Grand National 2012- Carnage! What did everyone think?

[albeg]

I *think* the screen was up around a jockey

Does any one find it strange how they never really comment on how the jockeys are? Do we just have to assume that all are OK unless we hear otherwise?

Hopefully the fact that nothing was said means it wasn't a jockey.
But you're right, nothing was mentioned about any of the jockeys that fell...at least not while I was watching....and there doesn't seem to be any update so far.

 

[touchstone]

This ^^^


A footballer collapsed and died today during a match, I'm sure there will damn sight less posts on here and FB as there will be about the loss of the two horses in the National.

I would never trivialise the loss of human life and wasn't aware that a footballer has died

I don't watch football though and due to the fact that this is an equestrian forum you are bound to get more posts on equestrian relate items, I don't think that means we value human life any less though.

If it was a jockey that the screens were round, has anyone heard how he is?

 

[Dancing Queen]

I dislike this race as there are far too many runners and riders and there are far too many deaths, needless deaths for my liking.

I would never put my horses into a race/competition where i knew that there was a very strong chance they would be killed. Thats because i love my horses, some may argue as pets, but these racehorses are business and seen as business commodities. There probably is a fondness, maybe love from the stablehand and a fondness from the trainer, but not a true 'love'.

Thats my opinion, yes there are deaths in many other equine sports, even in field, but to knowingly put your animal in that position is an entirely different matter.

The GN divides people, some love it, some hate it, some want it banned, some want it to remain a british treasure.

What I want is peace for these beautiful animals that have lost their lives fulfilling their masters desire. I hope and pray that something is done with the race so that no more fatalities occur, i fear next time it maybe a jockey who loses his life.

RIP Beautiful ones xx

 

[Bright_Spark]

Very sad that Synchronised and According to Pete were PTS

Some of those falls were horrible, espeically when you could see the jockeys getting trampled and horses being brought down by others

However, I'm one who hates this side of racing, but don't think it should be banned, and despite the efforts to make it safer, horses still are killed. I do think it is to do with the numbers, but on the other hand, 2 horses fell in earlier races with only 4 or 5 in each race.

For those wanting to compare racing with other sports- how many riders have been killed in eventing, yet no one seems to go on about that being banned? I guess I'm just saying I also agree with jesstickle!

 

[Wagtail]

i was very worried for the jockeys near the back of the field surrounded by so many loose horses, must be terrifying knowing that the loose horse could suddenly cut across your path in front of or after a fence.

is there any way to clear loose horses faster? i can't think of any but someone might know .. ?

Shoot them? would save time and effort later.

No seriously, I feel especially sad that poor Syncronised tried to run off at the start. It's just awful. He should never have run.

 

[3Beasties]

Not quite that far!

Tis amazingly said that the race resulted in the deaths of 2 horses, but I still love racing in general. The fences need to be BIGGER, that'd slow them down.

Well I'd have said it was more then a mile, obviously can't tell how far it was as I wasn't there

I'm not against racing at all, but still find it sad when horses die. My comment about Syncronized wasn't in anyway bashing racing or the National in general! IMO he looked tired when he came back to the start, he was already blowing which can't be good ahead of a race like the National. It may not have changed anything but I can't help thinking it may have done.

 

[Fools Motto]

All jockeys ok and the other two horses' injuries are not thought to be life threatening.

Good news on that front.

 

[Mike007]

Biggest mistake was reducing the size of the fences. If you watch very old footage, circa 1930 ,the race was far more spread out ,with riders not competing for a racing line but looking for a clear run at the fences. The softness of the fences now has created two distinct styles of jumping, the carefull leap over the top and the smash through it . This creates havoc on the run into the fences and in my opinion is a major factor in serious falls. The biggest problem way back,was the enthusiastic amateur who just wanted to get round,and didnt know when to pull up a tired horse. This is far less applicable now. Have a google for the 1925 grand national and watch the footage,you will see what I mean.(unfortunately you will also see two totaly unnecessary falls of tired beaten horses later)

 

[letrec_fan]

Tragic isn't it? OH told me Thoughts to his family. I think in Italy he will be getting all the tributes he deserves though. I hope so.

To be fair, lots of young people die every day from heart conditions - I am sure he will get publicity as he is a footballer. We don't have posts and tributes to all those people, do we?

