I am on a part livery yard and the skilled grooms are so quick at what they do. Is your friend doing a full muck out as that will take longer? Ours on deep litter so they are skipped out and beds tidied in the mornings. The beds are immaculate and they are done very quickly. New bedding topped up once a week. Turn out and catch in they take 2 horses at a time.

I am in the most expensive part of the UK London. I have seen yards advertising full livery with exercise three times a week for £1200 per month including turn out catch in, hay, bedding, feed, hold for farrier, vets, muck out.

It also sounds like you only use your friends services in the winter as the horses live out part of the year? This means there is no regular income for your friend and possibly might be why she needs to charge what she does to make it worthwhile offering her services.
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She does do livery in the Summer and this isn't her job. She's never had a job before or paid taxes. She won't let me use anyone else and she's only another livery. She can work just chooses not to but again I think you are missing the point.

Her income isn't my concern, she overcharged for a poor service that us crippling me financially and when I try to get more suitable livery I'm told I can't by her.

She's not the livery owner. She's not insured, she's literally doing it for pocket money.

My horses still come in over Summer and I still pay for things like fly spray, feeds etc daily just not full livery 4/5 times a week. That's maybe 2/3 times full then part the ortee days
 
SO1 said:
I think you need to find a proper full livery yard. This sounds like primarily a DIY yard not set up to do services with professional grooms who are skilled enough to do things quickly and to a high standard. I am on a part livery yard and the skilled grooms are so quick at what they do. Is your friend doing a full muck out as that will take longer? Ours on deep litter so they are skipped out and beds tidied in the mornings. The beds are immaculate and they are done very quickly. New bedding topped up once a week. Turn out and catch in they take 2 horses at a time.

I am in the most expensive part of the UK London. I have seen yards advertising full livery with exercise three times a week for £1200 per month including turn out catch in, hay, bedding, feed, hold for farrier, vets, muck out.

It also sounds like you only use your friends services in the winter as the horses live out part of the year? This means there is no regular income for your friend and possibly might be why she needs to charge what she does to make it worthwhile offering her services.
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I can get several progressional grooms free lance to do what she does better and for cheaper and without being told I have to use them. That's the main issue here and that's their actual tax paying job. I've used private grooms for nearly 10 years as mostly had my own yards. So I'm fully aware of what I'd pay and how it works usually
 
EJP15 said:
I can get several progressional grooms free lance to do what she does better and for cheaper and without being told I have to use them. That's the main issue here and that's their actual tax paying job. I've used private grooms for nearly 10 years as mostly had my own yards. So I'm fully aware of what I'd pay and how it works usually
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Professional*
 
EJP15 said:
So I've got time to play with and look for alternative arrangements
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My advice is to go on Facebook and search for and find as many pages as possible connected with 'livery' eg 'Livery and stable yards (put in your county'. I follow several in my area and they have been a revelation. Places I have never heard of. Follow every page that you find then they will pop up in your feed. Then trawl through every FB page that you have found (and/or do a search) and see if anything has been posted that would suit you. Message each one, however old, there might just be space for your two horses. You can also post your requirements on every page as 'anonymous participant'.

Also check noticeboards in feed stores, speak to the staff in feed stores, study Google Earth closely, contact the professional freelancers who you know and ask them if they know of anywhere etc

Good luck.
 
SO1 said:
I think you need to find a proper full livery yard. This sounds like primarily a DIY yard not set up to do services with professional grooms who are skilled enough to do things quickly and to a high standard. I am on a part livery yard and the skilled grooms are so quick at what they do. Is your friend doing a full muck out as that will take longer? Ours on deep litter so they are skipped out and beds tidied in the mornings. The beds are immaculate and they are done very quickly. New bedding topped up once a week. Turn out and catch in they take 2 horses at a time.

I am in the most expensive part of the UK London. I have seen yards advertising full livery with exercise three times a week for £1200 per month including turn out catch in, hay, bedding, feed, hold for farrier, vets, muck out.

It also sounds like you only use your friends services in the winter as the horses live out part of the year? This means there is no regular income for your friend and possibly might be why she needs to charge what she does to make it worthwhile offering her services.
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It is DIY and I'd rather get my own groom as I can choose who (that's usually the case) but now I can't because she is dictating who I use. Obviously because she sees it as an easy way for pocket money.

