Have you ever just wanted to stop in the middle of a clinic/lesson?

[CanteringCarrot]

Ideally I would watch a clinician before riding with them but sometimes they aren't local. Dressage clinics also fill up within seconds and can be scarce at times, so I sort of feel like I jump on them because I just want to learn. Perhaps me schooling on my own does less damage in some cases though, so if I miss out on some clinics, it is what it is. Sometimes they're also big names, so I question myself because is my judgment really better than that of an Olympian? But it does hold true that good rider doesn't equal good instructor or good for every horse and rider.

I am definitely sticking with riding with the one we really get on with. He'll be around in January though and I've already got a spot. Also organizing him coming to the yard for a clinic too. He used to be local, and I wish he still was! With the exception of another lesson I have scheduled, I think I'll just hold off and only ride with preferred clinician. I'll also take a few jumping lessons from our trainer at the yard because we generally get on well and I've never had an issue with her/her setting us back in our training. So I'll play it safe. Our rides alone can be quite productive too.

This sounds weird, but I just have an odd mental connection with this horse and can read him quite well. It's almost emotional. I have good natural feeling anyway, but there's something with this particular creature.

I wasn't so eloquent today about stopping the lesson but I was direct and honest, so, keeping with the German way. ?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I’ve definitely had an internal battle over this this year. I have really had to have a good think about whether having lessons with my trainer was actually too much for Millie. It’s no reflection on my trainer, I have a huge amount of respect for her and what she says makes perfect sense, but I’ve had so much horrendous luck with horses that I am terrified to push Millie to do things that I know are going to put more strain on her. I found that as we got further to asking her for more, mentally I just hit a wall. If Millie struggled, I started to panic that I was breaking her. I think at times I frustrated my trainer as a result, but I don’t have the money to go and buy/run another horse alongside my two so if anything goes wrong with Millie, that’s my lot. I’d never forgive myself, plus I’d be thoroughly miserable, if I had even an inkling that something we were working on under saddle might have been the cause. So I’ve had to re-evaluate things a bit. I enjoy dressage but I can’t afford a horse more suitable for the job. Yet I also have to recognise that for Millie’s long term soundness, pushing on and trying to take her as far as I can would not be in her best interests. We will continue to bumble about at the lower levels and I’ll do my best to turn her into the best version of where she is comfortable, but beyond that, no. I’m not sure I will continue with my lessons yet, but if I do, I will have a good chat with my trainer to re-evaluate what’s the best path for us now.

Sort of related with how I found myself all paranoid about the footing. Some spots were quite deep. It was newish, but just not right, IMO. So on the second day of asking him for such intense work and collection on this footing he did politely tell me a few times that he was getting tired and this might be too much. I am so worried about soft tissue stuff. Time wise, I can only afford one horse, and I want to make the most of it and give him the best and most healthy life I can.

I do debate buying something nicer from time to time, but I feel oddly connected to this one, even if he's no world beater.

 

[tiga71]

I haven't left a clinic early but I have stopped early and just watched the rest. Mainly when my horse has done enough.

I was not as good at advocating for my older horse as I am with my younger two. I was less experienced and he was a bold, up for anything kind of chap that didn't worry about much. My second had a rough start and had a bit of a breakdown with jumping. I spent 2 years going back to basics with him and getting him confident with jumping tiny cross poles. He taught me to be his voice and I have become much braver saying things like "My horse needs to look at that before we jump it.", "I am only trotting in.", "No, that is too much for him today. We will stay small." It doesn'y worry me now. I don't care what they think of me, I care that my horse comes out feeling confident and happy.

 

[Red-1]

Yes, many times.

Sometimes with the agreement and blessing of the trainer. They realise what I am seeing and feeling. They are the ones I go back to.

Sometimes it is more of a walk out without their agreement or understanding. I don't go back there.

One told me they didn't know how I was going to compete BE at Chatsworth Novice. I quit then and there, as I was jolly well going to do that, and needed someone who COULD see a way.

One told me I was going to ruin the horse because I was crooked and that I was awful to watch. That was my last lesson with that person. They may have been correct, but needed to find a better way of saying so! BTW, we went on to have both our best seasons after that!

