Have you ever just wanted to stop in the middle of a clinic/lesson?

[CanteringCarrot]

Thinking about this a bit...have you ever wanted to or have you ever just stopped mid clinic/riding lesson/training session? I felt like I had to sort of advocate for my horse today and try to salvage our training.

Yesterday's ride was ok, but today I just felt like the instructor was asking too much and my horse was becoming totally fried. It actually seemed to undo a few things we had trained recently. I finally said, look, I'm done. I cannot ride this horse cranked in for 30/40 min straight and just drill him on the same things over and over when he's doing them well for his level of training and fitness for the task. I don't work him into a panic to create energy. That's not how it's done. He doesn't need to do 1000 20 meter circles of collected canter.

I have one horse. I want him to stay sound in his mind and body (the footing was too deep, tbh). I want him to enjoy the work a little bit and want to do it. I want to give him confidence. Yeah, sure, I have to challenge him, push his limits, and have some ugly moments, but there's a balance and feeling to it.

Clinician last week, who I will now ride with more regularly, totally understood this horse and had good feeling from the ground that matched mine in the saddle. Always end on a good note with him and he has good tools to get the job done, even when the horse is a bit up that day, resistant, or nervous.

I think some use the same exercises to accomplish the same things in every horse if that makes sense.

I hate being disrespectful, but I had to speak for the horse, I think. Sure enough I was able to relax him and accomplish the task. I mean it's not just one road that leads to Rome ?‍ but I still felt bad about saying something.

 

[twiggy2]

No one else is going to speak up for your horse and if you don't agree with what you are being asked to do then you are right to say so.
The ultimate aim is to find an instructor who challenges both you and your horse and improves your way of going and communication as a partnership.

 

[nikkimariet]

Yes. If it doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t.

 

[Marigold4]

I have left a training session part way through. Took my project horse to a cross country training clinic. She had only seen x country jumps a couple of times before. I wanted to trot in and canter away; instructor was insisting we canter fairly smartly at the jumps. I left because I felt this would end up with a misjudgement and a knock in her confidence.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Ok, so I suppose it was the right thing. It's just hard when there's me, dressage rider (formerly jumping rider) of 3 or 4 years and dressage trainer that has possibly my lifetime worth of experience. He was a nice guy, and some parts were decent, but overall, just not for us. I'm always looking to learn, but there is that risk when riding with a new trainer.

 

[Cortez]

Yes of course. If it's not working for you/your horse, not making sense, not 'right', then you don't do it. I usually don't argue with clinicians and am game to have a go, but if it goes against the grain I just....don't.

 

[Upthecreek]

I think it’s important to remember that instructors/trainers are not gods. They may have reached a high level as a rider, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to being able to teach well with empathy and an eye on what you are trying to achieve longer term, rather than in that particular session. No matter how knowledgeable and experienced they may be, most do not have the ability to look at a horse and rider they don’t know and know instantly what will work for that particular partnership. I have found some instructors welcome being told why something they are asking doesn’t work for me and my horse. But most aren’t interested and just want you to do it to prove a point.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I think it’s important to remember that instructors/trainers are not gods. They may have reached a high level as a rider, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to being able to teach well with empathy and an eye on what you are trying to achieve longer term, rather than in that particular session. No matter how knowledgeable and experienced they may be, most do not have the ability to look at a horse and rider they don’t know and know instantly what will work for that particular partnership. I have found some instructors welcome being told why something they are asking doesn’t work for me and my horse. But most aren’t interested and just want you to do it to prove a point.

This explains it pretty well, I think.

 

[Britestar]

Yes. I had lessons with the same person for many years and got on just fine.
Then one time he wanted me to start bullying the pony for what he thought we should do.
I said that if that was the way it should feel, then I didn't want to participate. The pony was then around 18yrs old, we had an "arrangement ", and he always pulled out the stops at comps.
He then said thanks for making me feel a crap trainer, to which I replied, you made me feel like a crap rider.

