Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*

[FionaM12]

I think its a bit quick to judge the way I feel by my age, I have always had this opinion and probably always will. Just because I am young do you think i haven't experienced anything, I'm stupid, I've never been bullied? You think im quick to judge and 'arrogant', but you're just as sharp on the judgement.

No-one was judging the way you feel by your age. We don't know how old you are, but guessed (accurately it seems ) by the immaturity of your posts.

I use the word immature here not as an insult, btw, but literally: meaning you're very young. Of course that doesn't mean you've not experienced anything, but what is clear from your posts is that you have no knowledge of eating disorders/weight issues. There are people on this thread who are dealing with such major and even life-threatening health issues. Surely you can understand that when someone comes on and spouts that they "feel no compassion" and suggests they don't even deserve funding to help them, some might get a little upset?

No-one's judging you as such or saying you're stupid, we don't know you. But we can judge your comments.

You are a teenager I think? Trust me, it's very, very unlikely you will "probably always" keep your current opinions!

 

[alainax]

Big Ben's mum.... You sure know how to get them talking!

I love it, better than a good book!


I do find both topics very interesting, being a rider, someone who has put on and lost lots of weight, and having a degree in psychology

To get back on topic...

The pic of the Grey arab is shocking, I would have to say something, and I am the type of person who usually wouldnt. I do think it is the place of the trainers, vets, friends etc to make some helpfull suggestions - and not so much strangers (unless its a shockign case like the arab).

A stranger saying - "you horrible cruel pony squishing idoit!" coudl possibly have the complete opposite effect and result in an emotional eater putting on more weight!

A friend saying - "you know.. if we worked together to shed some pounds, im sure you would see even more of a spring in his step and look great together" or somthign similar is a nice positive encouragement.

Sometimes it helps to visualise the weight, like...

I lost 17lbs this month. So that would be like me taking over 3 bricks off the horses back ( even imagine the bricks in saddle bags or similar). Imagine how great it would feel for the horse as each of these bricks is removed


On the forst week I lost the weight of my cat... I picked him up and held him against my belly and walked around for a bit thinking " wow, a full cat!" needless to say... they cat was very unimpressed

 

[SnowPhony]

I cannot trawl through the whole thread, but on skimming I have to say a couple of things.

You cannot 'ride light'. If you weigh 12 stone you weigh 12 stone, if you weigh 20 you weigh 20. Really annoys me hearing 'oh but I ride light.' You don't, you've been told that to make you feel better.

Another thing....horses put up with an awful lot and will very rarely tell you, you are too heavy. They are amazing tolerant animals and it pains me how much we humans abuse that sometimes. Are all these people claiming they are fine because their horse hasn't told them different saying the guy in the opening post isn't too heavy for the little grey?

Some people are so selfish and really should have a think about what they are doing to their horses joints. Just because you can ride, doesn't mean you should.

 

[Littlelegs]

I do think its too simplistic to say 'people shouldn't be obese'. I know a very young child who is already obese. The parents simply over feed her, & themselves, & don't exercise. Otherwise her childhood is pretty happy at the moment. But as she becomes more overweight by the year, I doubt it will remain so. By her teens she'll be morbidly obese I imagine. Will that be self inflicted? No of course not. It will be her upbringing to blame. And given the self esteem issues wrapped up with size, she'll no doubt find it hard to change. The one thing I do struggle with is how many people claim its a compulsive eating disorder. Not posts on here, but in real life. Lots of people, myself included have experienced unpleasant childhoods, but sooner or later you have to accept that & move on if you want to ever be happy. Rather than using it as a fall back & excuse. I also think over use of food addiction for everyone with a weight issue discredits the very real problems of those who do have an addiction.
I'm naturally thin & usually eat loads. But when I'm very upset, or stressed I don't eat. That doesn't mean I would trivialise anorexia by saying I suffer from it. Lots of people, fat & thin don't eat when upset. So for every single over weight person to claim its an eating disorder because they sometimes comfort eat trivialises the problem for those who do have real issues.

 

[Bojingles]

Wow, this thread has veered off at a few tangents since I went to bed!

