Grand National 2012- Carnage! What did everyone think?

[sophiebailey]

Very sad at the deaths of synchro and pete had a lump in my throat when I heard the news, they were both beautiful animals and a shining example of their breed.

I have no idea how to make this race safe so as no horses are injured going forwards but I do think people implying these horses are killed for sport is wrong; the owners + trainers of these horses pour blood, sweat and tears (and a lot of money) into their animals, and from the experience of a friend, I have seen the heartache and guilt they feel when the worst happens to their pride and joy. Although racing is a business, not all horses are viewed as just 'commodities'. Although the jockey doesn't have a 'bond' or 'relationship' with the horse, their owners + trainers do, and feel the same loss we feel when we lose our pleasure horses.

Hopefully next year the powers that be will find some way of improving safety, I agree that reducing the size of the field could have a positive impact.

A sad day xx

 

[Cumulonimbus]

just watched the race again and can anyone confirm if it is Synchronised who is a loose horse that jumps a fence at 02:45 in this video here - if it is is it possible this is when his injury was sustained, looks a heavy stumble over that jump as he is keeping good pace with the 'herd' until then.

Looks like it could well be synchronised looking back to where he was when he started running again after Bechers and made his way to the back.

 

[Potato!]

I just watched the replay. Synchronised fell at beechers then carried on loose. He fell again at the 11th fence unfortunately where he broke his leg.

 

[Hollyberry]

Anybody who thinks this is acceptable is no horse lover, the whole thing is disgusting and cruel. Shame on those who bet on who would survive the course. I am absolutely horrified by the whole debacle.

 

[A1JUMPJOCKEY]

One problem is, is that the general Public and the Non-racing people on here aswell dont realise the screens go up for every Incident during the race. The screens you would of seen as they approached Beechers 2nd was for Noel Fehily with a broken leg. I had a fall in a Point to point last week was badly winded and was a bit giddy so they put the screens up and by-passed the fence on the next circuit. Very sad about both Horses and i feel for Conections but dont always think the worse when you see the dreeded green screens.

The biggest problem for me is that they have tinkered to much with the fences, Speed is an issue now as there not as upright so you dont have to back off them as much, more a case now of kicking into them instead. Saying that i rode in the FoxHunters in 2010 and they were plenty big enough then.

 

[dressagelove]

Humans ate meat long before they farmed crops and animals lived their lives until we killed them. No, we don't have to eat meat but we do have to eat, we don't have to assume animals are somehow worth less than us because we eat them. There are so many of us bloomin humans that we do have to farm now to feed ourselves but we don't have to use animals for entertainment at all. We abuse animals in so many ways but to then say it's ok because this or that is worse doesn't help any individuals plight or senseless and demeaning death.

It reminds me of those morons who shoot animals for so called sport and then decry wolves and foxes for killing to eat... that is being a hypocrite.

The argument that racehorses have 'good' lives is also debatable imo.

Very well put Amanda.

 

[Mare Stare]

I also agree with the posts about the breeding focussing on speed. This morning my OH pointed at the picture of According To Pete that was in H&H magazine and remarked on his "spindly" legs. Maybe it was the camera angle, maybe it's because we are used to Doris's fat carthorse legs but maybe, just maybe, (and I am far from an expert) our NH horses are getting too light and fragile.

 

[amandap]

As I said earlier in the thread, we eat animals and animal products out of choice. We live in an era in which we could all be vegan and avoid using leather etc. We choose to consume animals because we like it.

Be honest with yourself. It's not the same thing as condoning abuse - it's avoiding being a hypocrite.

I'm wildly inconsistent. I wouldn't eat horse meat but by God I'm sure that plenty of animals have had miserable lives so that I could have a salami sandwich hundreds of times in my life. Ditto my pile of leather shoes and boots.

Do I worry about intensive factory farming? Yes, it's disgusting. Did I avoid watching the National? Yes. But can I condemn it out of hand when I'm totally implicated in the suffering and fore-shortened lives of other animals? Not really, no. Unless I want to be a full-fat hypocrite.

So we should all shut up them? Is that really what you are saying?
Abuse takes many forms and much of it is done by humans who believe they are animal lovers... they love on their terms though.
This thread is about the National so that is what I am objecting to.
I can go on about Conklin Dairy Farms etc. etc. but don't think it is relevant to this thread.

