Taboo1968
Well-Known Member
Just watched it too and it is clear that the horse had no energy from quite early on..... At least he is uninjured tho......
Harry Meade and Dunauger
- Thread starter Springback
- Start date
EveningStar
Well-Known Member
That horse is gorgeous and what a darling for even attempting that last jump.
Surely the half hearted attempt at the corner should have tipped Harry off? :S
Hope Dunauger is ok
Surely the half hearted attempt at the corner should have tipped Harry off? :S
Hope Dunauger is ok
anj789
Well-Known Member
We were watching on the big screen in the main arena - had commented that it looked knackered and a bit wrong behind (poss tying up?). I thought he'd pulled up when I now presume he was trying to remember the long route - saw him get lost in the dressage test on MD so no surprise there! - then couldn't believe he cantered it in a half-ar**d circle and presented to the fence. I'm amazed the horse even tried to take off - he should be shot for that, ridiculously poor judgement from any rider let alone a pro, something was clearly very wrong.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think it is fair that he is not then allowed to compete his other horse. He's a pro rider, that horse was absolutely shattered - he should have stopped way before that point. He's damn lucky the horse didn't hurt himself. As punishment for not choosing to pull up then yes absolutely do I think its fair.
mbequest
Well-Known Member
Harry is a very naughty boy imo, and needs a spanking for his behaviour yesterday.......
form an orderly que please ladies, me first!!
form an orderly que please ladies, me first!!
thermidor08
Well-Known Member
Very very bad judgement at the very least on his part... He certainly should have known better, the horse is visably struggling a fair few fences before hand
dingle12
Well-Known Member
Just watched it and i hope he gets a nice big fine
horse kept telling him he had enough very very bad judgement just glad the horse is ok.
Mithras
Well-Known Member
I agree with Starman. I was expecting to see something much worse and all I saw was a horse that was a bit fatigued and beginning to be careless over his jumps, but until this point, still getting over them. Pretty par for the course for eventing I would have thought. Perhaps Harry Meade has never ridden a horse that has got this tired at this stage of the course before and perhaps he thought the horse had lost confidence and needed just to go forwards more, and was riding accordingly. Thats the only reason I can think he would be trying to go on after accumulating faults. I think the circling was also perhaps because the horse wasn't giving him the right feel and in the heat of the competition, he wasn't able to work out why.
Theres been much worse examples of tired horses in eventing than this so I find the almost witch hunt a bit distasteful. I remember commenting last year on I think Andrew Hoy continually smacking that grey horse during his round, which eventually stopped and dumped him, and I was criticised for saying the horse wasn't going off his leg and clearly had a problem doing cross country.
The thing with horses is that they can get totally exhausted, look dead on their feet, and after a good rest, totally recover. How many eventers nurse their tired horses round? I'm sure its not new. That horse of Harry Meade's was still moving and jumping and although eventing personally isn't my cup of tea, as I say, I've seen far worse.
[ QUOTE ]
Apologies for only singling this comment out, but - horrific misjudgement? I really don't think so. I was expecting to see a display of horsemanship resembling Amy Tyron's (or whatever that wench is called), and it's nowhere near. The horse did look tired, but i wouldn't have said it was in an extreme state. The rare times i watch eventing (apologies, but bounces of wood carved into Ducks and the like really isn't my thing) i often see horses who are extremely on the forehand, being held up by the rider, blowing like steam trains... Can barely stomach it some times
Looked to me like Harry wanted to get him over that jump and was then going to call it a day. Sod's law it wasn't as smooth as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Theres been much worse examples of tired horses in eventing than this so I find the almost witch hunt a bit distasteful. I remember commenting last year on I think Andrew Hoy continually smacking that grey horse during his round, which eventually stopped and dumped him, and I was criticised for saying the horse wasn't going off his leg and clearly had a problem doing cross country.
The thing with horses is that they can get totally exhausted, look dead on their feet, and after a good rest, totally recover. How many eventers nurse their tired horses round? I'm sure its not new. That horse of Harry Meade's was still moving and jumping and although eventing personally isn't my cup of tea, as I say, I've seen far worse.
