MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
I've never understood why parents can't/won't stick small kids in large dog crates and older ones in stables with top doors shut.
Horses and having children on yards....thoughts?
- Thread starter Farma
- Start date
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Twice a week is not occasionally or rarely it falls firmly under the regularly category.
The yard is no children and a lot of people like that about yards. You chose to exclude youraelf by having a child.
Stop wingeing about it and find somewhere that does allow children.
Just because people choose to breed does not mean they have the right to inflict said child on everyone else.
There are very few truely adult spaces left due to people throwing out the descrimination card, so now you cant even go to very fancy restaurants without potentially being faced with screaming children!
The yard is no children and a lot of people like that about yards. You chose to exclude youraelf by having a child.
Stop wingeing about it and find somewhere that does allow children.
Just because people choose to breed does not mean they have the right to inflict said child on everyone else.
There are very few truely adult spaces left due to people throwing out the descrimination card, so now you cant even go to very fancy restaurants without potentially being faced with screaming children!
SpottyMare
Well-Known Member
I actually find this quite scary, and am surprised the venue allowed it. If anything had happened, it is unlikely that their insurance would have paid out, as insurance covers unforseen accidents where accepted protocols have been followed, whereas allowing a child in a buggy on a x country course could be said to be negligent.
To answer your first post, I don't think it is quite so cut and dried as yards banning children because they don't like them, and I find it interesting that you've moved from one area where they were generally accepted, to another where they aren't - could be something happened locally to cause it.
Other reasons could be as simple as the yard owners starting to look more closely at health and safety as society becomes increasingly more litigious (see the article on h&h about the woman who tried to sue her yard owner because she bought a horse that her YO had advised her not to buy and then she got bucked off it 2 months later), insurance premiums, reputation, or that they have been bitten by aforementioned feral/unsupervised children breaking things, causing problems or getting injured.
If it is the latter, then you can't really blame the YO for protecting their business, and the only answer to that is a blanket ban.
In the interests of full disclosure I am childless by choice and on a yard that children frequent and I'm fine with that - I even speak to them
They are all kids that are interested in horses though, and want to be there (including the toddler).
Rowreach
👀
My GP once regaled me with the story of his neighbour, who used to tie her children onto their ponies to make sure they wouldn't fall off when she went out shopping. Two birds with one stone .....
Rowreach
👀
On a more serious note, and speaking as a mum who ran a livery yard/taught/competed all through their younger years, and made damned sure they were properly looked after, I am really shocked at some of the examples of how people "manage" their young children while doing horses.
Leading three "quiet" horses in and out of the field while pushing a buggy????
Going XC schooling with your baby in a pram???
Asking the comp secretary to babysit while you compete??? (I know what I'd have told her ...)
Aside from anything else, if something happens to you while you are riding/competing/turning your horse out, who the heck is going to look after your baby??
This thread is an eye opener for sure.
Leading three "quiet" horses in and out of the field while pushing a buggy????
Going XC schooling with your baby in a pram???
Asking the comp secretary to babysit while you compete??? (I know what I'd have told her ...)
Aside from anything else, if something happens to you while you are riding/competing/turning your horse out, who the heck is going to look after your baby??
This thread is an eye opener for sure.
luckyoldme
Well-Known Member
That's actually worse than what the mccanns did.
Jack110
Active Member
Why is it only 'mums' get to be upset, I have had many occasions ruined by other peoples badly parented children. Meals out, plane rides, if they intruded on time with my horses I would have words. Children are a choice, other people are under no obligation to deal with or put up with them. I have previously stated some women can't have them and suffer silently, while having to fend of smug comments from mums who say the most hurtful things.
SadKen
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread!
For me, the above says that the mum wanted to compete so much that she put her own desires above the safety of her child - it isn't sensible to leave a child with a stranger IMO.
How about: if the yard rule was no turnout during winter months, then your horse needed 24 hour turnout, would you be shocked when the yard wasn't supportive of the request?
