HHO's "Bear" project pony...

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Michen said:
A musing.. took both my boys for a hack this morning. Friend on Bear me on Bog. To get out hacking you go up a steep grassy track that runs between two fields. Recently there’s been a big coil of white tape left by the fence and most horses have had a look. Bear first saw it at the weekend and was in front of a big hack group. Grabbed the bit and span, got firm use of stick and leg, span again, got whacked (rightly or wrongly) and then went. Did the same again with friend on Monday but went 3rd time. Today however he massively escalated it, tanking off down the hill, spinning and even lifting his front feet off the ground for good measure. He absolutely would not go and friend getting worried. We swapped horses and i also found it was a real battle- I’m not a weak rider but Bear is immensely physically strong and really sets his neck against you. It was physically impossible to stop him spinning. No amount of stick and leg would drive him forward (and I had a stick in both hands!) Behaviour getting worse and worse and unpleasant on a sloppy steep track and Bear himself getting really upset.

So a change of tact, asking him to go past alongside Boggle and then slightly in front and then building it up (we must have done the loop about ten times) until he was going past it on his own happily enough. This was successful, horse went back to being reasonable and responded well to lots of praise and a softer approach.

Bear hasn’t in 6 months said “NO” like that to something he’s been worried about He will usually always go second time. Made weirder by the fact he had been past it twice. In my mind the horse has to go however worried and that sort of behaviour isn’t acceptable and has to be worked through, but it was escalating so much the change of tact to a softer approach felt like the only thing to do.

Would you have done this or would you have absolutely insisted the horse goes past it as asked- in front of the other horse? Bearing in mind this is a usually very rational, reasonable 4yo but with a cheeky streak and will absolutely try it on if he thinks he can get away with it. Personally I would have insisted he went past on his own as asked in normal circumstances however much of a battle/escalation it took, but the steep slippery hill made it feel verging on dangerous hence trying the alternative approach.

I guess we all have our different ways but interested to hear what yours would have been- and what would you have done if you were on your own without a lead horse? ?
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Hmm getting the shit kicked out of you and whacked for being worried about something when you are a baby that hasnt seen the world. I wonder why his reactions escalated?!
Poor mite.
 
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Michen said:
Ofgs ??. Poor mite indeed, maybe someone should rescue him!
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Yes. Poor mite. He saw something he didnt like. He was kicked and smacked by your own admission. He told you he didnt like it more strongly. So you kicked him and whacked him (your own words) The third time you decided you needed 2 sticks to hit him more effectively. Your horse is 4 years old. I've enjoyed following your journey up till now. This shocked me from you.
If most other people or a new poster put up a post like this they would be jumped on immediately.
Can you not hear how awful this all sounds? Would you beat and whack a dog? A cat? Get another stick to beat it harder and more effectively? In what world does hitting an animal make effective training?
 
Michen

Michen

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[59668] said:
Yes. Poor mite. He saw something he didnt like. He was kicked and smacked by your own admission. He told you he didnt like it more strongly. So you kicked him and whacked him. The third time you decided you needed 2 sticks to hit him more effectively. Your horse is 4 years old. I've enjoyed following your journey up till now. This shocked me from you.
If most other people or a new poster put up a post like this they would be jumped on immediately.
Can you not hear how awful this all sounds? Would you beat and whack a dog? A cat? Get another stick to beat it harder and more effectively? In what world does hitting an animal make effective training?
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I’m sorry but I disagree. The horse was reprimanded for spinning and tanking. IMO at the time it was nappy, evasive behaviour and it needed nipping in the bud. He was then left to have a look, and make the decision to go past the first time.

Now even if my actions were totally wrong and I don’t actually think they entirely were on that occasion but a sequence of events with another rider etc blurred things, then poor mite indeed to have an owner that thought about it, changed tact and then got opinions from other people to see what she could do better this time.

And yes- I believe there’s a time and a place for using a stick (or even two, brilliant for some situations if you need to keep a horse straight but keep both hands on the reins- if you’ve ever tried it you’d know you can only get a soft flick if you are holding the reins too- and much better than kicking IMO!) on half a tonne of animal to correct a potentially dangerous behaviour, get some forward movement, whatever... shoot me now ?.
 
ycbm

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Michen said:
Could Bear look any cuter in the first pic?

Ah well I’m really really proud. This is not how I intended to intro Bear to hounds but I’m on leave this week and couldn’t make it work in time to utilise the holiday with a quieter option whereby it would just involve a few of the hunt and the hounds on private exercise.


This was 25-30 horses with the bloodhounds and started in a stubble field (eek!). Bear hasn’t even been to a show he’s only done an arena hire and boxed for a hack! Anyway, I needed to get him out and figured if I kept to the front it wouldn’t feel like such a big group, so that’s what we did- trundled off on our own to this morning exercise meet and had such a great time. He was snorty and fizzy but very well behaved, I kept a super relaxed seat with him including reins and lots of pats at the beginning to reassure him as he grew in confidence (which took all of 5 minutes). He lifted his bottom once out of frustration when it all got a bit bunched up stopping on a road, was gently but firmly corrected (IMO it’s imperative you teach horses from the go that it’s not acceptable behaviour out hunting- so many accidents from bucking horses and people being too close), listened and was just a total pleasure from start to finish- but also really fun, bouncy and forward.


