Golden button challenge

With all due respect PS i think you a looking at that video and getting to wrong perspective the ground conditions were wet and testing and I think they set off at a rate that took account of that .The general consensus on the day was more got around and had less issues than they had before ,sorry if you dont agree but I was relatively surprised by the lack of use of spurs and whips. I still think it was just a bad coincidence.
I really wish riders from one discipline have a bit more understanding of other disciplines did you actually look at the photo of the horse being washed off before he had his heart attack!! Did he look like he had over exerted himself??
 
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virtually every horse is getting cracked and kicked and virtually hauled over fences by the riders? i think that fact its SO visible and is happening to the entire field, gives an entirely accurate perspective tbh.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
virtually every horse is getting cracked and kicked and virtually hauled over fences by the riders? i think that fact its SO visible and is happening to the entire field, gives an entirely accurate perspective tbh.
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You must be looking at a different video!
At least the horse was given the opportunity to do something rather than being written off because it could not do what the owner wanted it to anymore!
 
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There is plenty on the Facebook page about the horse deaths, I think it pretty sad that the organisers haven't even released a condolences to connections statement or mentioned it in their report on the website
 
woodlandswow said:
Poor WorMy.. such a lovely horse but these things do happen.. its like the grand national, everyone has for an against arguments for that, its just horse sports.
Does anyone know how the infamous girl who rides a chestnut sidesaddle got on?
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She hacked around far behind and was one of the last if not the last to finish.

Loose horses didn't cause a problem as far as I could see.

There must have been a fairly dodgy jumper up the front judging by the holes in the hedges that those following made use of.
 
ester said:
There is plenty on the Facebook page about the horse deaths, I think it pretty sad that the organisers haven't even released a condolences to connections statement or mentioned it in their report on the website
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Why do they need to!! They all there on the day and it is dealt with personally.
 
Just because I think any other large event would in their announcement of the results make some mention of it out of courtesy, it seems strange to have no mention of it at all.

As it stands, to me it feels like they are trying to keep it quiet.

thanks re. the loose horses marmalade.

Am not against it at all, I just think it should be taken into consideration for future runnings in case there is anything that could be done that might help reduce the risk.
 
ester said:
Just because I think any other large event would in their announcement of the results make some mention of it out of courtesy, it seems strange to have no mention of it at all.

As it stands, to me it feels like they are trying to keep it quiet.

thanks re. the loose horses marmalade.

Am not against it at all, I just think it should be taken into consideration for future runnings in case there is anything that could be done that might help reduce the risk.
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I am sorry I have yet to see any BE or BS results that say a horse died in this class. There not hiding anything it is just that the people taking part know the risk they are taking and dont need to say anything . In fact I applaud Wormy as was, having the ability to put togather a statement like she did on sunday which made it very clear the affection she felt for her horse. Its beyond me how when somebody has gone to those lengths others can then criticise when they were not there riding the horse. Even less do they know the facts!
 
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Just to make it clear I am absolutely not criticising WorMy.

you will note I said large event- ie the pinnacle of a sport, you wouldn't have it not mentioned at badders et al. or any of the big races under rules.
 
ester said:
Just to make it clear I am absolutely not criticising WorMy.

you will note I said large event- ie the pinnacle of a sport, you wouldn't have it not mentioned at badders et al. or any of the big races under rules.
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I assure you my remarks re wormy were in no way directed at you!
I think the Golden button is indeed up there in relation to Hunt challenge races but most people interested would have been there on the day . The horses and the competitors are not really known outside their own circle as opposed to say Badminton,if you understand what I mean.
 
popsdosh said:
You must be looking at a different video!
At least the horse was given the opportunity to do something rather than being written off because it could not do what the owner wanted it to anymore!
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cant play vids at work so cant link to what i watched but the front few horses are basically banking hedges, plouging through them, tipping and scrambling and being forced to continue by the rider.

retirement does not have to be flat out or written off. Bruce goes hacking 3/4 times a week, he is neither flat out(being thrashed round as a schoolmaster) or written off(turned out and forgotten) there is a middle ground and like i said before, was the horse not owed more?
 
You dont know the facts how do you know this horse was thrashed around you just assume because it had a heart attack it was. Looks pretty relaxed in the photo to me! Most people that take part the challenge is in getting around at their own speed hence why the field was so spread out at the start.
 
It's worrying Popsdosh that you seem hell bent on defending what really is inexcusable in this day and age. Of course accidents happen in all sports, and deaths too, but at the end of the day 4 horses dying in one event is more than just a coincidence IMO.

I also don't think you or anyone else can make any judgement as to the physical state of a horse via one photo.
 
its god knows how many miles, of mostly deep going, with far more jumping efforts per 100m than any XC course...........................thrashed by your definition ie whipped excessively, or not, its not going to be a walk in the park for any horse. by thrashed i personally mean pushed to the limit and you cannot deny(unless you are blind) that every horse was basically at its limit by the last fence-they are all heaving themselves over, getting slower and slower, sticking more and more on take off and landing in a heap not sprinting away. They would have been pulled up by the FJ at any BE event................

im not assuming anything, the ground, the length of the course, the height and number of jumps, are all clearly visible. as is the number of horses belly flopping through things and *just* barely making it over without rotating.

i dont want to make it too personal but this old timer had given his all to many riders and IMO(and its not just my opinion by the looks of it) deserved more than to be pushed to breaking point. The rider and connections (again unless blind) KNEW 100% this would be a huge ask of any horse and would be gruelling and a test of endurance as much as skill-is it right to put a horse through that at all, but specifically in its *retirement* when it has taught the rider everything it knew and given them much success?

no morals :(
 
I find it utterly bizarre that people are defending this event and saying it's not a big deal that four horses died, and are then saying it's completely different to the fact that horses die in endurance. How on earth can you say this is OK and different? If horses are likely to die in ANY event, then we should be putting in safety measures and changing it (don't even get me started on whoever was suggesting this was only as dangerous as a horse being in the field!!! are you for real!?).

