Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*

[flump]

I recently went to Beverly hills and then on to the ritz in calafirnia. The closest thing to healthy food we ate everyday was steak!! And omg Fiji water!!! I wish theysold that here!!! It is quite unhealthy there, they had a ice cream that had peanut butter an bacon in it fgs!!! But the amount of take outs was ridiculous! We had a mcdonalds one night an the size was double what it is here and covered in salt!! I don't know how people can eat like that!! I even saw a really fat lady sat with 2 supersize burgers in Hollywood!!

 

[lula]

Sorry but you are kidding yourself if you think you are ok to ride that pony at that weight.
An odd half a stone might not be an issue if you rode well and were balanced, but at that weight, your riding ability will make no odds.....ultimately you are damaging your horses long term health by subjecting him to carrying that amount of weight.
His back and joints are being subjected to weights far greater than he is supposed to be carrying.
None of those pictures look "ok" to me.

yup.
there seem to be a lot of these overweight threads lately.

As someone else, pointed out its really common sense.

if there is any doubt that the horse can carry your weight I would err on the side of caution and lose some. not that hard to do if you care about your horse and his future joint health surely?

and dressage kez, if you have to resort to personal remarks to other forum members you really have lost your argument love.

 

[Cazzah]

I am on a mission to not just lose weight but to change my habits longer term. I have a job that is either sat behind my desk or in my car enroute somewhere. It's busy. Fast food is rarely healthy. I weigh more than I want to or should because I have a shockingly sweet tooth and at times just need to grab 'something' between meetings.

I also have a young child and my middle region has not recovered as I would like - to a point where I would gladly face the pain and have a tummy tuck as I am so self conscious of it It hasn't responded fully to exercise though has improved somewhat.

I have a beautiful close coupled TB. He's not fine (8.5" bone) and we don't look 'odd' but I want to event to a decent level (hopefully Novice by the end of next year, then who knows?). I am what I would call reasonably fit - walk a hilly XC course no issues and gallop round under the time in a two point seat without needing breathing apparatus. I have regular lessons with a trainer I respect and I have discussed my weight with him. He doesn't see it as causing a problem at the minute but agreed losing some wouldn't hurt either.

I do get asked to ride other horses at times but have refused to do so on a few occasions as I would not feel confortable on something small or fine.

I have changed my shopping habits - lots more fresh food and limiting the amount of processed. I have also started swimming and will ramp this up over winter. My ankle ligaments are shot so I am limited to low impact exercise but have found a pilates class starting in a few weeks locally.

I could carry on as I am but I'm really not happy with my body and I want to do everything I can both for myself and also for my horse.

I would expect organisers, judges or instructors to speak up if there was obviously an issue with someone causing damage to their horse, but knowing how conscious I am I would always try to be tactful. There are always 'extremes' though and I'm afraid if I saw the guy on the grey the tact may go out the window.....

 

[Wagtail]

Even the bread is sweet and clearly has sugar in it. As did the natural yogurt (why???)

This is something that really bugged me when I have visited the states. I could not find bread that didn't taste sweet anywhere! Eventually, I did find a supermarket that sold various types of bread and found the only one that wasn't sweet was the Itallian one. How can they like sweet bread? 'Savoury' sandwiches taste awful!

 

[Wagtail]

Just a tiny point on the balanced heavy riders/unbalance lighter riders...


I ride light, im overweight... but it doenst make me any less of my actuall weight on the horses back. Im still exactly what I weigh... Just gentler on the horses back than a beginner bouncing around.

A beginner of my same weight would be more of a burden to the horse imo.
(hence why riding schools set lower limits very often, ofc work load too)

However.. it couldnt possibly be said that I feel less than my weight to the horse, im just gentler for him.


sooo..... imo... any rider... heavy or light... can either feel thier weight, or feel heavier. You cant possibly feel lighter.


I guess the problem comes with the phrase " riding light" I guess your not really riding light... its more that others ride heavy...


Does that make sense?

