Horse and rider with extreme issues...

[lolabelle36]

I was on one of the appaloosa sites at the time, but I saw this list recently and thought it helpful. I think people tend to assume PSSM = tying up whereas actually 'exercise intolerance' of one form or another is more typical.

http://www.pssm.eu/en/symptoms-of-pssm.html

Mine never tied up, hence it was overlooked. Although not sure I'd have ever come up with PSSM on my own. Type 2 isnt treated with vitamin e, so you are better off doing the test for type 1 and knowing definitively. From what I see other people saying Type 2 is incredibly hard to manage and most seem to end up retired and the test isnt recognised by vets yet either.

 

[palo1]

Whereabouts are you? For a different vet experience Tom Beech is worth a try and if she can get the horse to the clinic he does with Dan Wain then she'd have 2 experienced but different to the norm viewpoints.

My friend's mare had Lyme disease (worth considering?) and it took and long, long time to diagnose and then treat. During that time the mare was stiff, nappy, uncooperative and at times downright dangerous. Even when she was 'well' the behaviours were so ingrained that she continued to be incredibly difficult. She went on full training livery with Dan for a while and he turned her around - slowly, gently persuading her that her body could work again. I watched one session and it was obvious this tricky mare really liked him and was going to try whatever he wanted her to do.

Lyme has been checked for and discounted but it was definately worth investigating as his vet felt that having been bred in Ireland, Lymes disease was a possibility.

 

[quizzie]

Is this the 100% RRR version? There's a US website selling it on ebay but I don't know whether to trust it!

Nano E is the water miscellised version made by Kentucky, sold here mostly via Saracen, it is a milky coloured liquid.

The main difference is that powdered versions of natural vitamin E are esterified to the acetate form...and the horse needs to remove the acetate to transport and utilise the vitamin E, and some horses seem to have problems with this step.

Hence why the bio-availability of Nano E is so much greater......Some anecdotal veterinary evidence from one of the major equine hospitals ( never published I think) led a couple of top level equine vets to recommend " don't mess around....if you want to see if Vit E is an issue and you want to see if you can make a difference in a particular case....use Nano E "

 

[paddy555]

The horse has been tested negative for PSSM and not responded to a Vit E trial though to my mind that wasn't taken seriously by the vet and the owner probably didn't actually give a high enough dose to clarify that.

Don't forget that PSSM2 is far from just being a high dose E trial. For a problem horse who could well be suffering very badly as a result of PSSM everything else has to be in place as well. Most important of those is warmth. Behaviour ranges from total unpredictability to can barely move (not won't move) all within a very short time frame. Also biting. Did you say it bit someone.
If your friend is open to testing something then to accurately have any guess at all at PSSM2 (you say it was tested for PSSM1) the horse would need over rugging, an exercise sheet when ridden, constant movement ie shelter and field/track not being stabled over night. High dose E. I used equimins and I got results in 36 hours. Horse was just a little bit nicer, within a week it was obvious something had changed a lot. Daily exercise. That is most important. When I was at that stage which was basically rock bottom I exercised on long reins and built up from 10 minutes a day to an hour a day. If the horse won't move this will be the quickest way to see if there is any progress. If the horse starts moving around happily on long reins after some build up of work it will suggest you are on the right track.


Each of those is vital in having any idea if you are looking at PSSM. If you can be pretty sure that is the problem then for some horses some of those requirements can be dropped or reduced but of course having stabilised the horse you then have to experiment to find out which ones.

 

[ycbm]

There seem to be a lot of hard and fast rules being laid down about PSSM lately.

My own understanding is that this is a spectrum disease ranging from asymptomatic to total write off.

My own did not need heavy rugging, grass restricted or daily exercise and had a very strong response to both vitamin E (agreed to move when ridden) and then to alcar (muscles visibly relaxed).

I think they need treating as individuals and experimenting what works for each case.

I am not an expert, but I am worried about categorical statements of how they must be managed, for a spectrum disease.
.

 

[paddy555]

There seem to be a lot of hard and fast rules being laid down about PSSM lately.

My own understanding is that this is a spectrum disease ranging from asymptomatic to total write off.

