HHO's "Bear" project pony...

[Annagain]

Not sure if anyone’s noticed but I’m ummm fairly spontaneous. Sort of dive in head first with everything, usually it works out..

Anyway- took the advert down. It was a shoddy advert tbh and I don’t even have any decent photos under saddle or videos. He’s not seen the inside of the school under saddle for three months and really needs a solid month of work before I can expect to get decent money for him. That month in turn will stop me making a rash decision.

I don’t know how I feel about Bear, it took me forever to adore Boggle in part because I was grieving for another horse and also because Boggle threw so many curveballs my way outside of the usual young horse challenges. I started to really bond with him when we did stuff together, with that came trust and a partnership. It seems shallow to say I can’t love a horse until I’ve competed it or whatnot and that’s probably not what I really mean.. but it’s all those things that sort of knit you together I guess.

So I’ll get Bear going in the school then see how I feel. Realistically the market surely won’t crash within a month! Then I’ll know more re Boggle and things might be that bit better.

Out of the two horses if I want a cuddle it’s Bear I go to for that

I'm glad to read this. I really hope it doesn't come to this but reading this thread yesterday, I was thinking if the worst happens and Bog isn't up to what you want to do with him, would you really be happy not being able to ride either of them?

Also, cuddles are very important .

 

[Meredith]

So sorry about Boggle.
Hoping for the best possible outcome.

Regarding Bear, as others have said, beware of making an impetuous decision. Take your time to evaluate everything.

Someone said they took note of a phrase you used, I will quote another

.......I don’t know how I feel about Bear, it took me forever to adore Boggle .................I started to really bond with him when we did stuff together, with that came trust and a partnership..............................Out of the two horses if I want a cuddle it’s Bear I go to for that

 

[Michen]

I think you need to give yourself time to think this through properly unless you are desperate for the money. It won’t hurt Bear to have a couple of weeks off to give you a break and you will hopefully have more information on the likely prognosis for Boggle. The setback with Boggle has understandably made you think about the implications of him not returning to full fitness. This has coincided with a buoyant market where horses are selling quickly for crazy figures so I can see why you would be tempted to sell Bear now. That said, I genuinely think a horse like him will achieve a good price whenever you decide to sell him. Don’t put unnecessary pressure on yourself unless you need to for financial reasons.

Thank you. No I don’t need the money (well I should- it would pay off my car loan blah blah blah )- but I don’t *need* it and when purchasing a horse I think you have to really write off the capital straight away anyway.

If something changed with work I would, but I’d think that’s as safe as sales can ever be at this point.

If I don’t sell him, he is pretty cheap to keep in summer and current situation as I need very little in the way of services. Winter will be more painful but it’s budgeted for and I won’t begrudge it so long as the enjoyment is there...

 

[Michen]

Isn’t it weird how the mind works though. Boggle has a set back and instead of thinking oh good I’m so glad I have Bear which was what he was bought for, my first thought is to sell him? I suppose it’s all part of being overly emotional!

I *think* it’s because the relentlessness of Boggle rehab was meant to come to an end. Now faced with god knows what, back to the in hand walking etc currently, it all feels very chore like I suppose (horses in general). by now Boggle should be a pleasurable hack rather than back to being a rehab case.

 

[J&S]

Well, I for one, am very relieved you have taken the advert down. If some one did jump on him at the price you were asking, and if you did feel you needed a replacement hunting horse, just how difficult do you think that might be judging from the comments on here about suitable, sane, sound horses at decent prices! Bear may not be Boggle, but he is an extremely good second best!

 

[Tiddlypom]

A month‘s breathing space in which you prep Bear for sale sounds like an excellent plan - you’ll know better at the end as to whether you want to sell him or not. If you decide to keep him, the extra work will have brought him along anyway. Win win!

I don’t doubt that you are emotional atm, life has thrown you rather a lot of curve balls re horses.

 

[Roxylola]

Isn’t it weird how the mind works though. Boggle has a set back and instead of thinking oh good I’m so glad I have Bear which was what he was bought for, my first thought is to sell him? I suppose it’s all part of being overly emotional!

