Grand National 2012- Carnage! What did everyone think?

[horseluver4eva]

ditto to what i said before to jesstickle. i am appalled at that comment, horses are living things with feelings. im sure you wouldnt like to be in that position so what would make a horse want to be

 

[tallyho!]

I think now the race has had its day and killing good horses is no longer acceptable .

Well said.

 

[diluteherd]

But do they choose to be ridden or choose to jump brightly coloured poles or choose to do piaffe? Don't turn this into a its not natural post! Horses are honest and they are kind and they will do what is asked of them and what they are trained to do. They don't always have a choice x

^^ This is also what I wanted to say but couldnt put the words together..

Horses are kind, even though Im sure a lot of you with the biters, rearers, buckers, general ASBO horses and ponies will disagree.

I dont get saddened by racing, or any horse sport, other than rodeo.. stupid american sport. Horses through out thousands and thousands of years have always and will always be there for us, whether it be taking a soldier into war, amazing us with elegence, pulling a plough, working in mines, giving a disabled child the biggest grin you will see, the list is endless!

What saddens me is when people do look upon them as just a horse. They are not just horses without these horses I cant see how we would be where we are today. The are truely the most amazing creature and I think a lot of this is forgotten. They take pleasure having a purpose no matter what the task and we should give them credit.. all this arguing over right and wrong, remember the soles of the horses who were happy doing what they did, whatever their role and prey for the ones neglected and forgotten as those are the ones that need the time spent on them.

 

[Tinseltoes]

I didnt watch it as I can't stand seeing the horses getting hurt.Too many horses get hurt and die.

 

[Pale Rider]

A few more deaths on the alter of entertainment, competition, ambition and greed, absolutely disgusting, contempt for all those involved.

 

[SO1]

I having been reading the posts and thinking about this, yes it is a risky race and it is really sad two horses have been PTS. However a lot of horses also get injured just hooning around in the field, however careful people are horses do get injured both in sporting activities or just through being a horse.

Getting rid of the GN will not reduce the number of premature deaths in race horses you just won't see it on telly in such a dramatic way. I think the worst thing about racing is the disposability of race horses not just ones PTS in the race but those who are not profitable or are unable to race due to injury. I wonder what will happen to those that were injured in the race but did not have life threatening injuries if they can't race again.

 

[misterjinglejay]

I'm not sure what the stats are for the Velká pardubická; I watch this every year, and there doesn't seem to be as much carnage, or as many fatalities (this is only based on what they show on telly, so I might have missed that bit!).

It seems to have as many runners, and is over a similar distance.

I cant find any info on fatalities, during or after, the race; other than the obvious terrain and fence differences, what else contributes to the, apparent, success?

 

[tallyho!]

^^ This is also what I wanted to say but couldnt put the words together..

Horses are kind, even though Im sure a lot of you with the biters, rearers, buckers, general ASBO horses and ponies will disagree.

I dont get saddened by racing, or any horse sport, other than rodeo.. stupid american sport. Horses through out thousands and thousands of years have always and will always be there for us, whether it be taking a soldier into war, amazing us with elegence, pulling a plough, working in mines, giving a disabled child the biggest grin you will see, the list is endless!

What saddens me is when people do look upon them as just a horse. They are not just horses without these horses I cant see how we would be where we are today. The are truely the most amazing creature and I think a lot of this is forgotten. They take pleasure having a purpose no matter what the task and we should give them credit.. all this arguing over right and wrong, remember the soles of the horses who were happy doing what they did, whatever their role and prey for the ones neglected and forgotten as those are the ones that need the time spent on them.

That is what gets me too!!!!! People who say "it's JUST a horse"...

 

[Shantara]

I think I'm going to hang out at the dog forum until all this blows over...this is getting a bit much.

 

[Lizzie66]

Question 3. why is being in the very best position at the first fence so vital.
Alec.

One of the reasons the Jockeys try to reach the front first is to enable them to avoid the the possibility of being brought down by a faller in front of them.