Are there trot-ups and vet checks for the horses prior to the Golden Button? It always surprises me they don't do this for team chasing (well not to my knowledge).

I think a good safety measure would be to do something like for endurance, where you trot up before and after and have heart rate and metabolics checks - if your horse is a) lame or b) heart rate is above a certain level, dehydrated etc, you're out - so you can't push them beyond their limit. Clearly there are cases where even that fails, but it could be a good start.
 
Moomin1 said:
I have to say Popsdosh you don't portray yourself in the nicest of lights to be honest. Why the hostile attitude?
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Not hostile its the truth but for another time. Perhaps you should ask PS the same picking on an ex forum member deliberately in my view.

Enough said Im butting out . Otherwise I shall say something that will light a blue touch paper.
 
Only just noticed this post. i was there and was at fence 2. I didn't see carnage, there were a couple or three stops, one girl who had fallen off at the first fence remounted and came over after the main group. I saw 2 riders unseated on the landing side. It was quite a challenging fence but quite wide and the horses seemed to cope very well, there were no horse falls. IMO, there was a group of riders who were racing and the rest seemed to be taking the challenge as "getting round" safely. 39 riders finished out of 62 starters and several of those had fallen off and remounted. The ground was very heavy, it's clay at Longdon and unfortunately there had been rain the day before the race (maybe 2 days before) and you needed a very fit horse to get round at speed. I walked most of the course and ended up with size 60 boots because of the clay clinging to them. Yes, fences were big and some very trappy, but that is the nature of the challenge, it's not an eventing course. I'm really sorry there were horse fatalities, (I thought 3), but I also know the horse and rider mentioned in earlier posts and am absolutely confident that the horse would have been thoroughly prepared, I also know he was a complete XC machine and gave every indication of loving his job (not so keen on the dressage though) and his rider is an experienced p2p rider. Thank goodness he collapsed after the race and not during it. I've seen a horse drop dead at a PC event, unfortunately, it happens but at least on this occasion the rider was unhurt. I do think you have to be a bit mad to do this race and yes, the likelihood of injury to both horse and rider is quite high, but that's true of hunting generally. I wouldn't want my horse cantering on the road or galloping across heavy plough but that's what hunt horses do all the time. Just trying to add a bit of perspective really, both the riders with headcams were racing and what you don't really get from the video is how strung out the horses were round the course, giving riders much more time to be safe at the jumps.
 
amage said:
It is a huge assumption to make that those horses that died were not fit enough. Certainly looking at the facebook page one of those that sadly had a heart attack and died after finishing was very fit looking and his owner/rider (a previous poster on here) has evented to a high level and is a licensed jockey so most definitely knows how to prep a horse correctly. She posted a lovely pic of him being washed off with his ears pricked after completing the course. Minutes later he had a heart attack. Sadly where you have livestock you have deadstock
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agree with Amage. A very true observation. I personally wouldn't run a horse in it, but I wouldn't own a NH horse either but that's just me, though it doesn't stop me watching NH racing, same could be said for 3DE. I am sure that all the horses that took part were well cared for during their life though, as many would be top class hunt horses & as such would be fit & very well cared for with no expense spared. It would be hard to police the race re : the suitability, ability, capability & fitness of both horse & rider as this is run by a hunt & not a recognized turf authority. I guess the footage could be viewed & if numbers were a factor then possibly limit the number of starters next year. Thats is just my way of looking at it & I have never attended but my partner who was a jockey has stewarded for it in the past & is obvioulsy used to the possibilty of losing horses at this type of event, but he had not passed previous comment on horses being lost in the past. I am afraid that this debate will go on forever.
 
popsdosh said:
Not hostile its the truth but for another time. Perhaps you should ask PS the same picking on an ex forum member deliberately in my view.

Enough said Im butting out . Otherwise I shall say something that will light a blue touch paper.
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im not picking on anyone deliberately and ex forum member or not the rider of that particular horse should be ashamed IMO. I couldnt care less if the horse belonged to the queen, the owner, rider and connections pushed it too far, to this end. That its an ex forum member is coincidence only tbh. The whole thing stinks.
 
I find it really odd that neither horse and hound magazine has sent any comment about the race in their frequent email updates ( I am a subscriber ) and if you look on the golden button website not one mention...just a video of the day...of the casualties .Is this because they are trying to keep it out of the national press perhaps by "burying " the story? methinks the answer is yes.....
 
Popsdosh, are you connected to this race or something? You are defending it to the hilt and seem a bit offended on a personal level.

Have you also previously had a different username on here?
 
Really not sure there would be sufficient interest to make the national press??!! Come on!! Joe public really wouldn't care too much I would imagine whereas this is a "horsey" forum so feelings inevitably run high. I'm sure there's no big cover up but who does it really help broadcasting casualties? From WorMy's post it would appear her lovely horse was dealt with very sensitively which is all we can hope if tragedy strikes whilst competing

The chesnut horse in the head cam footage is a top class, hugely experienced open team chasing combination and I personally thought they had a brilliant spin round. I'm sorry, but I really did not see a horse being hauled and shoved around and struggling over the fences - quite the opposite. I saw a willing partner enjoying himself - go Ferrari! Good for them

If it's not your cup of tea, fine, but some over the top criticism of individuals on here based on little knowledge or fact
 
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