Happy Days For ISH Breeders

[JANANI]

RE:

''Here is a real good one! From the same family as Sea The Stars!
http://www.holsteiner-verband.de/cms...rt=449&pageno= ''

(Sorry Eothin for going of topic)

The sire of that horse 'Winged Love'. I have always admired so it is interesting that the Holsteiner have used him. This is a picture of him when he stood at Scarvagh House Stud.

http://www.scarvagh.com/horses/stallions/winged_love/

He stands at Tullyraine Stud in Co Down and I would have considered him if I hadn't used a dumblood two years ago. We had used Perpendicular who also stood at Tullyraine previous to this. And I am not breeding any more otherwise I will end up divorced.

I would of thought that most studs with the state of the TB market (Plenty of my clients which breed TBs are leaving their mares empty this year) the smaller studs would consider giving a special non TB rate.

If we can't use the likes of presenting himself surely we could use some of his daughters as with current economic enviroment they would be more affordable than they would have been in the past.

Just my thoughts

JANA

 

[Simsar]

I have taken this off the TB post as I felt it had a cross over to this discussion and wanted to reply to it here.

My views on the role of TBs in sport horse breeding can be found here, in an article published almost two years ago:

http://morningside-stud.com/gpage19.html

Tom Reed

Interesting reading Tom.

I have to say that from this and other posts with a large Irish contingent, I find it really sad and disheartening that a lot of you seem so willing to give up on the very horses that made the Irish sport horse industry to start of with, i keep saying this but why not improve your horses off your own backs, with careful breeding and good production and don't give me any of this the ISH isn't up to it, neither were any of the WB's when they started their modern breeding programs, but they were selective and spent the time and money on producing the best from what they had! Most nations started with a heavier type of horse and bred in the athleticism from the TB. Now you have the modern Holsteiner, Hanoverian, KWPN etc etc, which you are now crossing with your ISH. How is it that they have managed to do what you want to with such success, yet Ireland have been left behind when essentially you had the same breeding goals?

Hope this makes sense

 

[AdAblurr]

Yep - it's High Tension. I LOVE that stallion (and before TFC comes down on me like a ton of bricks,I am in NO way connected with the stallion or the stud. I just think he's one of the best put together TB stallions I've seen in a long time!! And yes, Simsar is right - he's had an accident so having this year off - hell of a shame!

Janet, when I first saw your posted pic, my first thought was WOW, he looks just like *Paranoide, the sire of our senior mare, who is a fabulous producer - and her latest filly (by our RID boy, who is your boy's kid brother) is her best yet. This TB type is a lovely cross to the traditional ID horse.

I think you are right, though - correct conformation that is consistent through the parentage, soundness, movement - and we look also for temperament, as our market here is nearly 100% ammie owner/riders. Can't sell a horse that is not amateur friendly. Hard to find all of that in TB now, no matter where you look.

 

[rebel mountain]

maybe this is just me but i think with the talented stallion people we have in this country i do believe there is a TB horse out there how is going to make it in the next 10 years
watch this space

 

[Eothain]

Possibly, but what is "making it"? TB stallions will have to be tested in open competition themselves which along with a very many other things is something I want to do.

I'm gonna attempt to find a nice NH-bred young colt and produce him as a showjumper up to GP level. It didn't really work for Loughahoe Guy however, there's nothing to say it'd work for a stallion of mine

 

[ewf]

Question: How many IDs are SJI-ing at >1.30??

Also when people are asking about TB Stallions, are imported approved stallions like Zero Watt and Jacksons Drift not breeding quality or are they not getting quality mares?

 

[JanetGeorge]

Question: How many IDs are SJI-ing at >1.30??

Not TOO many, I'd think. I'm watching Diamond Design and Drumri from a distance: they seem to have a very nice jump as tro be expected from their breeding. And I have a mare who is a full sister to Drumri who was never really tried properly jumping, but has a hell of a pop!

The problem is not the power to jump the height - but most are just a bit heavy to be constantly LANDING from that height. I wouldn't want to risk a big RID stallion jumping TOO high TOO often! Having had a top TB SJ in my day (which was long ago!) my ideal sj prospect if I was still young enough would be a GOOD NZ NH mare to a GOOD RID jumping stallion (assumingthat the NZ NH types are as good now as they were 30 years ago!)

 

[rebel mountain]

Possibly, but what is "making it"? TB stallions will have to be tested in open competition themselves which along with a very many other things is something I want to do.