Sadly, it is often not the heavy person's fault that they think they ride light and therefore don't feel as heavy as they actually are to their horse. It is OTHER PEOPLE who tell them that to make them feel better. People believe what they want to believe.

 

[shep3]

The OP is hugely overweight, best for her and her poor horse to eat less, simple. There were no fatties in POW camps.

 

[smokey]

Yes, that is a good point well made, but the point I am trying to make is that a a good 'heavy rider' will always ride better than a poor 'light rider'. We all have seeen those that lean on the back on the saddle, slump in the saddle and so not have a clue.....Sadly, due to my working life - I have probabaly gained about 3 stone over the past three years - but I still ride relatively light, due to past riding experience.

While this may be true within the "normal" parameters of what constitutes "light" and "heavy" , I don't think anyone is going to be foolish enough to suggest that the guy on the grey would ride lighter than a novice 12 stone rider. I don't think this should be about how balanced or experienced a rider is, after all, someone with good posture will look slimmer than someone of the same weight who is slouched, but they still weigh the same. No matter how good that guys posture is, he's still morbidly obese. Poor pony!

 

[Littlelegs]

I fail to see why people with a responsibility eg judge, friend, instructor, vet etc have such an issue with saying something when a rider is too big. My child probably has a year left of being ideal for her 11.1. Then she'll probably be ok for another 2yrs of being too tall, & her riding being compromised, but ok to hack & play about. At which point I imagine she'll be too tall to even hack with jumping stirrups, although still well within ponys weight carrying capacity. She knows the day will come, hastened by the fact she's tall for her age. And she isn't looking forward to it, like lots of little kids with outgrown ponies she'll be upset. But its unfortunately a fact of life, why is weight so different? At least with weight you have a choice. I love fine 11hh ponies, but I accept I can't ride one, even if I was 5stone. Why can't 18stone plus people accept that fact too?

 

[BeesKnees]

Hee hee - would have brought one back years ago if they did!!

I have to say that when I'm dieting I don't struggle in the US. India is my most difficult country!

Different parts of the US seem to have different attitudes to diet - in LA it is easy to do fitness and healthy eating..

Yup I always put on weight in India. My husband has family there so we get FED and it's a total yummy carb-fest. Have to make a real effort to get back on track when we come home

What was interesting in Mexico was seeing the polarisation in the Americans as I said, and the difference in behaviour around food. The slimmer people just made completely different choices, for instance omelettes and fruit at breakfast versus the larger people who had piles of cakes and pancakes.

We also went to the gym whilst we were there, three times. Only once did I see a larger person in there.

Going to the gym on holiday might seem bonkers (judging by the looks we got from some other people there they clearly thought so!) We didn't want to go particularly, but were so glad we had when we got back and found out yet another family member (overweight with high blood pressure) had died from a massive stroke. He was 54

 

[ae76williams]

There are heavy riders and those who ride light - a heavy person can ride light (if in balance with the horse) and light rider can ride heavy if not........

True, but even so there is a limit.

Funny isn't it, how certain people think it's perfectly ok to insult overweight people on the street, but in cases like the guy on the grey, where the welfare of a horse is at stake, so-called animal lovers won't speak up.

 

[Wagtail]

I think the world has gone PC crazy. Some morbidly obese people are so wrapped up with what they see as a fattist society that they believe it is their right to do everything a thin person can. Of course that is true, until an innocent animal is involved. I blame the fact that other people are too afraid to tell them straight. How many times do we read (on that other forum) that their vet, physio, and instructor, all say they are fine riding the horse, when it is obvious to most people that they are not!. Either they are making it up or these people are lying to them, or are completely incompetent and only interested in lining their own pockets.

 

[Littlelegs]

Exactly Wagtail. It's like its considered 'fattist' to say someone who can't fit in a single plane seat should buy two. But if you're tall, its simply squash yourself in or pay for leg space.