My own did not need heavy rugging, grass restricted or daily exercise and had a very strong response to both vitamin E (agreed to move when ridden) and then to alcar (muscles visibly relaxed).

I think they need treating as individuals and experimenting what works for each case.

I am not an expert, but I am worried about categorical statements of how they must be managed, for a spectrum disease.
.

I can only speak about what works and yes it does range up to total write off which, in all honesty, this horse sounds to be very close to ie at the far end of the spectrum. Unless someone very forceful really makes it move whilst it could be in considerable pain.
Yours only needed vit E and alcar, Are you talking about PSSM or simply vit E deficiency which appeared to be the problem with Ludo.

Mine needed the whole works but I have little doubt he was bad when I started down this road and is one of the more affected ones. If this is the problem then this horse sounds pretty bad. I am afraid you come across to me that PSSM2 is pretty simple, chuck some vit E and alcar at it, it worked for yours and that is it. Sadly it isn't even half the story.


The point I was making was that if you just test the horse with vit E it may not give you much info.
Of course they need treating as individuals and you will see that I referred to this in my final para. However you have to have some idea what disease you are dealing with first.

If you were just to test this horse with vit e and none of the other management suggestions then you may make little progress, totally miss PSSM and waste your time. The lady in this case doesn't sound as if she is going to have much time to revisit trials that she may well not believe in.

In an attempt to be helpful I tried to supply details of everything that could be done (all at once) to try and quickly establish if PSSM was a road that the lady could be looking at or at least to eliminate it.

I am afraid that you just seem to be nit picking for the sake of it.


ETA to Palo. This horse does sound bad. If I was in this position I think I would have a muscle biopsy done. That is the definitive test for PSSM2. It could provide the info. the owner needs in order to move forward. PSSM is a possibility but then again so many other things are including the riding. Eliminating one could help.

 

[quizzie]

I can only speak about what works and yes it does range up to total write off which, in all honesty, this horse sounds to be very close to ie at the far end of the spectrum. Unless someone very forceful really makes it move whilst it could be in considerable pain.
Yours only needed vit E and alcar, Are you talking about PSSM or simply vit E deficiency which appeared to be the problem with Ludo.

Mine needed the whole works but I have little doubt he was bad when I started down this road and is one of the more affected ones. If this is the problem then this horse sounds pretty bad. I am afraid you come across to me that PSSM2 is pretty simple, chuck some vit E and alcar at it, it worked for yours and that is it. Sadly it isn't even half the story.


The point I was making was that if you just test the horse with vit E it may not give you much info.
Of course they need treating as individuals and you will see that I referred to this in my final para. However you have to have some idea what disease you are dealing with first.

If you were just to test this horse with vit e and none of the other management suggestions then you may make little progress, totally miss PSSM and waste your time. The lady in this case doesn't sound as if she is going to have much time to revisit trials that she may well not believe in.

In an attempt to be helpful I tried to supply details of everything that could be done (all at once) to try and quickly establish if PSSM was a road that the lady could be looking at or at least to eliminate it.

I am afraid that you just seem to be nit picking for the sake of it.


ETA to Palo. This horse does sound bad. If I was in this position I think I would have a muscle biopsy done. That is the definitive test for PSSM2. It could provide the info. the owner needs in order to move forward. PSSM is a possibility but then again so many other things are including the riding. Eliminating one could help.

Unfortunately it’s not quite that simple....although the muscle biopsy test is fairly good, it is not definitive, there are plenty of false negatives, and some false positives, plus handling and staining issues that can create anomalous results.

Also, PPSM2 is a bit of a catch all diagnosis and covers many different muscle myopathies with different causes and different managements, however many of them do benefit from high Vit e supplementation, albeit for different reasons!

Some of the PSSM2 variations are now being split out into different diagnoses including myofibrillar myositis and recurrent tying up amongst others.

 

[paddy555]

Unfortunately it’s not quite that simple... .

4 years, many of thousands of pounds and several vets later I did work that one out

 

[VRIN]

It may have been asked already but has she tried contacting previous owners? Presumably if a 5 figure sum was paid for a 9 year old then there would have been some positive past history to support this value?

