Gordon Elliott

[Elf On A Shelf]

Hi Elf I know Irish horses have not been racing here and vice versa why is there an exception for Cheltenham and Aintree???

They have been at times. At the start of lockdown last year they and we weren't allowed to travel. When we could it was too expensive and time consuming for the 2 week quarantine periods either end to make it viable. Now the quarantine periods are shorter there are now extra fees courtesy of Brexit. So it is not financially viable for them to come over as and when they pleased like they used to. So most have saved their horses in Ireland for the Festivals when they are coming over for 10-12 days regardless in one fell swoop.

There have still been Irish horses racing over here and we have sent the odd one over there but it's not been in the same quantities which has in turn kept the big playing horses at home more this season. Hence the big Irish and British horses haven't really met at all this season.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Regarding the appropriate punishment for damage to the overall reputation of racing, I hope that the authorities are gunning as hard for whoever leaked the photo. Given the timing and everything it's clearly a personal vendetta/ revenge thing.

Gunning for them? And what do you think should happen to them when they are found?

 

[Flame_]

Gunning for them? And what do you think should happen to them when they are found?

I bet someone can and will come up with something worse than anything I can.

 

[Mule]

That's very interesting, I had no idea

Hearts too big for their bodies. Thoroughbreds have huge hearts because the work they do increases the muscle volume a great deal. The bigger the heart the greater risk of it going wrong. Take Big River for example - his heart is larger than your average TB's and so it flips into Atrial Fibrillation on occassion - it has done this 3x when racing. Twice it has reset itself with 24 hours, once we was dosed with Quinine but the process had to stop as his body couldn't cope with it so he was electric shocked back into rhythm a few weeks later. Tb's hearts work very, very hard. They are pumping so much blood round the body every single second and obviously even more so when working hard. Same for any animal really though many are not asked to work as hard nor as fast as a racehorse. Studies have shown the bigger the heart the better the racehose. One For Arthur's heart is bigger than Big River's.

So yes heart attacks are more prevalent in racehorses because of how they are bred and how they are trained.

As to horses running til they are exhausted - yes under idiot jockeys who don't know when to quit. BUT this will not be happening at Cheltenham. I can see all the lads being given strict instructions by the stewards to pull up the moment they know they have no hope. Racing quite simply can not afford for anything to go wrong right now. Jockeys can be banned and fined for failing to pull up a tired horse and I expect the Cheltenham stewards will use this to full effect for the meeting.

I also expect there will be fewer runners at Cheltenham because owners can't go. Yes everyone wants a runner at Cheltenham but they would rather be there to see it run than watch it on a tv screen. A lot of horses go just because they can to give the owners a day out. No day out, no point in wasting a run when the horse could win elsewhere the following week.

 

[Clodagh]

Regarding the appropriate punishment for damage to the overall reputation of racing, I hope that the establishment are gunning as hard for whoever leaked the photo. Given the timing and everything it's clearly a personal vendetta/ revenge thing.

Yes perhaps, there should be consequences for GE (though I personally consider all this hoo-hah punishment enough for getting caught doing a stupid, crass thing), but whoever has put out that photo has an equal hand in the damage to racing's reputation and they've chosen to do it for a personal agenda, they haven't just acted like a prick in front of their mates.

ETA Even if they aren't punishable in racing conduct terms, they're going to face some serious comeuppance one way or another, I'd say.

If how he treats women is as rumoured then I expect it was one of them. I dislike him more for being a misogynist than an unfeeling git!

 

[Flame_]

If how he treats women is as rumoured then I expect it was one of them. I dislike him more for being a misogynist than an unfeeling git!

I'm no fan of misogyny, and I have deep sympathy for poorly treated women, but the consequences of choosing to go for GE in this way are huge, not just for him but for his staff, his owners, and the racing industry as a whole.

Whoever it was is going to be watching their back forever, and rightly so IMO, doing this amount of damage would be a disproportionate punishment for GE allegedly being a chauvinist and/or bad boyfriend.

 

[Wishfilly]

The entire thing sits funny with me.

AFAIK at no point has there ever been a suggestion of GE cruelty or mistreatment so whilst what he did was distasteful and disrespectful he was not cruel, the horse had no awareness.