I don't think anyone's suggesting fat people are bad people or bad riders; these aren't the issues. The issue is how much a horse can reasonably be expected to carry and who should speak up on their behalf and when. It's not fat-bashing.

I come at this from both sides of the fat/skinny fence. Until my late 30s I was pretty skinny: 5'5" and never got above 8 stone 5, usually hovered around 8 stone. This wasn't through any great effort; I always had a pretty healthy diet and stopped eating when I wasn't hungry anymore; never really thought about food although I enjoyed it.

Then, in my late 30s, I was prescribed an anti-depressant, Mirtazapine, and in a very short space of time put on over 4 stone. I was suddenly faced with the new me, overweight, and the question of how to lose the weight. And I discovered it's not easy. Not at all. I've long sinced stop taking Mirtazapine and the insane carb cravings have stopped, but I feel as if my brain has been completely rewired where food is concerned. I can't look at a loaf of bread without eating the whole lot and I quite often get up in the middle of the night and, almost in a trance, eat anything to hand. In fact, for many months, I did this in my sleep.

I lost 2 stone on the Dukan diet which suited me because I live alone and could clear the house of easily-scoffable carbs and just get on with it. I've since had an illness and an injury and the weight has crept up again. It's a constant battle I never used to have to fight.

Just saying, it's rarely simple or clear-cut

 

[Wagtail]

I do think its too simplistic to say 'people shouldn't be obese'. I know a very young child who is already obese. The parents simply over feed her, & themselves, & don't exercise. Otherwise her childhood is pretty happy at the moment. But as she becomes more overweight by the year, I doubt it will remain so. By her teens she'll be morbidly obese I imagine. Will that be self inflicted? No of course not. It will be her upbringing to blame. And given the self esteem issues wrapped up with size, she'll no doubt find it hard to change. The one thing I do struggle with is how many people claim its a compulsive eating disorder. Not posts on here, but in real life. Lots of people, myself included have experienced unpleasant childhoods, but sooner or later you have to accept that & move on if you want to ever be happy. Rather than using it as a fall back & excuse. I also think over use of food addiction for everyone with a weight issue discredits the very real problems of those who do have an addiction.
I'm naturally thin & usually eat loads. But when I'm very upset, or stressed I don't eat. That doesn't mean I would trivialise anorexia by saying I suffer from it. Lots of people, fat & thin don't eat when upset. So for every single over weight person to claim its an eating disorder because they sometimes comfort eat trivialises the problem for those who do have real issues.

I am like you, LL, if I am upset or depressed, I don't eat. It is the last thing I feel like doing. I feel far too churned up and nauseous. Just shows how different everyone is and how hard it is to understand the behaviours and thinking of people who are the opposite.

 

[Pale Rider]

Well, nutrition is at the root of all these problems. When I was at school, obese kids were a rarity, and they always said it was glandular. Looking back, it was rubbish, the fat kids ate too much of the wrong stuff and were too fat and unfit to exercise.
If you are going to ride, no matter how big you are you need to be fit. If your obese like some of the photos, your not fit, just fat.
Making tack to fit fat unfit riders is wrong and just a bit cruel, unless the horse is big enough, like some medieval charger.

 

[SadKen]

Have read the thread with interest. I am not good at confrontation so would get my OH to say something to the chap on the grey. Actually I think he would probably just push him off and run away with the horse, hehe. If it needs saying to that extent, anyone should be able to say something, but word it as politely as possible which is probably more likely to get results.

I'm hypothyroid and put on 2 stone in 6 months despite a really low cal diet. Since being diagnosed and treated, I've had to eat a lot more and the weight has come off. If you are hypo (and a huge number of folk are borderline) you have to eat higher protein, more often and in smaller portions. You also have to exercise a LOT but slowly is better, so lots of walking. I dropped 3stone from 13 to 10, and did go below that when hitting the gym. I wanted to make life easier for my horse but also felt uncomfortable, like looking in the mirror at someone who wasn't me. Since I got my lad a month ago, some more has come off but my diet is bad as I'm tired and want sugar to function. Being aware is half the battle. If you are hypo or borderline, stay away from fluoride as it impedes the thyroid. OP you are very brave to post pics. I feel bigger than my fighting weight which I think is about 9stone, so I won't post unless I get to that!