 

[ycbm]

It may have been asked already but has she tried contacting previous owners? Presumably if a 5 figure sum was paid for a 9 year old then there would have been some positive past history to support this value?

In the insanely hot market created by Covid lockdown spare time and cash, if the horse is exceptionally good looking, as it is said to be, then unfortunately not.
.

 

[Gingerwitch]

It can either be for sections or for whole horse.
From when I had one done for Reeco it was about £2k for a section or £2.8k for whole horse.

Thanks interesting to know. X

 

[palo1]

In the insanely hot market created by Covid lockdown spare time and cash, if the horse is exceptionally good looking, as it is said to be, then unfortunately not.
.

To answer a few of the questions (to the best of my knowledge and without exposing too much of the owner's info!) As the horse has a history of ulcers, that is the first port of call and what the equine vet is focussing on atm. If the horse has recurrent ulcers obviously a cause will need further investigation. The vet has suggested looking at ulcers first, then muscle related issues and after that to consider genuine behavioural problems. I think it is very unlikely that the owner would head down a possibly necessary PSSM rabbit hole as she is much more likely to ask for veterinary referral which may or may not provide the right assessment or information about muscle related issues. Whilst the horse does have serious issues undoubtedly he does not appear to have problems that are particularly easily attributable to PSSM or it's relatives. I know that this is not necessarily indicative but it is quite hard for folk who haven't had complex issues to deal with previously to head down a very non-specific route I think. This owner has an excellent relationship with her vet, trusts her implicitly and has had successful resolution of horse related issues previously so it would be very difficult and not 'necessary' for her at this point to go off piste (though I might - in part because I wouldn't have the money for the scope of veterinary investigation that this owner does have!!). So the veterinary stuff is staying on piste for now; muscle issues will be explored but through vet means in all likelihood which may include testing and biopsy. I know that wouldn't necessarily cover the gamut of possibilities but that is the plan. The vet is excellent and the owner has never felt the need to question or contradict a plan of action so it unlikely that this would now be a part of the discussion!

As for the history and purchase; all of the horse's history is clear and he was identified as entirely suitable for purchase at a 5 stage vetting with a vet of the owner's choice. This was a year before Covid so no issues related to Covid inflated prices or difficulties viewing or buying!! She had, unfortunately, travelled to view only once and ridden the horse once. She is experienced, sensible and totally realistic about horses. She was entirely happy with him at that point although several friends had implored her to examine some minor 'holes' /ambiguities in his advert which stressed how very quiet he was and to ride in slightly more challenging circumstances. On viewing the horse was hacked out quietly in company with no problems at all. To ride alone was not the owner's choice at this point and the horse was jumped over small obstacles for her. All was fine though the horse was, typically extremely quiet; this was considered a good thing. The horse had no advisories as it were, other than he was reluctant to lunge (at that point and due to having no clue why a well bred, well produced horse couldn't or wouldn't lunge for a vetting I advised that she should investigate or walk away) . Reason for sale was that he would not go to the top in his particular sphere as a show hunter, nor would he be particularly talented as an eventer. All of that information was pretty much verifiable. As it happens the horse's local vet records were entirely clean too with only routine jabs etc identified.

The ONLY real concern at purchase was the number of homes the horse had been through since arriving in England as a 3y/o. None for longer than a year BUT at his price and breeding it was deemed by the examining vet that this was likely due to his lack of talent. I think, in view of several things, his purchase price was probably entirely 'realistic' (if not for me!!). I don't think that anyone has particularly and deliberately hoodwinked this owner though the horse has most likely proved very difficult for some time; it is just that in his particular life, people have been able to pass him on rather than investigate. This owner wants to do right by him though that won't necessarily mean that it is a happy or successful outcome for her.

It is really sad but I am very glad that vet investigations and other options are now being explored; that is at least a way forward. I am really grateful to HHO forumers for providing some really helpful and interesting ideas. They have been tactfully passed forward.