 

[Jesstickle]

Humans ate meat long before they farmed crops and animals lived their lives until we killed them. No, we don't have to eat meat but we do have to eat, we don't have to assume animals are somehow worth less than us because we eat them. There are so many of us bloomin humans that we do have to farm now to feed ourselves but we don't have to use animals for entertainment at all. We abuse animals in so many ways but to then say it's ok because this or that is worse doesn't help any individuals plight or senseless and demeaning death.

It reminds me of those morons who shoot animals for so called sport and then decry wolves and foxes for killing to eat... that is being a hypocrite.

The argument that racehorses have 'good' lives is also debatable imo.

I'm not saying it's ok because of this or that. I'm saying that I, personally, am not a hypocrite and whilst I will still eat intensively reared pig from Tesco, and not check that things I buy are made with free range eggs, then who am I to bang on about the National? I could (as could others) choose to eat only ethically sourced products but I don't. How many people commenting on this thread to you think do? And how many of those that don't aren't even aware of how bad the situation is for livestock because it isn't on the telly/isn't anything to do with ponies? How many people do you think check products for the presence of palm oil etc?

If all the people who aren't ok with the National are doing their utmost to make sure they are doing right by all animals, fair play to them and I'll step down. However, if as I suspect, they happily turn a blind eye to the vast majority or animal welfare issues they directly buy in to I shall continue to call them out on it I'm afraid because I think all this vitriol could be put to better use in terms of reducing animal exploitation. Perhaps I should do a poll? Not today though, I think everyone's had enough of GN threads today

And only have a working knowledge of two racing yards. One first hand and one through a friend. All those horses were well treated by my standards. FWIW

 

[pixiebee]

The jockeys go into that race knowing exactly what to expect, that they could be injured or die but they do it still (for the money I guess!) the horses have no idea of the risks and don't choose to do it that's why I care slightly more about the horses than the jockeys in this case.
Not saying the horses life is worth more, just that the jockeys know what they are getting into and the risks.

this!

 

[mle22]

So I do eat only ethically produced meat - I also approve of the Grand National - I was also gutted about the death of two beautiful horses - I'm confused!

 

[Jesstickle]

So I do eat only ethically produced meat - and I also approve of the Grand National - I was also gutted about the death of two beautiful horses - I'm confused!

Yeah, I'm pretty confused too. I think I give up! Ironman 2 is on and Robert Downey Jr is looking particularly lush so I might go and do some male exploitation instead of my usual animal exploitation!

 

[Dab]

So I do eat only ethically produced meat - I also approve of the Grand National - I was also gutted about the death of two beautiful horses - I'm confused!

ditto
ditto
ditto

My horses are my top priority....

I'm not confused....

 

[Dab]

If all the people who aren't ok with the National are doing their utmost to make sure they are doing right by all animals, fair play to them and I'll step down. However, if as I suspect, they happily turn a blind eye to the vast majority or animal welfare issues they directly buy in to I shall continue to call them out on it I'm afraid because I think all this vitriol could be put to better use in terms of reducing animal exploitation. Perhaps I should do a poll? Not today though, I think everyone's had enough of GN threads today

^^^This although for this forum i would only go as far as to say doing right by all 'horses'.

How many are actively involved with some form of equine charity? or governing body that can make a difference?

 

[olop]

IMO racehorses are not bred the way they used to be. Google pics of the great dawn run, arkle etc and compare them to the racehorses of today - there is a huge difference. Until the inbreeding and intense breeding that goes on today continues, accidents like these will continue.

I don't condone the race, in fact I love racing and have always been a fan, the horses in training are the best kept in the world.

 

[georgiegirl]

Whilst it is tragic and very very sad that two horses were lost today in that race I think people need to be very very careful on saying it should be banned!

First off, it is not just the grand national that racehorses die in. There are LOADS of NH hunt horses and PTP horses put down each year due to injuries sustained due to their career - this may happen on the track in a horrible fall or may be afterwards due to lets say for eg a very bad tendon injury.

That said it also happens in more or less EVERY OTHER competitive horse sport too. Banning the national will eventually lead to other races being banned and filter on to other horse sports too.

