Horse had rotational fall with daughter today, opinions please .

JustKickOn

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2006
Messages
16,994
Visit site
Oh my goodness, stop twisting my words I am not after people veterinary opinions I have a fantastic vet, I am asking on people views on rotational tripping falls ..
I have owned the horse since feb 2013, she's hunted oct 2013 until march 2014, been rested with a clean bill of health, been brought back into work with road work, and had light lunging , which hasn't worked for us, been recommended we try schooling instead with an instructor I might add, working on a program from physio, had like 1 lesson ... It is excessive for what I would do with her, but but 15 miles rides ( 3.5 hr ride ) is far from excessive for a horse .... Seriously people have no idea what a long ride is for a horse , I also add she slipped up on road and was checked , no I'll affects, her squaring off that hoof is what we work on it's her action , vet or physio not bothered other than advising I try to get her working a bit straighter with physio keeping her supple inbetween.

I've stated she may have some neuro problems and going to ask for further tests, but not going to speculate , cob owners will realise the issues with tripping... Thanks for scaring off the timid people who might like to have commented with something constructive ... Same old same old here!
And same old bored bags having a dig

Same old same old indeed.

Same old post asking for opinions and then poohooing because they don't like what they read.

Your horse is doing too much work, too soon after coming back into work.
She has a weak leg. The tripping and falling is telling you she cannot cope.
Your physio has given you advice as to what to do, and you've ignored it. A Pessoa asks the horses to step under more, which helps build up muscle on the top of their bum. You've ignored the advice from the physio, then said she needs to develop muscle in the place a Pessoa will help. They are effective gadgets when used for maximum 20 mins and in walk only.
After a series of falls, or even the first, I would not be riding this horse (and if I had kids they certainly wouldn't be riding them!!).

The mare is telling you something is wrong. Why have you ridden her intensively for two weeks before doing something?!

Get your vet.
Get another vet for a second opinion.
 

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
65,903
Location
South
Visit site
She's shod every 6 weeks , so on week 5 ! She hasn't tripped until today .... Last time she tripped was back when I first got her before a season tripping.
Bumbling along is fine, historically she tripped when she rushed and was on ether forehand and running through the bridle, like I say, she's changed massively since then ... She was unable to walk in a straight line when I got her , on fact used to run up the bank!!

Ah right. You said she hadn't tripped since the summer. I took that to mean recently.

I think 6 weeks is a long time in between shoeing generally - especially when your doing so much work. I would absolutely talk to your farrier about a 5 week shoeing programme.

And perhaps start working with your instructor on working on athleticism and suppling work.

I would also take a step back work wise, and re-evaluate the words your vet actually used. My vet has always told me to give my horses as much work as possible. What he has never meant, though, is to do this without consideration for what that work is and the management of the horse.
 

Bexx

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 May 2010
Messages
497
Location
Chester-le-Street
Visit site
Just the same as people, different horses cope differently with work loads. This work load may not have been too much for a horse you have previously owned, but you need to treat each horse as an individual. They all need to be built up from scratch and some take longer than others. Considering your mare has had 4 foals already, it does not surprise me in the slightest that she is weak. If it was me, I'd get a full work up from the vet. Only when the vet is happy I'd start completely from scratch. Lost of long lining initially. Short hacks with bursts of walk and trot, building up in time every few weeks and eventually introducing some poles. The young mare I ride has been in work all summer but the longest she hacks out is 2 hours as I don't want to over do it
 

be positive

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 July 2011
Messages
19,396
Visit site
I think 3.5 hours of hacking on testing terrain is excessive for a horse not long back in work, who has recently had a fall, who has a history of being weak and getting tired on one hind leg.

