Michen
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure I remember quite a similar thread about Bog's feet back in the day
oooh no they were never long and contracted though. They were too upright and broken forward ??? he still wins!
HHO's "Bear" project pony...
- Thread starter Michen
- Start date
oooh no they were never long and contracted though. They were too upright and broken forward ??? he still wins!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
and with a ruddy great hole in them.
Michen
Well-Known Member
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I've taken a closer look at your photos Michen and the arrowed parts are very suggestive of HWSD, are you sure he hasn't the genes for it? Sorry if I'm going over old ground.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Lol, honestly I don’t see anything other than a chipped hoof from poor quality.
No, he doesn’t have it or the genes for it.
No, he doesn’t have it or the genes for it.
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
Haha, Bog always wins, he is fabulous.
But in terms of young horse with less than ideal diet in their past, on-off low level foot-related lamenesses, hoof shape alternating between ok and worrying at the same time as their physique is changing with them maturing and developing.....
The presentation of hoof pathologies might have been different but a lot of the other contextual details are very similar (from my memory at least)
Fwiw my Connie had very boxy feet with contracted heels when I bought her at 2 1/2. 9 months later the heels were better (though still quite thrushy despite lots of treatment), but the toe had got long and heels underrun (not drastically but about the same as the recent pics of Bear's feet), which I battled for quite a while. Now her feet are pretty much perfect, but that has only been the case for the last 12-18 months. She's a year older than Bear.
It's the main reason I left her a long time to ride away properly, and why I did so much long reining with her when I don't usually. But tbh being properly in work (gently built up obviously) has done her feet the world of good.
Michen
Well-Known Member
No you are totally right! Oh the panic. And I remember you saying you thought they grow the feet they need at the time. Which I think was very relevant for Bog when he became broken forward as a year later even when barefoot he didn't do it again. Not saying Bear needs his feet to be like this of course, but maybe all he can manage currently
I have to say even after 5 days of being back home he is already looking better on the concrete and firm dirt track bit of the walk down to the field, maybe I'm imagining it but...
I have to hope now that a month/ six weeks of hacking will start to get some decent growth going! I just need to get on top of this thrush. Which, weirdly he didn't have anywhere near to this extent when he left for his summer rest.
That is really interesting about Pebbles and quite comforting
Do you self trim or did you take anything off yourself during that time?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
It's good that he doesn't have the genes for it. It's the left behind woolly dead laminae that are suggestive of it. I hope you manage to get him sorted, you know how much I've always liked him.
.
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
These days she does a lot of road work so I just tidy round them with a rasp two or three times a week after she's been worked.
Originally she was self-trimming/didn't grow much hoof. And then during the long toe phase I trimmed small amounts quite regularly as I was trying to improve it, and I also had hoof and front leg X rays mixed in there and a couple of specialist trims off the back of that, and then I let them be for quite a while (can't exactly remember why). Then I picked up small amounts of regular rasping again when I noticed the hoof shape seemed to be improving but she was getting quite a lot of chipping.
Originally she was self-trimming/didn't grow much hoof. And then during the long toe phase I trimmed small amounts quite regularly as I was trying to improve it, and I also had hoof and front leg X rays mixed in there and a couple of specialist trims off the back of that, and then I let them be for quite a while (can't exactly remember why). Then I picked up small amounts of regular rasping again when I noticed the hoof shape seemed to be improving but she was getting quite a lot of chipping.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Cool thanks! I have x rays too albiet from spring, I think I'll get some slides done in the next couple of months again to see how things are progressing.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I do, not just the front per the arrows but the periople, the lack of shine to the foot and that something simply looks wrong. The hoof quality looks wrong. I see separation issues not just a chipped hoof. That is why my first question was about testing. This jumped out at me.
I appreciate this will not be a response you will like but if he was my horse I would sent a test into animal genetics and I would send suitable pics to a vet/farrier experienced in this just to check it out.
Michen
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the help but the horse does not have HWSD. I don’t need to go into all the (many ways) I know that ?.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
The "lack of shine" really?
Ah the joys of diagnostics over the internet. It comes from a good place, usually, but in my experience people "over diagnosed" or maybe look for things too much, but it's also nice to get different perspectives, a mixed bag, really.
I mean, something is going on, but I don't know what it is.
Ah the joys of diagnostics over the internet. It comes from a good place, usually, but in my experience people "over diagnosed" or maybe look for things too much, but it's also nice to get different perspectives, a mixed bag, really.
I mean, something is going on, but I don't know what it is.