 

[RHM]

Come to this late but thought I would add my two pennies worth as you sound as though you are describing my pony. I could have written this word for word. In his case he had suspensory issues. Now these are resolved he is happy to do certain activities, eg hack out a couple times a week and he absolutely loves ground work. But if I attempted to school him he would immediately revert back to this behaviour. I pay £150 per ultrasound when the vets check my lads legs now. Which would be a fairly cheap and quick thing to rule out before passing him on. Just a thought! X

 

[abb123]

I had one just like this. Tried and tested in every way by vets and all clear. Was a complete mystery as to why she was behaving like that. One day she got colic and when they opened her up they could see that her intestines had been going in and out of a small pocket causing an intermittent blockage and inflamed and painful intestines in that area. She gradually got much better after she had recovered from surgery but she was always a bit edgy which we think was due to remembered pain.

 

[palo1]

I had one just like this. Tried and tested in every way by vets and all clear. Was a complete mystery as to why she was behaving like that. One day she got colic and when they opened her up they could see that her intestines had been going in and out of a small pocket causing an intermittent blockage and inflamed and painful intestines in that area. She gradually got much better after she had recovered from surgery but she was always a bit edgy which we think was due to remembered pain.

How awful for her! Glad to hear you found the reason for her problems; I really hope my friend can also find a reason for her horse's issues. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[palo1]

Come to this late but thought I would add my two pennies worth as you sound as though you are describing my pony. I could have written this word for word. In his case he had suspensory issues. Now these are resolved he is happy to do certain activities, eg hack out a couple times a week and he absolutely loves ground work. But if I attempted to school him he would immediately revert back to this behaviour. I pay £150 per ultrasound when the vets check my lads legs now. Which would be a fairly cheap and quick thing to rule out before passing him on. Just a thought! X

Yes, I definately think it would be worth scanning his legs; I imagine that it will be on the long list of potential investigations Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[fredflop]

What exactly has the horse had done?

 

[palo1]

What exactly has the horse had done?

The horse had a 5 stage vetting ( no bloods or x-rays) pre-purchase to assess suitability to hunt and do local WH classes, hacking, fun rides etc. Once horse began showing issues he had hocks and back scanned (nothing found); I am not sure why these 2 areas were prioritised over other things but perhaps he was sore in some way when examined? He has also had a subsequent basic lameness work-up (no lameness, soreness etc found so no nerve blocks involved). The horse doesn't really move well though he 'can' move spectacularly well and generally looks incredibly sound when he is happy enough to move. It is very hard work to get his hind end engaged when ridden. He has had teeth, saddle, bridle and bit checked by vet and dentist as well as saddle fitter. He then went on to have physio assessment after vet referral due to these initial issues and lack of finding a cause for them. Physio identified that scoping for ulcers would be helpful. He was scoped, ulcers found, treated. Re-scoped as clear. Horse has had a new saddle fitted, appropriate feed and workload identified, has attended regular training to ensure that his way of going is improving (until lockdown), had been hunted quietly by his owner (4 hours max on quiet days) and has been hunted by a lightweight gentleman for 2 half days. As the season has been very much curtailed this is very little work. He is 16'3 and is hacked out several days a week - always in company!! He has done very little canter work due to safety concerns though was cantering happily out hunting.

First lot of veterinary investigations started around 6 months after purchase; the owner had issues with the horse from the off but put that down to him needing to settle and start work. He appeared incredibly shut down and was not 'engaged' with handling or riding. He was 'a bit bitey' too....!!

Since treatment for ulcers he has done no jumping whilst out hunting. He has done 1 intro dressage test and following ulcer treatment appeared to be improving in terms of his psychological approach to training. Now, several months later he is worse than ever I suspect he has ulcers again and the trouble will be finding the underlying cause of those. That may be suspensories, PSSM or something else. His feet are generally excellent and he seems well shod though he can be heavy on the forehand and stumbly/careless. He has not had a bute trial, investigation for hind gut issues, scanning for suspensories or SI issues. Yet!!

The owner will leave no stone unturned to get him sorted and has the finances to do a full investigation but I do think, after all of his problems that this horse will need a different set up. His owner wants to do things that clearly don't interest the horse at all. He is probably 'best' when doing arena based stuff - that is what his owner likes the very least in the world!! It is also something that was advertised as not being his 'thing' when initially sold...