 

[Big Ben]

Big Ben's mum.... You sure know how to get them talking!

I love it, better than a good book!

.......................................

I lost 17lbs this month. So that would be like me taking over 3 bricks off the horses back ( even imagine the bricks in saddle bags or similar). Imagine how great it would feel for the horse as each of these bricks is removed


On the forst week I lost the weight of my cat... I picked him up and held him against my belly and walked around for a bit thinking " wow, a full cat!" needless to say... they cat was very unimpressed

It is an interesting read for sure, I knew that it would never stay on the original question, which was simply when should you speak up

HUGE congratulations on the 17 pounds, that is fantastic, and LOL to the poor cat.

 

[meesha]

Hi Big Ben - I have to ask - will you change anything after reading this thread ? I am just curious to see if it has had any impact one way or another !

 

[browbrow]

But you cannot physically make yourself weigh any less. A 300lb rider is always going to be 300lb, whether they have good seat and hands or not.

And for what it's worth, I would not be allowing the OP on any of my similarly built horses, but I guess that's personal choice.

Bob on reality check totally echo your words It's like when ppl say muscle weighs more than fat lol xx

 

[Big Ben]

Will I change anything? Well sorry not from reading this thread, apart from taking up the offers of support from those who have kindly made it.

I will still be riding Ben, short slow rides, with a lot more fittening ground work for both of us.

I will still choose not to ride Willow until I have lost a bunch of weight.

I will continue to ground work Emmy and build our relationship.

I never set out to ask permission or affirmation that riding Ben is OK, for that I simply have to rely on him, and the people around us to keep us straight, so for those who think that I was seeking justification for myself, for this thread it simply is not the case.

I am 1 week out from setting out on the path of severe diet again, I have already lost enough that my belt is one notch tighter, YEAH, but it is just far to slow for me. This isn't because of this thread, or any other like it but because of my own desire to be able to ride the girls next year, and I know that I am currently to heavy for them.

It is interesting comparing views from both sides of the pond, on the suitability of horses to people, and I'm not totally sure where that comes from, I could be totally off base, but I do think some of it comes from the fact that there are still a lot of working horses out here. They are expected to carry grown up all day in the cattle yards, some out on the range, there are some conditions where a horse still beats a machine for getting the job done.

Back to Big Ben, last weekend I took him over to the local show grounds and had a couple of lessons on him, partly to get him used to loading and going somewhere, he has been a pig to load, but hopped on and off for all four journeys with minimum fuss, GOOD BOY BEN, partly to get some tips on our ground work, For God's sake Ben GROW A PAIR, and then a short lesson in the saddle, working on enter at A, walk to X halt salute, just walking straight and halting square. I don't believe that it caused him much stress, and it made me feel GREAT. We got home I sorted Ben out, fed groomed, put him up, and came in the house with a huge smile, still looking whale like in my Kerrits, but fully inspired to make the changes I need to so I can get the best from the big guy. Such a different feel to taste what it is you want to get, rather than sitting on the sofa in your sweat pants thinking about it.

Yup, we are on T -7 and counting, the booze is all gone, and no more will be brought, the ice cream, the good biscuits, the nice bread, all finished, this week will be about preparations to ensure success

 

[alainax]

Bob on reality check totally echo your words It's like when ppl say muscle weighs more than fat lol xx

In terms of over all comparative mass/size... it does.

Ofc it depends on the contex... as 1lb of fat weighs the same as 1lb of muscle like a ton of feathers and a ton of bricks

But thats not how its usually meant Like for example athletes with such low body fat can still be obese.... as the ridiculous BMI height to weight calculation makes it so.


As has been discussed to death, and mentioned over and over earlier... Imo a better term will be "riding heavy"

Ie - a 10stone balance rider may feel 10 stone, but a 10stone poor rider may feel alot more of a burden. Any one who carried a sleeping child or a dead weight will know this.