 

[Flame_]

I fail to see why people with a responsibility eg judge, friend, instructor, vet etc have such an issue with saying something when a rider is too big. My child probably has a year left of being ideal for her 11.1. Then she'll probably be ok for another 2yrs of being too tall, & her riding being compromised, but ok to hack & play about. At which point I imagine she'll be too tall to even hack with jumping stirrups, although still well within ponys weight carrying capacity. She knows the day will come, hastened by the fact she's tall for her age. And she isn't looking forward to it, like lots of little kids with outgrown ponies she'll be upset. But its unfortunately a fact of life, why is weight so different? At least with weight you have a choice. I love fine 11hh ponies, but I accept I can't ride one, even if I was 5stone. Why can't 18stone plus people accept that fact too?

But your child has the fairly uncomplicated option of moving up to a larger horse. Very heavy people have a big (sorry) task trying to a) find and b) afford the size of horse they really need or they are faced with the prospect of not riding at all.

 

[EllieandGeorge]

The photograph of the man on the grey is just horrific! So sad to be putting the horse through that.
***IMO*** you look too heavy to be riding them horses too.

 

[skint1]

I worry that I am too fat for my loan horse, though she doesn't seem to suffer and gladly trots/canters uphill and can put in a heck of a gallop when she wants to as well

When she was offered to me, I spent ages stressing about my size, even though I've lost nearly 4 stone now I still know I am not a small thing, but her owners and my other friends told me to stop worrying (I drove them a bit mental I think).

I do hope that someone would say something if they thought I was too big, I love her to bits and would be devastated if I were hurting her. I am also a very novice rider. I try to be balanced, I don't know whether I am or not, I do a rising trot and a half seat when cantering so I am not bouncing on her spine.

I've been afraid to post a photo, but I will.

Since this photo I have lost a further half stone.

 

[Wagtail]

I worry that I am too fat for my loan horse, though she doesn't seem to suffer and gladly trots/canters uphill and can put in a heck of a gallop when she wants to as well

When she was offered to me, I spent ages stressing about my size, even though I've lost nearly 4 stone now I still know I am not a small thing, but her owners and my other friends told me to stop worrying (I drove them a bit mental I think).

I do hope that someone would say something if they thought I was too big, I love her to bits and would be devastated if I were hurting her. I am also a very novice rider. I try to be balanced, I don't know whether I am or not, I do a rising trot and a half seat when cantering so I am not bouncing on her spine.

I've been afraid to post a photo, but I will.
http://s868.photobucket.com/albums/ab248/jmasone/?action=view&current=maggie1.jpg
Since this photo I have lost a further half stone.

No, I don't think you are too heavy. Yes, you could do with losing more weight for your own health reasons but you do not look to be very tall and so are probably fine for a chunky mare like yours. I would be a little concerned about HER weight though! She looks as though she is probably carrying the equivalent extra weight of another one of you. If you could trim her down a little, it would help her a great deal.

 

[Littlelegs]

I don't see it is that different flame. Not all too heavy riders are 18stone plus. It could be someone of 14stone on a too small horse, or 12stone even. And sorry, but tough luck if you are of a size few horses can carry you comfortably. I've certainly seen riders who are probably around the size 14 range who are too heavy for their choice of mount. And its not mentioned in the way a too tall child is for fear of upsetting the rider about their weight. (and I don't mean size 14 is too big to ride, but eg on a small, elderly fine pony type with zero muscle it is. Interestingly the same show I saw this go unchallenged, I heard loads of comments about a too tall child. Yes, child distinctly too tall, but in no way too heavy).

 

[indie999]

No, I don't think you are too heavy. Yes, you could do with losing more weight for your own health reasons but you do not look to be very tall and so are probably fine for a chunky mare like yours. I would be a little concerned about HER weight though! She looks as though she is probably carrying the equivalent extra weight of another one of you. If you could trim her down a little, it would help her a great deal.

I think you look ok as you are clearly not tall and your legs are ok on your horse who is nice all rounder height. You also are not big around the middle(You have a waist..not a sack). I absolutely agree with the above remarks and was thinking the same. Horse needs to get rid of belly(for her joints), its not dire but could easily be tweaked. Yours is arms and legs and with some more riding you both can do it easily. Couple of hours hack will do that for you both twice week at least. Nice horse nice pic good luck.Sorted.