Generally most horses are not worked hard enough but they need to be sound and fit to do so, the weak hind leg has not responded to the treatment so far if it is still weak 18 months after her starting work with you and I think it requires proper investigation by a vet, there could be numerous things going on which no amount of physio and hard work will put right, having a horse with a recently diagnosed SI injury I know how long these type of things take to find and how long it will take to fix if it ever can be, he would be more than able to go off for a long jolly hack, he was doing regular 2 hour hacks last year despite not being quite right but I was told by my then vet to keep going and get him fit, totally the wrong thing but I was told to so we continued until I had enough of riding a horse that was not quite right, he also tripped although never falling over, horses rarely go down let alone more than once unless they really have problems.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
Not at all, I am an intelligent person , what bugs me is people don't read the posts properly, My vet is amazing , ppl wait to be allowed on his list ... The facts are he the horse has tripped ONCE... She he slipped up the other week , that is very different, I recognise it's not normal to have a rotational fall l hence why I said in my original post that we need to investigate further. I worded it badly when is I my horse is weak, she's incredibly strong in her back end, huge strong backside, but the muscles are wrong, so jumping is difficult for her, and so is schooling, but they don't want intensive schooling, Pessoa work has been dropped as it's hard for her on the left rein, plenty of ways to skin a cat,this is on my physios say so!
If i didn't have a vet or physio or master saddle fitter I can understand your strong opinions, but my horse is seen regularily and we are following a program .
How do you feel about my other horse having choke last night and going on a 15 miler today? Because I asked the locum vet that question too....
I think people have no understanding of a 3 hour hack in a horse, you see 15 miles and think omg , you are probably the same people who rug your horses because you have a coat on. My horses work, they are well looked after and have hundreds of pounds spend on them for treatment, some for my piece of mind. Yes I do think some of you are ridiculous , I also come to this forum in her he hope I can sift through the opinionated no noughts and glean all little good advice from knowledgeable people.
Very arrogant to suggest I am ignoring my vet , I think I am guilty for wording weak back end ... But my vet is adament I do transitions to build her io rather than intense schooling.
Usual suspects jumped on the band wagon without reading.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
No but she lost her last foal ?
I have never really had a bad tripping with her before and was a thing of her he past, but certainly worth discussing, thankyou !
 

The Fuzzy Furry

Getting old disgracefully
Joined
24 November 2010
Messages
28,453
Location
Pootling around......
Visit site
I think people have no understanding of a 3 hour hack in a horse, you see 15 miles and think omg , you are probably the same people who rug your horses because you have a coat on. My horses work, they are well looked after and have hundreds of pounds spend on them for treatment, some for my piece of mind.

DD, be careful with getting carried away on your keyboard & labelling people...... that is what I call ignorant.
 

LizzieWizzie

Active Member
Joined
4 February 2013
Messages
41
Visit site
Wow! People come to forums for advice from fellow horse lovers, not a crucifixion. All those with different experiences have an opportunity to help others and instead you make people afraid to ask by going straight for the jugular!

If you don't understand a post or if the original explanation does not carry as much information as you would like to be able to help then ask OP constructive questions don't just assume and go for the kill. OP is concerned for her mare has consulted experts, reputable vets, farriers and physio. OP has clearly stated that mare hasn't tripped recently until today, slipped previously on smooth road. Has had full work up since fall and given clean bill of health. OP has stated that she is schooling with instructor to correct balance and build correct muscles. OP is asking for your advice, benefit of your knowledge.

People are afraid to come to places like this when they need advice, you could cost a beautiful horse it's life! When someone needs help with colic or something terrible why would they come to you for help when they would be far too afraid of your wrath! You all have just thrown your egos full force into a game of 'who's lead mare round here'. You should all be ashamed! Surely someone has something constructive to Say?!
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
Yes she wouldn't usually be worked this hard , I said that in my original post and in hindsight I think she must be tired today, they are often fizzy when tired.
I think he did cut a fair bit off last time and now ow seems to be good hoof growing , I will take that on board and speak to my farrier, he did suggest longer on last visit.
 

joycec

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 March 2014
Messages
273
Visit site
Transitions ARE intense schooling, especially on a weak hind leg. Does your vet actually understand what he's saying?
 

Moomin1

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2010
Messages
7,970
Visit site
Wow! People come to forums for advice from fellow horse lovers, not a crucifixion. All those with different experiences have an opportunity to help others and instead you make people afraid to ask by going straight for the jugular!