[ QUOTE ]
Apologies for only singling this comment out, but - horrific misjudgement? I really don't think so. I was expecting to see a display of horsemanship resembling Amy Tyron's (or whatever that wench is called), and it's nowhere near. The horse did look tired, but i wouldn't have said it was in an extreme state. The rare times i watch eventing (apologies, but bounces of wood carved into Ducks and the like really isn't my thing) i often see horses who are extremely on the forehand, being held up by the rider, blowing like steam trains... Can barely stomach it some times
Looked to me like Harry wanted to get him over that jump and was then going to call it a day. Sod's law it wasn't as smooth as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
I haven't watched the vid so can't justifyably comment except to say it sounds as if the rider didn't realise how bad his horse was feeling, and will no doubt know next time...
HM is young, determined and he's a bloke, and they do tend to be more forceful under these sort of circumstances, when their determination can overcome common sense.
He'll learn from it, and boy would I not want to be him when his Father talks to him, can you imagine what he will say!! (especially as I heard recently his Father's legendary charm was absent when judging Futurity classes, perhaps he's turning into a Grumpy Old Man....)
I do hope the horse fully recovers and hasn't lost confidence through Harry's mistake.
HM is young, determined and he's a bloke, and they do tend to be more forceful under these sort of circumstances, when their determination can overcome common sense.
He'll learn from it, and boy would I not want to be him when his Father talks to him, can you imagine what he will say!! (especially as I heard recently his Father's legendary charm was absent when judging Futurity classes, perhaps he's turning into a Grumpy Old Man....)
I do hope the horse fully recovers and hasn't lost confidence through Harry's mistake.
dingle12
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Starman. I was expecting to see something much worse and all I saw was a horse that was a bit fatigued and beginning to be careless over his jumps, but until this point, still getting over them. Pretty par for the course for eventing I would have thought. Perhaps Harry Meade has never ridden a horse that has got this tired at this stage of the course before and perhaps he thought the horse had lost confidence and needed just to go forwards more, and was riding accordingly. Thats the only reason I can think he would be trying to go on after accumulating faults. I think the circling was also perhaps because the horse wasn't giving him the right feel and in the heat of the competition, he wasn't able to work out why.
Theres been much worse examples of tired horses in eventing than this so I find the almost witch hunt a bit distasteful. I remember commenting last year on I think Andrew Hoy continually smacking that grey horse during his round, which eventually stopped and dumped him, and I was criticised for saying the horse wasn't going off his leg and clearly had a problem doing cross country.
The thing with horses is that they can get totally exhausted, look dead on their feet, and after a good rest, totally recover. How many eventers nurse their tired horses round? I'm sure its not new. That horse of Harry Meade's was still moving and jumping and although eventing personally isn't my cup of tea, as I say, I've seen far worse.
[ QUOTE ]
Apologies for only singling this comment out, but - horrific misjudgement? I really don't think so. I was expecting to see a display of horsemanship resembling Amy Tyron's (or whatever that wench is called), and it's nowhere near. The horse did look tired, but i wouldn't have said it was in an extreme state. The rare times i watch eventing (apologies, but bounces of wood carved into Ducks and the like really isn't my thing) i often see horses who are extremely on the forehand, being held up by the rider, blowing like steam trains... Can barely stomach it some times
Looked to me like Harry wanted to get him over that jump and was then going to call it a day. Sod's law it wasn't as smooth as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
And if the horse was killed there would be a bigger uproar. There could of been a bigger accident Harry should of called it a day a long time before that fence. I hope he gets some punishment for his riding.
I agree with Starman. I was expecting to see something much worse and all I saw was a horse that was a bit fatigued and beginning to be careless over his jumps, but until this point, still getting over them. Pretty par for the course for eventing I would have thought. Perhaps Harry Meade has never ridden a horse that has got this tired at this stage of the course before and perhaps he thought the horse had lost confidence and needed just to go forwards more, and was riding accordingly. Thats the only reason I can think he would be trying to go on after accumulating faults. I think the circling was also perhaps because the horse wasn't giving him the right feel and in the heat of the competition, he wasn't able to work out why.