I'm gonna attempt to find a nice NH-bred young colt and produce him as a showjumper up to GP level. It didn't really work for Loughahoe Guy however, there's nothing to say it'd work for a stallion of mine

eothain this is just my opinion but i think you could be setting yourself up for a fall

i have seen this being done with power blade and market square both were good but i don't think they could be handled after all were talking about animals who are bred to run flat out from A to B

my definition of making it is master imp a horse who got show horses and show jumpers

 

[ewf]

Not TOO many, I'd think. I'm watching Diamond Design and Drumri from a distance: they seem to have a very nice jump as tro be expected from their breeding. And I have a mare who is a full sister to Drumri who was never really tried properly jumping, but has a hell of a pop!

The problem is not the power to jump the height - but most are just a bit heavy to be constantly LANDING from that height. I wouldn't want to risk a big RID stallion jumping TOO high TOO often! Having had a top TB SJ in my day (which was long ago!) my ideal sj prospect if I was still young enough would be a GOOD NZ NH mare to a GOOD RID jumping stallion (assumingthat the NZ NH types are as good now as they were 30 years ago!)

mmmm, I was expecting more from their competition records

My OH s'jumps a 6yo S1(never performance tested) ID stallion. We've spent this year reschooling him as he was badly started. I've been reading this thread thinking of this, wondering how many potential superstars were runined this way...

Anyway, he should be jumping 1.10/1.20 this year and hopefully doing the spring 1.35 league next year.

To me his breeding shows that no matter the breed or type if you breed right you get excellence. He's by GP jumping RID out of a mare who had a hell of a jump by a sire of showjumpers. His 3/4 brother(same dam and sires sire) was bred using the same formula and came back from the states with 130 sj points, alot from 1.30s.

His next cover is a lovely leggy athletic 16'3 TB and I can't wait to see the result

 

[rebel mountain]

mmmm, I was expecting more from their competition records

My OH s'jumps a 6yo S1(never performance tested) ID stallion. We've spent this year reschooling him as he was badly started. I've been reading this thread thinking of this, wondering how many potential superstars were runined this way...

Anyway, he should be jumping 1.10/1.20 this year and hopefully doing the spring 1.35 league next year.

To me his breeding shows that no matter the breed or type if you breed right you get excellence. He's by GP jumping RID out of a mare who had a hell of a jump by a sire of showjumpers. His 3/4 brother(same dam and sires sire) was bred using the same formula and came back from the states with 130 sj points, alot from 1.30s.

His next cover is a lovely leggy athletic 16'3 TB and I can't wait to see the result

whats the name of your stallion what is his breeding?

 

[GrassHorse]

I have just got back from the three year old loose jumping at Warrington. There was some really classy horses there. Two boys and two girls go through from each venue. The boys were by Olympic Lux and Guidam. The girls were by OBOS Quality and Lux Z( My Filly ) Im delighted!
There was a really nice Clinton stallion there too

 

[hati]

so after 3 attempts and very kind vets who will AI a mare at 10pm, my mare is now in foal to Puissance......(she was scanned yesterday with twins so one was squeezed)

So glad i went down the Irish breeding route this year and fingers crossed I get a nice filly! will know in 11 months time!

 

[rebel mountain]

what is the mare you put in foal to puissance by?

 

[hati]

she is called Ringwood Hati - she is by Senang Hati out of a Carnival night mare and was bred by the late Michael Leonard.

 

[Eothain]

Fantastic decision. Puissance is an utterly amazing stallion. We Senang Hati and Carnival Night breeding, that could be a future Badminton contender!

Yes Reb, chances are it could blow up in my face but shir look, what else would I be doing?

 

[hati]

Fantastic decision. Puissance is an utterly amazing stallion. We Senang Hati and Carnival Night breeding, that could be a future Badminton contender!

thanks! so only 11 months to wait now and then possibly another 6 years to see if it any good....

 

[gadetra]

Think loughohoe Guy only left competition cos he was injured-he was with the army wasn't he? then private stud. look at French Buffet though-there's a Tb who raced etc. and jumped up to 1.40-1.60. I t is possible. But it is all in the temprement. As RM said they're designed to go from A to B as fast as possible.
Love Senang Hati-think he was very underrated as an eventing sire. and carnaval Night-what a nicely bred mare!

 

[GrassHorse]

I think finding a thoroughbred that can jump is easier said than done. I commend people who try it. Hand in Glove was a great example of a thoroughbred who could do dressage and show jumping. He compted in international classes in both disciplines. He came from america, I think he raced there too. Ive rode one of those big scopy american thoroughbreds, they are very different to what we have here.

Eothain, there are some of Ladykillers family alive in Ireland, it could be a starting point?