 

[Wagtail]

This ^^^


A footballer collapsed and died today during a match, I'm sure there will damn sight less posts on here and FB as there will be about the loss of the two horses in the National.

It's a HORSE forum.

 

[tallyho!]

Awful. Again.

Not to worry, the show must go on. Brand new Range Rovers to buy, brand new mansions to furnish, need the funds for the kids school.

It's only a horse.


How can anyone not be ashamed?

 

[touchstone]

All jockeys ok and the other two horses' injuries are not thought to be life threatening.

Good news on that front.

Well that's good to hear at least.

 

[3Beasties]

It's a HORSE forum.

I am well aware of that hence my reference to FB as well

 

[ASBO Bob]

All jockeys ok and the other two horses' injuries are not thought to be life threatening.

Good news on that front.

That's good was concerned that jockeys weren't being mentioned for more sinister reasons (notifying family etc. ) glad I am wrong

 

[indie999]

When I was kid at home we had sweepstakes and the excitement it was Beechers brook? and another nasty one??cant remember I know THE CHAIR??. It was all exciting but I suppose when they get killed or injured out of sight out of mind.

In adult years been to races and it does remind me of gladiators! of Roman times.
I went out today and couldnt be bothered to watch the merry go round. And when I see the women dressed as tarts I just couldnt be bothered to be honest. Like a circus. The women look like clowns.

If people criticise Appleby I cant see why if they think this is ok? Got grumpy in my old age obviously! But I get told the horses love it?

 

[Wagtail]

I am well aware of that hence my reference to FB as well

Does the fact that a footballer died mean that people are not allowed to care about horses dying? Why does caring about horses dying and discussing it on a thread about the GN automatically mean that people don't care about the footballer?

I always hate it when that card is pulled everytime people express sadness over animals dying. It doesn't mean they care more about animals than humans.

 

[bryngelenponies]

I didn't watch it- I never do but when I heard about the two fatalities I was deeply upset for them. I'm truly disgusted by the race, every year horses die and for what? 'Entertainment' and money?!

 

[Jesstickle]

I'm afraid I'm going to say something totally scandalous now

It is only a horse.

There, I said it. They are replaceable. Even to me and I am very much an amateur with 'pets'

Whilst we have them we owe them a certain duty of care, to ensure they are fed and watered and kept as happy as possible, but ultimately they are possessions. I do things with my horse that may be considered dangerous by some (for example he is allowed to go hunting and XC which horrifies some people). He doesn't consent, he can't. He's a horse. If he breaks his neck, or his leg and I have to have him shot then it is sad but not the end of the world. I would replace him and do the same with the next one. His quality of life up to that point is what is important, not how he dies.

I think perhaps I am very much in the minority on this forum as I don't see the problem with doing potentially dangerous things with horses, as long as you are willing to make difficult decisions as a result of that.

Please feel free to send me hate mail, I won't even report you to TFC

 

[Honey08]

The only reason nobody is talking about the footballer is because it was in Italy, and hasn't really been put out on the news here yet. It will do, it is really sad, tragic, and shocking.. The reason everyone is talking about the National is it is something that practically the whole country watches...

Edited to say, perhaps its talked about more as it could perhaps have been prevented, whereas how do you prevent a young, fit footballer from having a heart attack..? The footballer was a true, very sad accident.. The horses accidents were a bit contrived and almost likely..

 

[Honeylight]

The tragedy is in modifying the course to make it safer they have succeeded in making it much more of a risk to horses.
They made the fences smaller so the horses go faster. They reduced the drops so horses go faster, jockeys don't take a "pull" any more before Bechers.
They got rid of all the drop fences & made silly obstacles at Haydock Park so there is now no effective trial for trainers to accustom horses to drop fences.
They put in escape chutes that horses don't seem to want to use & in doing so made the fences more narrow causing more horses to be brought down.
The thing is what else can they do?
Make a longer run in to the first?
Water heavily the night before?
Reduce the field size?
Make fences bigger again?
Cancel it all together?
My money is on the last option.
I feel gutted after seeing those horses lose their lives & I have been following racing at least 45 years.
Clare was upset because she had been to According To Pete's stable & spent the day with his owners.
My heart goes out to all the people who knew the two horses well. Hope Weird Al recovers.