Theres been much worse examples of tired horses in eventing than this so I find the almost witch hunt a bit distasteful. I remember commenting last year on I think Andrew Hoy continually smacking that grey horse during his round, which eventually stopped and dumped him, and I was criticised for saying the horse wasn't going off his leg and clearly had a problem doing cross country.
The thing with horses is that they can get totally exhausted, look dead on their feet, and after a good rest, totally recover. How many eventers nurse their tired horses round? I'm sure its not new. That horse of Harry Meade's was still moving and jumping and although eventing personally isn't my cup of tea, as I say, I've seen far worse.
[ QUOTE ]
Apologies for only singling this comment out, but - horrific misjudgement? I really don't think so. I was expecting to see a display of horsemanship resembling Amy Tyron's (or whatever that wench is called), and it's nowhere near. The horse did look tired, but i wouldn't have said it was in an extreme state. The rare times i watch eventing (apologies, but bounces of wood carved into Ducks and the like really isn't my thing) i often see horses who are extremely on the forehand, being held up by the rider, blowing like steam trains... Can barely stomach it some times
Looked to me like Harry wanted to get him over that jump and was then going to call it a day. Sod's law it wasn't as smooth as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
And if the horse was killed there would be a bigger uproar. There could of been a bigger accident Harry should of called it a day a long time before that fence. I hope he gets some punishment for his riding.
artypants
Member
It is VERY easy to watch the video knowing what is going happen and judge harshly, i wonder how many would have made the same judgements watching live?? very few i would think.
As for trotting into a corner, ANY 4* horse should be able to jump a corner from trot, i know mine can. Psychologicaly its not good for the horse to finish on a bad note eg a run out or stop, and at 4* level you really do have to think about those kind of things, Harry probably had every intention of pulling up after hopping the corner its just poor luck and i dont believe for a moment he would ever deliberately press a tired horse.
I think that not being allowed to run his other horse is absurd and unfair (if that is the case) if i were BE id be paying more attention to reprimanding certain riders who rode far too fast and incredibly dangerously into a fence and injured their horse, but instead people seem to be commiserating with her for her bad luck......
As for trotting into a corner, ANY 4* horse should be able to jump a corner from trot, i know mine can. Psychologicaly its not good for the horse to finish on a bad note eg a run out or stop, and at 4* level you really do have to think about those kind of things, Harry probably had every intention of pulling up after hopping the corner its just poor luck and i dont believe for a moment he would ever deliberately press a tired horse.
I think that not being allowed to run his other horse is absurd and unfair (if that is the case) if i were BE id be paying more attention to reprimanding certain riders who rode far too fast and incredibly dangerously into a fence and injured their horse, but instead people seem to be commiserating with her for her bad luck......
Equus Leather
Well-Known Member
Artypants - I agree with your last statement:
"id be paying more attention to reprimanding certain riders who rode far too fast and incredibly dangerously into a fence and injured their horse, but instead people seem to be commiserating with her for her bad luck......"
I will probably be lynched for this, but here goes...
I think ElleJS's round was far more dangerous than anything Harry Meade did. She was far too fast into many, many fences. I watched the video without the knowledge of her fall and thought a few times she was lucky to get away with it.
However, I don't know the horse, nor the rider, and people on here do and say that the horse jumps better going fast.
Tis my opinion and I hope they are both ok. But I don't think Harry sound be lynched 'Amy Tyron style'.
"id be paying more attention to reprimanding certain riders who rode far too fast and incredibly dangerously into a fence and injured their horse, but instead people seem to be commiserating with her for her bad luck......"
I will probably be lynched for this, but here goes...
I think ElleJS's round was far more dangerous than anything Harry Meade did. She was far too fast into many, many fences. I watched the video without the knowledge of her fall and thought a few times she was lucky to get away with it.
However, I don't know the horse, nor the rider, and people on here do and say that the horse jumps better going fast.