Ofc you cant defy the laws of gravity and ride lighter than you actually weigh - but you can be much less of a burden than someone "riding heavy"

 

[ROMANY 1959]

I was a heavy rider, but just couldn't get below 17. Stone, and I am near 6 ft tall so... I took up carriage driving and got a sharer for big lad, I never felt safe in the saddle, balance just was not there at my weight. I still do all the things with my horse, but with 4. Wheels and a pair of shafts. It has also been quite good for the other horses to see him pulling a carriage, their eyes were on stalks at first now it's only new horses on the yard that spook at it.
There are horses who can carry weight for short distances, but I just was not happy doing it so gave up in the saddle for driving. Sorted...

 

[maree t]

I have not entered into this before because I felt a bit at a loss. I have varied in weight from 7 stone through to 14 stone due to graves disease (thyroid)and antibiotics interfered with my system , I had most of mine removed when i was 22. I am a LOT older now !!
I hated being 7 stone which is what I was for years and had two ponies that happily carried me. After the kids were born I developed an obsession with food . I had severe morning sickness with them both involving hospitalisation at times which meant I sat and watched cooking programmes day and night dreaming of what I would eat when I could eat again. I then developed diabetes linked to the thyroid disease. What a mess !. I try to watch what I eat and weigh about 12 stone now but i am fairly fit and very active.
I do see riders that I think are overweight at shows but it would have to be extreme for me to say anything.
I dont ride myself at the moment but do enjoy driving but when the kids do get something that is big enough and strong enough who knows I might get back in the saddle myself one of these days.

 

[Kirwil]

There is still lots you can do with your horses in the times you're carrying too much weight. I ride my brother's Welshies and anytime I go over 8 stone I start working from the ground doing favourite routes on foot is a pretty good motivator for getting back to weight As are the amused looks people give you when you jog past them with a pony in tow
Obviously if you're well balanced and "light" then their backs will be happier but all of your weight and all of your tack is sat on their leg joints and no amount of balance will adjust how that feels to the horse (kind of like sprun and unsprung weight affecting car performance I guess). It can be really hard to tell how your horse/pony is coping when you're on top, get a mate to film you so you can sit down and objectively see how they cope through transitions.

 

[paddi22]

I am 1 week out from setting out on the path of severe diet again, I have already lost enough that my belt is one notch tighter, YEAH, but it is just far to slow for me.

But the only way to lose it properly IS for it come off slowly. Anything else just won't work. My sister was dangerously overweight and ended up in a government sponsored to help people lose weight so they could get a gastric band. They would meet with a doctor, a nutrionist, a exercise persion and a counsellor.

I went with her to a couple of sessions and they were amazing. They said diets didn't work. There was no need to diet- all that was needed was healthy eating and exercise. My sister was amazing and lost eight stone. When anyone asked her what diet she did, she said 'none'. she said the food counselling helped the most. There is no point doing a diet unless you understand why you have the relationship with food that you have.

Now she has an amazing attitude to food, she doesn't diet or cut calories. She eats as healthy as she can, but if she wants a treat she will have a controlled portion whenever she wants, and just do a few minutes extra exercise the next day. But she said the conselling was the best thing to help her understand her relationship with food.

But the main thing the programme stressed was that she spent years putting the weight on, so it would take years to get off, and that was the proper way to do it.

You sound like a strong character and you have a fantastic incentive to lose the weight. I'm sure you have tried diets before and fallen off the wagon. If my sister was here she'd give better advice, but im 100% sure she's say to do counselling for the food issues, as until they are sorted you are fighting the same battle over and over again.

You have gorgeous horses so i'm sure we will see pics of you riding happily on them in time!

 

[Big Ben]

Hi Paddi, thank you so much for sharing your concerns and insight into weight loss, I really appreciate you taking the time to type it all out, and yes I know it is very sound advice.....and you know it's coming, so I won't make you wait any longer

BUT

I have been trying the slow eat healthy way, and it just isn't doing it for me, I have lost the same couple of pounds again and again since summer, I've said before I'm not much of a moderation person.

I'm also 55 and counting, I have wasted huge chunks of my life by being a watcher rather than a competitor in lifes game, so I need to get going as soon as I can.

