Godolphin caught out.

Meldrew said:
Not easy to compare Habibti to Black Caviar. The photos do no justice. Though colts will always look more like colts than filly's for some reason ! No matter what you give them.
Filly's beating colts is another matter. Back to the basics of this discussion. The Arabs appear to of been cheating. They should be sent packing no matter how much money they have. Even though one of them has yet to win the Derby !
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They have won the Derby
 
Is Black Caviar more hugely muscled than Zenyatta?

Big Brown's the horse I think of when I think of legal steroid use. His trainer was notorious for it, and he was half the horse he'd been when he was taken off them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/sports/08iht-horsebig8.13554203.html?_r=0

Given that he also seemed to have pretty awful feet, it seems like a bad idea to breed from him, let alone endorse linebreeding (as his stud's website suggests)

http://hoofcare.blogspot.de/2008/04/big-brown-most-famous-feet-in-derby.html
 
Dobiegirl said:
CloseCloseSOUTH AFRICA: Filly changes sex to become colt
By international
Tuesday's Child has been reclassified from a filly to a colt. After winning a 5f handicap in December her urine sample showed the presence of testosterone. The same hormone was present when she was tested after finishing fourth the following month.. (4 hours ago)

I realise this is speculation but one has to ask what this horse was reared on, growth hormones, who knows but its certainly food for thought.


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The latest I can find here, is that is was determined that Tuesday's Child is an hermaphrodite - reported here: http://www.sportingpost.co.za/2013/04/26/racing-and-sport/romeo-francis/

Or more accurately "a male pseudo hermaphrodite"
I have no idea what that means, though!
:o
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Dobiegirl said:
CloseCloseSOUTH AFRICA: Filly changes sex to become colt
By international
Tuesday's Child has been reclassified from a filly to a colt. After winning a 5f handicap in December her urine sample showed the presence of testosterone. The same hormone was present when she was tested after finishing fourth the following month.. (4 hours ago)

I realise this is speculation but one has to ask what this horse was reared on, growth hormones, who knows but its certainly food for thought.
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Could also be a hermaphrodite. I met one of these at a nature reserve. A Konik who looked like a filly, peed from below "her" tail and had a small udder etc. When "her" behaviour changed drastically as she grew up and she began fighting the stallion for mares, investigations revealed that "she" was in fact a "he": there was a small, rear-facing willy under the tail, and that udder was a scrotum.

No hormones involved. Horse was born on a "rewilding" reserve.

I found a reference to a similar case in an 18th century French horse book called Le Nouveau Parfait Maréchal, so it must be a phenomenon that crops up now and then.

(Ancient Hacker – I didn't spot your note because it was below a line and I "read" it as a signature - sorry about that)
 
Well someone else has been caught. Gerald Butler? Never heard of him! But my flat knowledge is zilch. I haven't read the article yet as can't get the paper off OH.
 
Is a bit different, having scanned the article, it was a prescribed and legal drug, but illegal for racing.
 
SusannaF said:
Could also be a hermaphrodite. I met one of these at a nature reserve. A Konik who looked like a filly, peed from below "her" tail and had a small udder etc. When "her" behaviour changed drastically as she grew up and she began fighting the stallion for mares, investigations revealed that "she" was in fact a "he": there was a small, rear-facing willy under the tail, and that udder was a scrotum.

No hormones involved. Horse was born on a "rewilding" reserve.

I found a reference to a similar case in an 18th century French horse book called Le Nouveau Parfait Maréchal, so it must be a phenomenon that crops up now and then.

(Ancient Hacker – I didn't spot your note because it was below a line and I "read" it as a signature - sorry about that)
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Interesting. You learn something every day.
 
I wonder if we wll have more trainers coming out as Gerad Butler has, because if the BHA tighten up and investigate thoroughly trainers are worried at being found out. Rather than being caught out but coming clean and as in Gerad Butlers case was prescribed by the vet which in itself is very worrying if vets are not familar with banned drugs.

Perhaps the BHA need to offer an amnesty to find out how deep the problem is.
 
Dobiegirl said:
I wonder if we wll have more trainers coming out as Gerad Butler has, because if the BHA tighten up and investigate thoroughly trainers are worried at being found out. Rather than being caught out but coming clean and as in Gerad Butlers case was prescribed by the vet which in itself is very worrying if vets are not familar with banned drugs.

Perhaps the BHA need to offer an amnesty to find out how deep the problem is.
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Surely "Racing" vets must be aware of the rules. Butler must have used one of the big Newmarket practices who specialise in thoroughbreds not small animals. Even our vet, who specialises in cardiac problems of cats & dogs knew Lasix was banned in the UK for racing, I used to talk to her when our cat went for his health checks.
 
You would be surprised at how little vets know, well no, not know but get into their job and forget about the horses job. A few times I have had to stop our vet from just popping drugs into a horse and reminding them that they are race horses, not your generic horse that you can do whatever with. Sometimes It does slip their mind but we use a rural practice that deals with more normal horses than racehorses. You would expect the vets in HQ to be totally clued up as to what they can and can't give.
 
Perhaps the fact it was injected into the joint and not the muscle made the vet and trainer think it was permissable. One thing for certain these vets and trainers need to go on a refresher course.:D
 
Dobiegirl said:
Perhaps the fact it was injected into the joint and not the muscle made the vet and trainer think it was permissable. One thing for certain these vets and trainers need to go on a refresher course.:D
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:D Definitely!

I also want to know what doesn't get recorded in the 'official medical records'. Lol
 
amandap said:
:D Definitely!

I also want to know what doesn't get recorded in the 'official medical records'. Lol
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But it was recorded in the med records and sent off to the BHA and returned without comment,( see my link a couple of pages back) so it begs the question did the BHA miss it or is it permissable for injecting joints and not muscles. I would have hoped the BHA would have issued a statement making it abundantly clear if they were permissable but a withdrawal time was to be adhered to.
 
Dobiegirl said:
But it was recorded in the med records and sent off to the BHA and returned without comment,( see my link a couple of pages back) so it begs the question did the BHA miss it or is it permissable for injecting joints and not muscles. I would have hoped the BHA would have issued a statement making it abundantly clear if they were permissable but a withdrawal time was to be adhered to.
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Yes, I realize that. I was referring to the comment by Butler in the article I linked. He was so confident it was legal he recorded it. The implication is there that if he wasn't confident he might not of recorded it. ;) I think he worded it very badly myself.
Obviously I am unaware of the medical value of injecting anabolic steroids into joints but cortico steroids are good at reducing inflammation and are what are commonly used in humans with joint issues.
 
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I had cortizone into a joint last year & very painful it was, it did speed up the healing though.
I too wonder why they used an anabolic steroid & not cortizol for the horses.

Someone on another forum posted a link to the leaflet that comes with the product Gerard Butler used. It is an American drug & is used in arthritis & I presume other equine conditions like navicular & ringbone.

Has anyone used it on their own horses? I presume it is used by non racing vets to treat conditions. It may of course be an expensive treatment, not widely used or a relatively new one.
 
Several pages back the source of the drugs was discussed. It was suggested the connections brought them into the UK from Dubai.

I suggested that this was unlikely and surely customs would pick the drugs up, how wrong was I - Racing Post comment a couple of hours ago.

The trainer brought them in to the UK in his hand luggage. Then gave the syringes, via his car window, to his staff with a list of the horses into which the needles were to be poked. You couldn't make it up.
 
'The trainer brought them in to the UK in his hand luggage. Then gave the syringes, via his car window, to his staff with a list of the horses into which the needles were to be poked. You couldn't make it up. '

Crikey, that says a lot for airline security!
 
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