This for me has nothing to do with the kiddy element (I like kids, especially keen ones). It's as simple as: if a yard has certain rules, you need to stick to them, or find a new yard; you can't expect flexibility to allow you to break any rule. There shouldn't be any emotion involved. The only reason that there is, in this thread, is because children provoke emotional responses (whether you like them or loathe them!).
For me, the above says that the mum wanted to compete so much that she put her own desires above the safety of her child - it isn't sensible to leave a child with a stranger IMO.
How about: if the yard rule was no turnout during winter months, then your horse needed 24 hour turnout, would you be shocked when the yard wasn't supportive of the request?
This for me has nothing to do with the kiddy element (I like kids, especially keen ones). It's as simple as: if a yard has certain rules, you need to stick to them, or find a new yard; you can't expect flexibility to allow you to break any rule. There shouldn't be any emotion involved. The only reason that there is, in this thread, is because children provoke emotional responses (whether you like them or loathe them!).
luckyoldme
Well-Known Member
That poster said she was taking a risk but it was a calculated one? I can't believe I read that.
Widgeon
Well-Known Member
I can see why you might be shocked, but surely all of life is a calculated risk? Leaving a baby sleeping on its own in a cot overnight is a calculated risk. It's just a question of where you personally draw the line, and that's going to be different for everyone isn't it? Personally I probably wouldn't bring in horses with a baby in a pram, but judging those who do is surely somewhere on a slippery slope? I agree that inflicting the care of your children on other unwilling adults is unacceptable (and totally agree that YOs are probably rightly worried about accidents) but I'm a bit uncomfortable with the general tone of judging parents for their parenting choices.
Edited to say, I didn't mean that to read as "I'm offended by your thoughts and am going to retreat to my safe space"! You are of course entitled to hold your opinion!
pansymouse
Well-Known Member
Remember for some of us childlessness isn't a choice and being in the company of people who appear to be casual/neglectful parents is upsetting.
luckyoldme
Well-Known Member
this is the thing though, the minute anyone expresses an opinion about anything these days we are classed as judgemental. If you follow your thoughts through then its judgemental to say that its madness to push a pram whilst leading a horse. It might end up with a pram underneath a horse (unless the owner is the one person in the whole world who can say for sure that her horses will never ever behave in an unexpected way no matter what the circumstances are) but thats a risk worth taking? And whos risk is it to take anyways? Chances are its not going to be the mother who gets hurt if it all went wrong.
AlohaCob
Member
This times a million. Unsupervised kids on yards are pretty much what the majority on this thread have issues with. I had one 6 year old girl run up behind my mare while I was hand grazing her screaming at me not to let her eat grass. I had to get between mare's hind and child to tell her not to run and scream. Luckily, my horse was having a good day...sometimes that would spook her and other times she did not care. Where was parent? Who the hell knows? I would not want my horse to hurt anyone, period. The horse i now have is extremely chilled, but the barn he is at luckily has rules that people follow. Children under 16 not allowed without a parent. Running around like a lunatic is not tolerated. The kids there are well behaved, ergo, I personally have no problem. At the other place? I had a major problem and left. Why this opinion and many others like it would upset mums makes me shake my head. And yes, I am a 'non-breeder'. Nice term. Very 'respectful'.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
The term ‘non-breeders’ was adapted from a statement made by one of the self confessed ‘child haters’ on here!
We have a large livery yard and I have to say the adults with a vast lack of knowledge dishing out ill informed advice to others infuriate me way more than any of the children.
We have a large livery yard and I have to say the adults with a vast lack of knowledge dishing out ill informed advice to others infuriate me way more than any of the children.
SO1
Well-Known Member
If she really was on her own that is not only dangerous but selfish. If she had fallen off and hurt herself and not been able to drive the lorry back home not only would she have needed to find someone to help her with her horse but also would have had to find someone to look after her baby until help came.