Never went back. Shame as he'd helped me achieve a lot.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

That's a shame, Britestar.

Not to turn this into a dressage debate but...sometimes here in competition, and in riding clinics, they don't care if the horse is mentally fried or out of it's mind if the gaits are expressive. That's not what I'm after. Many grind their teeth, make odd breathing noises (too tight in the throatlash area/too tight of a neck position), and just don't look to enjoy life. I'm not sacrificing the horse for...anything.

I know he doesn't wake up in the morning and think "lets dressage, yay!" But I know I can get him to feel good in the work. We're also at a point in our training where I commonly see horses break down, if they're going to. So I want to go about this correctly. Hopefully he'll be ok on our next ride. One time it took me a few rides to get him back ro the sweet spot after riding with a certain instructor.

I also think some of the style around here isn't me and isn't this horse. I'm also usually the only one on an Iberian, and I think the beat of their drum is a bit different. Some might not get it. Sounds dumb, but makes sense in my head ?


*I do want to say I know these issues aren't dressage wide. It's just what's in my area, mostly.

Edit: I'm done with thus autocorrect

 

[ycbm]

Yes, I stopped a pole lesson before the end because the instructor had not listened to what I told her about my mare's lack of experience and was overfacing her.

I had, in retrospect, two lessons with another instructor in the last year which I should have called a halt to and didn't. I've now stopped using that instructor because they make me plough on and on and on trying to get the result they are aiming for and I get boiling frog syndrome and fail to stop and ask for another way to try and achieve the desired result. It's only after I've stopped I realise how wrong it was. Since I can't trust the instructor or myself to call a halt, not using the instructor is my only option.
.

 

[ycbm]

I also think some of the style around here isn't me and isn't this horse. I'm also usually the only one on an Iberian, and I think the beat of their drum is a bit different. Some might not get it. Sounds dumb, but makes sense in my head ?

Makes perfect sense. My experience is once you've wound up an Iberian, they don't come down, and one of you has to break the cycle and the only person who can do that is the rider. If you have an instructor who is adamant you must "push through" , it's a recipe for disaster on an Iberian.

The worst lesson I describe above went that way.
.

 

[Cortez]

Makes perfect sense. My experience is once you've wound up an Iberian, they don't come down, and one of you has to break the cycle and the only person who can do that is the rider. If you have an instructor who is adamant you must "push through" , it's a recipe for disaster on an Iberian.

The worst lesson I describe above went that way.
.

This 100%. I no longer train with people who don't understand Iberian horses. Actually, I only train with Spanish or Portuguese trainers now, and 1 Austrian (SRS).

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I have not ended a lesson but I have regretted not doing so when I have been left angry and upset. And I have then never gone back. I hate confrontation but I do think I should have advocated more for my horse. Well done!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

This 100%. I no longer train with people who don't understand Iberian horses. Actually, I only train with Spanish or Portuguese trainers now, and 1 Austrian (SRS).

Makes sense.

Some people don't get Iberians and I was also trying to describe how mental this particular horse is, and that he needed a a break, a regroup, and an ask again, but perhaps on a slightly different way. He can usually handle that. Or go do something he's good at that gives him confidence, and approach the other matter a bit differently. I often feel as though people are telling me to muscle him around and I'm like, "he's a mental ride, I need to ride his mind!"

It's not avoiding it or "letting him win" (hate that mentality) it's doing it right for him. Producing the best result and taking the best possible path to get there. I find many people aren't very mentally creative with riding here. They learn one way and "it's the way"

To be fair, this trainer today did acknowledge they ride different in Spain and Portugal, but still isn't for Iberians, I would say.

 

[milliepops]

I have done this twice.
Neither times were actually my horse but were horses i had pretty much the sole ride for in training and competition.

