Horse had rotational fall with daughter today, opinions please .

_GG_

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Looking from OPs perspective from the onset attack seemed the best form of defence since she was rather set upon instantly when simply asking for help and advice.

Intimidation is a form of bullying and really very unlikely to be assistive.

I would hope people would learn from this how to treat others properly, with respect and compassion. Far too lacking in this world sadly.

Compassion and understanding. I do agree with most of what you have said LW. I just don't think it is wrong for people to highlight that there may be question marks. I just wish it was done less aggressively and with more respect as you say.

I want to hear people experiences, I've contacted my professionals , it's not an emergency, they will come when they are ready, she's not in pain, she tripped over, seriously.... First time, I don't think it's right hence why I have asked for help from the professionals in her he mean time I was interested in stories and outcomes, shoot me!! Please

She might be in pain, worth bearing in mind and I do really wish you luck and hope you and your vet can get to the bottom of it as she sounds like a really sweet mare that deserves all the attention you can lavish on her.
 

Devonshire dumpling

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Ok, then may I suggest an opening post that just says, "Horse had a rotational fall in canter on a hack...anyone else got experience of this, any medical outcomes?"

You didn't. You gave a lot of information in an unclear way and yes, you've had some blunt answers and people could have worded things better, but so could you and you have been far more rude than anyone else on the thread. I came on to post constructively, that was ignored and instead, you've been somewhat strange and argumentative. I just don't get it?

I was bombarded, I couldn't keep up, I took the time to write a long post and I spent the first hour correcting assumptions.. Apologies , I just can't stand ignorant people , see so many people bullied here and they then delete the post or go quiet, I usually come on nd and speak up for them, it's always the same culprits moomin for example, Amy may I actually quite like if not a bit brash, as she is damn knowledgable , i started the thread. BY saying she will be having a full work up but in he the mean time has anyone had a rotational fall in a canter .... You read the rest yourself.
I see people back track and lie on here, and I am not one of those people, I find it amazingly informative, but you have to sift through the BS.
 

joycec

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Looking from OPs perspective from the onset attack seemed the best form of defence since she was rather set upon instantly when simply asking for help and advice.

Intimidation is a form of bullying and really very unlikely to be assistive.

I would hope people would learn from this how to treat others properly, with respect and compassion. Far too lacking in this world sadly.

DD wasn't attacked or bullied. Post fourteen was the first overtly critical post, and imo justified by the information which had been given. The OPs respond at post fifteen was to say 'And same old bored bags having a dig' And he/she went on to make other disparaging remarks.

Really LizzieWizzie, cut the lectures out , please.
 

be positive

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i would switch physio. I have never seen a physio sign off a horse as fine for work when it is obviously showing discomfort on the lunge. I like getting crocks of horses and fixing them up so have worked with physios on a couple of horses that had tripping issues. Recently had one horse showing discomfort turning left and physio advised to avoid riding and start doing bending and physio work from ground. Then increasing to inhand work and then lunging. All a gradual, slow process working and watching to see how horse reacts. I find it bizarre that a physio would advise you to keep working a horse and doing long hikes over difficult terrain when its obviously struggling on a leg. I would definitely change physio.

I said earlier that the physio, if they have been treating this horse regularly, should have stopped long ago as she has not responded to treatment and should be referred back to the vet, she may have improved but not enough if the leg is still weak and a decent physio would not continue with treatment and certainly will not sign off for hard work a horse that is technically unlevel which this mare seems to be.
 

_GG_

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I was bombarded, I couldn't keep up, I took the time to write a long post and I spent the first hour correcting assumptions.. Apologies , I just can't stand ignorant people , see so many people bullied here and they then delete the post or go quiet, I usually come on nd and speak up for them, it's always the same culprits moomin for example, Amy may I actually quite like if not a bit brash, as she is damn knowledgable , i started the thread. BY saying she will be having a full work up but in he the mean time has anyone had a rotational fall in a canter .... You read the rest yourself.
I see people back track and lie on here, and I am not one of those people, I find it amazingly informative, but you have to sift through the BS.

On much of that I agree...but I will say that Moomin1 is also very knowledgeable but sometimes people have reasons for not perhaps being as eloquent as they could....just as you had difficulty writing the post...which I absolutely empathise with. Very easy to mess it all up into a jumble of words when emotions are high.
 

Devonshire dumpling

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Compassion and understanding. I do agree with most of what you have said LW. I just don't think it is wrong for people to highlight that there may be question marks. I just wish it was done less aggressively and with more respect as you say.

