Horses and having children on yards....thoughts?

yhanni said:
Did anyone see the episode of '24 hours in A & E' where a toddler had been kicked in the head by a horse? By their own horse as I recall. The child survived but it was touch and go. I don't like children particularly but would be devastated if one was injured by my horse. There is a fair chance, in this ridiculously litigious world, that the horse owner would somehow be held accountable as well.
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Yes I saw that and thought the same thing. And not just litiguous, it would be a natural response to look for someone else to blame and if it was someone else's horse, then that's where the finger would point.

I mentioned before a few cases on child friendly yards where small children had run under horses, grabbed their legs or tried to come in the school when a horse is being lunged.
Another couple to add:- child getting hold of the knife used to opens bales and jumping around the bales and running round the yard carrying it. Knife was in theory out of reach but child climbed on a bale to reach it.
Going in to the feed room and opening a bottle of ACP to play with - child proof lid clearly not child proof enough. Poured it in to a feed bin which had to be thrown away as we couldn't guarantee we'd separated out all the tablets.

Even it the child is in a pushchair or pram although contained isn't safe if parked on the yard, horses can get spooked and break free, a couple of weeks ago a horse at our yard jumped a gate into the yard and careered around a bit, usually in these cases the only casualty is a wheelbarrow but could easily be a pushchair.

Yards can be dangerous places, people who have children make an effort to child proof their home but this process hasn't happened to yards.
 
Arzada said:
If people won't safeguard their children, dogs etc then it is up to others to keep them safe.
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You have got to be joking. Are you seriously suggesting that a vet, whose primary duty of care is to her equine patient and human client, should be constantly looking over her shoulder to make sure some random unsupervised child isn't putting itself in danger?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
But perhaps, rather than putting the child at risk, Mum should pay for assistance on the livery yard at the times when no childcare is available. Certainly what no parent should do, is expect others on the yard to take responsibility for their child, when the parent has taken the horse back to the field, several hundred yards down the road, or gone out for a hack, or is in the arena concentrating on schooling, unless there is a proper arrangement for someone to do so. The children are the parents' responsibility.
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Friend worked in a yard where livery would regularly leave child while she went a hack, expecting the staff to supervise. This stopped when YO presented her with a bill for childminding. Seemed perfectly fair to me.
 
Farma said:
Who ever said someone should take responsibility for someone elses child? I take mine on occasion and he is entirely in my care, I pay a fortune for services but I couldn't pay entirely for full livery and I don't want to. I have never ridden with my child there although I have heard of parents that do it isn't something I feel comfortable doing. I have to do minimal jobs at times and go again, he loves and I love to see him enjoying it.
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Get over yourself.

Face it... some people will tolerate/encourage kids on a livery yard. Some wont. Just because you feel put out because not everyone has the same opinion as you, it doesn't mean to say you are right.
 
sjp1 said:
Well we have two yard owners children on your yard, lots of dogs that race past horses legs barking as if they are going to kill something and the relief lady who does the yard when YO is away has a 3 year old who has no fear of horses. YO's children will often run screaming down the yard behind our horses, dogs often do the same barking at nothing but at full speed, 3 year old brings tiny plastic buckets of water up to horses noses because he just loves them and has no fear and to be absolutely honest ................ I think it is a fabulous despooker for horses - when mine first moved to the yard he was on high alert - I noticed a couple of days ago that five mastiff dogs ran full spelt past his back legs whilst he was tied up barking as though the devil was about to enter the gate - and he didn't move a muscle. Personally .............. I think in this day an age horses have got to get used to everything, and I personally am pleased that at my yard, children screeching past him cause him no reaction and nor do dogs or bicycles, or the other myriad of stuff that comes with kids. Horses are very kind with small children and for me, I don't have an issue with it at all - in fact, I am almost grateful that he has got so much calmer with so much 'stuff' going on around him.
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I agree it is good for horses to get used to all sorts of things but they are still horses and unpredictable. OH had a horse who loved people, tolerated absolutely anything and was incredibly careful where he put his feet. However, he exploded one day bucking and kicking out while tied up outside. He had been bitten by a horse fly. Horses are dangerous enough for knowledgeable adults. Why bring children in and expect other people to look after them?
 
Casey76 said:
Get over yourself.

Face it... some people will tolerate/encourage kids on a livery yard. Some wont. Just because you feel put out because not everyone has the same opinion as you, it doesn't mean to say you are right.
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Why be so damn rude, I haven't been horrible or told anyone to 'get over themselves' because they don't share the same opinion as me, I said I was shocked as over the years I hadn't ever come across it having been on many yards and worked on many yards, never minded anyone's kids and never thought they shouldn't bring them along, it does make you feel excluded and unwelcome within the horsey community and I wasn't prepared for it when i had my own, now i have a set up where i can take him now and again and he is welcome. I don't need to get over myself, I do need to get over the sanctimonious attitude of some people though. Snotty comments like yours are the reason some horse people get a bad name for being bitchy as that's exactly how you have come across.
 
We keep my daughters lead rein pony on a DIY livery yard 5 minutes from home - no horse for me so don't have the problem of what to do for childcare while I am riding at least! If she is riding then obviously she is there with me but I try to leave her at home with her Dad if she isn't riding or if I am going to be doing more than a muck out/bring in/feed in the field, especially when the weather is bad as I know the yard is likely to be busier with people bringing in. I am the only one on the yard with a young child who comes on a regular basis but there are others who occasionally bring grandchildren. The totally non horsey yard owner/farmer also has 2 "free range" kids who are similar in age to my own and who are the ones more likely like cause disruption with bikes/hula hoops/banging gates and doors, but if they are there at the same time as us I will always ask if they want to help my daughter with grooming or chores and try to educate them a bit more about being around horses. All the other liveries are great with my daughter being around and happy to let her assist with mixing feeds, washing buckets, sweeping up etc. even if it means I get left doing our chores on my own as she would rather be helping them than me! If she was running around, playing, screaming and generally not paying attention to anything horsey I can imagine it would be a different kettle of fish.
 