 

[QueenOfCadence]

Sorry OP but I do think you're far too large for either horse, but not nearly as bad as the man on the grey... But still unsuitable

I'm still young so I can't comment on the dieting side of things as I've been blessed with the super fast metabolism of a teenager , but I do think that equestrians should view themselves as sportsmen/women and treat their bodies as such. It's not healthy for you to be that weight and it's not healthy for your horse to have to carry you around

 

[skint1]

Thank you!
We are trying to slim her down in the same way I am slimming (more exercise/restricted grazing), she has lost a bit since then too ( think this photo is from early Sept) so hopefully we will emerge in the spring as an overall more svelte pair.

 

[FfionWinnie]

I think you look ok as you are clearly not tall and your legs are ok on your horse who is nice all rounder height. You also are not big around the middle(You have a waist..not a sack). I absolutely agree with the above remarks and was thinking the same. Horse needs to get rid of belly(for her joints), its not dire but could easily be tweaked. Yours is arms and legs and with some more riding you both can do it easily. Couple of hours hack will do that for you both twice week at least. Nice horse nice pic good luck.Sorted.

Completely agree. Well done on your weightloss as well skint.

 

[shadowboy]

When I'm allowed to finally release my parents research I can show you 13 years and £3million of research of weight and effect on horses. Currently as it has not been published or peer reviewed yet I can't show you the mountains of results but what I can say is horses who carried 30% of their fit body weight have had joint and lameness issues. 4 horses were subjected to this over the 13 years ( yes I know there may be some moral issues of such research) only 1 horse is still sound. The others have now gone into well cared for retirement. Those carrying 25% of their fit body weight have seen some issues but these appeared recoverable such as increased heart rate during exercise and required more frequent back treatments due to stiffness etc. of the 4 horses who carried 20% body weight all are sound (now aged 17) and only 1 experienced lameness during the 13 year research. Heart rates were never raised higher than the 4 control horses during activity. I have learned from this that a rider and tack should ideally not weigh more than 20% of their horses body weight. At a guess I recon the OP's horse weighs 600kg so that gives 120kg including tack but obviously common sense determines that opt conformation should ALWAYS be taken into account!

 

[TrasaM]

When to speak up? I find this a bit of a problem. I recently watched someone ride her horse really badly. Badly as in kicking legs and sawing and pulling on it's mouth. The poor horse didn't know which direction to go. Legs saying go forward reins saying stop! I got so cross about it as she also put a really tight flash band on so it could not escape her hands. Shed commented beforehand that she was not good enough for him and boy was she right about that. I commented to someone that if they ever day me ride like that to pull me off and slap me hard! Sadly I have a tendency to boil over amd did comment about it to the RI later only to find that she was the instructor of said rider. Foot in mouth moment as I worded it badly as in "what idiot is teaching this person to ride" not what I meant but it's what she heard I think. Can't take it back as I believe I was right in my observation and trying to explain further only meant I dug an even deeper hole. The poor grey looks like it's going to collapse under that man so Id like to believe that I would speak out. Like the rider I commented on, I suspect that they are aware of their respective problems but carry on regardless. In my book respect for the horse must be the first consideration.

 

[skint1]

I don't see it is that different flame. Not all too heavy riders are 18stone plus. It could be someone of 14stone on a too small horse, or 12stone even. And sorry, but tough luck if you are of a size few horses can carry you comfortably. I've certainly seen riders who are probably around the size 14 range who are too heavy for their choice of mount. And its not mentioned in the way a too tall child is for fear of upsetting the rider about their weight. (and I don't mean size 14 is too big to ride, but eg on a small, elderly fine pony type with zero muscle it is. Interestingly the same show I saw this go unchallenged, I heard loads of comments about a too tall child. Yes, child distinctly too tall, but in no way too heavy).

My daughter rode (and competed) her 13.1 section b gelding til she was 18, she was about 5ft6 weighed about 7 stone at the time so yes she was too tall for him, he is a little powerhouse and was fit as a fiddle though but she did get comments about being too tall for him every time they went out. She still hacks him out now and then but no longer jumps or competes with him.