Tis my opinion and I hope they are both ok. But I don't think Harry sound be lynched 'Amy Tyron style'.
tink101
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> </font>
I will probably be lynched for this, but here goes...
Yeah u r, so here i go
I think ElleJS's round was far more dangerous than anything Harry Meade did.
You think ..... do u know??? do u ride at this level, more importantly have u ever ridden connie to know how that horse goes best???? ...... Also seeing as tho L has brought con on from pn im gonna hazard a guess that she has an inkling of how her mare goes. possibly even better than HM on a horse he has had less than a year.
She was far too fast into many, many fences. I watched the video without the knowledge of her fall and thought a few times she was lucky to get away with it.
Far to fast, i would like to argue with that ... con is a pocket rocket and sems to be flying when she actually isnt. Also on the vid if L thought that Con was to quick she would have slowed up but as far as I can tell she isnt battling with her to slow her, so im guessing that she figured they were ok!!
<font color="blue"> </font>
I will probably be lynched for this, but here goes...
Yeah u r, so here i go
I think ElleJS's round was far more dangerous than anything Harry Meade did.
You think ..... do u know??? do u ride at this level, more importantly have u ever ridden connie to know how that horse goes best???? ...... Also seeing as tho L has brought con on from pn im gonna hazard a guess that she has an inkling of how her mare goes. possibly even better than HM on a horse he has had less than a year.
She was far too fast into many, many fences. I watched the video without the knowledge of her fall and thought a few times she was lucky to get away with it.
Far to fast, i would like to argue with that ... con is a pocket rocket and sems to be flying when she actually isnt. Also on the vid if L thought that Con was to quick she would have slowed up but as far as I can tell she isnt battling with her to slow her, so im guessing that she figured they were ok!!
Saf
Well-Known Member
I think both riders will be kicking themselves and IMHO thats enough, I have watched my own vids back and questioned my riding all be it at a much lower level and more that I pushed into a SJ rather than sitting still, it must be very hard for them to have this in the public domain
I just hope all concerned are unscathed and come out to prove these were mistakes that can be learnt from
I just hope all concerned are unscathed and come out to prove these were mistakes that can be learnt from
Rafferoo
Well-Known Member
I was right there - it wasn't just a bit tired, it was knackered! I really like Harry and don't think there should be a witch hunt but was most suprised he did not pull up as most people there thought he was about to and applauded him for it.
In all honesty the horse looked close to not making it - it was trapped for a long time in a very horrible position, it then lay on the floor for a very long time (all credit to the team as they handled it brilliantly) and couldn't get up.
A horrible experience for Harry and the horse and a mistake I am sure he will never make again!
In all honesty the horse looked close to not making it - it was trapped for a long time in a very horrible position, it then lay on the floor for a very long time (all credit to the team as they handled it brilliantly) and couldn't get up.
A horrible experience for Harry and the horse and a mistake I am sure he will never make again!
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Just watched it and whilst the horse is clearly tired, I really like Harry Meade and he's made a mistake. He obviously knew the horse was tired, hence the long route and he got it wrong. Let's not crucify him for it, we've all made mistakes. Although he is a pro and has been riding for a long time, he may never have been in that exact situation (let's face it, Midnight Dazzler skips round courses). He was wrong and as long as he learns from it... I'm no expert, I just hate to see riders villanised. The stewards didn't stop him either... Its a shame for the sport but I've seen far more dangerous riding from people going too fast and turning the horses over. I'm not saying he wasn't in the wrong, he was. Just that one bad ride from a normally good and careful rider shouldn't make him evil!
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to confess to not having watched it yet, but am getting a pretty consistent picture from the comments on here. I agree, in the main, with the above comments. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that... I'm not suggesting that anyone on here has pressed a tired horse but I'm pretty sure we've all made judgments which were wrong. One bad decision doesn't make a bad/cruel person...
