Copperpot
Well-Known Member
Team Chaser that is a very well put post and one I agree with.
That's fine to feel that way about your own animals, I feel that way about mine, but do you really think that horses as a species should all be valued that highly by all humans? Race horses are largely bred for what they can physically do for people and they would be a bit pointless if they weren't given the opportunities to do it. These horses are worth thousands, nobody wants them to die, but horses have to have a purpose unless they are particularly lucky and loved as someone's pet, and for many horses their purpose is to run the Grand National, and its not a bad gig for all the horses who didn't die and will be heading off on their summer hols right about now.
I do try to buy ethically, but then convenience takes over again. That's awful isn't it?
One day I'll have a little small holding with my own cows and sheep and pigs and they'll all live happily until I decide I want to eat them. Will have to win the lottery first of course. And curb my enthusiasm for junk food as I'm pretty sure Dominoe's don't care where their meat comes from!
I'm really not arguing that we shouldn't try and make the National safer, just that I find the level of outcry disproportionate when viewed along side other issues. Which doesn't mean we shouldn't try and make this safer, but perhaps we could all do a little bit more in general for animal welfare. Or at least accept that we might not all have an unblotted copy book.
It is one of my bug bears on the forum that people use overly emotive language about these things. I personally have more than one level of disgust. I am saddened by the deaths today, I still enjoyed the race. I can't understand how people can use the same language about a couple of dead horses as they would about a murder or rape or child abuse or the situation in Syria etc, etc. I suppose I am just not a great fan of hyperbole and threads like this always seem to contain it in spades and it just sets me off. Like a crotchety old woman![]()
Is there anywhere that shows the odds just before the race for each horse? In compliance finished 4th at 100-1 but I wondered if the other outsiders where the ones that fell at early fences?
I think if this was the case then it would definitely be something to look into and a strong case for a smaller field.
. But, I do think there was an unacceptable number of falls, IMO probably due to the greater speed allowed by the "improvemnts", I'm sure in past years more pulled up or refused.
Team Chaser that is a very well put post and one I agree with.
I always back a "no hoper" so I tend to remember the horses with 100-1 odds plus. I had Neptune Equester(sp) at 150-1... It finished 13th. The horses who finished 7th and 8th were 100-1 shots IIRC. Looking at a list of the early fallers, most of them had set off with a decent chance IMO.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/horse-racing/grand-national-full-results-the-winner-795334
Maybe the Grand National just is what it is and we should face the danger and stop complaining? I don't know. It gives us something to discuss anyway.![]()
I did hear on the radio that since the safety measures were introduced over the last few years deaths have gone up not down.
So I wondered if a few factors were coming together.
Smaller fences so horses going faster.
Drier springs which mean the ground is harder and faster, horses more likely to fall at speed and more likely to do serious damage if they do. More horses get tired and pulled up in the mud.
Have the horses changed? Less old fashioned chaser types who can jump but are slower partly due to the smaller fences.
Not sure, but if the number of deaths have increased then whatever changes are being made are the wrong changes.
I think you have to take each issue on its own merit, So argue about the GN and why you disagree/agree with it, without bringing in farming issues, rape or child abuse into it, they have nothing to do with what we are talking about!
I can get just as wound up about animal abuse as i can child abuse, but the two dont come up in the same conversation, so arent comparable as an argument!
Blows that theory out the water!
I didn't bring rape etc in as part of my argument, was more general chit chat about the forum annoying me.
And I think farming issues are directly pertinent to why I personally don't have a problem with the National. And that is what I said. I personally couldn't criticise the National, and I personally think a horse is just a horse, because of my far wider own beliefs and habits.
I'm sorry. I don't categorise things like that, I don't think I should be basing my opinions soley on what has happened in the last half an hour or what I've seen on the telly. I base my opinions and my morals on what is happening in the wider world and what has shaped my life. Modern farming directly contributes to why I agree with the National. I'm sorry it annoys you that I don't reason the same way you do.
I totally agree, and feel strongly about it as well, which is why Im writing a letter, I think the more people complain and voice their view against it, the more likely things will change, I heard that some of the celebrities who were present at the race, were disgusted as well, they carry weight, so hopefully they will complain as well. I know I will be.I am appalled and shocked at what I witnessed in today's national. SOMETHING DRASTIC NEEDS TO BE DONE!!!!!!!!!!
I believe less runners and altering the landing side of Becher's MUST BE DONE!!!
What does everyone else think and can we do anything as Horse and Hound readers to prevent this utter carnage happening again???
Not necessarily, there is a reason why the elite marathon runners start in a different location to Joe Public. But regardless a smaller field would be prefereable.
I am appalled and shocked at what I witnessed in today's national. SOMETHING DRASTIC NEEDS TO BE DONE!!!!!!!!!!
I believe less runners and altering the landing side of Becher's MUST BE DONE!!!
What does everyone else think and can we do anything as Horse and Hound readers to prevent this utter carnage happening again???
FWIW, I'm actually shocked at how many of the rank outsiders completed or pulled up safely late on. The fallers were mostly flipping fast horses.
Maybe that shows the odds are mainly based on speed rather than stamina and jumping ability?
Can't watch won't watch, never have never will. My ex racer tucked up in bed tonight safe and sound and I thank my lucky stars she is with me and not on the racecourse anymore
FWIW, I'm actually shocked at how many of the rank outsiders completed or pulled up safely late on. The fallers were mostly flipping fast horses.
Maybe that shows the odds are mainly based on speed rather than stamina and jumping ability?
Something must be done!!! It was a heatbreaking race to watch!!!
Poor poor Synchornised he shouldn't have been allowed to race after the spook incident. He'd already run half a mile and should not have been included.
AND
Poor, poor, poor "According to Pete" who fell, because another horse had fallen. The poor horse didn't have a chance at Bechers!!!!! I watched that lovely family on the "Build up" to the race. They must be devastated, they didn't deserve that and neither did their amazing horse.
They chose to enter the horse in the race, no one forced them to!
If only those who deserved to die did, of any species, the planet would be overrun!
On a more serious note, the speed of the race does seem to cause most of the problems, and ways of slowing it down may be the safest option, perhaps with watered ground and higher fences. I have to say that I quite understand Jesstickles point of view.