 

[ycbm]

Over 5 figures for a horse advertised as not liking arena work? Blimey. The more you write about this horse the more I feel nobody should be riding him until his issue, because it's obvious that there's at least one, is found. Are "safety reasons" for not cantering in an arena that he bucks or rears?

If the owner has the money then this scenario is crying out for a whole body scintigraph. Does she have the right vet? I'm surprised this hasn't already been suggested.

 

[palo1]

Over 5 figures for a horse advertised as not liking arena work? Blimey. The more you write about this horse the more I feel nobody should be riding him until his issue, because it's obvious that there's at least one, is found. Are "safety reasons" for not cantering in an arena that he bucks or rears?

If the owner has the money then this scenario is crying out for a whole body scintigraph. Does she have the right vet? I'm surprised this hasn't already been suggested.

@ycbm - I couldn't agree more!! I felt and expressed that feeling at the original trial and vetting that at the very least the horse was seriously over-priced; wouldn't/couldn't lunge and wasn't particularly good in an arena? Just why though? The thing is that neither of these things bothered the owner one bit, in spite of the implication - to me at least, of some strange issues. Who has a 5 figure horse that won't/can't lunge??? After this the first thing I did in fact was teach my young mare to lunge (I don't usually actually and don't have an arena at home but realised how incredibly 'dodgy' it can seem if a horse can't or won't do this and I also was panicked enough to make sure that she had the physical and mental capacity to cope with that. She did thankfully!!). She was happy to learn in a couple of afternoons...

I do think, potentially that the horse's other credentials outweighed some very 'obvious' (to me at least) 'holes'. However, as the owner has no interest in arena based work and doesn't particularly value lunging (and nor do I actually but that's different) they seemed immaterial to her. He was sold as a quiet ladies hunter. He is certainly quiet and has hunted reasonably successfully so....The owner has a good vet and good referral to a top equine hospital though to be honest, I would have gone off piste by now and would be consulting a medium!!

ETA - in fairness to the horse and owner who I love dearly, a good looking, quiet ladies hunter with excellent breeding of that age and stamp is usually a fair price and he did come with a hunting reference (albeit quite limited). The market in smart hunters has always been quite strong I think. He would certainly, potentially make a very smart county level hunter if he was ok!! For some that would be enough to justify his price.

 

[be positive]

Over 5 figures for a horse advertised as not liking arena work? Blimey. The more you write about this horse the more I feel nobody should be riding him until his issue, because it's obvious that there's at least one, is found. Are "safety reasons" for not cantering in an arena that he bucks or rears?

If the owner has the money then this scenario is crying out for a whole body scintigraph. Does she have the right vet? I'm surprised this hasn't already been suggested.

Like ycbm I am amazed this horse was bought/ sold with what sounds like a very dodgy history/ list of dislikes let alone for a 5 figure sum however good looking he is, I may be mistaken but I think I read he could not be lunged for the vetting but that this was not considered an issue, can he be lunged or long reined now? Just seen he didn't lunge which means part of the vetting, possibly in this case the most important part, was not done.
I am surprised a scintigraph has not been done, I thought it was the go to for this type of problem, it can muddy the waters a bit if a lot is found but it should at least allow any suspect areas to be targeted, I would also have done a decent bute trial by now, again it doesn't give a diagnosis and may not rule out pain but it can certainly rule it in if the horse responds.

I would also go right back to basics with a horse like this but it may be too far down the line for a period of time off to really chill and 6 months starting as if he knows nothing, I would also take the shoes off.

 

[Michen]

Given the price of a good hunter I can understand why he would have been, in theory, worth that money to an extent if he is proven with excellent references etc.

 

[palo1]

Like ycbm I am amazed this horse was bought/ sold with what sounds like a very dodgy history/ list of dislikes let alone for a 5 figure sum however good looking he is, I may be mistaken but I think I read he could not be lunged for the vetting but that this was not considered an issue, can he be lunged or long reined now? Just seen he didn't lunge which means part of the vetting, possibly in this case the most important part, was not done.
I am surprised a scintigraph has not been done, I thought it was the go to for this type of problem, it can muddy the waters a bit if a lot is found but it should at least allow any suspect areas to be targeted, I would also have done a decent bute trial by now, again it doesn't give a diagnosis and may not rule out pain but it can certainly rule it in if the horse responds.