She would be pushing a buggy and leading a horse at regular intervals to move on the next area as well.
I don't think anyone is saying that it is not possible for people to have children and horses but that they need suitable support so as not to put their child at risk. I expect this eventer was lucky enough to know enough people at competitions who were willing to help her out as if she was on her truly on her own she would be leaving her child unattended out of sight whilst doing the x country phase.
I also agree that people have become more litigious especially with the no win no fee solicitors around and some YO's may be worried that a parent would sue them if the child had a serious accident on the yard. Yards that do accept children should probably have a safeguarding policy. The law also says if a parent leaves a child unsupervised in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health, they can be prosecuted so people do need to think carefully about ensuring children are considered to be properly supervised and not at risk should a horse get loose on the yard.
Sadly the parents that do not supervise their children properly have spoiled it for those that do and perhaps this is leading to more yards not being willing to accept children which is a shame as properly supervised and educated children can be a delight to have around.
She would be pushing a buggy and leading a horse at regular intervals to move on the next area as well.
I don't think anyone is saying that it is not possible for people to have children and horses but that they need suitable support so as not to put their child at risk. I expect this eventer was lucky enough to know enough people at competitions who were willing to help her out as if she was on her truly on her own she would be leaving her child unattended out of sight whilst doing the x country phase.
I also agree that people have become more litigious especially with the no win no fee solicitors around and some YO's may be worried that a parent would sue them if the child had a serious accident on the yard. Yards that do accept children should probably have a safeguarding policy. The law also says if a parent leaves a child unsupervised in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health, they can be prosecuted so people do need to think carefully about ensuring children are considered to be properly supervised and not at risk should a horse get loose on the yard.
Sadly the parents that do not supervise their children properly have spoiled it for those that do and perhaps this is leading to more yards not being willing to accept children which is a shame as properly supervised and educated children can be a delight to have around.
zaminda
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with anyone on a yard as long as they are polite, don't take things that don't belong to them and don't jeopardize their own or my safety. That applies regardless of age. We have a lady on the yard with the most difficult set of kids who just run riot. They are better when horses are around but compared to some of the stories on this thread they are mild.
I think a few people have taken umbrage at the idea not everyone wants children on a yard but I can understand why many don't. I don't see why people should be expected to baby sit other people's children or always be on the look out when they are trying to enjoy their hobby.
I come from a non horsey family and got my own as a teenager. There were lots of kids on the yard but we were expected to be useful and polite. Much has changed since then as kids appear to ignore adults far more these days and there is an overriding sense of entitlement within society.
I think a few people have taken umbrage at the idea not everyone wants children on a yard but I can understand why many don't. I don't see why people should be expected to baby sit other people's children or always be on the look out when they are trying to enjoy their hobby.
I come from a non horsey family and got my own as a teenager. There were lots of kids on the yard but we were expected to be useful and polite. Much has changed since then as kids appear to ignore adults far more these days and there is an overriding sense of entitlement within society.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I used to enjoy reading the eventer's blogs. Well written and very amusing. She always seemed to have help with child care at whilst at the competitions that she reported on. Maybe the instances of the unattended baby on the xc course and a child being thrust at a show secretary may have been isolated ones for her. However, I certainly have come across similar instances of fiercely focussed parents who are determined to keep on with their pre child activities despite lack of suitable back up and child care.
I find the term 'non breeders' to be pretty offensive. It certainly wasn't just the child free who are unhappy about aspects of children on livery yards.
I find the term 'non breeders' to be pretty offensive. It certainly wasn't just the child free who are unhappy about aspects of children on livery yards.
scats
Well-Known Member
This thread has reminded me of a lady who arrived at my old yard when I was a teenager. She had a baby who was about 9 months old and regularly locked him in his push chair in the stable while she went hacking for anywhere up to an hour.
Despite the fact that I'm not particularly child friendly, me and my friends started offering to look after him for her while she went as it just seemed such an awful thing to do!