If you don't understand a post or if the original explanation does not carry as much information as you would like to be able to help then ask OP constructive questions don't just assume and go for the kill. OP is concerned for her mare has consulted experts, reputable vets, farriers and physio. OP has clearly stated that mare hasn't tripped recently until today, slipped previously on smooth road. Has had full work up since fall and given clean bill of health. OP has stated that she is schooling with instructor to correct balance and build correct muscles. OP is asking for your advice, benefit of your knowledge.

People are afraid to come to places like this when they need advice, you could cost a beautiful horse it's life! When someone needs help with colic or something terrible why would they come to you for help when they would be far too afraid of your wrath! You all have just thrown your egos full force into a game of 'who's lead mare round here'. You should all be ashamed! Surely someone has something constructive to Say?!

Are you for real?? 'When someone needs help with colic'? Err..you call a vet...not take the advice of people on a forum.

The mind actually boggles. It really does.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
No I haven t ignored my physio, it's been discussed the Pessoa is too much with her behaviour in her he lunge, she went away with the instructor for a week as she wouldn't even lunge at first, why are you not listening? Seriously I have already said it was decided the pessoa was not going to work
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
Are you for real?? 'When someone needs help with colic'? Err..you call a vet...not take the advice of people on a forum.

The mind actually boggles. It really does.

And there you go attacking some one else too, she's quite right, if I someone came here for advice saying my horse is rolling a lot today, you lot might slate them, when really they need someone explaining, my mind boggles and to be honest I give up....
 

BWa

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 September 2012
Messages
753
Location
The flat lands of Yorkshire
Visit site
I was always taught that you do one week walk work for every week of rest (for hunters) so if she has has 6 weeks off, she needs six weeks walk work to strengthen legs before the more intense work begins. I think they can lose fitness much quicker than 12 weeks, even if out 24/7, correct muscle tone will quickly disappear if it's not being used. This is where the Pessoa may help.
 

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
65,903
Location
South
Visit site
How do you feel about my other horse having choke last night and going on a 15 miler today? Because I asked the locum vet that question too....

I'm guessing that's not a serious question - because we know what a competent equine vets' answer to that would be. A big fat no....

I think people have no understanding of a 3 hour hack in a horse, you see 15 miles and think omg , you are probably the same people who rug your horses because you have a coat on. My horses work, they are well looked after and have hundreds of pounds spend on them for treatment, some for my piece of mind.

And yes, I for one, have a full understanding of a three hour hack (although what that has to with anything is beyond me). As for the rest, that's just rude and childish.

People are frustrated because your posts are hard to follow (timelines skewed, issues described - but then contradicted (I refer to your first post where you say she tripped loads, but now has only done it once)), a simple lack of understanding of workloads vs good management.....
 
Last edited:

Leo Walker

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2013
Messages
12,384
Location
Northampton
Visit site
I have 2 cobs, a 15.2hh show cob type and a 14.2hh traditional. The tradtional tripped twice yesterday on a 40 min walk hack. He tripped because hes a 4yr old out on his first proper hack from a new yard and was gawking at everything. But I also appreciate that he was probably a little bit tired, mentally more than physically. i know why hes done it and it doesnt worry me. If I didnt know why I would be worrying, especially if he had a weak hindleg and incorrect muscle development. If my older boy started tripping I'd be wanting a full work up. Cobs dont trip more than any other horse without a reason surely?! Where has the incorrect muscle development come from? They dont usually develop incorrectly unless they have a problem or are ridden incorrectly surely?
 

LizzieWizzie

Active Member
Joined
4 February 2013
Messages
41
Visit site
Are you for real?? 'When someone needs help with colic'? Err..you call a vet...not take the advice of people on a forum.

The mind actually boggles. It really does.