I would also go right back to basics with a horse like this but it may be too far down the line for a period of time off to really chill and 6 months starting as if he knows nothing, I would also take the shoes off.

The horse has been lunged completely successfully and without issue since so that query was put to bed fairly easily. I have no idea why this wasn't possible at the original vetting - it was a decent vet and facilities were available. Just odd.

 

[palo1]

Like ycbm I am amazed this horse was bought/ sold with what sounds like a very dodgy history/ list of dislikes let alone for a 5 figure sum however good looking he is, I may be mistaken but I think I read he could not be lunged for the vetting but that this was not considered an issue, can he be lunged or long reined now? Just seen he didn't lunge which means part of the vetting, possibly in this case the most important part, was not done.
I am surprised a scintigraph has not been done, I thought it was the go to for this type of problem, it can muddy the waters a bit if a lot is found but it should at least allow any suspect areas to be targeted, I would also have done a decent bute trial by now, again it doesn't give a diagnosis and may not rule out pain but it can certainly rule it in if the horse responds.

I would also go right back to basics with a horse like this but it may be too far down the line for a period of time off to really chill and 6 months starting as if he knows nothing, I would also take the shoes off.

I don't think his history is specifically 'dodgy' though he has had a number of homes since the age of 3. I don't understand myself why the vetting vet (from a very reputable equine hospital) didn't either insist that this had to be included or call a halt to the vetting/place a serious advisory on the notes at this point. But they didnt and consultation between owners vet and vetting vet was positive and with no areas of concern around that. No clue why!! I do think a scintigraph would help but I also wonder if the current vet feels that ulcers are the key problem and to start with that...

I don't think shoes will be taken off and nor do I think the owner would want to give the horse 6 months off to re-start. That may be a sensible course of action to some but I personally don't feel that either of those things would resolve the issue.

 

[oldie48]

Come to this late but thought I would add my two pennies worth as you sound as though you are describing my pony. I could have written this word for word. In his case he had suspensory issues. Now these are resolved he is happy to do certain activities, eg hack out a couple times a week and he absolutely loves ground work. But if I attempted to school him he would immediately revert back to this behaviour. I pay £150 per ultrasound when the vets check my lads legs now. Which would be a fairly cheap and quick thing to rule out before passing him on. Just a thought! X

A friend has spent a fortune on her horse, lots of behavioural issues, some lameness issues with front feet etc finally diagnosed as issues with both hind suspensories all the issues were due to the horse compensating from hind limb pain which resulted in the horse being lame in front.
edit. fwiw this was a horse who competed at medium at regionals with a good result despite knackered hind suspensories, horses amaze me!

 

[RachelFerd]

Wouldn't waste money on scintigraphy (bone scan) - poor performance work up using nerve blocks *under saddle* and ultrasound of hind suspensories is cheaper and more accurate. Scintigraphy usually throws up a load of false positives and is only really of use when you've got something very acute going on which is causing you to not want to nerve block under saddle.

 

[Michen]

Wouldn't waste money on scintigraphy (bone scan) - poor performance work up using nerve blocks *under saddle* and ultrasound of hind suspensories is cheaper and more accurate. Scintigraphy usually throws up a load of false positives and is only really of use when you've got something very acute going on which is causing you to not want to nerve block under saddle.

Where on earth would you start with the nerve blocks on a horse showing no lameness?

 

[RachelFerd]

Where on earth would you start with the nerve blocks on a horse showing no lameness?

So - this is based on my experience as a rider for poor performance work-ups at the AHT.

After an initial assessment on the lunge and under saddle, you pick the most suspect leg, and start by blocking up that leg gradually. So starting by blocking foot, then pastern, then fetlock, then hock. If the horse doesn't engage well, then you'd probably be picking a hind leg to start with. What will often happen is that with nerve blocks (usually once you're covering hocks and suspensories) the leg you haven't blocked will start to appear lame as the blocked leg improves.