 

[Littlebear]

Yes I have a few times over the years, the worst one and biggest lesson I learnt was having a rider recommended to help with schooling, he was on the horse about 5 minutes while I sat at the side with my blood boiling at what he was doing and I just said sorry this isn't what I wanted, it was the most kind genuine horse ever and he got on and bullied him, he then gave me a lecture that if I wanted to go further in dressage that is how it was done... no thanks then, I have since been further than he has ever gotten, not that I ever wanted to be some great dressage rider, just enjoyed the training and the odd competition. Horrid man.
I stick to the same instructor now. Good for you sticking up for what you believe.

 

[ycbm]

I find many people aren't very mentally creative with riding here. They learn one way and "it's the way"

I have trained with a German trainer once and watched two others (those were international GP, training a friend of mine) so my experience is small but it was the same with all three. We have a method, we follow the German scales of training, and this is what we do and the horse must submit to that.

The one who was training me told me I could not take my horse up to the other end of the arena away from what he was spooking at because, I quote, "that's not how we do things". I never went back, it's a complete waste of money to pay someone to watch you do pear shape circles on a frightened 4 year old for 45 minutes.

I think dyed in the wool German training and an Iberian horse is probably a match made in hell.
.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I have trained with a German trainer once and watched two others (those were international GP, training a friend of mine) so my experience is small but it was the same with all three. We have a method, we follow the German scales of training, and this is what we do and the horse must submit to that.

The one who was training me told me I could not take my horse up to the other end of the arena away from what he was spooking at because, I quote, "that's not how we do things". I never went back, it's a complete waste of money to pay someone to watch you do pear shape circles on a frightened 4 year old for 45 minutes.

I think dyed in the wool German training and an Iberian horse is probably a match made in hell.
.

That's pretty accurate though. "The horse must..." submit to this way and this is the only way. Thankfully the clinician I like doesn't think like this, is more creative, has a good feeling for the horse, and is a successful rider himself on a few different types/breeds of horses. He also listens to the rider and works WITH the horse and rider.

I think your last statement is true. I think this is why I have to be extra careful about clinics in the future. I'm very eager to learn, but still. I have another lesson on Wednesday with a new trainer since a fellow livery invited me along, I know 2 people that ride with him (they're not the dyed in the wool German way type) and he doesn't seem to be harsh, stubborn, or inflexible. It's reported that his style is light but with power, and we need more power so I'll take a crack at it. Not afraid to say it isn't for me/my horse ?

Our home trainer is fine, but more for dressage basics and jumping. We still ride with her for jumping/poles. So that's why I sort of search around a bit. The yard is lovely and fellow liveries are alright, so not worth moving over.

Really glad I started the thread and was able to spill my thoughts and read others.

 

[Cortez]

[QUOTE="ycbm, post: 14784841,

I think dyed in the wool German training and an Iberian horse is probably a match made in hell.
.[/QUOTE]

I was trained in the German system for the entirety of my FEI competition career. I thoroughly agree with your sentiment. When I began riding Spanish horses I had to rapidly and completely overhaul my method and way of thinking about horse training; it's the hardest thing I've ever done, and I'm so thankful I did it.

 

[palo1]

Trainers with an unbending 'method' style really need to be sentenced to several years of Welsh cob...!! I fear they possibly put up with less than some of the other sensitive types and breeds - ime arabs and spanish horses will often try for a long time before they protest even when the method is not working.

 

[planete]

My favourite trainer was a western riding competitor and trainer who also competed in dressage and eventing and rode both quarter horses and thoroughbred type horses. I loved the fact she had so many different tools in her toolbox. If something did not work for the horse and rider in front of her she could always suggest a different approach (I could really do with her now sometimes!) .

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Went to edit, half of post got messed up, then I gave up. Nothing to see here.

 

[Caol Ila]

Well, I feel stupid today. I let a knowledgeable friend convince me that it was a good idea to get Hermosa to back into the washstall. Said washstall is in an old byre, with straight stalls. This one has rubber mats in it that go slightly uphill. Hermosa walks forward into it without any trouble, but to go in backwards, your horse has to turn 90 degrees while moving and not hit a railing. It really is very narrow. The reason you would ask it to enter rear-end first is if you want to cross-tie your horse in the washstall. It's not big enough for the horse to turn around. Some horses at the barn will comply; others not so much.