Do you think there is an element of "if it's not with Bog, I dont want to do it at all" Bear was supposed to be a stopgap, albeit a potentially long term one. He was never intended as a replacement. With your latest news you have - naturally- gone to worst case scenario which is that it increases the likelihood Bog may not be able to work at the same level in future.
If money isnt an issue, although I can understand taking advantage of the current market, all else aside, Bog likes him and it seems like you having a companion might be Bogs only chance at anything but single turn out. Now single turn out is all very well on a souped up performance horse, but maybe for a Bog looking for a quieter life having a Bear around might be nice. ?‍

 

[Michen]

Good decision ?

Nothing wrong with giving yourself some breathing space.

I think you are grieving for Bog in a way. Because his injury means he is not likely to be up to the hunting etc.. which you both clearly enjoyed , I feel that you are experiencing a sense of loss and it can take time to come to terms with things. Theres nothing shallow about how you are feeling at all.

Maybe Bear is simply the right horse at the wrong time?

Give yourself time. Take each day as it comes and see where you go from there.

Bog is a very lucky horse and should you decide to sell Bear then I'm sure plenty on here will be happy to take him off your hands!

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. I was totally at peace with no more proper hunting Boggle but I’d fully hoped to do everything else despite the knowledge of what a tricky injury this is. Now it feels like it’s all come crashing down and I’ll never blast down the beach with him again etc.

And it doesn’t matter in some ways because all I want is for him to be alive and happy but it still feels like a loss because we have had so much fun together. Anyway I’m jumping the gun as time is a great healer and I’m being very pessimistic, but I just look at him now and think how very fragile he seems.

 

[Michen]

Do you think there is an element of "if it's not with Bog, I dont want to do it at all" Bear was supposed to be a stopgap, albeit a potentially long term one. He was never intended as a replacement. With your latest news you have - naturally- gone to worst case scenario which is that it increases the likelihood Bog may not be able to work at the same level in future.
If money isnt an issue, although I can understand taking advantage of the current market, all else aside, Bog likes him and it seems like you having a companion might be Bogs only chance at anything but single turn out. Now single turn out is all very well on a souped up performance horse, but maybe for a Bog looking for a quieter life having a Bear around might be nice. ?‍

I think I know deep down that if long term Bog can only hack, he’d be better off retired and going out on a huge acerage in a big herd. And that would mean not being with me every day on a conventional livery yard with turnout which (IMO) is not suitable for a retired horse long term.

Bog just isn’t a happy hack. He THRIVES off a job. If he’s not going to have a job he’s probably better off being properly let down and getting fat and hairy and running with a herd.

And I think that’s what makes me so gutted - selfishly.

 

[Roxylola]

Its rotten isnt it. I've never wanted to own another since I had my lad pts well over 10 years ago. I've always ridden but the sacrifices I'd make to keep a horse have never seemed worth it for anything else. It's a long and sorry tale and not really much in common with your situation but I do understand the state of mind that goes with a broken horse.

 

[ihatework]

I don’t think you are at the retirement stage yet.

But if he were mine he’d be going out in a retirement type herd for a minimum of 12 months and I’d be shutting my eyes

 

[Michen]

Its rotten isnt it. I've never wanted to own another since I had my lad pts well over 10 years ago. I've always ridden but the sacrifices I'd make to keep a horse have never seemed worth it for anything else. It's a long and sorry tale and not really much in common with your situation but I do understand the state of mind that goes with a broken horse.

Oh I’m sorry to read that it’s such a huge emotional and financial commitment isn’t it. I don’t think I’ve ever regretted it, but I don’t think there’s any other sport that has the ability to break your heart quite so much!

 

[Michen]

I don’t think you are at the retirement stage yet.

But if he were mine he’d be going out in a retirement type herd for a minimum of 12 months and I’d be shutting my eyes

My vet is really against this now and even more so in the knowledge that further adhesions may tear. I suppose part of the problem with the injury being so “old”. He wants walking walking walking to get things to heal correctly and functionally.

(ETA- I did ask the question on Tuesday!)

 

[Roxylola]

Oh I’m sorry to read that it’s such a huge emotional and financial commitment isn’t it. I don’t think I’ve ever regretted it, but I don’t think there’s any other sport that has the ability to break your heart quite so much!

I don't regret it as such but it is hard, I put a lot in to any of the horses I ride, i own all of supercob's tack and I don't object to spending if needed but it doesnt pain me that they arent mine. The good times make it all worthwhile at least

 

[Pinkvboots]

So sorry about Bog I think it's totally normal to feel like you do I have felt the same when my favourite horse is out of action I often don't want to bother with the other one, but I eventually snap out of it when I have calmed down and just get on with it, and then find I am really enjoying him and feel lucky to have him to ride.