This winter is going to be all or nothing, because it will mean I can ride next year, and ride properly, and that is my first goal, then I have 2 years after that to get to the right weight to ride my little girl when she comes to 4 years old

And she is my long term goal, my last horse, my last foal, I don't intend to breed another, but yeah, a great long term motivation

 

[Bojingles]

Hi Big Ben, I've been following this thread with interest. In my own mind I'm not 100% comfortable with you riding Ben; if it were me, I would wait.

That said, I just wanted to wish you all the very best with your weight loss plan. You're clearly determined and very aware of the concrete benefits it will bring. You've got your short-term goals, and your longer term, and I just think it's brilliant - everything to play for! You say this winter is make or break - come on here, keep us updated, we'll help .

Your little girl's gorgeous by the way. Loving the mealy muzzle - what's her breeding?

 

[Aztecflyer]

Think i read an article on horses dying because the rider was more the 12 stone?

Oh no wait i havent?

Its personal choice, there is nothing to say that being fat and riding is an offence. as long as the horse is fit and well!

 

[Clava]

Think i read an article on horses dying because the rider was more the 12 stone?

Oh no wait i havent?

Its personal choice, there is nothing to say that being fat and riding is an offence. as long as the horse is fit and well!

It is an offence to the animal if the rider is too fat and the horse must be fit and well and more than capable of taking the rider.

 

[Serephin]

I have been trying the slow eat healthy way, and it just isn't doing it for me, I have lost the same couple of pounds again and again since summer, I've said before I'm not much of a moderation person.

Cut out wheat - seriously.

Modern wheat is the work of the devil! I am currently reading a good book called 'Wheat Belly' - its about how we are all getting fat despite eating what we are told is healthy.

I had to cut gluten out of my diet due to autoimmune disease. I don't miss it and no longer get bloated and feel sooooo much better.

 

[Big Ben]

Hi Big Ben, I've been following this thread with interest. In my own mind I'm not 100% comfortable with you riding Ben; if it were me, I would wait.

That said, I just wanted to wish you all the very best with your weight loss plan. You're clearly determined and very aware of the concrete benefits it will bring. You've got your short-term goals, and your longer term, and I just think it's brilliant - everything to play for! You say this winter is make or break - come on here, keep us updated, we'll help .

Your little girl's gorgeous by the way. Loving the mealy muzzle - what's her breeding?

Thanks for the support, and don't worry, lacking a real life support network of any sort, you guys have been voted as my cheering, 4rse kicking, picking up and dusting off crew as needed.

Thanks for the nice things about my little Angel, she is out of Just for Ace my beautiful Arab

by Alto, registered Haflinger

Not exactly a planed breeding, Ace was bought scanned safely on foal to a gorgeous Arab, but slipped it without us realizing.

 

[Big Ben]

Think i read an article on horses dying because the rider was more the 12 stone?

Only if bare foot, Parelli trained, over rugged dealer purchased French rescue wearing a standing martingale

 

[Hippona]

I cannot trawl through the whole thread, but on skimming I have to say a couple of things.

You cannot 'ride light'. If you weigh 12 stone you weigh 12 stone, if you weigh 20 you weigh 20. Really annoys me hearing 'oh but I ride light.' You don't, you've been told that to make you feel better.

Another thing....horses put up with an awful lot and will very rarely tell you, you are too heavy. They are amazing tolerant animals and it pains me how much we humans abuse that sometimes. Are all these people claiming they are fine because their horse hasn't told them different saying the guy in the opening post isn't too heavy for the little grey?

Some people are so selfish and really should have a think about what they are doing to their horses joints. Just because you can ride, doesn't mean you should.

What she said.

 

[RealityCheck]

I cannot trawl through the whole thread, but on skimming I have to say a couple of things.

You cannot 'ride light'. If you weigh 12 stone you weigh 12 stone, if you weigh 20 you weigh 20. Really annoys me hearing 'oh but I ride light.' You don't, you've been told that to make you feel better.

Another thing....horses put up with an awful lot and will very rarely tell you, you are too heavy. They are amazing tolerant animals and it pains me how much we humans abuse that sometimes. Are all these people claiming they are fine because their horse hasn't told them different saying the guy in the opening post isn't too heavy for the little grey?