Its interesting there was a post the other week about Sir Roscoe the event horse which was put down and someone came on and asked 'why isnt this getting the flack racing gets?'. Now at the time it wasnt the time or the place for that discussion as I and many others told the poster but the fact is they DO have a point. NH Racing and in particular the grand national is very much in the public eye. Eventing and Showjumping not so much but accidents do happen in these sports to wether it be in the competiton arena or an injury sustained through training etc which leads to having the horse put down. In my eyes, (speaking as a lover of eventing and showjumping myself) these are exactly the same as the racing just not so highy publicised.

Ive probably worded all the above wrong trying to get across what I mean!

That said we should do everything in our power to prevent fatal accidents like these wether its reinstating the bigger fences to slow them down, reducing the number of runners, having tougher qualifications for the race, reducing the length of it etc who knows???

Even so, terrible accidents will always happen with horses no matter what people do and wether any of the above alterations would have prevented losing those two horses today we will never know.

I applaud and have huge admiration for the brave jockeys and horses who negotiate the GN - it truely is on of the most gruelling NH tests. Out of intrest does anyone know what the death rate statistics are for the pardubice?

 

[texel]

Many horse die every day across the world in the name of sport - there may be outrage but very quickly it becomes yesterday's news.

When money and investment is involved the misuse of horses will continue and the deaths of horses will continue. Racehorses are dispensible when one goes there is another to take it's place the cycle continues.

 

[lhotse]

Having watched the race again, Syncronised is still galloping after the pack at the bypassed fence, and I can't see that he is injured at that point either. It's possible that the fracture was caused when he pulled up around Bechers as tired muscles can work in opposition and quite easily cause a fracture. According to Pete clearly had an injury as soon as he got up though.
The tabloids will no doubt have a field day tomorrow with pictures of the screens around the stricken horses (it was up around a jockey). I have to say that I don't like seeing horses injured in racing, but they do get the best of care throughout, and if they are injured, they are seen to immediately by a skilled veterinary team.

I am relieved that the jockey behind the screens is ok, albeit with a broken leg, and mightly relieved that Ruby Walsh escaped serious injury in his fall earlier in the day, his helmet was actually cracked down the middle.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

The GN is not the race it used to be. Years ago the ground conditions were normally heavy and the race was a true test of stamina, now it is more of speed, so when it goes wrong the horses land harder and faster. The lowering of the fences has also meant less careful jumpers go round.

 

[superpony]

Apparently weird al is going to be ok, which is great news. Very sad about synchronise and according to pete though.

 

[ebonyallen]

Very sad, but nothing any of say will change it. Next year we will be having another thread on the same topic, and so it will continue.

 

[Ibblebibble]

I'm not saying it's ok because of this or that. I'm saying that I, personally, am not a hypocrite and whilst I will still eat intensively reared pig from Tesco, and not check that things I buy are made with free range eggs, then who am I to bang on about the National? I could (as could others) choose to eat only ethically sourced products but I don't. How many people commenting on this thread to you think do? And how many of those that don't aren't even aware of how bad the situation is for livestock because it isn't on the telly/isn't anything to do with ponies? How many people do you think check products for the presence of palm oil etc?

If all the people who aren't ok with the National are doing their utmost to make sure they are doing right by all animals, fair play to them and I'll step down. However, if as I suspect, they happily turn a blind eye to the vast majority or animal welfare issues they directly buy in to I shall continue to call them out on it I'm afraid because I think all this vitriol could be put to better use in terms of reducing animal exploitation. Perhaps I should do a poll? Not today though, I think everyone's had enough of GN threads today

very well put and i totally agree and understand where you are coming from.
I would be very interested to know how many of those lambasting the GN have actually taken any steps to make their feelings known to the relevant authorities, how many actively campaign to get it stopped?
I would also like those who say that it's cruel because the horses don't have a choice to explain how they justify their own riding and keeping of horses, no horse has ever actually chosen to be ridden, we coerce or force every single one of them to varying degrees.

 

[Tamba]

Don't stop posting horseluver, I agree with you. Am losing respect for some posters on here who profess to be horse lovers, its sad.

me, as well, cant believe people see things like that, how on earth can you compare cows, sheep that are bred to be eaten to horses, and in particular magnificent althetes like racehorses. If they banned the race, then 15 odd horses wouldnt be falling in one race, and there wouldnt be two fatalities in one race.. its never going to improve, and every year its a mess.. which now I cant watch it anymore..All in the name of greed..oh, how I wish I had the power to stop it.