First time was jumping and the horse was getting more confused and it was then starting to undermine my confidence in her. it was awkward because the horse had been bought from the trainer so she thought she knew best, and maybe what she was asking would have worked fine if she had been on the horse but individual horse-rider dynamics can be different so.. anyway, i pulled up and said i wasn't doing any more and we never went back to her.

second time was flatwork and with a trainer who is an expert in the breed (Iberian... sensing a theme here) but i think he was getting carried away in what the horse's physical potential was and sort of forgot its mental abilities. He wanted me to put far too much pressure on the horse and I could feel his trust fading away, which i was just not prepared to accept, it was one of those Push Through It sessions and i said i wasn't doing any more. Unfortunately the owner was totally bought into it and we were on a 3 day course... tricky one, but I didn't ride in the next lesson and they did some in hand work instead which i think was a bit easier for the horse to accept.

I am always prepared to advocate for my horse, Kira is such an odd personality that i'm very choosy about who i have trained her with anyway, and if I feel that something is being unfair or just counterproductive I am very happy to find a way to say so.

 

[oldie48]

Yes, on two occasions. First was on a BD camp riding a paired lesson with a very respected trainer. It was a very hot day and she sent me to the other of the end of the school to canter endlessly in 20m circles. After a while I decided both the horse and I had had enough and I quietly left the school. After I'd untacked the horse and washed him off I went and told her what I thought of her teaching! Second time, was with a BHS fellow at a very good equestrian centre. She kept taking phone calls with the occasional instruction fired in my direction. Again I stopped and started to exit the indoor school and she asked me where I was going to which I replied "To ask for half my money back as I've only had half your attention". Needless to say I didn't get half my money back but she lost my custom. Honestly, I think sometimes we just put up with really crap teaching,

 

[Rowreach]

Yes, on occasions, and I would again. I have no problem with pushing myself, being pushed, and to a certain extent challenging the horse, but I have always known my horses well enough to know when it is time to speak up for them. Or if the trainer has really pissed me off.

 

[EllenJay]

Yes - regularly. I have a weekly session with my instructor and many a time I don't use the allocated time. If my boy is struggling with something and suddenly achieves something towards what we want, his reward is to stop pressing, do something simple and stop.
The next session we build on what he achieved the previous week, and it's so much easier. He has had time to think and work out what we are asking without any stress

 

[Nicnac]

Yes I have - twice.

You know your horse and what it going to send them over the edge.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

If I think my horse has had enough or I don’t want to do any more I will just say we have had enough now Thankyou and pay for the full time booked out but you can stop a lesson whenever you want

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I've ended early- and instrcutors have been fine with that, The thing I have chickened out of is stopping because of something the RI is doing that I don't like. I can think of a few times like that. I will try and mentally rehearse doing it so next time I can. I feel quite ashamed that I haven;t

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Good thread by the way. It's really making me think. I'll borrow some lines off you braver folk than me!

 

[windand rain]

Yes many years ago went to untack my 3 year old hannovarian after a lesson with a young rider he was so tired he was shaking and nearly fell over. The next lesson I stopped after about 15 minutes as they were working so well the trainer was again pushing the baby too hard. That was for me the end of the young rider and that trainer such a shame as the horse was a real trier. He was a beautifully bred boy and was ridden by the kids I loaned my ponies to most of the time after that

 

[palo1]

Yes. Having nearly had a complete disaster with a well respected trainer (who subsequently apologised in fact for her lack of 'reading' the horse) that undid months of work, I generally ask now for a 30 minute session as a first lesson. I try not to chat and to spend that first session listening and working with whoever the trainer is before I decide whether to go for more. I've not met anyone who isn't prepared to offer a 30-40 minute session to start with and I try to give as little away as possible so that I can see how the trainer truly reads the horse and our partnership. It's often very helpful and revealing. If within 10 mins or so things are going wrong I will offer that the horse feels NQR, pay for the whole deal and go home smartish! These days I do have a couple of really trusted trainers that I tend to use.