Even on yards with full livery I've never paid £40 a day for what she's charging me.
 
EJP15 said:
It is DIY and I'd rather get my own groom as I can choose who (that's usually the case) but now I can't because she is dictating who I use. Obviously because she sees it as an easy way for pocket money.

Even on yards with full livery I've never paid £40 a day for what she's charging me.
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I meant paid £40 for what she's doing. It would not even be classed as full as beds are done twice (skip out and muck out on full) fed twice and waters done twice
 
Depending on where you are in Lancs you should find full livery for less than Lady G's prices. I've never had to pay anything like that.
 
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SaddlePsych'D said:
This and @LadyGascoyne post all day. My goodness!
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Arzada said:
My advice is to go on Facebook and search for and find as many pages as possible connected with 'livery' eg 'Livery and stable yards (put in your county'. I follow several in my area and they have been a revelation. Places I have never heard of. Follow every page that you find then they will pop up in your feed. Then trawl through every FB page that you have found (and/or do a search) and see if anything has been posted that would suit you. Message each one, however old, there might just be space for your two horses. You can also post your requirements on every page as 'anonymous participant'.

Also check noticeboards in feed stores, speak to the staff in feed stores, study Google Earth closely, contact the professional freelancers who you know and ask them if they know of anywhere etc

Good luck.
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Thanks. I've already started doing this. She saw some of my looking posts even though I put up anonymously and asked did I post! I even made my location slightly wider search wise hoping it wouldn't be obvious it was me.
 
Gloi said:
Depending on where you are in Lancs you should fing full livery for less than Lady G's prices. I've never had to pay anything like that.
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Thanks. I will look. The one Livery yard I would have moved to has stopped being one as the YO couldn't deal with liveries anymore. She was such a nice YO too and people just treated her dreadfully x
 
EJP15 said:
Thanks. I've already started doing this. She saw some of my looking posts even though I put up anonymously and asked did I post! I even made my location slightly wider search wise hoping it wouldn't be obvious it was me.
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Other than grumble to other people about it, what exactly is she going to do if you do look for a freelancer?
 
ester said:
She can’t tell you you can’t use someone else she’s not the YO. You are letting her tell you that.
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Yes, I am, but when she and her friend and the only 2 other liveries start making my life and my new grooms life difficult, it seems like I have no choice. I did briefly use a freelance groom when I moved on, but they were so horrible to her and constantly sending me messages about her it became unbearable.

I also will have to deal with grief off her like I did when I got someone to do 1 day livery in a week she had already done 4 for me.

I want to say, my horses, my money, my choice and not give a hoot about the repercussions but that's impossible as it really won't be a comfortable environment for me and whilst I am looking for a good yard I have to stick it out.
 
EJP15 said:
Yes. Thank you.

I sound so weak and pathetic x
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I think it's unlikely that you are weak and pathetic. You have some potentially tricky decisions to make and some upheaval to make the changes needed, and you've got stuck in the 'there's nothing I can do' place. It happens. I find when I've made a plan, even if it will have some challenges on the way, that instantly makes things feel better.
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
I think it's unlikely that you are weak and pathetic. You have some potentially tricky decisions to make and some upheaval to make the changes needed, and you've got stuck in the 'there's nothing I can do' place. It happens. I find when I've made a plan, even if it will have some challenges on the way, that instantly makes things feel better.
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Yes that definitely helps me too. The sharer slowly taking over some jobs especially over Summer is something I'm hoping will help as will paying less days on full. Then keeping eyes open for appropriate livery spaces. X
 
Here’s a thought. Tell her you are having your tax affairs examined by HMRC….
Ask for her tax details , tell her you need them, as HMRC demanded to know where your money goes to. So you have declared her name and place where she does the work with your horses..
We did this when we had a garden man who was scamming us , he soon disappeared.
Bet she stops doing work for you. Tell her you’re worried that HMRC are investigating you and her. My thoughts are, if she don’t work then she is on benefits. And is ripping someone else off as well as you. Ans we all know HMRC and Benefits agency are like a dog with a bone. Once onto something they don’t let go
 
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