Another ridiculous assumption by you! Of course they do moomin1, but when the vet has left and and you're left on watch, scared and worried, you turn to the advice and comfort of fellow horse owners, unless of course they just make assumptions and accusations like you! Constructive as ever.... Impressive! We're talking about advice here not bitching. Your response to this post just proves your purpose here.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
I have 2 cobs, a 15.2hh show cob type and a 14.2hh traditional. The tradtional tripped twice yesterday on a 40 min walk hack. He tripped because hes a 4yr old out on his first proper hack from a new yard and was gawking at everything. But I also appreciate that he was probably a little bit tired, mentally more than physically. i know why hes done it and it doesnt worry me. If I didnt know why I would be worrying, especially if he had a weak hindleg and incorrect muscle development. If my older boy started tripping I'd be wanting a full work up. Cobs dont trip more than any other horse without a reason surely?! Where has the incorrect muscle development come from? They dont usually develop incorrectly unless they have a problem or are ridden incorrectly surely?

She came to be as an abused 6 yr old who had 4 foals, was extremely underweight and been driven, yes she was worked incorrectly ... I fact she's 8... Uh oh .. You're hacking your 4 yr old ... Big strong slow growing breed.... Spines fuse last... Wait to your slaughter .. Poor lamb
 

Moomin1

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2010
Messages
7,970
Visit site
Another ridiculous assumption by you! Of course they do moomin1, but when the vet has left and and you're left on watch, scared and worried, you turn to the advice and comfort of fellow horse owners, unless of course they just make assumptions and accusations like you! Constructive as ever.... Impressive! We're talking about advice here not bitching. Your response to this post just proves your purpose here.

Call it that if you wish - I really don't care. I have given my advice to OP. My advice is that she has massively overworked a horse who clearly has either an underlying issue, or is not up to being worked to the extent she is. OP doesn't appear to be able to either grasp that, or accept it - not sure which.
 

LizzieWizzie

Active Member
Joined
4 February 2013
Messages
41
Visit site
And there you go attacking some one else too, she's quite right, if I someone came here for advice saying my horse is rolling a lot today, you lot might slate them, when really they need someone explaining, my mind boggles and to be honest I give up....

My point exactly DD perhaps there are better places to look for advice than here! Not sure anyone is safe!!
 

LizzieWizzie

Active Member
Joined
4 February 2013
Messages
41
Visit site
Call it that if you wish - I really don't care. I have given my advice to OP. My advice is that she has massively overworked a horse who clearly has either an underlying issue, or is not up to being worked to the extent she is. OP doesn't appear to be able to either grasp that, or accept it - not sure which.

That's what is so frustrating about this. You may well be very experienced and have very good advice. But instead of giving this in a constructive manor you scare people away by being ferocious. There is just no need for it. Will gain you no respect.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
Ok last post ..... Amy ... My mare tripped loads in he the first yr, then nothing after a seasons hunting .......... Slipped up on slippery road, ünconnected .... Then tripped today In canter.

Apologies re typing it's on the iPad, it has a mind of it's own .

Lizzie thankyou , but best not to get involved, night night
 

_GG_

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 August 2012
Messages
9,037
Location
Gloucester
Visit site
Another ridiculous assumption by you! Of course they do moomin1, but when the vet has left and and you're left on watch, scared and worried, you turn to the advice and comfort of fellow horse owners, unless of course they just make assumptions and accusations like you! Constructive as ever.... Impressive! We're talking about advice here not bitching. Your response to this post just proves your purpose here.

Constructive as ever, yet only 30 posts. Are you a former member?

Anyway, that is beside the point. OP, I wouldn't work the horse until she has had a full work up. I don't agree with the way you have handled things and I have read all of your posts well. I still conclude that you had opportunities to recognise a problem before this fall happened. But, that's done now, so it's where you go from here and I would suggest speaking with your farrier as Amymay has suggested and with your vet and physio. For whatever reason, the horse has been struggling and kept in continued work...they can't keep it up forever and I'm only glad the fall wasn't worse, for the mare and your daughter.

I would also be very inclined to ask the vet about nerve damage as someone else has said. She's been an immature dam and the chances of damage are quite high from what you have said, so I would bear that in mind. It could be fixable, it could be permanent, but you'll only find out through thorough investigation.

Good luck and please...the comments you are making about other posters may make you feel better, but they are just as likely, if not more so, to make others steer clear of sharing their advice or wanting to join in a discussion. It's just not necessary when it is so much easier to ignore that which you don't like.
 
Top