Some people are so selfish and really should have a think about what they are doing to their horses joints. Just because you can ride, doesn't mean you should.

This is all correct. One of my closest friends is an equine vet and autopsy tech, her practice works with some of the country's best bred horses, and most high up sports horses.

She has told me many a tale about performing examinations on horses that look fine on the outside, but whose insides have been torn up by spurs and are scarred to bits. Just because something looks fine on the outside, and keeps on going, doesn't me it is fine, or okay.

I know I said it earlier in the thread, but IMO it deserves repeating - you riding those horses is not okay. You are too big, far too big. The fact that you think that it's acceptable, to be frank disgusts me. I don't see much difference visualizing you on the second horse with the man on the grey, looks like similar proportions to me - other than the grey being underweight, even if that horse was in perfect condition, people would still be saying for disgusting and cruel he is.

I would never tell an individual to lose weight to fit my idea of beauty or health - but I have no problems telling you here, because it isn't your own life or health being ruined by it; it is a horse who isn't saying no. That doesn't mean he isn't hurting.

 

[ozpoz]

Re Reading this, I think my answer to the OP is that it should be the "heavy riders" themselves, who should speak out for animal welfare, and take responsibility for their own actions.
By dismounting.

I'm really not being unsympathetic, I stopped riding for many years due to issues (imbalance) which i felt would adversely affect any horse I rode.Issue now sorted, it is a joy to ride again.
I wish everyone who struggles with issues which compromise their horses wellbeing the best of luck- often time,patience,perseverance and circumstances will sort everything out!

 

[brighthair]

I am very careful which horses I get on with my weight. It's kind of easier though as I am tall so not likely to get on anything under 16hh anyway! I wouldn't get on a TB/lightweight or anything young at all
I agree it isn't easy, I really really work, and when I say that I mean to the point of vomiting in the gym. I've done an hours circuits tonight including squats with 15kg weights, dead lifts, lunges with 10kg, holding the plank for over a minute.. And that was an hours workout with 15 seconds rest between each exercise. I do that three times a week. I'm limited due to back problems and the physio has just discovered what is causing the pain, I also have nerve damage. And I don't stuff myself with food either <shrug>
I go to the doctors who weigh me then tell me the scales are broken as I can't be tha heavy. If I posted a naked photo, you can see where my weight is, I have absolutely solid muscle thighs and huge boobs! But I have a waist, and no massive rolls of fat
Today I had porridge for breakfast (weighed out) and I've had an apple and an individual bag of popcorn (100g, air popped, no butter) and a protein shake before the gym
This is me, and you can see my riding in my sig.
I don't really know what I'm saying except it's not always as simple to lose weight, but riding and weight is... You need an appropriate horse

 

[joeanne]

I am very careful which horses I get on with my weight. It's kind of easier though as I am tall so not likely to get on anything under 16hh anyway! I wouldn't get on a TB/lightweight or anything young at all
I agree it isn't easy, I really really work, and when I say that I mean to the point of vomiting in the gym. I've done an hours circuits tonight including squats with 15kg weights, dead lifts, lunges with 10kg, holding the plank for over a minute.. And that was an hours workout with 15 seconds rest between each exercise. I do that three times a week. I'm limited due to back problems and the physio has just discovered what is causing the pain, I also have nerve damage. And I don't stuff myself with food either <shrug>
I go to the doctors who weigh me then tell me the scales are broken as I can't be tha heavy. If I posted a naked photo, you can see where my weight is, I have absolutely solid muscle thighs and huge boobs! But I have a waist, and no massive rolls of fat
Today I had porridge for breakfast (weighed out) and I've had an apple and an individual bag of popcorn (100g, air popped, no butter) and a protein shake before the gym
This is me, and you can see my riding in my sig.
I don't really know what I'm saying except it's not always as simple to lose weight, but riding and weight is... You need an appropriate horse

You Miss are looking very good!!!
All your hard work has paid dividends!

 

[brighthair]

Ha sadly I am still the same bloody weight!!! Everything is just tighter etc and my measurements are down but I am still (morbidly) obese