hats off to ellen

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But JJ, Completely dismissing talent for a minute do you think someone with her dedication, her horses (millions of pounds worth) her training, her support team e.t.c couldn't reach Grand Prix level?

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Yes absolutely. Not arguing in favour of her at all - just the principle. Dedication in itself is a talent is it not??? The money and horses are just someone elses hard work (Dad, and uncles), and sheer bloody good luck!
 
Really? I always thought Ellen was such a nice person! and YO who was at a show with her the other week in Belgium cant speak highly enough of her....this from someone who wouldnt say something just because she felt like she had to.
Ellen had NO grooms with her at this show may i add!

Chrimbo, I didnt realise Tim had someone who did this, however, he is loaded. I enjoyed his bit in H&H last week, and did have to laugh when i read that he must be on the yard by 8:30am lol GUTTED!
I was surprised not to see him ride at Olympia!

I think you do have to have talent, a great deal of dedication and HUGE amount of luck to be good at any sport!
 
Really not sure if its talent or opportunity with the second generation showjumpers around atm.
Is talent genetic? If not then its either a strong co-incidence that whittaker and smith juniors (example) have talent or the opportunity to train, ride and compete day in day out with the best plays a large part.
I'm not saying ellen or any of the others dont have talent. I have the greatest respect for all of them. I just wonder how much luck of birth comes in to it.

PS...I have a grade B who has jumped 1.35 comps successfully and was pretty much unbeaten up to and including 1.20. I cant get him round a 1mtr clear. Could sure use some talent right about now.
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I was surprised not to see him ride at Olympia!

I think you do have to have talent, a great deal of dedication and HUGE amount of luck to be good at any sport!

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Tim's best horses are all injured at the moment
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And absolutely agree with your final statement there, but would probably add money too
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Like Tim Stockdale!
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I have lots of respect for him! I mean how many girls under 20 get given a million pound horse....not even Zara did! The press are moaning about 23k.

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She wasnt given a million pound horse - Locarno was 5 yrs old when she got him... she has produced him into being a million pound horse herself!

Karen
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She wasnt given a million pound horse - Locarno was 5 yrs old when she got him... she has produced him into being a million pound horse herself!

Karen
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I read in H&H they paid 1 million for him from the sale as a 5y.o.....
 
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She wasnt given a million pound horse - Locarno was 5 yrs old when she got him... she has produced him into being a million pound horse herself!

Karen
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Hang on... didn't she previously just have the ride, but wasn't he recently bought for her when the owners fell out (or similar) and sold him?
 
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yes that is correct, there was a huge legal battle over it, and she did not produce the horse herself

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I thought she did. I read they bought him for 1 mill as a 5y.o from the sale at schokemohle's (spelling eeek!
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Hm dont think thats true (correct me if im wrong) but she was actually only given the horse as a ride (she didnt own it) and then the syndicate that owned the horse fell out earlier this year and she lost the ride so the whitakers some how managed to buy the horse. (dont know the ins and outs of the legal battle though)
 
I dont think they bought him for a million, it may have said it, but as far as im aware he wasnt purchased for that amount.
However this is where the legel problem came into place. However, Im not going into detail on a forum, equally I may have been fed something completely wrong.
 
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yes that is correct, there was a huge legal battle over it, and she did not produce the horse herself

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Oh really? Who produced him then? I honestly thought it was Ellen..
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Oh really? Who produced him then? I honestly thought it was Ellen..
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It was, she produced him! They paid 1million as a 5y.o! I'm off to try and google it now...
 
"She is the half-sister off the Grand-prix jumping stallion Locarno (Ellen Withaker), who in 2001 on the PSI-auction was sold for 1 million euro's."

"The five-year-old Holsteiner Locarno was the most expensive show jumping horse. The Lord Calidos x Romino son was sold for 1.95 million DM (or 1 million Euro)."

 
She did produce him herself! They got him when he was a youngster then both her dad (Steven) and Ellen produced him. Steven did a few young horse classes then Ellen took over. Steven has always owned half of him, its just the other half is now owned by a woman instead of Julian Donn.

I think Ellen is very talented. You could give me all the money, best horses and training in the world and i'd still be awful and i certainly would not have the guts to jump a 7'4 wall!!!
 
Good. Please let us know the results of your google!

I really think that we should get behind Ellen - how many 20 year old girls do you know who compete at World Class level? It takes extreme hard work and dedication. She IS talented and its ridiculous to say that she isnt. OK, so sometimes she is a little handy but she doesnt have easy horses (apart from Locarno). Cut her some slack please - she's great for lifting the image of British Showjumping imho.

Karen
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Ah well i was wrong with that then

Guts to jump the wall yeh that takes a lot but i tell you what, i also certainly wouldnt have the gutts to haul a horse in the mouth on live television after it knocked a jump, then go into the warm up and pelt it over and over the warm up fence, stopping it after it and giving it a kick with the spurs whilst holding it back
Yes so jealous of the way she rides
 
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Good. Please let us know the results of your google!

I really think that we should get behind Ellen - how many 20 year old girls do you know who compete at World Class level? It takes extreme hard work and dedication. She IS talented and its ridiculous to say that she isnt. OK, so sometimes she is a little handy but she doesnt have easy horses (apart from Locarno). Cut her some slack please - she's great for lifting the image of British Showjumping imho.

Karen
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I agree, like Zara she is good for the sport, adds a bit of glamour too. But she has been given a hell of alot and shouldn't really be anything less than world class. She is VERY dedicated though!
 
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BBs you are wrong - honestly, he was a mill euros!

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Oh Okay....I guess we shall never truely know the outcome because NONE of us where actually there at the sale.
 
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BBs you are wrong - honestly, he was a mill euros!

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Oh Okay....I guess we shall never truely know the outcome because NONE of us where actually there at the sale.

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But there sale records, we didn't need to be there.
 
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BBs you are wrong - honestly, he was a mill euros!

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Oh Okay....I guess we shall never truely know the outcome because NONE of us where actually there at the sale.

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But there sale records, we didn't need to be there.

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Like I say thats fine......
 
BBs its documented - t was at an auction!

Recently no, no one knows what the new owner paid for him, that is correct - but he WAS a million euro horse when he was purchased initially for Ellen to ride in 2001
 
Well i don't see you at the top of SJ. And don't say you don't have the money coz you can still get there without it- Helen Tredwell for example and John and Micheal Whitaker didn't have any money when they started.
 
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BBs its documented - t was at an auction!

Recently no, no one knows what the new owner paid for him, that is correct - but he WAS a million euro horse when he was purchased initially for Ellen to ride in 2001

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And i think you will find I agree with you....
 
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