So whilst of course there should be a consequence to actions, claiming to want life time ban, loose his business etc etc is all a bit much he is being tried by social media which is wrong. He made a bad decision which will impact his career forever but people have done much much much worse and got away with a lighter sentence he is unlucky in 2 aspects
1- timing, when the focus was already on racing
2- the social aspect of it is bringing people who are already against the racing industry to want him thing drawn and quartered.


whilst i will never ever support his choice he does not deserve this level of public hate wanting him to loose everything and become destroyed. Every one has made a decision you regret 99% of us are lucky those decisions dont get used to destroy our entire professional and personal lives

I think the fact that another video has come out involving someone involved in the same set up suggests a culture where the horses are not respected as they should be. I think if you can be that disrespectful in death, you probably don't have the horse's welfare at heart during your life.

There are some people in racing/thoroughbreds who have a callous attitude towards horses- that is a fact. There are lots and lots of people who don't, who love their horses, ensure they have the best of care and care about what happens to them when the leave the industry. As someone who wants racing to continue long term as a sport, I think if those with the most callous attitudes were forced out, the sport would be improved as a whole, gain a better public perception and have a more secure future.

Do you think owners should be forced to keep their horses with him? If you had horses in training, would you send them to Gordon Elliot now? If you were a sponsor, would you want to associate your brand with him right now?

 

[bonny]

I think the fact that another video has come out involving someone involved in the same set up suggests a culture where the horses are not respected as they should be. I think if you can be that disrespectful in death, you probably don't have the horse's welfare at heart during your life.

There are some people in racing/thoroughbreds who have a callous attitude towards horses- that is a fact. There are lots and lots of people who don't, who love their horses, ensure they have the best of care and care about what happens to them when the leave the industry. As someone who wants racing to continue long term as a sport, I think if those with the most callous attitudes were forced out, the sport would be improved as a whole, gain a better public perception and have a more secure future.

Do you think owners should be forced to keep their horses with him? If you had horses in training, would you send them to Gordon Elliot now? If you were a sponsor, would you want to associate your brand with him right now?

You are ignoring the fact that he’s had a huge amount of success and grown a hugely successful business from nothing ...do you really believe you can see something that people paying enormous amounts of money for him to train their horses couldn’t ?

 

[Gingerwitch]

Boo hooo mr Elliott is not such the big man now is he ? His poor little friends saying he has had enough. Well did anyone listen to the two dead horses whom I am sure were trying to tell the riders that they had had enough. Did they get a smack on the arse and shouted at, until they dropped dead.
Heart attacks happen but when I have seen this first hand the rider has placed a coat over the horse. I have had to have a horse winched out of a stable late at night. The knackerman asked me to be removed before they started and apologised to everyone before he did what needed to be done. And he had never even met my big lad.

 

[Wishfilly]

You are ignoring the fact that he’s had a huge amount of success and grown a hugely successful business from nothing ...do you really believe you can see something that people paying enormous amounts of money for him to train their horses couldn’t ?

I think he's very successful. I don't think that necessarily correlates with having the horse's welfare at the forefront at all times. I also think there are owners who won't care about that.

I also doubt he sat on dead horses in front of owners.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well did anyone listen to the two dead horses whom I am sure were trying to tell the riders that they had had enough. Did they get a smack on the arse and shouted at, until they dropped dead.

Now you are getting carried away again just like you did on the thread that was taken down. Do not invent stuff to fit your narrative.

Horses can and do drop dead without warning.

 

[AmyMay]

Boo hooo mr Elliott is not such the big man now is he ? His poor little friends saying he has had enough. Well did anyone listen to the two dead horses whom I am sure were trying to tell the riders that they had had enough. Did they get a smack on the arse and shouted at, until they dropped dead.
Heart attacks happen but when I have seen this first hand the rider has placed a coat over the horse. I have had to have a horse winched out of a stable late at night. The knackerman asked me to be removed before they started and apologised to everyone before he did what needed to be done. And he had never even met my big lad.

Eh? ??‍

 

[Gingerwitch]

Now you are getting carried away again just like you did on the thread that was taken down. Do not invent stuff to fit your narrative.

Horses can and do drop dead without warning.

Get stuffed tiddlypom !

 

[Gingerwitch]

Now you are getting carried away again just like you did on the thread that was taken down. Do not invent stuff to fit your narrative.

Horses can and do drop dead without warning.

And I said that if you can be bothered to read it properly !

