Horse collapsing under saddle - any experiences...?

[catembi]

The horse is a 6 yo QH that I have owned for nearly a year. He was brilliant to start with - v laid back, v athletic, bright, quick to learn, brave jumping etc. After about 6 months, he started having the odd 'angry' episode of not working forward, being sharp, exploding... Back, teeth, saddle all checked. He has also always been a bit stumbly, but behind, especially on landing from a jump, & has lately been bucking on landing. Teeth & saddle done again. I have been afraid to ride him as he will suddenly go off on one with no correlation to how long he's been worked for. I.e. not 'fresh horse' syndrome as he's as likely to do it after 30 minutes.

Anyway, yesterday I did an arena hire, lunged for 10 minutes, all well, got on, after a few minutes in walk, asked him to trot - and he went down to roll (I thought). No warning - in fact, when his head went up, I thought he was going to buck/rear, so was ready for that & v surprised when he went down. Got him up, got back on, carried on, did another 20 minutes in walk, trot, canter. He was resistant & uncoordinated in canter.

Today I went for a lesson with a v experienced ex international eventer. Lunged for 10 minutes, one rein was okay, had a bit of horse shaped kite on the other rein, got on, okay in walk, went to do a trotting pole in trot...and he went down. The trainer said she had never seen anything like that before, & that he collapsed when the hind leg was taking the load of stepping over the pole. So not rolling...collapsing. He also struggled to get up. I have been advised not to ride him again.

He isn't insured (long story) but tbh, if I got this investigated, is it likely that they'd find anything fixable? What would you even do to find this? Neurological workup? Bone scan? Xrays...? I am v v deflated, both for myself & for him as he is a very, very nice natured & capable horse and I think this is probably it for us :-(

All experiences appreciated. Thank you for reading.

 

[milliepops]

Oh bugger. Sorry to hear this has been happening. I think I'd book in to horspital for a work up with a neuro specialist.

My wobbler is such a genuine horse but she was prone to random explosions, I think she did it when she just got in a right muddle with where her legs were. she would also topple over if she spooked hard. I think I would investigate this, as you have a loss of performance rather than a horse that never really got it together, it may be something that can be treated or medicated (mine has arthritic changes in her neck so we opted not to treat her at this stage as she's happy in retirement).

 

[Leo Walker]

has he been tested for PSSM wth that breeding?

 

[TheMule]

Poor horse
It sounds like he has something pretty significant going on- I would have a basic neurological exam done and perhaps x-ray the neck and back if you want a chance of knowing something more, but it could be a long and expensive road of diagnostics with limited long term options

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I would look at muscle myopathies and have a neurological work up.

Blood tests for muclse emzymes and you can send a tail hair test off to animal genetics for both pssm type one and two.

I would also be wanting a work up by a neurological specialist.

 

[TPO]

Is he a purebred QH?

 

[catembi]

My ISH had EPSM & he was totally different - v lethargic, improved if allowed a shuffly trot, then walk, then more trot etc. Cody is free moving & not at all lethargic. He does toe drag behind, worse on one side.

I think in my heart that I've got another field ornament. He collapsed & went down v fast - imagine if we'd been jumping. He has also done it two days in a row. Realistically I don't want to spend thousands having every test under the sun (as I did with Mr EPSM) only to find that there isn't much that can be done. E.g. if it's some sort of wobblers etc.

 

[TPO]

Unrelated but mums last horse went down once like this in walk and transpired to be a (newly developed but severe) heart murmur. Chances of it being the same thing are very slim. After he went down the vet was called immediately and he wasnt ridden again. He was then deemed a danger to himself and ha doers should he go down again if, for example, galloping across the field.

 

[catembi]

No, he is QH x TB. Someone kindly looked up his breeding for me a while ago, & he is in the danger zone for EPSM. But then, he's half TB.

 

[TPO]

No, he is QH x TB. Someone kindly looked up his breeding for me a while ago, & he is in the danger zone for EPSM. But then, he's half TB.

Does he go back to Impressive? I was thinking more HYPP but I dont know if it affects partbreds

 

[milliepops]

I think you might be able to get answers without spending a bomb, mine was diagnosed after a normal lameness workup (lunge hard and soft, trot up and flexions) and some neck x rays. the only thing that would make me think it's worth looking into is because if there has been some trauma, for instance causing inflammation it may be that some medication into the area could bring that down. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Has he been tested for HYPP? Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis. Carried through the Impressive line.