 

[milesjess]

I think the same thread pops up every year when the national is run...

Personally, when I was younger I loved it, now I'm older I don't particulary enjoy it and feel nervous watching the race. I cringe whenever a horse falls down whether it's the national, cheltenham, badminton, showjumping etc...

I dont agree or disagree with it. The way I see it is that the race will be run regardless every year no matter how many horses die because they'll just amend the safety as best as they can to try to justify it and it's so traditional that there would be an uproar. However I love seeing these horses doing what they love, fit and at their peak.

I have no doubt in my mind that the loses from today hit all the horses connections hard.

But the main thing is that they now RIP and are never forgotten and that the others horses injured make a full recovery.

 

[dressagelove]

I'm afraid I'm going to say something totally scandalous now

It is only a horse.

There, I said it. They are replaceable. Even to me and I am very much an amateur with 'pets'

Whilst we have them we owe them a certain duty of care, to ensure they are fed and watered and kept as happy as possible, but ultimately they are possessions. I do things with my horse that may be considered dangerous by some (for example he is allowed to go hunting and XC which horrifies some people). He doesn't consent, he can't. He's a horse. If he breaks his neck, or his leg and I have to have him shot then it is sad but not the end of the world. I would replace him and do the same with the next one. His quality of life up to that point is what is important, not how he dies.

I think perhaps I am very much in the minority on this forum as I don't see the problem with doing potentially dangerous things with horses, as long as you are willing to make difficult decisions as a result of that.

Please feel free to send me hate mail, I won't even report you to TFC

The point is at the end of the day, the horses DO NOT choose to do it. They are herd animals and the national is making money out of utilising the herd instinct, pushing them harder and harder. As more intelligent beings we should not even put other animals in the position.

 

[indie999]

Money is the motive too and the footballer chose to do football, he didnt have to do it. Animals dont choose what we choose for them. Thats the difference.

Its greed and money too.

 

[SusannaF]

Let's be honest.


Animals die for the entertainment of most of the people on this forum.

They are turned into shoes we don't need, into leather saddles we don't need, into food for cats and dogs that we don't need to keep either.

We're *all* greedy. Greedy for those shoes or for our pet cat to cuddle. We're all implicated.

 

[Natch]

Thanks fools motto

I'm through with the national now, that will be the last time I watch it.

 

[WelshTilly]

I'm afraid I'm going to say something totally scandalous now

It is only a horse.

There, I said it. They are replaceable. Even to me and I am very much an amateur with 'pets'

Whilst we have them we owe them a certain duty of care, to ensure they are fed and watered and kept as happy as possible, but ultimately they are possessions. I do things with my horse that may be considered dangerous by some (for example he is allowed to go hunting and XC which horrifies some people). He doesn't consent, he can't. He's a horse. If he breaks his neck, or his leg and I have to have him shot then it is sad but not the end of the world. I would replace him and do the same with the next one. His quality of life up to that point is what is important, not how he dies.

I think perhaps I am very much in the minority on this forum as I don't see the problem with doing potentially dangerous things with horses, as long as you are willing to make difficult decisions as a result of that.

Please feel free to send me hate mail, I won't even report you to TFC

Well said ... I couldn't of put it better myself

 

[sally259]

It is very sad when horses are killed in racing ... any race, but there wouldn't be any racehorses if people didn't race them. The death of Syncronized, especially, is going to be 'publicity gold' for the animal rights protesters.

 

[tallyho!]

The GN brings out the true colours of some people.

 

[murphysmummy]

But do they choose to be ridden or choose to jump brightly coloured poles or choose to do piaffe? Don't turn this into a its not natural post! Horses are honest and they are kind and they will do what is asked of them and what they are trained to do. They don't always have a choice x

 

[Jesstickle]

Let's be honest.


Animals die for the entertainment of most of the people on this forum.

They are turned into shoes we don't need, into leather saddles we don't need, into food for cats and dogs that we don't need to keep either.

We're *all* greedy. Greedy for those shoes or for our pet cat to cuddle. We're all implicated.

I wish I had your eloquence. That is what, I very clumsily, wanted to say. There are reasons you are a published writer and I am not