Despite the fact that I'm not particularly child friendly, me and my friends started offering to look after him for her while she went as it just seemed such an awful thing to do!
Smogul
Well-Known Member
The arrogance of that is breath taking. A secretary at any event is not there as an unpaid baby sitter.
Fragglerock
Well-Known Member
We were hacking at the weekend and a small child had a large branch and tried to hit our horses - his mum told him not to and he asked why not - charming child! Anyway that was off topic but having read this I'm glad I have my own place and don't have to put up with other mardy adults/children/dogs.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
I think my answer to a kid saying why not would be -because you will get a flying lesson if the horse kicks out and gets you.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Ermm as she is no longer here to clarify herself I do feel that it is worth pointing out that from her posts I thought that HotToTrot did know the secretary at Norton Heath quite well, and she did babysit on more than one occasion (and knowing lots of show secretaries they would not have been shy in saying no if they were not ok with it!)
ihatework
Well-Known Member
And to be honest she probably wouldn’t thank anyone for third party tittle tattle when she isn’t here to defend herself! Not aimed at you Ester btw.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
No, I was finding it a bit uncomfortable analysing the childcare choices of a once fairly prolific member on here, who was often writing for dramatic effect.
Farma
Well-Known Member
No I wasn't trying to throw her under the bus here, more use the examples of her managing her childcare whilst competing and having horses and making light of it! The secretary didn't mind at all, it was just mentioned above she always had people with her to manage the children and she didn't always have help. I was always in admiration of how she managed and I didn't even have any children at the time, I certainly didn't mean for her to be under scrutiny I just knew her as a mother who juggled both before I had my own. She got on fine and nobody minded that I know of!
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criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Lucky she agreed. I've had them reluctant if I want to leave a high viz tabard with them when I've hacked to a show and taken it off to compete.
Widgeon
Well-Known Member
Yes, fair point. That's why I like this forum - because at its best, what you are getting is peoples' (relatively) unfiltered views, which makes quite a nice change from "real life" where you so often have to keep your mouth shut for fear of being told that your opinion is not valid because it is unkind/judgmental/excessively privileged etc etc. Personally I think it would be judgmental to say that ever pushing a pram whilst leading a horse makes you a bad parent, but that's different to expressing the opinion that pushing a pram whilst leading a horse is a mad thing to do. Anyway it's a fine line I suppose, and perhaps difficult to explain in a forum post. I will keep quiet now I think as I didn't mean to derail the conversation - sorry!
Farma
Well-Known Member
Yes you are so right! again without derailing that is the fear with the change to the bd forum (people having to use real names now rather than an alias) as that will take away the sense of the unfiltered view points and everyone will be most likely be much more careful and pc!
GemG
Well-Known Member
There's a sad stereotypical and unfair view (in my opinion) displayed by a minority of posters that parents (and mums for some reason in particular?!) should be on Mumsnet where they belong, give up horses as after all people give up dogs apparently when they have a baby, these mums care of nothing other than their blue eyed boy/girl and everyone should cater for them, their kids do no wrong, place their children in danger, disrupt their schooling sessions, etc...
Well, that may be the case in a minority of parents, but definitely not all. Mumsnet... ergh!
I have been childless and non maternal and now have a family (happily) and do my best to bring them up to be decent human beings (as do some other parents too!), so can see it from both sides, but I would feel (rightly or wrongly) unfairly treated if I had to leave somewhere because I brought my children with me sometimes.
Well, that may be the case in a minority of parents, but definitely not all. Mumsnet... ergh!
I have been childless and non maternal and now have a family (happily) and do my best to bring them up to be decent human beings (as do some other parents too!), so can see it from both sides, but I would feel (rightly or wrongly) unfairly treated if I had to leave somewhere because I brought my children with me sometimes.
GemG
Well-Known Member
Oh and Maternaventing blog is/was fab.. my heroine! I struggle to find time to keep mine /get mine fit, let alone compete at decent level BE ...!