 

[druid]

The person who had the photo for 18 months and didn't got to IHRB is quite likely to get pulled in front of the hearing too going on several accounts over here. It's been widely touted on social media who released the photo and there is another video of inappropriate/cruel behaviour of a horse, allegedly which she threatened to release. The existence of which makes the whole thing of a moment of madness harder to swallow.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Boo hooo mr Elliott is not such the big man now is he ? His poor little friends saying he has had enough. Well did anyone listen to the two dead horses whom I am sure were trying to tell the riders that they had had enough. Did they get a smack on the arse and shouted at, until they dropped dead.
Heart attacks happen but when I have seen this first hand the rider has placed a coat over the horse. I have had to have a horse winched out of a stable late at night. The knackerman asked me to be removed before they started and apologised to everyone before he did what needed to be done. And he had never even met my big lad.

I don't know if you have ever read some of my A Day In The Life Of A Work Rider threads but this one seems a little apt:

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/the-highs-and-lows-of-being-a-work-rider.756568/

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Interesting update to the latest internet goss druid. But I have to say I am not at all surprised, never mind the total disrespect and oafish, juvenile behavior regarding the poor dead horse, to me it isn't so much what he did as more concern regarding what happens when nobody with a phone camera is around, or has been told in no uncertain terms to turn their phone camera off!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don’t think that the identity of the dead GE horse has been mentioned before, apologies if it has. So he was an established horse with wins, who belonged to his main owner. ETA Morgan had won over £60k in prize money.

The dead horse at the centre of the Gordon Elliott photograph controversy was the Michael O’Leary-owned Morgan.

Winner of four of his 21 starts the seven-year-old gelding died of an aneurysm on Elliott’s gallops in 2019.

 

[Lady2021]

Boo hooo mr Elliott is not such the big man now is he ? His poor little friends saying he has had enough. Well did anyone listen to the two dead horses whom I am sure were trying to tell the riders that they had had enough. Did they get a smack on the arse and shouted at, until they dropped dead.
Heart attacks happen but when I have seen this first hand the rider has placed a coat over the horse. I have had to have a horse winched out of a stable late at night. The knackerman asked me to be removed before they started and apologised to everyone before he did what needed to be done. And he had never even met my big lad.

Seriously you’re accusing someone of abuse when you have no evidence . This has really turned into a witch hunt and plus the horse died of aneurysm. Which can happen to any horse at any time. My friend horse dropped dead in his stable he was 2 years old.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Seriously you’re accusing someone of abuse when you have no evidence . This has really turned into a witch hunt and plus the horse died of aneurysm. Which can happen to any horse at any time.

Stop twisting my post ! I was saying that mr Elliott is having people step in to say enough. Trainers and riders are the only ones that can see and hear what is going on with there horses. If you can be bothered to actually read my post and not humor to conclusions you will see the bit where I state. Hirses di have heart attacks, but the ones I gave have seen first hand the rider has placed a coat over there head. Sirrybid I have to spell out that this meant that rider had respect for the decreased animal. Not like Mr Elliott and his jockey that chose to use one as a chair and one as a climbing frame to jump on. I doubt need to make it up, the evidence is starting us all in our faces and is on multi media platforms.
Why are you not jumping on the other posters that are slkegingbothet unsavory evidence done to live animals.?

 

[AdorableAlice]

Boo hooo mr Elliott is not such the big man now is he ? His poor little friends saying he has had enough. Well did anyone listen to the two dead horses whom I am sure were trying to tell the riders that they had had enough. Did they get a smack on the arse and shouted at, until they dropped dead.

The thread has discussed in a sensible and balanced way the darkest day racing has faced. Juvenile and uneducated comments as above really are crass and take the poster to the level of the poor decision making shown by Mr Elliott.

 

[Lady2021]

Stop twisting my post ! I was saying that mr Elliott is having people step in to say enough. Trainers and riders are the only ones that can see and hear what is going on with there horses. If you can be bothered to actually read my post and not humor to conclusions you will see the bit where I state. Hirses di have heart attacks, but the ones I gave have seen first hand the rider has placed a coat over there head. Sirrybid I have to spell out that this meant that rider had respect for the decreased animal. Not like Mr Elliott and his jockey that chose to use one as a chair and one as a climbing frame to jump on. I doubt need to make it up, the evidence is starting us all in our faces and is on multi media platforms.
Why are you not jumping on the other posters that are slkegingbothet unsavory evidence done to live animals.?

You where accusing him of abuse when you don’t even now the yard . Plus your no better than him making juvenile and uneducated comments this is a serious racing issue .