 

[Tamba]

very well put and i totally agree and understand where you are coming from.
I would be very interested to know how many of those lambasting the GN have actually taken any steps to make their feelings known to the relevant authorities, how many actively campaign to get it stopped?
I would also like those who say that it's cruel because the horses don't have a choice to explain how they justify their own riding and keeping of horses, no horse has ever actually chosen to be ridden, we coerce or force every single one of them to varying degrees.

And on that note, can anyone wishing to be included let me know, Im going to draft a letter tomorrow to send to both the Manager at Aintree and the PM. You can call me crazy, I dont care.

 

[topclass]

Im so sorry but I just cant watch it, it just brings me to tears every single time its betting on which horse will survive personally I feel like its russian roulette but having had an ex racer who had been hit so hard with a racing whip that the whip had broken and damaged the muscle on his body it brings me to tears, sorry If ive upset a lot of people but for me its horrific. RIP horses

 

[Firewell]

This is what I wrote to the post in Latest News, it's basically my thoughts:-

I think the subject of the GN and racing is such a complicated and sensitive one with so many pro's and con's, it's really very hard for me to take sides.
However I do know I did not enjoy watching the carnage one bit. Yes it's nice to have thrills and spills but it's almost like watching a blood sport when it's so dangerous for the horses and the jockeys.
The start was a total farce and an embarassment. I agree with the poster who said this was partly to blame. They need to get rid of that bloody tape, if some are dwelling at back tough luck. They need to be able to jump off first time, what they should say is anyone seen on camera to be over the line on starters orders will be penalised after the race. That would soon keep them all back.
I think the field looks like it is too large. I know its the National and everything but the piles ups don't help. Its when a horse falls it brings down the ones behind who can't get out of the way in time.
Maybe back 100's of years ago when people were used to livestock being dead stock it was more acceptable but nowadays when horses are seen as pets more, it's a bitter pill to swallow.
Saying that, those two horses were probably more better off than a lot of horses in this world. It's sad but I'd be seriously stonkingly rich if I had a penny for every horse ruined by a fool. A lot worse things happen than a horse being well looked after and then dying in a race. It's a fact of life, can't save every horse from their fate. Stop racaing and then what happens to the TB's? A lot of their troubles start once they are passed on to joe blogs who has no clue. They didn't suffer and thats the main thing.
Racing has it's place but they are going to have to do something about the National to reduce the fatality rate or i'm not sure I'm going to be able to watch it. I see both sides but i'm still a horse lover. I love the history behind it and the fairy tale stories but it really upsets me to look at all the horses before the race and wonder which ones won't make it . It shouldn't be like that.

 

[Fii]

I eat meat, mostly locally grown, but not always, and my OH works on a dairy farm, (shock horror!!!) but even so, both of us has the right to stand up and say that the GN today was an absolute , uncontrolled, dangerous, ballsup from the start!! And we only watched the highlights!
The racing industry should hang their heads in shame, and get this race sorted or abandon it for good!!

 

[Jesstickle]

And on that note, can anyone wishing to be included let me know, Im going to draft a letter tomorrow to send to both the Manager at Aintree and the PM. You can call me crazy, I dont care.

Perhaps you should send a copy to the BHA as well.

 

[ruralconsultant]

Many horse die every day across the world in the name of sport - there may be outrage but very quickly it becomes yesterday's news.

Unbelievable attitude.

 

[Jackson]

Jesstickle, I used to enjoy reading your posts, but I think after reading your first post on here I have lost my respect for you The same goes for any one else that believes that any sort of life is replacable. It's people that think like this that leads to events (like the grand national..) that allow the deaths of unsuspecting animals to just carry on as they are.

I come from a racing family, my grandfather even had a runner in the national. I enjoy going to the races and have grown up on/visited/worked on quite a few different yards where all of the horses were bright, happy and well cared for, each with an individual character (some nicer than others!!)

These horses are bred for their job, and not necisarily to be loved and petted but that does not mean that their life is worth any less than any other! (human or equine *hides*)

They all appeared to love their work, although really, who knows what goes on in their heads. But, I am really confused as to how I feel about the GN. It's just not appropriate any more. Not for the type of horses that are being run in it, nor the ammount of horses being run and the changes that have been made to the course just accentuate the problem.

People have bred TBs to their limit and something has got to give. The horses are trained, fittened and tuned to their limits and things break.


RIP horses.