You then move on to blocking the other hindleg - so this will usually then level out any unequalness you have created.

Then, quite often, because the horse is moving better behind, you'll then be able to sport some unlevelness in front and work to block that too.

By doing each assessment after each block under saddle, the rider can report back on what they feel - not just visible lameness. So you're getting input on how the contact feels, the horses willingness, their ability to flex and bend, their desire to go forwards and step under etc.


If by blocking the limbs the horse still isn't going sufficiently well, nerve blocks into the sacroiliac and into spinous processes can also show if there are problems there that are impacting performance.

The good thing about doing nerve blocks under saddle is that you are looking for the root cause of the ridden problems - rather than looking for things on imaging which might end up being just coincidental.

After hte blocking process, there will be short list of areas of the horse to do further imaging on - which is probably a combination of x-ray, ultrasound... and then MRI if the first two haven't shown anything clear.

 

[RachelFerd]

So - this is based on my experience as a rider for poor performance work-ups at the AHT.

After an initial assessment on the lunge and under saddle, you pick the most suspect leg, and start by blocking up that leg gradually. So starting by blocking foot, then pastern, then fetlock, then hock. If the horse doesn't engage well, then you'd probably be picking a hind leg to start with. What will often happen is that with nerve blocks (usually once you're covering hocks and suspensories) the leg you haven't blocked will start to appear lame as the blocked leg improves.

You then move on to blocking the other hindleg - so this will usually then level out any unequalness you have created.

Then, quite often, because the horse is moving better behind, you'll then be able to sport some unlevelness in front and work to block that too.

By doing each assessment after each block under saddle, the rider can report back on what they feel - not just visible lameness. So you're getting input on how the contact feels, the horses willingness, their ability to flex and bend, their desire to go forwards and step under etc.


If by blocking the limbs the horse still isn't going sufficiently well, nerve blocks into the sacroiliac and into spinous processes can also show if there are problems there that are impacting performance.

The good thing about doing nerve blocks under saddle is that you are looking for the root cause of the ridden problems - rather than looking for things on imaging which might end up being just coincidental.

After hte blocking process, there will be short list of areas of the horse to do further imaging on - which is probably a combination of x-ray, ultrasound... and then MRI if the first two haven't shown anything clear.

And just to add - in the 18 months I was there doing poor performance ridden work-ups, I can't think of a single horse that we couldn't find some clear root causes of the issue. Sometimes the problems were really subtle - eg. a dressage horse that only had a problem with half pass and otherwise appeared sound. It was only in half pass that he became very resistant and sharp - nerve blocking was able to turn the horse into one that half passed easily. And thus, root problem was identified very quickly.

The AHT is no more, but Rachel Murray is now at Rossdales and is a brilliant poor performance vet.

 

[be positive]

I don't think his history is specifically 'dodgy' though he has had a number of homes since the age of 3. I don't understand myself why the vetting vet (from a very reputable equine hospital) didn't either insist that this had to be included or call a halt to the vetting/place a serious advisory on the notes at this point. But they didnt and consultation between owners vet and vetting vet was positive and with no areas of concern around that. No clue why!! I do think a scintigraph would help but I also wonder if the current vet feels that ulcers are the key problem and to start with that...

I don't think shoes will be taken off and nor do I think the owner would want to give the horse 6 months off to re-start. That may be a sensible course of action to some but I personally don't feel that either of those things would resolve the issue.

Dodgy was not really the word I should have used but to my mind a well bred, good looking horse that has no issues when starting out in ridden life rarely gets passed about without someone finding out what it can do successfully at the better end of the market, the fact he has been moved on frequently without achieving a record, other than being a 'quiet hunter' by the age of 7 when purchased by your friend, suggests this has been going on for some time, I have had some tricky characters over the years but most find a job they can do, hacking well in company being fundamental, although I did have one that could be tricky doing that he did show to a high level and did a decent dressage test but was one that did not get sold on.

Shoes off and a total break would be a last resort if the owner did not want to pts without one last try but I understand not everyone will want to consider that, I have a field ornament that I was going to get restarted, he is older, sound but mentally tricky, life got in the way so he is probably having one last summer.