With regard to Synchronised running so soon after the Gold Cup, he fell at the 5th fence on the first lap, when he ditched AP he had a gentle canter for no more than half a mile. These horses are trained "athletes" he would have been plenty fit enough, and if not then AP would have pulled him up when he started to tire. Running in the GC was not the reason he fell, nor was the "running off" at the beginning, so why make comments like this that will be hurtful to the owners.

The society we live in now seems to be all about not taking risks, where we care more about a horse that has sadly been killed doing a sport that it enjoyed (you might force a horse to do something, but if it doesn't enjoy it then it won't be very good at it) than we do about the people around us.

Jesstickle had it right we should ensure that whilst we have ownership/care of an animal then we should ensure that it has the best of care but that should not stop us from partaking in activities that carry a risk. If we did then I suggest that no one should hack their horse on roads ever again, as it is far too dangerous !

 

[Tamba]

A few more deaths on the alter of entertainment, competition, ambition and greed, absolutely disgusting, contempt for all those involved.

totally agree, in my opinion , this is my opinion , it shoud be stopped,if it had been two jockeys, it would be stopped.

 

[christine48]

I think limit the race to 20 of the best. At least they shouldn't be bringing each other down.

I think they should limit the field to no more than 25 of the best. It was awful seeing horses and jockeys being battered, stood on ab
Nd banged into. Synchronised's fall didn't look as bad as some of the others and in was so shocked to hear he'd had to be put down. It was awful seeing the fallers getting stood on and kicked around by following horses.
If I owned a racehorse I don't think I'd run it in the national.

 

[indie999]

I am glad I went out today and didnt listen or watch this barbarism...certain death....

One question have we had a GN where they all lived?

 

[PolarSkye]

What do I think? I think I wish I hadn't watched it to be honest. It was carnage. Again. I'm not against racing (well, not NH - don't get me started on flat racing) . . . but I do think this particular race needs to be changed somehow. Fewer runners would be a good start. And from what I can tell, lowering the fences just makes the horses go faster.

To summarize . . . I think it's very sad. For the horses, for their connections, for the jockeys. And it just seems somehow unnecessary.

P

 

[Jake10]

Random question, as I don't know a lot about racing/betting. Do bets placed on horses that are either injured or die during a race get refunded? If they aren't perhaps they should be. It might encourage racing to be made safer, even if it's only made safer to reduce the loss of income at least it would be safer for both horse and jockey.

 

[Auslander]

Yo!, I don't give a *****, I've just won £3300 on Neptunes Collonges. Wish I'd put more down now, but stuff it, there's always another race. I've already decided what I'm spending my winnings on, my friends wil be envious and that's worth much more than a horses life.

Hilarious. I thought my sense of humour was inappropriate, but...

 

[amage]

There were 37 event riders killed between 1997 and 2008 with 18 of these occurring between 06 & 08. How many horses were killed & severely injured in that period I don't know. If eventing was on tv every day of the week it would be banned by now due to loss of human life. I am not against eventing but things are all relative. It is horrific those horses died but people claim eventing is not as bad yet there is a far higher incidence of human death/ severe injury than in racing. The field by rights should be reduced or a specific qualification system put in place. A reduction to 30 would see an improvement but equally nothing is certain! Public outcry has caused fences to be lowered and thus much quicker speeds causing more trouble. I really feel for the owners particularly the McManus's. The incredible excitement of being in the photo finish, the disappointment at being beaten but the thrill that their horse ran a stormer to finish a Super second and then the. Red filtering back that their other runner lost his life and as such they were stuck there to go through formalities with the placed horse and as such cannot dwell on the loss until after when the cameras are gone, the public are gone and they are in private. Yet they are labelled cruel and uncaring. It fascinates me that people thing we are all involved in racing for the money....the love of horses, the thrill, the pride when your horse runs...even when he runs below par but he still tries his hardest so you are thrilled with him, the rare days that have you on top of the world, the lifelong friends...that is why we are in the sport. But sure what would I know...I'm only involved in the sport rather than being a hurler on the ditch who makes highly inaccurate presumptions

 

[TicTac]

Yo!, I don't give a *****, I've just won £3300 on Neptunes Collonges. Wish I'd put more down now, but stuff it, there's always another race. I've already decided what I'm spending my winnings on, my friends wil be envious and that's worth much more than a horses life.

