Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*

[Moomin1]

People judged you to be young, based on the tone of your posting, and guess what, they were right!
The fact that you are young, almost by definition, means that you know less and have less life experience than an older person. You do not understand eating disorders, or mental illness, but you are not expected to, because you are a young person, who has received no training in these matters, or had much experience of them. However being young, does not excuse you being rude and asserting your opinion as fact.

Wow how ignorant!! Are you really suggesting that young people don't have any experience of mental illness?!! Do you know the average ages of Schizophrenia/depression onset/anxiety onset?! It is highly common in young people.

 

[rhino]

I think its a bit quick to judge the way I feel by my age, I have always had this opinion and probably always will. Just because I am young do you think i haven't experienced anything, I'm stupid, I've never been bullied? You think im quick to judge and 'arrogant', but you're just as sharp on the judgement.

I think people are trying very hard to give you the benefit of the doubt, hoping that your viewpoint is coming from a lack of maturity and/or experience, and not a total lack of empathy.

Eating disorders are killers. Whether anorexia, bulimia, BED or EDNOS, they mess with your head, your body and they can kill you. And surely that's what we are talking about here; anybody who is slightly overweight is not likely to cause a suitable horse any major problems. Someone at the far end of the scale, someone who does have the potential to seriously impact on a horse, surely that's someone who deserves some empathy. Not sympathy, empathy.

 

[Moomin1]

I think people are trying very hard to give you the benefit of the doubt, hoping that your viewpoint is coming from a lack of maturity and/or experience, and not a total lack of empathy.

Eating disorders are killers. Whether anorexia, bulimia, BED or EDNOS, they mess with your head, your body and they can kill you. And surely that's what we are talking about here; anybody who is slightly overweight is not likely to cause a suitable horse any major problems. Someone at the far end of the scale, someone who does have the potential to seriously impact on a horse, surely that's someone who deserves some empathy. Not sympathy, empathy.

Just being pedantic Rhino, but it's hard to empathise with someone unless you have actually experienced the same issues!

I do have sympathy for people with eating disorders. I have empathy with people who have suffered mental health issues like depression/anxiety, as I have been there. I just don't have sympathy for people who decide to ride a horse which is not comfortable carrying excessive amounts of weight.

 

[YorksG]

Wow how ignorant!! Are you really suggesting that young people don't have any experience of mental illness?!! Do you know the average ages of Schizophrenia/depression onset/anxiety onset?! It is highly common in young people.

Ignorant? I doubt it, I have been a psychiatric social worker for over 20 years and have been first an Approved Social Worker and then an Approved Mental Health Professional, under the terms of the Mental Health Act 1983 for the last 18 years, so yes indeed I do know the figures for the related ages of the ONSET of these illnesses. I suggest that you read my post again, as you appear to have mis-understood the point I was making.

 

[Blanket]

Dear Big Ben
As a person of few words; You are not too heavy for your horse as long as you don't plan on doing strenuous work such as jumping, but the man on the grey IS. Horse is straddled for heaven's sake!! I would say something. My words may be few, but I try to make them matter
As for everyone else who says "I just don't understand why people get/stay fat" Please watch "The Men Who Made Us Fat" and you may BEGIN to understand the psychology of food AND the addictive nature of so much of what we eat today
As for your weight loss journey; VERY good luck

 

[rhino]

Just being pedantic Rhino, but it's hard to empathise with someone unless you have actually experienced the same issues!

I do have sympathy for people with eating disorders. I have empathy with people who have suffered mental health issues like depression/anxiety, as I have been there. I just don't have sympathy for people who decide to ride a horse which is not comfortable carrying excessive amounts of weight.

Empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of others, comes from the Greek for 'suffering' IIRC

I've had long term issues with food and weight; I'd say I understand pretty well. I'm sure all of us have some sort of insecurity which means we can at least try and understand and empathise with others, no matter the cause.

I don't disagree that horse's should only be expected to carry a certain weight. I don't see what on earth that has to do with some of the comments made by Immy.

 

[Moomin1]

Ignorant? I doubt it, I have been a psychiatric social worker for over 20 years and have been first an Approved Social Worker and then an Approved Mental Health Professional, under the terms of the Mental Health Act 1983 for the last 18 years, so yes indeed I do know the figures for the related ages of the ONSET of these illnesses. I suggest that you read my post again, as you appear to have mis-understood the point I was making.

Your comment says that the poster 'doesn't understand eating disorders or mental health issues, but that's not to be expected because she is young.' Maybe you have worded it wrongly, but it certainly comes across as suggesting young people wouldn't have a clue about such things.