 

[MissMay]

But it is enough, people have to stop thinking because it's the internet we can say and speculate as we please forgetting conveniently that people are impacted

Suicides are caused by less.

until there is proof other than "he said she said" all we can see is a person who made an absolutely stupid decision paying the price.

So while absolutely it is wrong and he will forever pay the price business wise- he is also going in front of the professional board and will have to face his peers at some point in shame.

he does not need to be made a public scapegoat for every single issue within an industry. it is not his specific fault jockey dont pull up tiered horses. it is not his specific fault racehorses have heart attacks.

So whilst I wouldn't be kicking his door in to keep my own horses there right now- the bigger picture needs to be looked at forever more his yard, his staff , his horses will be scrutinised waiting for any issue to arise.
Do i think he deserves to be punished for things he has never been connected with?! absolutely not.
Do I think he should loose absolutely everything he has ever worked for because he did something disrespectful and distasteful? No

Do I think he should be punished CORRECTLY by the authorities, absolutely

 

[NinjaPony]

Agreeing to ignore the posts that are trying to derail the thread.....

My opinion of Michael O’Leary continues to plumb new depths. That horse was successful, won him good money and yet he’s fine with how it was treated when the poor thing dropped dead?

Moving beyond speculation of cruelty, to treat a dead animal like that is actually very disturbing and really not normal at all. The attitude behind that kind of posing for a picture is alarming psychologically to say the least.

 

[Wishfilly]

I agree that he shouldn't be made a scapegoat for every issue in racing. On the other hand, I think some people (not necessarily on this thread) would also like to silence discussion around wider issues in racing/TB breeding which I think it would be good for people to discuss.

Owners and sponsors have every right to remove their horses and I don't see how the jobs of stable staff can be protected unless people are saying this should somehow be prevented? I feel sorry for the stable staff, but I do truly believe good staff will manage to find jobs elsewhere. I understand the uncertainty of that will be difficult for them, and they don't deserve to be punished for this. But I think it's sadly inevitable.

 

[bonny]

Agreeing to ignore the posts that are trying to derail the thread.....

My opinion of Michael O’Leary continues to plumb new depths. That horse was successful, won him good money and yet he’s fine with how it was treated when the poor thing dropped dead?

Moving beyond speculation of cruelty, to treat a dead animal like that is actually very disturbing and really not normal at all. The attitude behind that kind of posing for a picture is alarming psychologically to say the least.

How on earth do you know what he thinks beyond his statement issued to the press ? The horse died two years ago, you have no idea what he thought at the time or even now. He has far too many horses there to simply remove them all, maybe he’s waiting until after Friday, maybe he’s making other decisions, we simply don’t know and nor is any of our business. All this speculation about people that none of us know is just weird and very unhelpful.

 

[shortstuff99]

I mean to be fair, most humans hate working for O' Leary.......

 

[dogatemysalad]

I always feel uncomfortable when people on social media start going for the jugular. Witch hunts never make good reading.

 

[Ceriann]

For the general public, horse racing walks a tight rope where horses and riders put themselves at risk of injury or death to entertain. Injury and death often played out publicly. The conflict is rationalised to a great extent by a belief that injury or death is deeply felt by the industry insiders - owners, trainers, jockeys and yard staff. They do this for the love of the animal right - this majestic creature that gives its all for us, demanding nothing in return. What GE did exposes very clearly to the public that this is not the case - this is a business and the horses are an expendable commodity. The conflict becomes too real, the injury and deaths can’t be rationalised. Its incredibly damaging for the industry full of people who do care and can show how they care - but a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[NinjaPony]

How on earth do you know what he thinks beyond his statement issued to the press ? The horse died two years ago, you have no idea what he thought at the time or even now. He has far too many horses there to simply remove them all, maybe he’s waiting until after Friday, maybe he’s making other decisions, we simply don’t know and nor is any of our business. All this speculation about people that none of us know is just weird and very unhelpful.

I don’t know what he thinks privately. I’m basing my judgement off the public statement he has issued, and actions he has taken. Which I think is reasonable, as that’s presumably the whole point of giving the statement. All I know, is that if one of my horses was treated like that by the trainer, I wouldn’t be standing by them. And so, my opinion of him, which was already pretty low, again based on public actions and statements, continues to sink lower.

I’ve always been fairly ambivalent about racing, but there’s no doubt this nasty episode will haunt the sport for a time to come, and it validates what a lot of the public already thought.