Would it surprise anyone to hear that my 3-year old was not too keen on the 'sharp turn into a narrow space while moving backwards' game? She was getting a bit upset. In fairness, she got her back feet on the mat. I should have stopped there. My friend pushed us a little harder, and it was clear that this was not going to work. I gave up and returned to walking forwards into it, which wasn't a problem, but I feel like an idiot for even thinking that was a fair thing to ask. It's just so damned easy to get drawn into a thing when you think people (friends/trainers/etc) know more than you. But do they? Really?

I need to make sure I have my 'hardass' hat on, to be sure I'm not letting myself be convinced to try things we are not ready for. It can be tricky. Sometimes I am overly conservative with my horses, and it helps build everyone's confidence when someone pushes me into asking a slightly harder question, but one that the horse can answer. That's just the art of horse training, isn't it?

Hopefully my horse will forgive me. Tbh, I don't see why I ever need to back her into that washstall at this point. She can learn to crosstie in the much bigger, friendlier wash bays at Foinavon's barn when I move her there.

Sorry, pony.

 

[milliepops]

I generally don't even let OH help with training my yearling, he is horsey and has handled a lot of horses but I know her inside out so i know better when to put pressure on her and when not to and also more about how she thinks. I get more sensible reactions from her than he does. she will learn what she needs to learn but we'll do it my way for now.
shes the first horse I've had for a verrrrrry long time that hasn't been spoiled in some way by its past so I am very protective over this opportunity to get it *right*... i'm sure i will make mistakes anyway, you always do, but I'm not going to let that be because of bowing to outside pressure

 

[Caol Ila]

It will get easier once this foal is weaned. Then I can work her by myself on my own time, at my own pace. Living the f*cking dream.

 

[milliepops]

can you just leave her be with just basic care until then? it sounds like a world of frustration trying to do stuff with the foal still on her.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, someone at BAPSH suggested I could still train her and teach her how to lunge with the foal loose in the school. Uh, that seems like a monumentally stupid idea. The foal would definitely find a way to get himself tangled in the lunge line. Maybe not everyone's foal, but certainly this one.

They enjoy their walks in hand, and showing them stuff like tarps works because we let the foal participate as much or as little as he wants. But you're right -- expecting much else is a world of frustration. I think I need to draw lines in the sand about not being pushed into doing more than keeping up with our basic ground manners.

 

[Cortez]

Oh I've trained several mares with foals at foot with no drama, but if you're not in a hurry or not keen on doing that, that's absolutely up to you. It's perfectly possible, but not compulsory.

 

[milliepops]

For the sake of a couple of months it feels like you're not going to lose anything by waiting, except a load of irritation. If it was just you doing things on your own terms it would be different. but having the foal's new owner and anyone else involved is probably just setting you all up for a rubbish time.

 

[palo1]

For the sake of a couple of months it feels like you're not going to lose anything by waiting, except a load of irritation. If it was just you doing things on your own terms it would be different. but having the foal's new owner and anyone else involved is probably just setting you all up for a rubbish time.

This. I do think too that whilst a number of experiences are good for young horses it is easier for both horse and handler is there is a 'principal' person that is taking the lead. It just makes things clearer - for good or bad (hopefully good!) and helps a young horse to learn it's lessons in a simpler way. This also means that when/if there is a mistake both parties can move on very quickly and it tends to be a non-event as the consistency that the main person provides is supportive and reassuring. Everyone makes mistakes! Horses are hugely generous and forgiving but ime they hate 'unfairness' and unclear boundaries/requests/rules so it is generally much better to keep things clear and simple.

We have one horse here that will still come to a complete standstill on voice command even if he has another rider; he was particularly wedded to his trainer as a youngster (my OH) - possibly too much in this case!! The whole family here squabbled over who would 'help' me start my young mare (we hadn't had a nice youngster for a while) so I chose the least insistent, the quietest and least 'keen' member of the family to help me. The mare still thinks that not only is my word the last one but that my daughter is the next most important person she knows lol!! It is really quite funny but is a cautionary tale as to who is involved in a young horse's education. Young horses are wonderful, just wonderful so take your time to enjoy Hermosa @Caol Ila

 

[EllenJay]

Yeah, someone at BAPSH suggested I could still train her and teach her how to lunge with the foal loose in the school. Uh, that seems like a monumentally stupid idea. The foal would definitely find a way to get himself tangled in the lunge line. Maybe not everyone's foal, but certainly this one.