 

[hati]

Love Senang Hati-think he was very underrated as an eventing sire. and carnaval Night-what a nicely bred mare!

thank you! I am very lucky that she has such good/nice bloodlines

 

[magic104]

65 pgs!! I have missed a lot out, but would endorse now as in the past those that mention production of these fine horses. You can breed top horses all you like, but if they end up in the wrong hands they wont go anywhere. Coolcorron Cool Diamond was also mentioned & I agree his stud fee was far too expensive. What a crying shame that one of his stallion sons ended up with a bunch of numpties to produce, he went from pillar to post & is now back in Ireland. He was without doubt poorly managed/marketed, the fact he only had 1 foal recorded for 2008 is a sad state of affairs.

There seems to be a huge choice of stallions, so why are the Irish allowing stallions with poor conformation grade, as seen earlier on another thread?

 

[hati]

You mention Cool Corran Cool Diamond - I am very lucky that I own 2 legs of a fablous mare by him out of an Ard Alley Cat mare - she is only 7 and came 25th this year in the 1 star at Tatts and has been longlisted for YR team training.

I can't wait to get a foal from her in the future - though we may consider embryo transfer in the next year or two.

 

[flyingharp]

To me his breeding shows that no matter the breed or type if you breed right you get excellence. He's by GP jumping RID out of a mare who had a hell of a jump by a sire of showjumpers. His 3/4 brother(same dam and sires sire) was bred using the same formula and came back from the states with 130 sj points, alot from 1.30s.

Poking my head in from lurkdom...ewf, are you talking about Prescott's Diamond (Flagmount King ex The Blarney Rose/Holycross)? Saw him jump at his inspections and thought he had more than a bit of talent over poles (free-jumping anyway). Quite good mover for an RID as well, and ID-typey.

Would be interested to see pics of the 3/4 brother if this is the horse you mean.

Liz in America

 

[Eothain]

Interesting fact about Coolcorron Cool Diamond: There were more foals born in France by him in 2006 than in Ireland

 

[magic104]

This link shows a nice example of one of CCD's daughters & photos of her offspring, the sort I assume some of you guys are aiming for? http://www.sporthorse-data.com/db.php?i=10508881&time=1277401767

I have to say the ones I have seen including the son had good movement & have been nice looking horses. I saw another son about 4yrs ago eventing at Novice level, but cant remember his name. He does not seem to have covered that many mares, info taken from 1999 16 Mares Covered in 1998, 15 Foals registered in 1999 (7 Colts, 8 Fillies). 26 Foals Registered in total (12 Colts, 14 Fillies). In 1999 he covered 26 mares with 21 foals being recorded. In 2002 only 18 foals recorded from 25 mares covered, this is nothing compared to other stallions listed. Though Cougar only manged 5 foals that year from 9 mares covered in 2001. Coverings for 2001 were 260 by TB sires, 237 ID's, 483 ISH, 38 WNTR & 277 Foreign Breed sires. In 2006 though Cougar covered 34 mares with 28 reg in 2007.

Has anyone seen 2006 Corgary Flash bred by Denis Noone who is ex of a Cruising mare (Castle Cruising) by Watervalley Cool Diamond? Curious to see what this mix produces.

 

[hati]

wow interesting fact to see that CCD covered more mares in France than in Ireland in recent years.

A picture of the CCD mare that we have eventing at the minute
http://www.sportingimagesni.co.uk/m..._Photographer_2&id=_M2K9405.jpg&pg=3&count=96

 

[magic104]

wow interesting fact to see that CCD covered more mares in France than in Ireland in recent years.

A picture of the CCD mare that we have eventing at the minute
http://www.sportingimagesni.co.uk/m..._Photographer_2&id=_M2K9405.jpg&pg=3&count=96

You cant be unhappy with that one. Is she easy to deal with also? Just the few I have met have been very nice people, quiet chilled in their outlook, despite in one case the mare being a highly strung individual. I could not justify his stud fee for my mare which is why I used a son. Sadly he was too small, but has the most laid back temperment & shows a good clean pair of heels over a fence.

 

[GrassHorse]

CCD is approved by the Selle Francais studbook. Not to many Irish horses hold such a prestigious title. Cruising and Sea Creast also App SF. I think Irish breeders are going back to CCD this year, I know one person who plans to go with two mares.

 

[hati]

You cant be unhappy with that one. Is she easy to deal with also? Just the few I have met have been very nice people, quiet chilled in their outlook, despite in one case the mare being a highly strung individual. I could not justify his stud fee for my mare which is why I used a son. Sadly he was too small, but has the most laid back temperment & shows a good clean pair of heels over a fence.

she has the most fantastic tempermant - her biggest problem is food! She loves her food and is constantly on a diet.

 

[magic104]

she has the most fantastic tempermant - her biggest problem is food! She loves her food and is constantly on a diet. - The grnd son's the same though he is possessive over his & was the only time he put his ears back!

 

[magic104]

Forgot I had a photo of the CCD horse at MK, it was the same year my mare went in-foal to one of his son's.