Thanks, I've been told she's not been in pain , and wasn't after the slip on the road although was given bute as a preventative on advice, perhaps the next day it was masking, perhaps things have developed over 10 days, am awaiting a call back from vet physio, she is amazingly sweet and I would never put my daughter on her if I felt she was going to fall, I am very over protective of them both, thank god she had a level 3 body protector on.
We have spent a lot of money on her to get her where she is today and I will need my saddle checked now too
 

Moomin1

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On much of that I agree...but I will say that Moomin1 is also very knowledgeable but sometimes people have reasons for not perhaps being as eloquent as they could....just as you had difficulty writing the post...which I absolutely empathise with. Very easy to mess it all up into a jumble of words when emotions are high.

My reason for not being as eloquent as I could GG is quite simply that I get sick to the back teeth of seeing people put their horse's welfare (and in this case their child's) on the line, yet vehemently refuse to accept it, despite asking publicly for advice. The same pattern happens over and over again in these scenarios - the story alters as the thread goes on to make it more 'acceptable' what they are doing.

I should learn to perhaps dress it up in tinsel and lights to make it more palatable in future...
 

_GG_

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My reason for not being as eloquent as I could GG is quite simply that I get sick to the back teeth of seeing people put their horse's welfare (and in this case their child's) on the line, yet vehemently refuse to accept it, despite asking publicly for advice. The same pattern happens over and over again in these scenarios - the story alters as the thread goes on to make it more 'acceptable' what they are doing.

I should learn to perhaps dress it up in tinsel and lights to make it more palatable in future...

You don't need to do that for me. The world needs people that tell it like it is, I wish I could find the words to do that sometimes. In fact...if I really said the first things that came into my head on these threads sometimes, I'd probably be banned! I totally get where you're coming from, hence wanting other posters to have a bit more understanding about the motivations for posts like yours. I get it and don't want you to change.
 

WelshD

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If the pony hates going on one rein in the school its worth trying loose schooling. One of mine wont go one way on the lunge and always trots and he hates the pessoa with a passion.

I now loose school him in a contained area and he walks calmly round the outside with a draw rein substitute Pessoa arrangement like this (scroll down) http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?409650-Long-and-Low

he is miles calmer loose and really concentrates, its not endless circles and I can really send him forward if he tries to turn round

This may well help with balance, not very interesting granted but with a short set up time (minimal equipment) its easy to fit short sessions in
 

LizzieWizzie

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DD wasn't attacked or bullied. Post fourteen was the first overtly critical post, and imo justified by the information which had been given. The OPs respond at post fifteen was to say 'And same old bored bags having a dig' And he/she went on to make other disparaging remarks.

Really LizzieWizzie, cut the lectures out , please.

Post two starts aggressively from the outset and para two begins 'sorry if that sounds harsh'.

Continues from there in a mostly harsh and accusatory fashion. With some scattered constructive comments.

You should be wanting people to listen to your advice not turn them away and making them run scared. How is that for the welfare of any horse?

Joyce am I correct in thinking you're now 'telling me off' for asking you all to just be nice? Wow! Get attacked for everything around here it seems!
 

YorksG

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My reason for not being as eloquent as I could GG is quite simply that I get sick to the back teeth of seeing people put their horse's welfare (and in this case their child's) on the line, yet vehemently refuse to accept it, despite asking publicly for advice. The same pattern happens over and over again in these scenarios - the story alters as the thread goes on to make it more 'acceptable' what they are doing.

I should learn to perhaps dress it up in tinsel and lights to make it more palatable in future...
I wouldn't bother dressing it up, unless you agree with the people who start the threads, then you are wrong and a bully :( I still can't quite understand why people insist that they only want replies to part of the story!
 

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Hi OP, you came across as really defensive hence the multitude of posts. Like many have said I would recommend a full and comprehensive vet check before anyone rides her again, especially a child.
IMHO for a such a young horse to havehad 4 foals and now being worked as if getting eventing fit is wrong... Id turn
Horse out for at least 6 mths.
 
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joycec

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Post two starts aggressively from the outset and para two begins 'sorry if that sounds harsh'.

Continues from there in a mostly harsh and accusatory fashion. With some scattered constructive comments.

You should be wanting people to listen to your advice not turn them away and making them run scared. How is that for the welfare of any horse?

Joyce am I correct in thinking you're now 'telling me off' for asking you all to just be nice? Wow! Get attacked for everything around here it seems!

I just wondered how many times you were going to carry on posting the same lecture over and over again. You have not been attacked, don't be so over dramatic!

I don't agree with your definition of aggressive posts, either. And frankly it was bound to go the way it did one the OP called posters old bags and then mocked our knowledge and care of our horses.
 