I wish that was the case. I have a best friend whom I have known since we were very little, and she has suffered depression from childhood days (5yrs onwards).

 

[Moomin1]

Empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of others, comes from the Greek for 'suffering' IIRC

I've had long term issues with food and weight; I'd say I understand pretty well. I'm sure all of us have some sort of insecurity which means we can at least try and understand and empathise with others, no matter the cause.

I don't disagree that horse's should only be expected to carry a certain weight. I don't see what on earth that has to do with some of the comments made by Immy.

A person cannot 'share' the feelings of another unless they are experiencing the same feelings. I do not have the ability to 'share' the feelings of a cancer sufferer, because (thankfully) I do not suffer what they suffer. I can only imagine, and try to put myself in their shoes. That's sympathy, not empathy. Fine line though, easily confused!

 

[rhino]

A person cannot 'share' the feelings of another unless they are experiencing the same feelings. I do not have the ability to 'share' the feelings of a cancer sufferer, because (thankfully) I do not suffer what they suffer. I can only imagine, and try to put myself in their shoes. That's sympathy, not empathy. Fine line though, easily confused!

I disagree. We are all totally different entities, so to use your example one cancer sufferer can and will react and feel very differently to another. You cannot ever find 2 people who are exactly identical so surely your definition of empathy doesn't mean a lot. Emotions are incredibly personal by their very nature. I would think many people with terminal illnesses, whether cancer or something else, would be able to share a certain level of understanding.

 

[YorksG]

Your comment says that the poster 'doesn't understand eating disorders or mental health issues, but that's not to be expected because she is young.' Maybe you have worded it wrongly, but it certainly comes across as suggesting young people wouldn't have a clue about such things.

I wish that was the case. I have a best friend whom I have known since we were very little, and she has suffered depression from childhood days (5yrs onwards).

A lot of people have illnessess which they do not understand, having one form of mental illness does not mean that you understand a different one. Your tone was rude and accused me of ignorance, but of course you understand all about mental illness because one of your friends has depression. I really shouldn't have bothered with all that training, should I, because of course, your 'on the job' training is so much more effective!

To be empathic, does not require you to have experienced the same situation, but to have the ability to understand the way the person who has experienced the situation, is likely to feel about it.

 

[Moomin1]

I disagree. We are all totally different entities, so to use your example one cancer sufferer can and will react and feel very differently to another. You cannot ever find 2 people who are exactly identical so surely your definition of empathy doesn't mean a lot. I would think many people with terminal illnesses, whether cancer or something else, would be able to share a certain level of understanding.

Maybe not, but that is the way it is taught and interpreted in A level and degree English!

Then again, they add so much crap into dictionaries these days I doubt any of it matters anymore anyway! Lol!

Back to the original subject though, yes I think OP looks too heavy for the horses she is riding. No I don't think she looks too heavy to ride, given the correct horse.

I do feel for people with weight issues, but my concerns are directed more at the horse, but that's just my nature (not necessarily a good thing! )

 

[Moomin1]

A lot of people have illnessess which they do not understand, having one form of mental illness does not mean that you understand a different one. Your tone was rude and accused me of ignorance, but of course you understand all about mental illness because one of your friends has depression. I really shouldn't have bothered with all that training, should I, because of course, your 'on the job' training is so much more effective!

To be empathic, does not require you to have experienced the same situation, but to have the ability to understand the way the person who has experienced the situation, is likely to feel about it.

Have you suffered mental illness at all YorksG? Just out of interest.

I have. I have suffered severe depression coupled with severe anxiety. It was horrible. Still on meds now three years later. All down to bullying at work which resulted in the dismissal of my boss and a two year investigation.

 

[rhino]

Maybe not, but that is the way it is taught and interpreted in A level and degree English!

Interesting, because I'm involved in a (very successful and heavily evidence-based) programme designed to help teach young children about empathy. Is there any point if they can't understand something unless they have experienced the exact same thing, coming from the exact same background and reacting to it the exact same way?

 

[YorksG]

Have you suffered mental illness at all YorksG? Just out of interest.

I have. I have suffered severe depression coupled with severe anxiety. It was horrible. Still on meds now three years later. All down to bullying at work which resulted in the dismissal of my boss and a two year investigation.

No i haven't, which by your previous posts makes me ignorant of the issues. Still no apology for the ignorance comment I see. As I suggested earlier on, a younger person has less experience of life and is therefore, more unlikely to understand the issues involved, which ImmyS was demonstrating rather vividly, I thought.