Just watched it and whilst the horse is clearly tired, I really like Harry Meade and he's made a mistake. He obviously knew the horse was tired, hence the long route and he got it wrong. Let's not crucify him for it, we've all made mistakes. Although he is a pro and has been riding for a long time, he may never have been in that exact situation (let's face it, Midnight Dazzler skips round courses). He was wrong and as long as he learns from it... I'm no expert, I just hate to see riders villanised. The stewards didn't stop him either... Its a shame for the sport but I've seen far more dangerous riding from people going too fast and turning the horses over. I'm not saying he wasn't in the wrong, he was. Just that one bad ride from a normally good and careful rider shouldn't make him evil!
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to confess to not having watched it yet, but am getting a pretty consistent picture from the comments on here. I agree, in the main, with the above comments. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that... I'm not suggesting that anyone on here has pressed a tired horse but I'm pretty sure we've all made judgments which were wrong. One bad decision doesn't make a bad/cruel person...
artypants
Member
@tink101
"Far to fast, i would like to argue with that ... con is a pocket rocket and sems to be flying when she actually isnt. Also on the vid if L thought that Con was to quick she would have slowed up but as far as I can tell she isnt battling with her to slow her, so im guessing that she figured they were ok!!"
but they weren't were they!
The horse may well be a pocket rocket but it does not justify such dangerous and thaughtless riding. FULL STOP.
There is nothing at all wrong with putting your foot down between fences but riding into them full tilt is DANGEROUS and does not give either horse or rider time to assess and adjust and what happened happens, it was bad riding pure and simple and as usual its the horse that pays.
"Far to fast, i would like to argue with that ... con is a pocket rocket and sems to be flying when she actually isnt. Also on the vid if L thought that Con was to quick she would have slowed up but as far as I can tell she isnt battling with her to slow her, so im guessing that she figured they were ok!!"
but they weren't were they!
The horse may well be a pocket rocket but it does not justify such dangerous and thaughtless riding. FULL STOP.
There is nothing at all wrong with putting your foot down between fences but riding into them full tilt is DANGEROUS and does not give either horse or rider time to assess and adjust and what happened happens, it was bad riding pure and simple and as usual its the horse that pays.
humph
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't watched the vid so can't justifyably comment except to say it sounds as if the rider didn't realise how bad his horse was feeling, and will no doubt know next time...
HM is young, determined and he's a bloke, and they do tend to be more forceful under these sort of circumstances, when their determination can overcome common sense.
He'll learn from it, and boy would I not want to be him when his Father talks to him, can you imagine what he will say!! (especially as I heard recently his Father's legendary charm was absent when judging Futurity classes, perhaps he's turning into a Grumpy Old Man....)
I do hope the horse fully recovers and hasn't lost confidence through Harry's mistake.
[/ QUOTE ]
hear, hear.
And I do believe that all his circling was an attempt to work out what the hell to do. Perhaps, and I quite agree that it was wrongly so, his male brain took over and competitive determination made him think 'I'll just get him over this one'. I am quite sure that watching the vid back and feeling the public's distaste will be punishment enough.
I think what he did was appalling but I think we all make mistakes, just some more publicly than others.
I haven't watched the vid so can't justifyably comment except to say it sounds as if the rider didn't realise how bad his horse was feeling, and will no doubt know next time...
HM is young, determined and he's a bloke, and they do tend to be more forceful under these sort of circumstances, when their determination can overcome common sense.
He'll learn from it, and boy would I not want to be him when his Father talks to him, can you imagine what he will say!! (especially as I heard recently his Father's legendary charm was absent when judging Futurity classes, perhaps he's turning into a Grumpy Old Man....)
I do hope the horse fully recovers and hasn't lost confidence through Harry's mistake.
[/ QUOTE ]
hear, hear.
And I do believe that all his circling was an attempt to work out what the hell to do. Perhaps, and I quite agree that it was wrongly so, his male brain took over and competitive determination made him think 'I'll just get him over this one'. I am quite sure that watching the vid back and feeling the public's distaste will be punishment enough.
I think what he did was appalling but I think we all make mistakes, just some more publicly than others.
Equus Leather
Well-Known Member
I'd just like to point out that I have received a private message from Tink giving out ElleSJ's mobile phone number asking me to speak to her regarding my above comment and telling me 'anything I have to say I should say it to her face'.