You mean you've got friends?

 

[Mike007]

A long time ago when the National had huge fences, before all the modifications, the horses that ran in the race were National Hunt horses, they were more like middle weights. We had NH stallions to put on our substantial mares, not many "dual pupose" stallions about then, some could have up to 9ins of bone. They were not speed machines they had staminer and the differance between chaser and flat horse was clear to anyone with a pair of eyes. The course was a fair test, the pace was slower and they hacked into the fences got into the bottom of them and jumped. Sadly we have now a Park type course with 40 runners all going flat out. I dont think we will see less carnage all the time we have horses racing in the GN that are flat bred.

A good point,well made!

 

[Dab]

In the era we live in, we don't have to eat animals or wear them. There are other things to eat and other materials to wear. We don't need to keep pets either.

Let's be honest.


Animals die for the entertainment of most of the people on this forum.

They are turned into shoes we don't need, into leather saddles we don't need, into food for cats and dogs that we don't need to keep either.

We're *all* greedy. Greedy for those shoes or for our pet cat to cuddle. We're all implicated.

Add to this, all milk drinkers, do you give a thought to the 1/2 million male calves that are slaughtered within days of being born, just so you can enjoy a nice cuppa-tea with a dash of milk? But a couple of horses die in the National 'for entertainment' and all hell breaks loose - just not sure i can follow this line of thinking.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Well this is an interesting thread.

This point sticks out the most, the old jockey's used to say you need a jumper, now it's a racehorse. Make no mistake, breeders of NH horses are not breeding these types of horses anymore either. Since coming over here all I've heard is how there needs to be more speed in these NH horses. Well they are doing just that. Soon the National will be shortened and fences smaller. Speed kills.

To the person who said no horse in their right mind would jump those fences as an individual. They only jump because their in a herd. Ok whatever. Those are naturally looking fences and way more inviting and smaller than Olympic SJ fences. And what about those eventing fences. Also not herd mentality. Hate to be snarky but maybe head off to your roundpen. And I watched my then 2yo filly jog up to a 6ft hedge in her field and pop out across it. She was not being chased and I guess didn't like this field. I moved her but I also spent a day putting an electric fence up along said hedge like a numpty. She was fine and quite proud of herself. That's what I get for breeding a warmblood out of an old line NH mare I suppose.

I'm not the biggest National fan and never have been. But I'm also not a fan of a few different horse sports. Doesn't mean I want them all banned.

Terri

 

[Dab]

A long time ago when the National had huge fences, before all the modifications, the horses that ran in the race were National Hunt horses, they were more like middle weights. We had NH stallions to put on our substantial mares, not many "dual pupose" stallions about then, some could have up to 9ins of bone. They were not speed machines they had staminer and the differance between chaser and flat horse was clear to anyone with a pair of eyes. The course was a fair test, the pace was slower and they hacked into the fences got into the bottom of them and jumped. Sadly we have now a Park type course with 40 runners all going flat out. I dont think we will see less carnage all the time we have horses racing in the GN that are flat bred.

well said...

 

[Persephone]

catwithclaws i cannot believe what you are saying, horses are not replaceable!!!!! if you had/have a child are they replaceable?...no so whats the difference with a horse. horses trust you with their life, they run to please you, they believe that you will keep them safe and each individual horse has their own attitudes, personalitys and ways. no horse is the same, the same with people. people who say they love it, i know thats your opinions and im sorry if i offend you but basically you are watching horses die and suffering.

^^ Wow, totally agree!

I wish my horse was replaceable, life would be so simple then. But my relationships with my lost horses will never be usurped by my relationship with a new horse.

I love my horses for what they are, their quirks, personalities, everything. None of those things are replaceable IMO.

Maybe that is the difference, I love the entity, not what it can physically do for me.

 

[Tinseltoes]

A few more deaths on the alter of entertainment, competition, ambition and greed, absolutely disgusting, contempt for all those involved.

