Grain free food discussion on current concerns

planete

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Just to check - you know this isn't actually added product?

Yes, I do know. I just copied the whole thing straight from the website and the protein and fat percentages are good. What shocks me is the total absence of meat, the animal protein content is the result of chemical extraction and is supplemented by protein of vegetable origin. Plus various yeasts again chemically manipulated as far as I understand it. Perhaps a home recipe made by adding a bit of protein powder available from Holland and Barretts to some boiled wheat, oat and barley, sprinkled with some fish oil and some yeast would do the trick just as well? it just does not fit my idea of food as wholesome, natural ingredients appropriate to a member of the canid family.
 

Clodagh

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Yes, I do know. I just copied the whole thing straight from the website and the protein and fat percentages are good. What shocks me is the total absence of meat, the animal protein content is the result of chemical extraction and is supplemented by protein of vegetable origin. Plus various yeasts again chemically manipulated as far as I understand it. Perhaps a home recipe made by adding a bit of protein powder available from Holland and Barretts to some boiled wheat, oat and barley, sprinkled with some fish oil and some yeast would do the trick just as well? it just does not fit my idea of food as wholesome, natural ingredients appropriate to a member of the canid family.

Well I wouldn't feed it. Sorry for underestimating you! :)
 

druid

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I'm going to rotate Eukanuba Platinum Performance and currently talking to the RC rep about their breeder program and what working options they have, although the breed specific Cocker looks interesting with specific supplementation for cardiac/DCM issues so may go that route. I will continue with the tinned (Rocco) and Raw they've had added. I want to wean to a grain inclusive diet now as come June the dogs move to the USA for a year so I need to be able to feed a grain inclusive diet there
 

Stiff Knees

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I am really anal I suppose you could say about feeding our dogs.. They get fed Eden, which I thought was one of the best. They look cracking and love it.. but is this safe or are any of the percentages to high? Ah..

https://edenpetfoods.com/products/d...al-cuisine-working-and-sporting-dog-food.html
I feed Eden too, have done for the last 6 years at least, one of our labs is 12y 4m and the other 2y 2m, they look really well on it. Our 17 year old, who we have just lost, was also on Eden and also did really well on it. They do get the occasional non rawhide treat so are not fed exclusively on Eden but it makes up each of their proper meals. Eden's customer service is excellent too, recently had to contact them about our youngster who is very athletic and having a late growth spurt, and they couldn't have been more helpful. We do switch between the Country Cuisine and the Original Cuisine with a bit of the Wild Boar and Pheasant semi moist as a topper to add interest. I'm not going to stress over this, I think you can overthink things. I just see happy, healthy, energetic dogs who love their food, that'll do for me. 🐾🐾😍
 

Stiff Knees

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I don't think it is very fair to frame genuine, scientific FDA-level concern about a degenerative condition that often doesn't have early clinical signs as 'overthinking'.
I apologise, Ester, I meant no offence. What I should have said is that my opinion, valueless as it is, because frankly I'm not clever enough to be able to unravel the scientific study of this issue, is that I'd rather be in ignorant bliss, feeding my dogs a high quality food that they enjoy, that they look well on and has been fed to them long term with no apparent side effects. I realise that the key word there is apparent, because I just don't know if something is going on with my dogs until clinical signs become apparent. If I was more intelligent then perhaps I'd understand this better, but I am a bear of very little brain. I apologise again if I offended you. I did not intend to.
 

ester

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you weren't offending me :) but this is a genuine serious concern over grain free dog foods though obviously still a work in progress with regards to actual causes and one I do think people should be taking into consideration and not dismissing as it could be pretty important.

I do wonder if it will have an effect on how many times we hear that vets only recommend big brand feeds because they are paid to do so rather than the fact that those brands do at least have long term feeding trials behind them. As I think I said on this thread previously it has certainly been interesting seeing how it is discussed by vets and more american based sites.
 

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Cinnamontoast

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Aimless wondering here: my lot are on raw, mostly, I add kibble occasionally. They get scraps, bits of bread, pizza crust. Is it enough in terms of grain? Is there an 'ideal' percentage?
 

Hormonal Filly

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So, what does everyone feed their dogs? What’s the best food?

We can’t feed raw as have a fridge and freezer the size of a box in our rented place..
 

Cinnamontoast

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So, what does everyone feed their dogs? What’s the best food?

We can’t feed raw as have a fridge and freezer the size of a box in our rented place..

I feed 90% raw, plus scraps. I'm wary of the stuff the vet pushes, it seems to be very low quality. Kibble is easy and my lot wouldn't care what they get, but it makes me feel better to feed stuff I can identify, although I can't be sure of the source/use of antibiotics/additives in the meat etc sometimes.
 

MotherOfChickens

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With all respect cinnamon toast, how can you say the stuff the vet pushes is low quality and yet you feed pizza crust? I don't particularly care that you do but that does seem like a huge contradiction in terms to me. And who the heck doesn't eat their own pizza crust?😉

there are very real concerns over the quality of some raw food, given the cat-TB issue in the U.K. I wouldn't trust a lot of the game being sold tbh.