Not sure, whoever you are, should be giving out people's mobile phone numbers on the internet to random people you don't know!
Anyway, as I have stated, it is my opinion, of which I am entitled to have. I have many opinions on many of the riders there, as does everyone else. That's what happens when you put yourself in the public arena.
I explained my reasoning behind my opinion and have wished both ElleSJ and Connie a speedy recovery.
Dishing out folks mobile numbers is a bit silly.
Not sure, whoever you are, should be giving out people's mobile phone numbers on the internet to random people you don't know!
Anyway, as I have stated, it is my opinion, of which I am entitled to have. I have many opinions on many of the riders there, as does everyone else. That's what happens when you put yourself in the public arena.
I explained my reasoning behind my opinion and have wished both ElleSJ and Connie a speedy recovery.
Dishing out folks mobile numbers is a bit silly.
tink101
Well-Known Member
Artypants ok firstly its spelt THOUGHTLESS. no A needed
Dangerous and thoughtles riding hey. i would put everything i have one the line and say that L would do nothing that would endanger Con she is her baby, a horse she has taken up the levels who she loves a hell of a lot so i would say that is ball coks
I still maintain it wasnt to fast she wasnt pullin at con in the slightest nor was con fighting her, as downhill gallop to a big ditch/brush may have got her on the for hand but she just wasn't workin properly she almost for got her back legs. so i'd say thats not Lauras fault she got her there on a nice stride could have been more on her haunches but i dont think it would have made to much of a diff as con just dint take off.
And as i have already said L will have re-ridden that fence a million time in her head but there may be more to what went on, look at Badders she jumped her socks of with a sore muscle in her hind quarters. And i am sure she would be devastated if she thought she had put her darling mare at risk
Dangerous and thoughtles riding hey. i would put everything i have one the line and say that L would do nothing that would endanger Con she is her baby, a horse she has taken up the levels who she loves a hell of a lot so i would say that is ball coks
I still maintain it wasnt to fast she wasnt pullin at con in the slightest nor was con fighting her, as downhill gallop to a big ditch/brush may have got her on the for hand but she just wasn't workin properly she almost for got her back legs. so i'd say thats not Lauras fault she got her there on a nice stride could have been more on her haunches but i dont think it would have made to much of a diff as con just dint take off.
And as i have already said L will have re-ridden that fence a million time in her head but there may be more to what went on, look at Badders she jumped her socks of with a sore muscle in her hind quarters. And i am sure she would be devastated if she thought she had put her darling mare at risk
Equus Leather
Well-Known Member
Tink, you are obviously very passionate about both ElleJS and Connie and know them both well. You know the relationship they have with each other and how they gel together, no-one is doubting that, nor how much ElleJS loves the horse etc etc.
We're not having a go - god, she's riding at 4*, what do I know? But, we're giving our opinion on what we saw on the video, and it looked fast. That's it.
Pass on our best to both parties.
We're not having a go - god, she's riding at 4*, what do I know? But, we're giving our opinion on what we saw on the video, and it looked fast. That's it.
Pass on our best to both parties.
tink101
Well-Known Member
Lol i am a friend of lauras who was asked by laura to pass on yr number as she had read yr comments and as she is unable to post her self she asked me to pm you her number so that any questions or opinions you may have can be answered by the girl her self. Plus there are a couple of things that u may b interested to hear!!
Equus Leather
Well-Known Member
I don't have any questions, except I hope they are both ok after a crashing fall.
lucretia
Well-Known Member
couple of things just to straighten a copuple of people out.
the horse is not some fat hunter used to trotting round courses it has completed Chatsworth and blenheimn in front of me and certainly should not have been tiring by before its first stop which according to an eye witness and very experienced friend of mine it clearly was, they thought he would retire at the first stop which was the fence after where they were standing.
I know harry pretty well and like him but he made a big error of judgement here. he was damn lucky the outcome was not alot worse in which case we would all be having a very different conversation.