Michen
Well-Known Member
I'm not really sure that anything is going on tbh other than what I already know, which is that that horse has had a year of liver issues and long periods of antibiotics which now seem to be sorted and there are some new angles coming in on the feet. Am I the only one seeing those- or thinking that they are a good sign..!?
He's got normal bloods, he's tested negative for cushings twice now, he looks healthy from the outside and there is an explanation behind the rubbish feet. So I think all I can do now is crack on, get them moving and see what happens over the next few months.
DabDabs experience of similar feet which changed as the pony developed is quite a good example too I guess.
Frankly even if he did have HWSD (he doesn't), I wouldn't be changing what my plan already is anyway so it would be irrelevant
He's got normal bloods, he's tested negative for cushings twice now, he looks healthy from the outside and there is an explanation behind the rubbish feet. So I think all I can do now is crack on, get them moving and see what happens over the next few months.
DabDabs experience of similar feet which changed as the pony developed is quite a good example too I guess.
Frankly even if he did have HWSD (he doesn't
), I wouldn't be changing what my plan already is anyway so it would be irrelevant CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
I agree, Michen. Best of luck and would be interesting to have updates too.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Of course
paddy555
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely correct. I really do have to apologise . Foot is excellent. I mustn't have had my glasses on when I commented about the lack of shine and the periople which of course is most excellent. As for the coconut matting edges well I was just jealous my hooves didn't have these. As far as the separation goes then again a glasses problem. As far as even thinking that something I was not sure of was going on and suggesting asking an expert just to make sure then what on earth was I thinking of.
I have duly awarded myself 100 lines.
Michen, I do see the new growth and the new angle. Of course I hope this will continue to ground level and that antibiotics etc will have been your problem.
Michen
Well-Known Member
This is unnecessary. Just remember this is my horse that's being discussed and sarcastic comments about the state of his feet in a post like this just makes it even more upsetting for me as the owner whose trying her very best to get him sorted.
And I believe CC was more referencing the fact that I've said several times he cannot have HWSD, and probably knows that it's highly likely I'd have ticked the box of getting expert opinions anyway.
But thank you for the thrush info which I will definitely take on board and give a go as I hadn't put as much effort into really cleaning it out like that as you described so that's likely what I'm missing.
TPO
🤠🏴
Random thought re the raised liver enzymes.
Post about wrgot are everywhere because, well, ergot is everywhere. Raised liver enzymes are one of the symptoms of having ingested ergot fungus.
Had he had any access to long grass? Although ergot awareness is everywhere right now it is an annual occurrence so perhaps he had access to log grass around field edges last year?
Bit of a reach just with the ergot stuff being everywhere
Post about wrgot are everywhere because, well, ergot is everywhere. Raised liver enzymes are one of the symptoms of having ingested ergot fungus.
Had he had any access to long grass? Although ergot awareness is everywhere right now it is an annual occurrence so perhaps he had access to log grass around field edges last year?
Bit of a reach just with the ergot stuff being everywhere
Boulty
Well-Known Member
Just to confuse you even more re thrush treatments I’ve had decent success with short term (about 5-7 days) of leovet frog medic. It’s a bit harsh to use on a regular basis/ as a preventative but it’s in a pressurised can & fantastic for blasting into crevices if you’re like me & too lazy to floss with cotton wool (Apparently the strands off a rope mop are great for flossing, ditto large baby wipes) / are useless at using hoof stuff. I also use red horse artimud / field paste / sole cleanse but have used the other stuff twice when things have gotten a bit manky (just after I got him & last month when he’d been going through a phase of pooing right by the door & then standing in it)
Also bless your vet ? (give the orange one a wave for me when you get to that page ?)
Also bless your vet ? (give the orange one a wave for me when you get to that page ?)
Michen
Well-Known Member
Yep he has around the edges! But I had Bog tested too and he was fine, and the enzymes seemed to yo-yo up and down?
But it’s a good thing to think about.. hmm! I guess given his bloods are normal now I’ll try and forget about any liver type issues for now until he gets tested again in 3 months ?
Labaire
...
Yet one more thrush treatment - 5min povidine iodine scrub followed by tetracycline spray (from vet), every 2/3 days for a week then weekly.
Boulty
Well-Known Member
Oh & another random thought but the orange one's feet went back to looking especially awful when he was having issues with raised liver enzymes (cause unknown but as several others at yard also had it suspect either something infectious or something in the hay or water... In hindsight I do wonder about ergot as think the winter field did used to go to seed before being used, as did the hay due to part of it coming from a meadow with wildflowers that ideally needed to be allowed to seed before a hay cut was taken but was a few years ago so no idea how likely it would have been).
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Lol you're so lovely.