He will go on quieter exercise on sat, then again twice next week which perhaps seems full on but essential not to get complacent with a youngun and get them finding it as boring as possible as soon as possible. Then I’ll need to find some actual quiet autumn hunting for him to do some standing around- the only downfall of hound exercise is that it doesn’t teach them to stand but I think this can sometimes be more favourable the first few times anyway. And that will be it! The start of making Bear into a hunter for next season anyway.. if he’s not sold..

And let’s face it we all know he bloody won’t be ;)

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I am SO jealous!
.
 
IrishMilo

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What injections did you decide to go for in the end @Michen?

Re. the patting thing - different strokes for different folks and all that but I don't ascribe the whole 'Never pat them when they're scared as it rewards them' approach - my horse is 1000x easier to manage in a situation where he's worried with a pat and a 'good boy, go on' than when I'm stoic. He associates my soft voice and a pat with something nice so if he sees something he doesn't like the look of, he knows a pat means all is fine!

I frankly don't think they're smart enough to think 'OK well she was firm with me going past it but now that I am I get a pat'.
 
Regandal

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Years ago I read a snippet from Sylvia Loch, she recommended riding with your little fingers touching the horse if it was worried about something. It does work, at least it did on my ones.
 
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Regandal said:
Years ago I read a snippet from Sylvia Loch, she recommended riding with your little fingers touching the horse if it was worried about something. It does work, at least it did on my ones.
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Mine is a pretty sensible to hack - gets everything she sees and only really reacts to new things in wrong places (as she sees it). If it worries her she’ll stop - normally a quiet sit as she works it out is all thats needed but if not a wither scratch helps. I don’t see it as reinforcing fear but I do see it depends on the horse.
 
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As Charlie and I are getting used to each other I'm learning all over again about reassuring a horse (Archie never needed it!) Three things that work for him - all together ideally - are increasing the leg pressure (more of a hug than kicking him) just to say, yes I do want you do go past that and yes I'm happy about it, talking to him - the daft creature really seems to like my voice, and lots of praise when he's done it in the form of scratches, pats and my voice. He loves to be told he's a good boy, you can literally feel him swell with pride!
 
Michen

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IrishMilo said:
What injections did you decide to go for in the end @Michen?

Re. the patting thing - different strokes for different folks and all that but I don't ascribe the whole 'Never pat them when they're scared as it rewards them' approach - my horse is 1000x easier to manage in a situation where he's worried with a pat and a 'good boy, go on' than when I'm stoic. He associates my soft voice and a pat with something nice so if he sees something he doesn't like the look of, he knows a pat means all is fine!

I frankly don't think they're smart enough to think 'OK well she was firm with me going past it but now that I am I get a pat'.
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Just steroids on their own. Reassess in 2 weeks and see where we are.
 
Michen

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Good boy Bear.. one more hound exercise with good behaviour and we can call that a success and move on to quiet autumn hunting! This horse is being so fun, buzzy and forward and not too keen on standing early on (gets a little bouncy in front!) but he had so much to deal with today with a very full on hound exercise, canter, open spaces and standing half way whilst we all had a very strong drink! He also unloaded at my friends yard, hung around quietly for a chat and reloaded and went home all quietly and easily. Such a sensible chap and he really does have a new air of confidence about him now.

I was unsure which way it would go with Bear, he really was not easy early on and I never really posted about it thoroughly, but I think he’s figured out the key to a long term home is hunting ;)

It’s also nice to ride a horse which actually tires slightly, unlike Boggle who would go until he dropped.

A few videos!

 
Michen

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Ahhh Bear you are just so cool. There are so many “tests” this horse is just breezing through. Peeling off from the meet alone, stay walking on a long rein whilst the meet gallops off around a corner, let your mate reverse off the trailer whilst we drop him off.

And the best bit- have a cheek piece snap and be hunted with the bit only attached on one side. We later manage to fashion one with a flash but frankly it couldn’t have mattered less if we had a solution or not.

What an earth am I going to do long term with two horses, because I sure as hell don’t think I can ever sell this one. He’s not “special” and one of a kind like Bog but he’s just so biddable and easy (now) whilst still being fun and cheeky.

Hunting is turning him into something special in his own right though ?


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ycbm

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Michen said:
Ahhh Bear you are just so cool. There are so many “tests” this horse is just breezing through. Peeling off from the meet alone, stay walking on a long rein whilst the meet gallops off around a corner, let your mate reverse off the trailer whilst we drop him off.

And the best bit- have a cheek piece snap and be hunted with the bit only attached on one side. We later manage to fashion one with a flash but frankly it couldn’t have mattered less if we had a solution or not.

What an earth am I going to do long term with two horses, because I sure as hell don’t think I can ever sell this one. He’s not “special” and one of a kind like Bog but he’s just so biddable and easy (now) whilst still being fun and cheeky.

Hunting is turning him into something special in his own right though ?


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He's now worth £8k, does that change your mind ? ?
 
Michen

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Nope 8k not enough to consider selling!! I guess I’ll just have to see how it goes, I’ve got a brilliant sharer who rides them both so it should be doable long term. Worst case Bear gets full loaned out at some point.

He may still hit the Kevin stage yet anyway and go to the highest bidder;)

FGS, the whole point was to buy a horse that I didn’t want to keep as a stop gap and to sell. Working out well isn’t it ?
 
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