On the subject of stewards stopping riders, I believe Kerilli's information is absolutely reliable as I am not the only person who has asked to be introduced to the steward who would be brave enough to stoip nicholson or townend for example and was informed that is was unlike to need to be applied in their cases. I mentioned at the time Burghley and Golden Hue (i think) , whom a great many people thought ought to have been stopped before it got eliminated. there was a huge thread about it on here at the time.
on another subject was just thinking what a lovely picture Mary finishing on Apache Sauce made. Horse moving easily ears pricked and looked ready to go round again.
the horse is not some fat hunter used to trotting round courses it has completed Chatsworth and blenheimn in front of me and certainly should not have been tiring by before its first stop which according to an eye witness and very experienced friend of mine it clearly was, they thought he would retire at the first stop which was the fence after where they were standing.
I know harry pretty well and like him but he made a big error of judgement here. he was damn lucky the outcome was not alot worse in which case we would all be having a very different conversation.
On the subject of stewards stopping riders, I believe Kerilli's information is absolutely reliable as I am not the only person who has asked to be introduced to the steward who would be brave enough to stoip nicholson or townend for example and was informed that is was unlike to need to be applied in their cases. I mentioned at the time Burghley and Golden Hue (i think) , whom a great many people thought ought to have been stopped before it got eliminated. there was a huge thread about it on here at the time.
on another subject was just thinking what a lovely picture Mary finishing on Apache Sauce made. Horse moving easily ears pricked and looked ready to go round again.
destiny11
Well-Known Member
Just an observation but I think that the poster is allowed to have an opinion, plenty on this thread have made their opinions about Harry Meade clear, what is the difference please? I watched the fall and I thought that she was going far too fast (only my opinion)
I hope they are both ok.
estrauma
New User
I saw Amy Tryon's horrific ride in person at Rolex. I heard people screaming from the sidelines for her to pull up - as her horse's leg was clearly damaged beyond repair. I have absolutely no respect for her or her horsemanship. Her ride (and fall) at the Olympics merely solidified that for me. I still am terribly confused as to why Le Samuri's owners opted to give that woman another horse.
I didn't know about Dunauger's crash on that fence before I watched the video. At first it seemed like he was checking to see if the horse was right but he continued, checked again, still continued. It was clear the horse was off and was not jumping well. He went on. He clearly exhibited an awareness that something wasn't right. Four * horses don't generally slow to a walk when things are going well XC. This wasn't a "heat of the moment" decision. His horse was basically pulling himself up and he kept pushing (as Amy did).
While I don't think that anyone needs a "witch hunt" perhaps this is just the kind of riding/rider that needs to be given a sharp public reprimand as a reminder that this kind of poor decision making will not be tolerated. It could possibly save a horse's life in the future. My guess is there would indeed be a witch hunt going on had poor Dunauger not made it off that jump.
Hopefully Harry will learn from his mistake and become a better horseman for it. As for me, as an owner myself, had that been my horse out there, he would have been on the first horse box out of Harry's yard and given to a rider that has the sense to know that a horse is too exhausted to go on.
I didn't know about Dunauger's crash on that fence before I watched the video. At first it seemed like he was checking to see if the horse was right but he continued, checked again, still continued. It was clear the horse was off and was not jumping well. He went on. He clearly exhibited an awareness that something wasn't right. Four * horses don't generally slow to a walk when things are going well XC. This wasn't a "heat of the moment" decision. His horse was basically pulling himself up and he kept pushing (as Amy did).
While I don't think that anyone needs a "witch hunt" perhaps this is just the kind of riding/rider that needs to be given a sharp public reprimand as a reminder that this kind of poor decision making will not be tolerated. It could possibly save a horse's life in the future. My guess is there would indeed be a witch hunt going on had poor Dunauger not made it off that jump.