So you might find you feel totally different in a few weeks because at the moment it's a bit raw and shit.

 

[Upthecreek]

Just to add..... you have invested so much time and care into Boggle’s rehab that you are bound to feel crushed and overwhelmed by the prospect of regressing with it rather than progressing. But give it a few days and you will feel more in control and able to handle everything. I expect you’ve had a hectic few months what with rehabbing Boggle, educating Bear and getting Pepper and I know I am always more emotional and more likely to let negative thoughts run away with me when I’ve got loads going on. Also, you love your horse and want the absolute best outcome for him and your riding partnership. Be kind to yourself.

 

[GG13]

I’m so sorry you’ve had this set back after such careful rehabbing. It’s utterly devastating when you’ve put so much time and effort in and emotionally draining.
I’m in a similar position, albeit I don’t have another horse already but should really be looking. However, as much as I miss competing and schooling my heart’s just not in it.
It’s looking very likely that retirement is going to be the outcome for mine. I’m absolutely gutted and the last thing I want to do right now is look for another.
Waiting at least until Bog’s next check up won’t do any harm and means you can start preparing Bear if selling is still what you decide to do

 

[Michen]

I don’t think you are at the retirement stage yet.

But if he were mine he’d be going out in a retirement type herd for a minimum of 12 months and I’d be shutting my eyes

Actually quite intrigued by this IHW, (slow day in the office, too much thinking) obviously you haven’t had the conversations with my vet but you are aware of his injury, and the three months small paddock rest etc.

What would make you go against the vet rehab plan which has (albeit the adhesion tearing is far from ideal), produced a nicely healed ligament? What would be the benefits in chucking a horse in a field when the whole point is controlled exercise to ensure correct, straight healing? Incorrect healing is what has got him into trouble with adhesions in the first place.

The total rehab time was always 6 months- to ignore the prescribed treatment and small paddock rest seems somewhat drastic.

No intention of doing that as I’ll always be guided by vet..but just genuinely curious. Would seem a bit of a bizarre thing to do at this stage!

 

[Michen]

I’m so sorry you’ve had this set back after such careful rehabbing. It’s utterly devastating when you’ve put so much time and effort in and emotionally draining.
I’m in a similar position, albeit I don’t have another horse already but should really be looking. However, as much as I miss competing and schooling my heart’s just not in it.
It’s looking very likely that retirement is going to be the outcome for mine. I’m absolutely gutted and the last thing I want to do right now is look for another.
Waiting at least until Bog’s next check up won’t do any harm and means you can start preparing Bear if selling is still what you decide to do

Oh no I am sorry have you been rehabbing too? What’s the injury? X

 

[Michen]

Just to add..... you have invested so much time and care into Boggle’s rehab that you are bound to feel crushed and overwhelmed by the prospect of regressing with it rather than progressing. But give it a few days and you will feel more in control and able to handle everything. I expect you’ve had a hectic few months what with rehabbing Boggle, educating Bear and getting Pepper and I know I am always more emotional and more likely to let negative thoughts run away with me when I’ve got loads going on. Also, you love your horse and want the absolute best outcome for him and your riding partnership. Be kind to yourself.

Thank you. xx

 

[ihatework]

Why?
Because the vet doesn’t have to do the rehab! There is what the literature says and then real life.

I have seen time and time again, horses stuck in boxes, owners going down an emotional journey of rehab.

I honestly believe (unless they are completely boogered) in turn them away, keep them moving and give the body time to heal itself. If you have adhesions formed then the box rest and walking wasn’t so great.

I know I’m a bit flippant about it, but the way I look at it is if they are unable to heal over time in the field then they are probably to fragile to be much use in decent work. At least the horse has a nice lifestyle finding out.

So my response is not bizarre. It’s just a more relaxed attitude than yours.

 

[Surbie]

Thanks guys. Have to say I feel really bloody shit today, I feel like I'm never going to get my horse properly back at the end of all of this- I suspect he's just going to be too fragile.

Really sorry you and Bog are going through it. I hope he comes right soon - fingers crossed the 2 weeks does it.

 

[Michen]

Why?
Because the vet doesn’t have to do the rehab! There is what the literature says and then real life.