Agreed.Look how they dispose of the horses when theyre no longer needed.
Ban the national if possible.But if not then limit the amount of runner to a max of 20 horse or less.
Its all about MONEY and greed.

 

[Hells Bells]

Although I'm not an avid racing fan at all, I do watch the GN most years, and have say it's getting me questioning my own morals...again.

I'm fully prepared to get told i'm wrong or offered an informed opinion if I'm not hitting the mark, I don't mind at all each to their own and all!

But basically, if I can get this across in words...

- To ME, it is a bit about the consentual issue. A horse is a horse, yes, and at the end of the day, a human's life may be more important, but the jockey does, rightly or wrongly, choose to race. The horse does not.

What bothers me most is that the odds of accidents/fatalities amongst horses in the GN just seems too high compared to other sports. (Correct me if wrong please...as I said, not trying to offend anyone here)

And then it got me thinking...how can I justify my own ownership and riding of horses? And I think ultimately, it's because, when I get on my horse, yes there is the possibility that something horrific might happen, but over the years, and as of yet, it hasn't...thank God. And other than freak accidents, I'd like to think I'm never KNOWINGLY entering my horse into dangerous situations.

I think you could argue so many points here, and looking back on my own post, I dont know what I'm arguing really... Sorry guys!

I for one would have to do a hell of a lot soul searching to enter a horse of mine (don't laugh, i know they're cobs ) into a race like the GN.

Well done to the winner. But I do think my relationship with the GN is winding down now. Shame.

Out of interest, is there a statistic out there about the liklihood of a fatality in the GN as compared to other races/types of riding?

 

[diluteherd]

A long time ago when the National had huge fences, before all the modifications, the horses that ran in the race were National Hunt horses, they were more like middle weights. We had NH stallions to put on our substantial mares, not many "dual pupose" stallions about then, some could have up to 9ins of bone. They were not speed machines they had staminer and the differance between chaser and flat horse was clear to anyone with a pair of eyes. The course was a fair test, the pace was slower and they hacked into the fences got into the bottom of them and jumped. Sadly we have now a Park type course with 40 runners all going flat out. I dont think we will see less carnage all the time we have horses racing in the GN that are flat bred.

Totally and utterly agree with every wise word you have written... to those who said the 'old gits stuck in their ways' maybe we should take a few tips of the older generation...

 

[AmyMay]

What a wonderful post diluteherd. Thankyou.

 

[Marydoll]

Yo!, I don't give a *****, I've just won £3300 on Neptunes Collonges. Wish I'd put more down now, but stuff it, there's always another race. I've already decided what I'm spending my winnings on, my friends wil be envious and that's worth much more than a horses life.

And that says it all about why it continues as is...... Greed and a complete disregard for the horse and jockeys safety as long as someones pockets are lined.

 

[Hullabaloo]

catwithclaws i cannot believe what you are saying, horses are not replaceable!!!!! if you had/have a child are they replaceable?...no so whats the difference with a horse. horses trust you with their life, they run to please you, they believe that you will keep them safe and each individual horse has their own attitudes, personalitys and ways. no horse is the same, the same with people. people who say they love it, i know thats your opinions and im sorry if i offend you but basically you are watching horses die and suffering.

If you really don't see the difference between a horse and a child, you really need to get some perspective.

These are racehorses, bred and trained to do a job. It is sad when a horse is killed in any discipline but there are far more pressing welfare issues in the horse world.

For what it's worth, I thought Neptune Collonges was magnificent - what a performance!

 

[Hells Bells]

Also...have to add, and excuse me for offending anyone here.

But the whole 'it's just a horse' thing kind of makes me feel a bit sick.

It's an animal that gives its all for you, runs its heart our for you, jumps for you and it dies for you, and for your money...you just get another one?? Wish I could be as at ease as that!

John Hales quote: "The tears for One Man didn't stop for a year. It hit the family hard. In the summer he'd be in the field in front of the kitchen at home. You miss that. You live in fear of anything happening to them"

Sums it up for me.