 

[Moomin1]

Interesting, because I'm involved in a (very successful and heavily evidence-based) programme designed to help teach young children about empathy. Is there any point if they can't understand something unless they have experienced the exact same thing, coming from the exact same background and reacting to it the exact same way?

I don't know because I haven't experienced an eating disorder personally. I can only imagine what they must go through, and offer my sympathy and compassion. I can empathise with people who have suffered depression as I have suffered from it so I have more understanding and personal experience of what they are going through. Before I had it, I could never ever have empathised, because I thought depression was just 'feeling down in the dumps'. The terror that I went through I can never ever explain to anyone who hasn't suffered from it. I would only expect those people to offer sympathy, not empathy.

I suppose it all depends on people's interpretation of the words themselves.

Sounds like a good project though - we def need more of those sorts of things in the world!!

 

[Moomin1]

No i haven't, which by your previous posts makes me ignorant of the issues. Still no apology for the ignorance comment I see. As I suggested earlier on, a younger person has less experience of life and is therefore, more unlikely to understand the issues involved, which ImmyS was demonstrating rather vividly, I thought.

Errm, I don't see why you should get an apology?!!!

I still think, particularly given your occupation, you should know that there are many young people out there that unfortunately do suffer mental health issues, and that particular poster, for all you are aware, may do too.

I agree though that suffering one mental health issue does not give knowledge of others.

 

[YorksG]

Errm, I don't see why you should get an apology?!!!

I still think, particularly given your occupation, you should know that there are many young people out there that unfortunately do suffer mental health issues, and that particular poster, for all you are aware, may do too.

I agree though that suffering one mental health issue does not give knowledge of others.

I suggest you read the posts in question again. Then perhaps you will see how rude you were in declaring me ignorant. I would also point out that the percentage of people in the secondary mental health services, under 25, who remain in need of services for longer than six months, is about 10% of the patient population, so not a vast number in the great scheme of things.

 

[Moomin1]

I suggest you read the posts in question again. Then perhaps you will see how rude you were in declaring me ignorant. I would also point out that the percentage of people in the secondary mental health services, under 25, who remain in need of services for longer than six months, is about 10% of the patient population, so not a vast number in the great scheme of things.

REMAIN IN NEED of services. That's very different to suffering from mental illness. It just means they respond quicker/are more receptive to treatment.

I couldn't give two *****s if you think I was rude or not!

 

[FluffyFeathers]

This thread has made me lol!

What started as a simple yet controversial topic seems to have ended so far with a one-up-manship discussion on qualifications and experience of mental health and obesity.

In response t

 

[FluffyFeathers]

In response to the OP, I think you are a little heavy for both you horses. However, this can be reversed by december/january with a strict diet and some good old fashioned exercise. Nothings unreversible - just find a scrap of motivation, hang onto it for dear life, and keep going.

 

[jump?howhigh]

I think the problem is in the western world it is now socially acceptable to be overweight, and we see more people suffering from obesity due to our sedentary lifestyles. If you don't have a medical condition that causes the weight than you should think to yourself if i was my horse would i carry me? Because tbh i think its cruel to keep your horse in tip top condition then not bother with yourself.

Oh and the comment about heavier riding light is bull**** if you are unbalanced at 8 stone your 8 stone etc you do not gain or loose weight by being balanced you just are putting the weight in a certain area(s)

 

[Wagtail]

But I'm not just talking about the fact of riding, and that because people are thin they can ride better, but in my opinion why would you be ok with being fat when it has/can have detrimental effects on your health?

This thread isn't about overweight people and why they are overweight or whether or not they are happy. It is about whether they are too heavy for their horse and whether they should be taking a break from riding until they are a more managable weight for their particular horse.

 

[Shysmum]

^^^^^ THIS.

 

[Wagtail]

Seriously, I am a little bit shocked. However, I've learnt to just laugh at a lot of these comments and actually feel sorry for people with such simple naive views as I'm sure everybody who thinks fat people are fat because they just choose to eat and eat are just perfect riders!

Would love to come see a lot of you ride or jump, wait for those jabbing hands to appear over a jump, wait for you to get unbalanced because essentially, fat people just bounce around on the saddle without any control of their bodies? So skinny people, my goodness, you must be top riders and be in perfect harmony - after all you don't have ANY fat on you!

Oh, that's right - you're not perfect! Yes, we ask horses to carry us, yes we have to be careful on what horses we ride, yes whether we ride in a light seat or a heavy seat we still weigh the same amount. BUT we can help the horse out and we can help ourselves out when riding. Just like you skinny people who are so judgemental use your stomach muscles, we do too. Oh, you didn't even realise we had muscles under all this fat?