I have seen time and time again, horses stuck in boxes, owners going down an emotional journey of rehab.

I honestly believe (unless they are completely boogered) in turn them away, keep them moving and give the body time to heal itself. If you have adhesions formed then the box rest and walking wasn’t so great.

I know I’m a bit flippant about it, but the way I look at it is if they are unable to heal over time in the field then they are probably to fragile to be much use in decent work. At least the horse has a nice lifestyle finding out.

So my response is not bizarre. It’s just a more relaxed attitude than yours.

The adhesions were formed beforehand (thinks my vet), because likely he did it in November time and then worked on it for months... so it attempted to heal "chaotically"... hence the need for the controlled structure walking. We saw adhesions (or evidence of- I can't remember exactly) on the original scan back in Feb.


Did you not have a horse who did similar, and followed a similar plan?

The emotional side is rubbish I agree- but if I turned away and the ligament healed incorrectly as is the concern with this injury, I'd never forgive myself for not putting the effort in. I'm not sure that's being less relaxed- just trying to trust the science I guess. And the 3 vets that have consulted on it!

Appreciate the alternative view point though- thank you. If in a few months we are no further it's something I'll seriously consider but for now I'll plough on with original plan.

 

[twiggy2]

...

 

[Michen]

With respect, I wasn't actually asking for opinions on what to do with Boggle (I'm sorry- I don't mean that to sound rude and I do appreciate everyone's support- I don't mean to be, just trying to avoid an influx Boggle advice on this occasion as I am working with my vet on this one and it'll just upset me even more if I think I'm not doing the right thing- I've done so well not reaching for the gin..... ). I was just particularly interested in IHW comment because of previous discussions on a thread etc.

Thank you though. x

 

[twiggy2]

With respect, I wasn't actually asking for opinions on what to do with Boggle (I'm sorry- I don't mean that to sound rude and I do appreciate everyone's support- I don't mean to be, just trying to avoid an influx Boggle advice on this occasion as I am working with my vet on this one and it'll just upset me even more if I think I'm not doing the right thing- I've done so well not reaching for the gin..... ). I was just particularly interested in IHW comment because of previous discussions on a thread etc.

Thank you though. x

Fair enough, comment removed

 

[ycbm]

Why?
Because the vet doesn’t have to do the rehab! There is what the literature says and then real life.

I have seen time and time again, horses stuck in boxes, owners going down an emotional journey of rehab.

I honestly believe (unless they are completely boogered) in turn them away, keep them moving and give the body time to heal itself. If you have adhesions formed then the box rest and walking wasn’t so great.

I know I’m a bit flippant about it, but the way I look at it is if they are unable to heal over time in the field then they are probably to fragile to be much use in decent work. At least the horse has a nice lifestyle finding out.

So my response is not bizarre. It’s just a more relaxed attitude than yours.

With you 100%, 200% on the bit I have bolded.

 

[Michen]

Well, I’m going to trust my vet on this and the reasons why turning away a horse at this stage with this injury is not optimal unless as a last resort (horse not coping with box rest etc).

I suspect that as RCVS VP and running his own practice he’s dealt with more soft tissue injuries than anyone else on the forum... so I shall trust his guidance and be prepared to change tact if he advises.

I am happy to put the effort in, it’s irrelevant to me that the vet is not doing the rehab- if I didn’t want to do it myself I’d send him away for it and pay someone else to, but I want to do it myself.

Also- my horse probably spends more time out of his box than most horses in the UK with limited winter turnout and certainly most horses on the continent.

 

[GG13]

Oh no I am sorry have you been rehabbing too? What’s the injury? X

Yes, I’ve been rehabbing on and off for what seems like forever! Injury is to the pastern. Initially treated with steroids, seemed to work nicely but only lasted around 6 months before I was noticing the same behaviour that made me investigate initially. In the end and after discussing options with vet I decided to opt for a fusion. This was last autumn. Check up last week shows little improvement

 

[Michen]

Yes, I’ve been rehabbing on and off for what seems like forever! Injury is to the pastern. Initially treated with steroids, seemed to work nicely but only lasted around 6 months before I was noticing the same behaviour that made me investigate initially. In the end and after discussing options with vet I decided to opt for a fusion. This was last autumn. Check up last week shows little improvement

Urgh. I’m sorry. That’s so frustrating