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Devonshire dumpling

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My reason for not being as eloquent as I could GG is quite simply that I get sick to the back teeth of seeing people put their horse's welfare (and in this case their child's) on the line, yet vehemently refuse to accept it, despite asking publicly for advice. The same pattern happens over and over again in these scenarios - the story alters as the thread goes on to make it more 'acceptable' what they are doing.

I should learn to perhaps dress it up in tinsel and lights to make it more palatable in future...

Not at all moomin, you should probably learn to not tar everyone with the same brush, you are guilty of thst and twisting my words or perhaps you just misunderstood, or perhaps you just think you are right no matter what. I do spend loads of money on my horses and they are insured so I can investigate if necessary, it's actually very insulting, it's not about money, I trust my vet, and I trust my physio , they would. They wouldn't dress anything up in tinsel and be the first people to speak out if they felt I was doing wrong.

They out their hands on the horse and know her, and know their profession, there is second to none and it's very unfair for people to say they know more. I am actually in the veterinary trade with over 25 yrs experience I know alot of vets and understand some are not as good as others or specialise in different fields, believe me my vet is fantastic, I think perhaps instead if thinking you need to dress it uo a bit more, perhaps you should hold your sharp tongue. I could pick 100 posts thwt you have written that were far from constructive or helpful.

There are lots of uneducated people with no knowledge of horses, but they need to learn somewhere, friendly advice will go a lot further and more hores and people can be helped .

Three people offered constructive advice , Amy, gg and lizzie, that's sad out of so many people who might have had something useful to say, I haven't gained anything from the majority other than high blood pressure .

Actually why am I even wasting my energy? You will come back with something ridiculous and we are going around in circles.
 

Devonshire dumpling

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If the pony hates going on one rein in the school its worth trying loose schooling. One of mine wont go one way on the lunge and always trots and he hates the pessoa with a passion.

I now loose school him in a contained area and he walks calmly round the outside with a draw rein substitute Pessoa arrangement like this (scroll down) http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?409650-Long-and-Low

he is miles calmer loose and really concentrates, its not endless circles and I can really send him forward if he tries to turn round

This may well help with balance, not very interesting granted but with a short set up time (minimal equipment) its easy to fit short sessions in

That's doable as my instructor has a round pen , thankyou !!
 

_GG_

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Not at all moomin, you should probably learn to not tar everyone with the same brush, you are guilty of thst and twisting my words or perhaps you just misunderstood, or perhaps you just think you are right no matter what. I do spend loads of money on my horses and they are insured so I can investigate if necessary, it's actually very insulting, it's not about money, I trust my vet, and I trust my physio , they would. They wouldn't dress anything up in tinsel and be the first people to speak out if they felt I was doing wrong.

They out their hands on the horse and know her, and know their profession, there is second to none and it's very unfair for people to say they know more. I am actually in the veterinary trade with over 25 yrs experience I know alot of vets and understand some are not as good as others or specialise in different fields, believe me my vet is fantastic, I think perhaps instead if thinking you need to dress it uo a bit more, perhaps you should hold your sharp tongue. I could pick 100 posts thwt you have written that were far from constructive or helpful.

There are lots of uneducated people with no knowledge of horses, but they need to learn somewhere, friendly advice will go a lot further and more hores and people can be helped .

Three people offered constructive advice , Amy, gg and lizzie, that's sad out of so many people who might have had something useful to say, I haven't gained anything from the majority other than high blood pressure .

Actually why am I even wasting my energy? You will come back with something ridiculous and we are going around in circles.

Moomin1 apologised to you. Check previous page as I think it would be worth apologising back perhaps.
 

LizzieWizzie

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It's really not hard to be direct and constructive with your opinions and advice without being inflammatory. To ask the right questions and give what you think is the right advice. No one needs to get a nasty at all, or do they need to be just be agreeable.

Just have a little tact perhaps.
 

LizzieWizzie

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I just wondered how many times you were going to carry on posting the same lecture over and over again. You have not been attacked, don't be so over dramatic!

I don't agree with your definition of aggressive posts, either. And frankly it was bound to go the way it did one the OP called posters old bags and then mocked our knowledge and care of our horses.


You're after me now! Woah!! It's almost funny! I rest my case! (Exasperated!)

And as you yourself just said previously OP got flustered at around post 14/15 after a barrage!
 

Moomin1

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Not at all moomin, you should probably learn to not tar everyone with the same brush, you are guilty of thst and twisting my words or perhaps you just misunderstood, or perhaps you just think you are right no matter what. I do spend loads of money on my horses and they are insured so I can investigate if necessary, it's actually very insulting, it's not about money, I trust my vet, and I trust my physio , they would. They wouldn't dress anything up in tinsel and be the first people to speak out if they felt I was doing wrong.