Stop being so ridiculous. As long as the horses are happy then that's all that counts - they let us know if we're too heavy. They wouldn't do their job properly otherwise. I ride my horse and jump and compete him xc/sj/dressage he copes perfectly and has done for YEARS! A friend got on, same weight as me, but in the 6ft3 region and my horse could barely walk. For him it was the height that was the problem, not the weight. If I was too heavy for him he wouldn't be out jumping 3ft courses with ease. Never, EVER, have I had a problem with this lameness or bad backs that automatically occur when fat people sit on a horse and I can honestly say that this is after a decade . . . not just a year. So no, it doesn't lead to damage of a horse in the long term otherwise it would have shown up by now.

So remember, if you want to judge a fat person, judge yourself first and make sure you're perfect in every way!

I have no idea whether you are too heavy for your horse or not as you have not posted pictures. Fat to some people is 12 stone, to others it is 25 stone. One lady on here is almost 16 stone but everyone said she was fine on her horse because the picture she posted showed her on a substantial mare that was an obvious weight carrier.

I do find it odd that your horse could hardly walk though because someone was taller. It would worry me, if you saw your horse staggering with someone the same weight as you but taller. The horse is obviously not up to that weight. You were observing from the ground, whereas when you ride yourself, you are not.

ETA: It annoys me when people say horses will let you know if you are too heavy. That to me shows little knowledge about horses.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Your comment says that the poster 'doesn't understand eating disorders or mental health issues, but that's not to be expected because she is young.' Maybe you have worded it wrongly, but it certainly comes across as suggesting young people wouldn't have a clue about such things.

I wish that was the case. I have a best friend whom I have known since we were very little, and she has suffered depression from childhood days (5yrs onwards).

I think you have misunderstood actually. The way I read the post was completely different to how you have interpreted it.

Of course a young person has less life experience than an older person. How could they not.

 

[FfionWinnie]

A person cannot 'share' the feelings of another unless they are experiencing the same feelings. I do not have the ability to 'share' the feelings of a cancer sufferer, because (thankfully) I do not suffer what they suffer. I can only imagine, and try to put myself in their shoes. That's sympathy, not empathy. Fine line though, easily confused!

Empathy: The ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

Sympathy: Feelings of pity or sorrow for another's misfortune.

You do not have to directly experience something to be empathic or sympathetic.

 

[Montyforever]

I used to eat loads and put on lots of weight when I was stuck in the house with anxiety/agorophobia. Then slowly started to convince myself that I was allergic to wheat and other foods and survived on just fruit for a while, then got very ill (not related to what I was eating amazingly!) and ended up in hospital and I was so out of it I started eating normally again
I put on tons of weight at first then lost it all and more in the end.

I have sympathy/empathy with both sides of eating disorders because I've been through it, but I would never ever have ridden when I was really overweight. And wouldn't have at the other end of the scales either as I would have been far too weak!

Difficult one to define what's too much though, everyone has different opinions on it and every horse has different limits!

 

[chokablok]

You do not understand eating disorders, or mental illness, but you are not expected to, because you are a young person, who has received no training in these matters, or had much experience of them.

Excuse me but you are very wrong. Even worse that you work in this field and have that opionion

I myself, at 19, have mental health issues, stemming from the age of 11. I know friends of similar ages who have also struggled. I'm also studying psychology. I find your comment highly offensive - talk about generalisation

Just realised the comment may have been aimed specifically at Immy - in which case you don't know enough about her to make such remarks.

 

[chokablok]

No i haven't, which by your previous posts makes me ignorant of the issues. Still no apology for the ignorance comment I see. As I suggested earlier on, a younger person has less experience of life and is therefore, more unlikely to understand the issues involved, which ImmyS was demonstrating rather vividly, I thought.

Oh dear. So people with mental illnesses other than the specific one you are talking about, or young people cannot possibly understand mental illness to the extent you do because, despite having no experience, you are old and work in the mental health sector. Lovely.

 

[Hecken92]

See, at home, I ride a 17hh Oldenburg or a 15.2hh gypsy cob and personally, I'd never ride smaller as I feel like I'm too big (in fact, I was once told I was too heavy to exercise a friends 15.2 TB - fair enough, I thought I was too!). But at uni, I've been offered a 14.2 Arab to ride (the owner also has highlands, but she allocated me the Arab!) and she carries me fine and I look fine, so this has totally thrown me! I'd say a horses ability to carry weight depends on breed - the 15.2 TB was too delicate for me but the Arab is fine.... I'd hope people wouldn't think I'm too big for any of mine... In fact, I think I'll be brave and post pics later today in here to see if anyone does!