Godolphin caught out.

Alec Swan said:
.......

Did anyone hear Roger Charlton's well thought out words on CH4, this afternoon? He tweeted this; "Irish Field report use of anabolic steroids for horses in Ireland is illegal. Penalties range from up to 3 years in prison or €500,000 fine."

Alec.
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Something's just occurred to me. I was under the impression that al Zarooni had breached the BHA Rules. Apart from failing to keep proper Veterinary Records (an AHO requirement), has he actually broken the Laws of this Land? It would seem not. Is the practice illegal in Ireland, but not here? Under veterinary supervision, Steroids can be administered here, though not to horses in training, but if Charlton's right, then in Ireland it's a criminal offence. I am confused.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
I've just had a lengthy 'phone conversation with someone who I know very well, and whilst they are not in the employment of Godolphin, they are heavily reliant, as are many others, on the income that comes in to them, from the Maktoum family. They aren't alone.

The principal of Godolphin has, at least 400 horses in training, his wife perhaps 200, his brother and his son and his brother's son, probably another 1000. All these horses keep Newmarket alive, and provide work for a measurable percentage of the town's population.

Those who are employed directly by trainers and the yards and studs will amount to numbers which we'd have to guess at. To those, we can add the farriers, vets, saddlery businesses, feed merchants, the builders, plumbers and electricians, those who maintain the vast properties. The ancillary numbers, just in one town, bear in mind, will at least equal those in direct employment.

My friend says that there are many in Newmarket who've come to rely upon the living which the Maktoums provide, and that includes people taking out mortgages, marrying and starting families, all reliant upon one family. She says that there are many who are now very worried, and with good reason. She further predicts that should the Middle Eastern money leave Newmarket, then it'll end up like Lambourn, barely a village.

Whilst there can be no question of rolling over in the face of mind numbing generosity, with many, many supporting acts of kindness, of a philanthropic nature, including massive support for the AHT doing equine research, and all gifted to the town, we have to bear in mind that if the pressure becomes so great that there's a mass exit, then in the wake of that, there will be many who suffer, badly.

This friend of mine is convinced that the rot within the Godolphin set-up, isn't just endemic, it pervades the entire system, which includes the Endurance Riding set-ups. I suspect that Racing, and Newmarket in particular, have prostituted themselves in the face of such vanity, wealth and flattery, and if the area is rocked, then so be it, I suppose.

I'm not convinced of Bittar's statement that the Sheik isn't actually directing the enquiries, and having just read EstherYoung's offering, I'm ever more convinced.

Shaky Mo, I don't suppose that you'll read this, but you really have no right to exercise such control over others. You may rule Dubai, but you don't rule here, and despite your claims, I don't believe you.

Alec.
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That Alec is probably the best post I have seen by your good self and you make some excellent points.

I am the first to support anything that helps the Rural Economic Infrastructure and certainly racing is an intagral part especially the large yards.

However and it's a big however, if you are going to take a substantial stake in the Rural Economy of whatever professional activity, sport or enterprise. The rules of this country and it customs are to be respected and never abused, on the premis that 'one is too big to fail'.
 
J_M,

that's very kind of you, but it doesn't actually offer any resolve. Of course, we can't have British Racing held to ransom, and despite the mind numbing generosity, we cannot simply stand by and watch, without pawning our integrity. I realise that's a bit rich, considering that we have our own miscreants!

If there's a simple answer, it's that those powerful and hugely influencing and mostly foreign based owners, must be made to understand that they are contributing to the demise of the sport and the principles that they profess to support.

The friend who I mentioned has been in the presence of foreign royalty, and tells me that the level of fawning and boot licking which is on display from just about all of those who come in to contact with them, has to be seen to be believed. I'm assured that it's at a level which is embarrassing. Perhaps they are genuinely unaware of the public mood.

I wonder if anyone's taken the trouble to sit these people down, and point out that we simply wont tolerate such behaviour. Perhaps someone should explain that the sport of horse racing walks a fine enough line as it is, without those who should no better, failing to lead from the front, and as bonny has said, on a couple of occasions, they've barely profited from their efforts.