They out their hands on the horse and know her, and know their profession, there is second to none and it's very unfair for people to say they know more. I am actually in the veterinary trade with over 25 yrs experience I know alot of vets and understand some are not as good as others or specialise in different fields, believe me my vet is fantastic, I think perhaps instead if thinking you need to dress it uo a bit more, perhaps you should hold your sharp tongue. I could pick 100 posts thwt you have written that were far from constructive or helpful.

There are lots of uneducated people with no knowledge of horses, but they need to learn somewhere, friendly advice will go a lot further and more hores and people can be helped .

Three people offered constructive advice , Amy, gg and lizzie, that's sad out of so many people who might have had something useful to say, I haven't gained anything from the majority other than high blood pressure .

Actually why am I even wasting my energy? You will come back with something ridiculous and we are going around in circles.

Right. My advice to you would be perhaps ask your vet about the medical outcome of a rotational fall then, as they are usually best placed to advise. All the best.
 

joycec

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You're after me now! Woah!! It's almost funny! I rest my case! (Exasperated!)

And as you yourself just said previously OP got flustered at around post 14/15 after a barrage!


'After you'? How much more melodramatic can you get?

OP did not get flustered, she got personally abusive, and continued to be personally abusive in later posts.
 

Goldenstar

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Ok , my penneth ,
Never let a clumsy horse wear a set of shoes for than five weeks .
I would guess something is more wrong with this horse that weakness and a full work up is what's called for .
I would not allow anyone to ride the horse again you are extremely fortunate OP that your child is not injured .
If the work up finds no reason for the tripping / falling I would not ride the horse again it's not worth the risk .
My last hunter started tripping and fell once on the flat he had KS .
 

millikins

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We owned a gangly, clumsy youngster who had 3 witnessed falls in 13 mnths. Not rotational but lost his back end and went down flat on his side. After extensive vet and physio (walking in long lines, massage, H wave), problem diagnosed as old hip/sacroiliac damage meaning he was unable to put weight through his R hip. Sadly he was condemned as unsafe to ride and PTS.
 

JFTDWS

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I've never had a rotational fall in canter (only once, over a fence, on my idiot youngster), but my old cob had form for tripping and used to sometimes go flat on his face in canter, land on his feet and carry on (in fact, he used to come up faster than he went down...). Maybe it's because I was a very death wish-fueled teenager when this happened, but I don't think we ever panicked about it - we did discuss it with my farrier, who wasn't overly concerned, and possibly with a vet, but we just accepted he was a bit of an idiot. He went on to jump xc and sj, TREC, play horseball and all sorts. 15 milers were short hacks for us in his prime. He's made it to his 20s without any evidence of any relevant welfare issues, so I doubt it was terribly cruel of us to not investigate it. But maybe I'm wrong, I can't say I've ever really thought about it before I read this thread.

That said, a full rotational is a bit different...
 

windand rain

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I think you would find that a lot of horses are more than capable of doing 15 mile hacks straight from the field in all paces if they are living out but that is beside the point this mare has an issue with tripping without seeing her my guess would be she is on her forehand and not bringing her hind end under her. If she is weak and unless she has some outstanding problems from foaling at an early age and driving at what I would assume to be a very early age, schooling is what she needs to build up her strength and get her to use her back end. I what I don't agree with is that she can have a weak hind leg which to me means she is lame and should therefore be treated as such. Investigations are ongoing so hopefully will throw some light on things but at a guess she has been damaged before the OP got her and will therefore either need long term rehab and treatment or to be retired as a field ornament/PTS Whatever caused the fall today she is evidently not safe to ride by anyone never mind a child so until she can work on both reins evenly with no weakness I would stay off her back and work with her from the ground either free or on long lines I am no fan of lunging or Pessoa treatment especially for horses already on the forehand
 

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My sons horse did have a rotational fall in canter, which was bizarre to watch & thankfully over so quickly there wasn't time to be scared. This was when he was first in work, and he had a habit of stumbling.
It was partly because he was in the process of having his feet rebalanced. Partly because he was incredibly on the forehand, and a big front heavy horse, and partly because my son had thrown the reins at him & not helped him balance himself

He's outgrown it, and it was not something which ever had medical implications, really rather requiring correct work & better riding.

A vet check will show you if your mare has an issue which may be causing this. It could be that she is unbalancing herself compensating for a wrench or injury from her last fall.

I must confess given that the endurance trial for TB types at 3 day events is 15 odd miles, I actually think that across moorland terrain at all paces, it is a hard days work for a heavy ish cob. I would want my horse to be 100% to do it, sounds like there is something niggling there with yours OP.
 
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