As can be seen from the chart, expensive doesn't necesssarily mean safe and yet these companies are seen as being better because they aren't the ones that vets push. The promise of food containing free range buffalo and tickling fairy caught salmon is more likely to get people handing over their cash than one that has years of research behind it. The marketing has been genius tbf,
 

planete

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Aimless wondering here: my lot are on raw, mostly, I add kibble occasionally. They get scraps, bits of bread, pizza crust. Is it enough in terms of grain? Is there an 'ideal' percentage?

From personal experience, each dog seems to be different when it comes to carb consumption. My longdog thrives on none at all (but eats it happily) while a farm bred border collie I had ran like the wind all day on muesli type dog food. No science behind my post though.
 

Hormonal Filly

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I’d love to feed raw but we rent a small cottage with a box fridge and freezer so have no room and no where to put another. :-(

Until we move out it has to be kibble.. what’s the best kibble available?
 

Aru

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For raw and home cooker's the main app recommended to check nutritional stats of the diets and see if there are any deficiency issues is BalanceIt last I checked (its been a few months so not sure if that's changed) App was originally created by a vet nutritionist.

Kibble choices are a minefield. But at the moment the WSAVA recommendations are listed below.
WSAVA is the world small animal veterinary association for the record- so the global version for veterinary standards and advise to the public regards small animal matters. They are the ones who analyze and decide on recommendations for many of the small animal vet protocols and standards of care, changes to vaccines schedule advise-advised changes to 3 yearly on viral vaccines, etc. The world health organization would be the human equivalent for the e.u.

https://www.wsava.org/wsava/media/arpita-and-emma-editorial/selecting-the-best-food-for-your-pet.pdf

They don't list a list of pet foods because that would lead to them being accused of bias.The questions are interesting and make you think though so well worth a read....and the usual reason why they aren't all hit by the smaller companies is that it would cost too much for the manufacturer to do and make a good profit... the question then is what risk are you willing to take to support local and small business..
The guidelines provide an approach on how to choose foods with nutrition and science behind them and the questions can be asked to any brand....currently only a handful of companies currently mean all the recommended guidelines and shockingly enough they are the biggest manufacturers of pet food in the world.
If your anti the big 4/3 companies for whatever reason-boycotting nestle appears to be a popular one, then it's advised to read the list of qns and decide what areas your happy to compromise on and chose your foods that way.

The other fun thing to try and work out is why you are drawn to certain foods and what makes people think "this is a good food" and why ...try and look at the marketing behind the product. Then add the wsava list of qns and re-evaluate with a science cap on.... there's also a great list of units on the DCM facebook page on nutrition for those who want to delve a little deeper into the science versus spin.
There's a massive amount of profit being made in the pet industry so marketing and consumer manipulation has been pretty interesting to watch over the last decade or so.
 
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ester

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I do wonder if they will change any of their recommendations based on this info as iirc they rate Acana pretty highly
 

Hormonal Filly

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ester

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That's a pretty rubbish answer tbh that wouldn't fill me with confidence. He clearly hasn't read any of the FDA information easily available as if it had he would understand why 'genetics' doesn't fully account for what seems to be occurring. The whole point is that it has been happening in dog breeds without previous genetic predispensation to DCM. It strikes me as a very head in sand response tbh.
 

Hormonal Filly

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Bumping this up again.
I've asked what Edens percentage of chick pea is, because funnily enough that isn't disclosed.

By the sound of it, Eden and Millies Wolfheart feeds haven't been trialed. Using the website below, it means, they should feed to minimum of 8 dogs for 6 months. Dogs have to maintain their body weight, pass a veterinary exam, and have normal blood chemistry parameters at the end of the trial.. Millies said they'd get back to me as don't KNOW what a feed trial means?! Link

I am concerned, owning a cocker which is one of the breeds on the list and worried I could be feeding him something that could make him ill in his lifetime. Considering changing to a grain based food, with good levels of meat but seems impossible? Considering raw, but it looks to be rather expensive!
 

SpringArising

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With all respect cinnamon toast, how can you say the stuff the vet pushes is low quality and yet you feed pizza crust? I don't particularly care that you do but that does seem like a huge contradiction in terms to me.

I think it would only be a contradiction if CT's dogs main diet consisted of pizza crust.

I feed my dog good quality kibbles (I think - currently feeding the Milles Wolfheart 80% meat one), because I want his main meals to be quality. But he still gets random tidbits of rubbish occasionally.
 

Clodagh

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Bumping this up again.
I've asked what Edens percentage of chick pea is, because funnily enough that isn't disclosed.

By the sound of it, Eden and Millies Wolfheart feeds haven't been trialed. Using the website below, it means, they should feed to minimum of 8 dogs for 6 months. Dogs have to maintain their body weight, pass a veterinary exam, and have normal blood chemistry parameters at the end of the trial.. Millies said they'd get back to me as don't KNOW what a feed trial means?! Link

I am concerned, owning a cocker which is one of the breeds on the list and worried I could be feeding him something that could make him ill in his lifetime. Considering changing to a grain based food, with good levels of meat but seems impossible? Considering raw, but it looks to be rather expensive!

I too looked for a decent grain and meat food, but they don't exist, so far as I can see.
Edited to say I should say meat with grain. Mine have been on the 50/50 MWH, but now going on to 60/40. the 80/20 is just too expensive with four.
 
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