Are these wealthy people completely oblivious to public opinion? As SM has a Facebook page, presumably he's contactable. Just in case he's in any doubt, is anyone feeling brave? :D

Alec.
 
I see a parallel with banking. Keep them happy at all costs so they don't leave 'us' despite public opinion. The problem with becoming dependent on one industry/benefactor is that you get into a cycle of dependence, fear and it is open to corruption.
 
I've heard rumours that the horses might be sent overseas to run, but I don't know what the precedent for that is - I know bans are usually worldwide for jockeys, but no idea about horses.
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Just had it clarified that bans are worldwide. Rumours must have been precisely that.

As you were. :D
 
Would think a number will be sent to Dubai, no such controls there are there ? See how many come back. There may be a lot more to answer for ! What I find interesting too is, who told the authorities about Godolphin ? They did not simply stride in of their own accord. Someone high up got them to shift their a*s. Otherwise they would have not listened. Someone racked off !?
 
I have noticed how much heavier USA stallions look to those that stand at the UK studs. They are so very heavy topped. Is this the result of steroids? Also there seem to be many more savages, I have seen pictures of top stallions wearing metal muzzles etc. Do they give steroid to increase fertility?

Also I agree about Black Caviar, how foolish we have all been...she is the wrong shape for a mare, even a sprinter, no wonder she went unbeaten & the closest she came to being beaten was when she ran at Royal Ascot, that might have been when her dose was held back?
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10038550&nm=2&time=1365613125
This is a picture of UK sprinting mare Habibti & below of Black Caviar.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10663546&nm=3&time=1340462337
Black Caviar's musle mass is much more clearly defined & she almost looks like a colt.
 
Racing started as the sport of kings, then it became the sport of Arabs. You can take a Sheikh out of the desert, but he will never be a king nor a gentleman, he will always be a peasant.
 
justabob said:
Racing started as the sport of kings, then it became the sport of Arabs. You can take a Sheikh out of the desert, but he will never be a king nor a gentleman, he will always be a peasant.
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Idiotic, racist and sweeping statement to make. I don't know the wrongs and rights of this, but I really do not like your commentary. It is incredibly offensive.
 
The bottom line is,who knew what and gave what. How long for. These steroids are old and were used by Ben Jhonson years ago. Why so old ?
 
CloseCloseSOUTH AFRICA: Filly changes sex to become colt
By international
Tuesday's Child has been reclassified from a filly to a colt. After winning a 5f handicap in December her urine sample showed the presence of testosterone. The same hormone was present when she was tested after finishing fourth the following month.. (4 hours ago)

I realise this is speculation but one has to ask what this horse was reared on, growth hormones, who knows but its certainly food for thought.


I dont remember the poster who mentioned about more savage horses now and was it attributated to steroids, many years ago I had a copy of Stud and Stable and an article about savage horses. It said it was less common now due to better welfare, horses years ago were shut in their boxes with the top door closed and were driven mad by boredom. There had been several instances of horses attacking people in the parade ring and several deaths. Thank goodness we have moved forward these days and horses are out of their boxes for much longer.

Justabob that remark was completely uncalled for.
 
I know one or two people who must be on steroids, they're always pretty angry. They are body builder types which is why they take them. I thought it was a side effect of steroid abuse.
 
Honeylight said:
I have noticed how much heavier USA stallions look to those that stand at the UK studs. They are so very heavy topped. Is this the result of steroids? Also there seem to be many more savages, I have seen pictures of top stallions wearing metal muzzles etc. Do they give steroid to increase fertility?

Also I agree about Black Caviar, how foolish we have all been...she is the wrong shape for a mare, even a sprinter, no wonder she went unbeaten & the closest she came to being beaten was when she ran at Royal Ascot, that might have been when her dose was held back?
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10038550&nm=2&time=1365613125
This is a picture of UK sprinting mare Habibti & below of Black Caviar.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10663546&nm=3&time=1340462337
Black Caviar's musle mass is much more clearly defined & she almost looks like a colt.
Click to expand...

On fertility I don't know about horses but in men steriod use adversely affects fertility .
 
Actually , anabolic steroids decrease fertility when given over time. The body stops producing testosterone because of the steroids, and when they are withdrawn, it often will not resume producing testosterone on it's own.