 

[daffy44]

No, but I am incredibly fussy about who I go to for lessons, and would never go for a lesson with someone I hadnt watched teach first. I am very loyal with trainers, and when I find someone who works for me, and I feel can communicate well with, then I stick with them. I have stopped in a lesson and said that I dont think what we are doing is working, can we have a break and try a different approach, and this has always been well received and listened to, and thats why the communication aspect of the relationship is so important.

I would never have a lesson with someone that I havent been able to watch first, because not every approach works for everyone, and whilst two trainers may well have the same amount of knowledge, and even the same goals, they way they go about achieving things may be very different, and I know what works best for me and my horses.

 

[GinaGeo]

There have been times in the past that I wished I had. I was younger and less sure of myself. Now I would say that he had done enough - thank you very much.

I am now very choosy about who I have lessons with, and make sure I fully buy into a system before I will have a lesson with anybody.

It’s just not worth setting a horse back with one bad session, to please somebody else’s ego.

 

[ycbm]

Yes - regularly. I have a weekly session with my instructor and many a time I don't use the allocated time. If my boy is struggling with something and suddenly achieves something towards what we want, his reward is to stop pressing, do something simple and stop.
The next session we build on what he achieved the previous week, and it's so much easier. He has had time to think and work out what we are asking without any stress

I don't think this is the same. CC is talking about stopping a lesson because it's going wrong, not because things have turned positive and ending is a reward.
.

 

[scats]

I’ve definitely had an internal battle over this this year. I have really had to have a good think about whether having lessons with my trainer was actually too much for Millie. It’s no reflection on my trainer, I have a huge amount of respect for her and what she says makes perfect sense, but I’ve had so much horrendous luck with horses that I am terrified to push Millie to do things that I know are going to put more strain on her. I found that as we got further to asking her for more, mentally I just hit a wall. If Millie struggled, I started to panic that I was breaking her. I think at times I frustrated my trainer as a result, but I don’t have the money to go and buy/run another horse alongside my two so if anything goes wrong with Millie, that’s my lot. I’d never forgive myself, plus I’d be thoroughly miserable, if I had even an inkling that something we were working on under saddle might have been the cause. So I’ve had to re-evaluate things a bit. I enjoy dressage but I can’t afford a horse more suitable for the job. Yet I also have to recognise that for Millie’s long term soundness, pushing on and trying to take her as far as I can would not be in her best interests. We will continue to bumble about at the lower levels and I’ll do my best to turn her into the best version of where she is comfortable, but beyond that, no. I’m not sure I will continue with my lessons yet, but if I do, I will have a good chat with my trainer to re-evaluate what’s the best path for us now.

 

[ycbm]

I’ve definitely had an internal battle over this this year. I have really had to have a good think about whether having lessons with my trainer was actually too much for Millie. It’s no reflection on my trainer, I have a huge amount of respect for her and what she says makes perfect sense, but I’ve had so much horrendous luck with horses that I am terrified to push Millie to do things that I know are going to put more strain on her. I found that as we got further to asking her for more, mentally I just hit a wall. If Millie struggled, I started to panic that I was breaking her. I think at times I frustrated my trainer as a result, but I don’t have the money to go and buy/run another horse alongside my two so if anything goes wrong with Millie, that’s my lot. I’d never forgive myself, plus I’d be thoroughly miserable, if I had even an inkling that something we were working on under saddle might have been the cause. So I’ve had to re-evaluate things a bit. I enjoy dressage but I can’t afford a horse more suitable for the job. Yet I also have to recognise that for Millie’s long term soundness, pushing on and trying to take her as far as I can would not be in her best interests. We will continue to bumble about at the lower levels and I’ll do my best to turn her into the best version of where she is comfortable, but beyond that, no. I’m not sure I will continue with my lessons yet, but if I do, I will have a good chat with my trainer to re-evaluate what’s the best path for us now.

I have stopped training Ludo in any serious fashion for exactly this reason. If he broke from trying to achieve my dreams, I'd never forgive myself. I also sold a previous horse for the same reason, I thought he was going to break if I kept insisting he did things he wasn't built for.