Hopefully Harry will learn from his mistake and become a better horseman for it. As for me, as an owner myself, had that been my horse out there, he would have been on the first horse box out of Harry's yard and given to a rider that has the sense to know that a horse is too exhausted to go on.
lucretia
Well-Known Member
i think its fair to say harry has been publically reprimanded now, they showed some of it and told the brief story on the BBC coverage just now........
oldvic
Well-Known Member
Pro riders are all for officials pulling up riders if necessary and are angry when this doesn't happen WHOEVER the rider is. They are aware that it is a requirement for the image of the sport just as they realise they have the responsibility to do the right thing and there are consequences if they don't. The ground jury and TD have the authority to stop horses and there may be officials to help them but through communication with the GJ or TD. Therefore I don't see why stewards were told who they could or couldn't stop before the competition started.
I am also sure that senior riders have talked to Harry and made sure he understands the error of his ways.
I am also sure that senior riders have talked to Harry and made sure he understands the error of his ways.
lucretia
Well-Known Member
thus speaks the official line which all of us are aware of but clearly at some events riders are not being stopped when perhaps they ought to be.
when they decided to bring this rule in several persons did say it would be difficlt to enforce and would in most cases require one of the ground jury to be watching on cctv, which is not always available at three days let alone one days because a fence judge only sees a horse for a few brief strides, until it gets to the point harry,s did.
also even if they radio their concern to control by the time the message has got through to control, the next fence or whoever is going to decide, it could well be to late.
I am sure that like several other areas of eventing policy there are guidelines for this eventulality that are not generally available to the public and consequently when this sort of incident happens these proceedings will be questioned and credence given to any rumours contrary to the offical policy.
And I am quite sure that harry does understand his mistake but i would like to think it is because he is a bright lad and not because of any other imput.
when they decided to bring this rule in several persons did say it would be difficlt to enforce and would in most cases require one of the ground jury to be watching on cctv, which is not always available at three days let alone one days because a fence judge only sees a horse for a few brief strides, until it gets to the point harry,s did.
also even if they radio their concern to control by the time the message has got through to control, the next fence or whoever is going to decide, it could well be to late.
I am sure that like several other areas of eventing policy there are guidelines for this eventulality that are not generally available to the public and consequently when this sort of incident happens these proceedings will be questioned and credence given to any rumours contrary to the offical policy.
And I am quite sure that harry does understand his mistake but i would like to think it is because he is a bright lad and not because of any other imput.
cefyl
Well-Known Member
Laura's C's riding to that fance was horribly reminiscent of Laine Ashker at Rolex last year. This time it was fortunate it was the hind end that got caught up, just glad the horse appeared OK, the rider obviously (luckily) was.
It is a shame that some excellent rounds yesterday have been overshadowed by the heated debates on Harry M's horrible lack of judgement. I am sure he has bitterly regreted his actions from the moment the horse made a half hearted effort to take off. Before this Harry has been seen as a sympathetic and talented rider, and a sportsman and I do hope that this does not tar his image forever in some minds.
Like someone posted earlier Andrew Hoy's forceful riding at some point last year was pretty brutal; Andrew Nicholson pushing Lord Killinghurst beyond his limit at Bejing was not nice but this has been put behind them and we all seem to have forgotten it. Zara's round on I think Glenbuck at Badminton (?) was awful, now that horse was bullied round the last 3/2rd, not nursed, even the commentary when we watched the playback was somwhat aghast but b***** all was said officially. So I hope that Harry will not be held scapegoat for months to come on what otherwise has been a relatively good and quiet Burghley.
It is a shame that some excellent rounds yesterday have been overshadowed by the heated debates on Harry M's horrible lack of judgement. I am sure he has bitterly regreted his actions from the moment the horse made a half hearted effort to take off. Before this Harry has been seen as a sympathetic and talented rider, and a sportsman and I do hope that this does not tar his image forever in some minds.
Like someone posted earlier Andrew Hoy's forceful riding at some point last year was pretty brutal; Andrew Nicholson pushing Lord Killinghurst beyond his limit at Bejing was not nice but this has been put behind them and we all seem to have forgotten it. Zara's round on I think Glenbuck at Badminton (?) was awful, now that horse was bullied round the last 3/2rd, not nursed, even the commentary when we watched the playback was somwhat aghast but b***** all was said officially. So I hope that Harry will not be held scapegoat for months to come on what otherwise has been a relatively good and quiet Burghley.