The harm to the body's organs caused by steroid use are well known.
The anger side effect is known as "roid rage".
 
Not easy to compare Habibti to Black Caviar. The photos do no justice. Though colts will always look more like colts than filly's for some reason ! No matter what you give them.
Filly's beating colts is another matter. Back to the basics of this discussion. The Arabs appear to of been cheating. They should be sent packing no matter how much money they have. Even though one of them has yet to win the Derby !
 
Dobiegirl said:
.......

Justabob that remark was completely uncalled for.
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It also devalues our case. We can't sit in judgement, and use racism as a tool.

Back to the subject of this thread, there will be no progress until we have global acceptance of an ethos which centres around honesty, and that I'm sorry to tell you, just aint going to happen. The only possible way forward, in the event that other countries wont join with us, is to have focused and stringent blood testing, firstly for all race horses entering the country, and then pre-raceday.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
It also devalues our case. We can't sit in judgement, and use racism as a tool.

Back to the subject of this thread, there will be no progress until we have global acceptance of an ethos which centres around honesty, and that I'm sorry to tell you, just aint going to happen. The only possible way forward, in the event that other countries wont join with us, is to have focused and stringent blood testing, firstly for all race horses entering the country, and then pre-raceday.

Alec.
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I think the rest of the world are as honest or dishonest as we are, I suspect steroids are widely used, openly in some countries and secretly in others and to imagine otherwise is just naive. There can be no other explanation asto why horses from countries which allow drugs are not superior to ours and neither were the Dubai horses. Maybe we should have the same policy as other countries rather than the other way round ?
Also Black Caviar was very special and to suggest it was down to steriod use is insulting, she ran in a country where steroids are allowed so if she had them it wasn't giving her an advantage and one of the reasons she looked the way she did was because she stayed in training for so long which is unusual for any flat horse let alone a mare.
 
Racing really is rediculous. How can you have the use of steroids legal in one country and not in another, then start moving horses round and racing clean ones against dirty ones?

Makes a mockery of eveything allowing drugs, being prepaired to use them tells you a lot about the ethics of those involved, legal or not.
 
skydy said:
Actually , anabolic steroids decrease fertility when given over time. The body stops producing testosterone because of the steroids, and when they are withdrawn, it often will not resume producing testosterone on it's own.

The harm to the body's organs caused by steroid use are well known.
The anger side effect is known as "roid rage".
Click to expand...

Wasn't it part of the crazy 1980s boom in racehorse prices? That yearlings were pumped with steroids, sold for millions and then discovered (off their regimen of drugs) to be both slow and infertile?

Wasn't that the secret story behind Snaafi Dancer?
 
SusannaF said:
Wasn't it part of the crazy 1980s boom in racehorse prices? That yearlings were pumped with steroids, sold for millions and then discovered (off their regimen of drugs) to be both slow and infertile?

Wasn't that the secret story behind Snaafi Dancer?
Click to expand...

That's interesting SusannaF, I remember that & how John Dunlop was quoted as saying that the horse became uglier & slower the more he had him. Mind you a lot of Northern Dancer line stallions have had problems with fertility & it was thought to be in the bloodline, but is it........?

I also agree with the poster that there should be a worldwide ban on steroids in training, surely this must be discussed. We can't have Black Caviar's coming to race here & horses going off for "druggy holidays in the sun".
 
bonny said:
Also Black Caviar was very special and to suggest it was down to steriod use is insulting, she ran in a country where steroids are allowed so if she had them it wasn't giving her an advantage until she races in another country which doesn't allow their useand one of the reasons she looked the way she did was because she stayed in training for so long which is unusual for any flat horse let alone a mare.
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I'm sorry but do give some of us some credit of knowing how fit horses should look no matter how long they're in training and she looked like a Belgian Blue in comparison to others, mares or otherwise. You have to wonder why she needed that compression suit when normal fitting rugs would have done the same job of keeping her muscles warm.

Honeylight said:
I also agree with the poster that there should be a worldwide ban on steroids in training, surely this must be discussed. We can't have Black Caviar's coming to race here & horses going off for "druggy holidays in the sun".
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with this. Does anyone know the withdrawal times from them?
 
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