 

[skint1]

When I'm allowed to finally release my parents research I can show you 13 years and £3million of research of weight and effect on horses. Currently as it has not been published or peer reviewed yet I can't show you the mountains of results but what I can say is horses who carried 30% of their fit body weight have had joint and lameness issues. 4 horses were subjected to this over the 13 years ( yes I know there may be some moral issues of such research) only 1 horse is still sound. The others have now gone into well cared for retirement. Those carrying 25% of their fit body weight have seen some issues but these appeared recoverable such as increased heart rate during exercise and required more frequent back treatments due to stiffness etc. of the 4 horses who carried 20% body weight all are sound (now aged 17) and only 1 experienced lameness during the 13 year research. Heart rates were never raised higher than the 4 control horses during activity. I have learned from this that a rider and tack should ideally not weigh more than 20% of their horses body weight. At a guess I recon the OP's horse weighs 600kg so that gives 120kg including tack but obviously common sense determines that opt conformation should ALWAYS be taken into account!

This is interesting, I would certainly find it good reading (well, the abstract and graphs anyway, my eyes get all crossed when I try and read heavy academic papers )

 

[Littlelegs]

Exactly what I'm getting at skint, people were quite happy to comment on your daughter, but I bet the same people wouldn't be as forthcoming on weight, despite the fact your daughter was fine. And I too think you look fine in the pic & well done with the weight loss.

 

[FairyLights]

Cruelty! the fat man is way too heavy for that horse and the fat woman on the bay in the first pic is too heavy for her horse. Poor poor horses.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

We got talking with an American couple (not overweight), who talked about how hard it is to get healthy and fresh food and how everything comes in a super sized portion.

It's choice, tho, not being unable to find decent food. I've managed to drop weight on holiday in America because we had a brilliant supermarket nearby, amazing fresh produce and we self catered.

I go to the states a lot, and while there is a lot of junk food, it is really easy to eat healthily too. I go to their supermarkets and there is loads of gorgeous fruit and vet, lean meat, fat free products.. Its just easier to eat junk.

Defo, like I said, choices need to be made.

But your child has the fairly uncomplicated option of moving up to a larger horse. Very heavy people have a big (sorry) task trying to a) find and b) afford the size of horse they really need or they are faced with the prospect of not riding at all.

Then don't ride and drop weight if you really do want to ride. It is a straightforward equation, stop shoving crap in your mouth, move more. I say this as someone who dropped 8 stones and now I'm having to do it again because I'm an idiot. So many people bang on about metabolism etc. The vast majority of people have an average metabolic rate and need to open their eyes to how much rubbish they're actually consuming.

 

[kerilli]

Exactly Wagtail. It's like its considered 'fattist' to say someone who can't fit in a single plane seat should buy two. But if you're tall, its simply squash yourself in or pay for leg space.

Is it considered fattist? But that's common sense! PC gone mad, then. If someone won't fit in 1 seat, they buy two. One of my relatives always used to pay for two seats on a plane back in the '60s-'70s onwards... she wasn't comfortable in 1 seat so she happily booked and paid for two. She certainly didn't expect the airline to make allowances for her!
I've got long legs, maybe I should expect all airlines to leave bigger spaces between their rows, just for people like me...

I wonder if this prevailing attitude actually encourages people to be lax about their weight, since no blame is apportioned, it is regarded as an affliction rather than a choice (or rather a million choices, one after the other...)

cinammon toast, I agree. and your username is just cruelty, btw...

 

[Wagtail]

Metabolism is an interesting thing. It is well known that the more you exercise, the higher your metabolism gets. So that just sitting still as a fit active person, burns more calories than an unfit inactive person. It is also said that as you age you put on weight easier. Could this be that your metabolism has slowed down because you have slowed down and are less active than when younger? I think so.

However, it is easier to lose weight when you are hugely overweight than when you are only a little overweight. This is because it takes more calories to maintain such a huge body than it does a smaller one. So this is also why weight loss slows down the closer you get to your goal.