But really, I asked "lack of shine" really? Because I've seen healthy hooves that aren't particularly shiny. I don't use that as a criteria for the most part and the camera can be a bit deceiving with lighting in relation to shine. That's all. But if you think shine is very important, would've been interested to hear your reasoning and experience.
The next comment about over the internet diagnostics was in general. I still stand by it, because it can be true.
If you felt the need to get rude and offended, then that's on you ?
no one is saying the hoof is perfect or without faults. Michen is very dedicated (moreso than many on here) to finding the cause and sorting it out. I do not believe she is ignoring anything or saying it's perfect. I have much respect for how she cares for her horses. I just think people start to get a bit overly critical sometimes and just look for things. In general. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time ? But if you want to be rude/quite frankly odd about it, carry on.I also think if the hooves were caused by the liver issue and whatnot, if you see the ends breaking/being weak, it could just be the crappy hoof/poor quality growing out from when the liver issue was occurring. If better quality is growing in, then it's not so concerning (because what can you do, really? Aside from treating the thrush and whatnot), as long as it is growing.
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tristar
Well-Known Member
I'm not really sure that anything is going on tbh other than what I already know, which is that that horse has had a year of liver issues and long periods of antibiotics which now seem to be sorted and there are some new angles coming in on the feet. Am I the only one seeing those- or thinking that they are a good sign..!?
He's got normal bloods, he's tested negative for cushings twice now, he looks healthy from the outside and there is an explanation behind the rubbish feet. So I think all I can do now is crack on, get them moving and see what happens over the next few months.
DabDabs experience of similar feet which changed as the pony developed is quite a good example too I guess.
Frankly even if he did have HWSD (he doesn't
i can clearly see the demarcation of old and new angle, i would take a rasp to the toes and start to follow the new line of growth gradually, the hooves do not appear to have a wall separation problem visually, possibly they are rough round the edges as they are pushing forwards, flaring ?
time for you to pick up a rasp M and start to give a gentle manicure and help to ease the new angles in without distortion, we all have to start somewhere! if you have not tried as yet, have no fear lots on here will guide you, you could be doing him and yourself a big step in the right direction
connies as i am told by an authority on the breed
, will be putting down bone for a longish time and he is so young so his feet will also change accordingly as he develops
and you might feel a bit more in control of events if can shape them the feet a bit
sorry about the typing layout, dog knocked the computer
Michen
Well-Known Member
Tristar can i get a radius rasp or is that cheating ? I think that’s all I can handle!
I do love hacking this horse he’s such W a pleasure. Although he does now have emergency draw reins on after his acceleration across the stubble ? Still he doesn’t feel remotely unfit. Really striding out in his boots and powering up hills. And the CS looks better. Really pleased.
We will get there!
I do love hacking this horse he’s such W a pleasure. Although he does now have emergency draw reins on after his acceleration across the stubble ? Still he doesn’t feel remotely unfit. Really striding out in his boots and powering up hills. And the CS looks better. Really pleased.
We will get there!
HelenBack
Well-Known Member
As a nervous first time rasper who was frightened of overdoing it I got one of these:
https://www.urbanhorse.com/for_your...products/heller_excel_original_blue_hoof_rasp
I just use the blunter side of it and find it very easy to use and I really couldn't take too much off this way!
Or your farrier might give you an old rasp if you ask him. I think you're as well getting a proper one if you're going to do it regularly though. I've never used one of the little radius ones but I would imagine they're probably small and fiddly and annoying!
https://www.urbanhorse.com/for_your...products/heller_excel_original_blue_hoof_rasp
I just use the blunter side of it and find it very easy to use and I really couldn't take too much off this way!
Or your farrier might give you an old rasp if you ask him. I think you're as well getting a proper one if you're going to do it regularly though. I've never used one of the little radius ones but I would imagine they're probably small and fiddly and annoying!
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
You'll knacker yourself much more with a Radius rasp if you try to do any more than a light bevelling off. I've been there, done that, before I gave in and got a proper rasp.
I've got both the Radius Pro-2 and 1. They are handy for finishing off, but that's it.
I've got both the Radius Pro-2 and 1. They are handy for finishing off, but that's it.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I do feet twice a week, means you only have to take a smidge off. Means I dare use a long rasp and also it isn't as tough on your back! I think it is also kinder to the horse's feet and joints, as there are no sudden changes.
Michen
Well-Known Member
I don't intend to "trim" as such, just round off the edges so hoping a radius rasp type thing will be good for that?
I wouldn't trust myself trimming!
I do have a rasp somewhere I've just never used it eeeeek
I wouldn't trust myself trimming!
I do have a rasp somewhere I've just never used it eeeeek