 

[ester]

partbreds can be HYPP n/h which historically used to be touted as asymptomatic but I think stuff I've seen recently suggests thats not actually the case
I'd want his heart listened to, and basic neuro testing which wouldn't be much then decide what to do.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'm sure there is a thread about a n/h symptomatic horse on COTH at the moment... I'll try to find it.

ETA thread link. Post 5 mentions horses with the condition falling down. I'm sure you could have him tested for the condition so you could cheaply know if it is what is causing his issues or not.
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/horse-care/10586187-symptomatic-hypp

 

[catembi]

Okay, this is his breeding. I can’t remember which stallion was the EPSM problem.

Oh gosh, why won't photos attach any more...?! I will keep trying...

 

[catembi]

Trying again... Hope it works...

Nope, that's not at all right...

 

[ycbm]

Okay, this is his breeding. I can’t remember which stallion was the EPSM problem.

Oh gosh, why won't photos attach any more...?! I will keep trying...

There's no source stallion for EPSM/PSSM, it's rife and has been for centuries as Monday Morning Disease.

Impressive was the source for HYPP.

 

[Shay]

We had a horse on trial who did this - turned out to be early stage wobblers. he actually went down in the vetting! So sorry OP - it doesn't sound good.

Monday morning disease is Rhabdomylosis, or tying up. At least thats what it is in the UK.

 

[catembi]

Third time lucky...?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

A cheap check would be to lunge him but check out heart rate and pulses before, after 5 mins and then after 10. Have you got a stethoscope? Its something you can do at home to check.

 

[ycbm]

Most of the neuro tests are easy too.

.

 

[SEL]

A 5 panel test with Animal Genetics isn't expensive and nor is a blood draw by your vets / quick once over for heart, neuro etc. I'd do that first

I haven't found x rays to be particularly expensive so long as you are very clear there's no insurance. I changed vets to one's who would take a pragmatic view rather than countless nerve blocks.

I'm sorry this has happened. The life of field pets is one I know too well sadly.

 

[catembi]

It is such an almighty PITA! He is a really good horse. He is no trouble at all...loads, good manners, up until all the trouble started he was v calm, I could take him anywhere & do anything & be confident that we would have a good time, not a sick/sorry type, really personable, friendly, bright. He deserves better than PTS but I am not sure what else there is. He is also v good friends with Trev & they have a real bromance going on. Trev has never had a pal that he's got on with before. Aaarrrgghhh, what a waste of a super natured, v athletic horse. I am v sad, but I have the nasty feeling that investigations etc will be clutching at straws. Horses shouldn't just drop like that.

 

[Teaboy]

Neuro tests are quite easy and quick to perform and xraying of neck and back is not that vastly expensive. I would be doing ASAP.

 

[blodwyn1]

I had a cold backed mare who would do this if you tried to touch her legs after girthing up. She always had to be walked around before mounting and was then ok.

 

[popcorn1]

Gutted for you.

 

[ester]

I can only find results for two eyed red buck which is a bit far back to say anything really. It doesn't mention it on the stallion card for skipper

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think I would book a neuro test with the vet and discuss a neck x-ray with them.

I would also have him 5 panel tested (HYPP, PSSM, MH, GBED and HERDA). I looked on AQHA.com and there is a write up about all the things it tests for on there. I just popped HYPP in the search box and it came up in the results.

I did have a quick look on allbreedpedigree and thankfully I couldn't see Impressive but they do share common ancestors (Three Bars) which of course may mean nothing at all.

I think doing both of these things should help you know where you stand, are worth doing and should be within a sensible budget.

 

[paddy555]

Third time lucky...?

Re your pedigree. Have you put the whole QH side pedigree on the FB PSSM group? if not I would do so and someone will tell you exactly what is in there. If you think he is in the danger zone for PSSM I would start with the obvious and test for PSSM 1 and 2 and HYPP. Possibly if someone recognises the pedigree you may only have to test for one thing. The two PSSM genetic tests will cost just under £250, I don't know what HYPP costs. At least you will then have an answer as to the most obvious.
I certainly wouldn't give up on what sounds to be a really nice horse without giving it a chance.

have you put your original post on the FB PSSM groups? If not I would do so as there are so many QH owners on there that they are likely to recognise your problem. That won't cost you anything.

When I started out down the PSSM route my horse kept doing down lying flat out in the field with his legs totally stiff and sticking out (like a dead animal) He just lay there for no apparent reason and repeated this behaviour several times. He is now ridden daily.

 

[Goldenstar]

First thing you need is a visit from a decent vet .
I have seen a horse doing exactly it had bone spavins !!