They enjoy their walks in hand, and showing them stuff like tarps works because we let the foal participate as much or as little as he wants. But you're right -- expecting much else is a world of frustration. I think I need to draw lines in the sand about not being pushed into doing more than keeping up with our basic ground manners.

I'm really looking unsure why you are pushing her so much. You are obviously struggling with the baby, so just wait until they have weaned. A few months isn't going to make any difference in her schooling/training. We are coming up to the worst UK weather, take the pressure off and look forward to working in the spring.

 

[EllenJay]

I don't think this is the same. CC is talking about stopping a lesson because it's going wrong, not because things have turned positive and ending is a reward.
.

It's exactly the same. I recognized that my horse was struggling and stopped before it went wrong, realising that if I didn't stop then it would go wrong. Or are you questioning that I stopped too soon?

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, you guys are totally right.

My less sh1t attempt at horsemanship today involved Foinavon and a gate. I had attempted to close a gate while mounted a few months ago, but he got stuck, just a bit of planting because I was asking him to ride into a solid object (the gate), and I left it. Not the right time. "Manana." I gave it another go today. He let me ride him up against the gate and push the gate. It's not an easy gate because it swings back towards you. But still, we pushed it about 80 percent of the way towards the gatepost. I felt if I asked for too much more, he would start to worry. So I said to my riding buddy (who isn't German...haha), "I think he's done a great job, so let's leave it." And she didn't question my call. She was on a very experienced horse, and they finished closing the gate, no bother. I was pleased with him. He wasn't stressed and learned a new thing. Everyone was happy.

 

[ycbm]

It's exactly the same. I recognized that my horse was struggling and stopped before it went wrong, realising that if I didn't stop then it would go wrong. Or are you questioning that I stopped too soon?

I thought you wrote that you stopped after the horse had made some improvement towards what the trainer was wanting. That's rewarding the horse, not stopping the trainer when things were going wrong which was what CC was asking about.

Apologies if I have misunderstood what you wrote.
.

 

[Cob Life]

I’m very lucky my instructor listens to me and if I say “I don’t feel comfortable/ready to do this” we stop, work out why it isn’t feeling right and what we need to do to fix that, and then gradually build up.

 

[Lyle]

Yes, I have. As a Young Rider it was very hard to speak up and politely excuse myself. I did on the basis that I felt the jumping exercise was not working for my horse. I knew I had nothing to prove, the horse was an excellent jumper and I worked weekly with my regular coach. Some people felt I was having a sook because the horse wasn't 'going well' I think it was about being completely aware of what my horse was feeling!

 

[Mule]

[QUOTE="ycbm, post: 14784841,

I think dyed in the wool German training and an Iberian horse is probably a match made in hell.
.

I was trained in the German system for the entirety of my FEI competition career. I thoroughly agree with your sentiment. When I began riding Spanish horses I had to rapidly and completely overhaul my method and way of thinking about horse training; it's the hardest thing I've ever done, and I'm so thankful I did it.[/QUOTE]
In what way did you change your training?

 

[Cortez]

I was trained in the German system for the entirety of my FEI competition career. I thoroughly agree with your sentiment. When I began riding Spanish horses I had to rapidly and completely overhaul my method and way of thinking about horse training; it's the hardest thing I've ever done, and I'm so thankful I did it.

In what way did you change your training?[/QUOTE]
Woo, well pretty much ALL of it TBH….No more push, push, push; much, much softer hand (pretty much no hand at all), learning to wait for the horse to give you stuff rather than demanding it. Just changing the whole way you relate to the horse, because the Spanish horse is a very different beasty in his mind, his generosity and sensitivity, and in the way he carries himself. I just can’t bear riding other types of horse now, it’s like trudging through sludge.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edit: never mind

 

[honetpot]

Oh at least a couple of times, one for me, and one for my daughter. My lesson the guy was bordering abusive of teenager, and he had a go at me but, but I dropped out and did my own thing. My daughter was having a lesson on a young horse, and the person giving the lesson was asking too much too soon, so both 'failed'. You have a duty not to put your horse in an abusive situation, for its welfare and also for your long term working partnership, we were lucky our daughter's horse kept being the sweet horse he was, but some will start evasions that cause long term problems.
The horse on its terms has to see it's got something right, how ever small that is, you do not learn by repeating doing something wrong over and over again. It just reinforces the muscle memory.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edit: Did not mean to put this post here. ?