We have children on our yard from less than 2 upto 15 year olds, and to be honest the older ones can be the worst!

We are quite lucky that our ladies who bring their children to the yard watch them closely and do not let them run riot.

I have a 6 year old son and very rarely does anyone even realise that he is there, as he sits outside of my stable on his tablet quietly whilst I am there, or he is in the stable helping me muck out. He goes into the barn and helps me and other liveries fill their nets and doesn't kick up a fuss or get in anyones way, which is the same for most of the younger ones.

We have three teenagers, one of whom is a nightmare, doesn't tip the barrow where she should then lies about it, takes the tack room keys home or doesn't lock the tack room up at all, leaves the barn messy, doesn't put away jumps, doesn't sweep up after herself, just a general nightmare but the other two are very mature for their ages and well behaved.

It totally depends on the parents to me, we don't have dogs on the yard as the YO dogs aren't great with other dogs.

I applied for a yard a little closer to home where they do not accept children, even though I assured them my son would be happy in the car on his tablet or doing his homework on the days where my husband isn't at home to have him they still wouldn't let me move to the yard which I think is ridiculous!
 
Maybe you should have posted this on mumsnet so you could have had the agreement that's it's your god given right to bring your spawn everywhere, even places that specifically state they are not allowed.

I would never moan at children being on a child-friendly yard, but in return I wouldn't expect parents to moan about children not being allowed on a child-free yard. It's not a difficult concept.
 
Merlod said:
Maybe you should have posted this on mumsnet so you could have had the agreement that's it's your god given right to bring your spawn everywhere, even places that specifically state they are not allowed.

I would never moan at children being on a child-friendly yard, but in return I wouldn't expect parents to moan about children not being allowed on a child-free yard. It's not a difficult concept.
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Like^
 
I have a good 'off-road' buggy and three well behaved horses- every morning and evening my toddler sits in his buggy to turn out and bring in (10 minute walk to the field). I park him safely by the gate while I put on head collars.
yes there is a risk, but it is a calculated one, and I could not leave him in the car when I walk 10 minutes to the field and then back again.

I rent a field and barn- there are a few other people who can occasionally help, but not all the time. We have a routine and it just about works. He then has toys and snacks in the barn with me while I muck out.

I also do 2 horses down the road who are a bit more lively to lead to and from the field, and their field is less than a 5 minute walk, so for safety my toddler has to wait in the car then

I would never ever (even when much older) leave my child on a yard while I hacked out!!!
 
Smogul said:
You have got to be joking. Are you seriously suggesting that a vet, whose primary duty of care is to her equine patient and human client, should be constantly looking over her shoulder to make sure some random unsupervised child isn't putting itself in danger?
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I had to go back to work when my first baby was 2 weeks old (the perils of being a self employed YO). I remember one day I'd booked the vet to sedate a horse for clipping. I'd picked a time in between scheduled baby feeds, but the vet was delayed due to an emergency, and got to me just in time for feeding. He jabbed the horse, I clipped it, and he sat in the office with the baby and a bottle :D He did draw the line at nappy changing though ...
 
minesadouble said:
Wow, I think it's a good job that some of the non-breeders on here haven't bred as the lack of good manners of some is astounding!
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Or perhaps we are sick of the arrogant, self-entitled opinions of those with children - that we should all be expected to bend over backwards and change rules to accomodate them. I'm sorry but if a yard is "no children" then they need to accept that, not start a thread about and how hard done by they are and how mean "child-free" people are.

And if you want to talk about lack of manners, try giving a tour of a yard advertised as "no children" to a potential new livery (all in all about an hour of my time on my day off) to then be told she loves it, but she would need to bring her children. Rules are rules and I was gobsmacked that she would fail to disclose this at the initial communication and try to get her foot in the door first by waiting til after the viewing.
 
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minesadouble said:
Wow, I think it's a good job that some of the non-breeders on here haven't bred as the lack of good manners of some is astounding!
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And it’s a pity some of the breeders have bred as they seem to be full of self importance and think it’s compulsory for other people to put up with their badly behaved children!
 
Merlod said:
Or perhaps we are sick of the arrogant, self-entitled opinions of those with children - that we should all be expected to bend over backwards and change rules to accomodate them. I'm sorry but if a yard is "no children" then they need to accept that, not start a thread about and how hard done by they are and how mean "child-free" people are.
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Wow just wow, so I am arrogant and self entitled because I hadn't come across any child free yards before moving and struggled to find somewhere in a new area, struggled with the idea that a lot of horse people didn't want children on yards at all? I asked for opinions because it shocked me, I cant lie it did because I hadn't seen it before, maybe it is more apparent to me because i work with horses so i am on so many yards with so many kids, I didn't say I was hard done by and I never called anyone mean, nor did i say they should change their rules, you have spewed this inflated version of vitriol all by yourself. That says a lot more about you than anyone else.

What i will mention without naming is the volume of private messages I have had from this thread from mums that have found comments upsetting but don't wish to get involved in the thread, purely because, i imagine they don't want to face some of these type of comments.
 
Farma said:
Wow just wow, so I am arrogant and self entitled because I hadn't come across any child free yards before moving and struggled to find somewhere in a new area, struggled with the idea that a lot of horse people didn't want children on yards at all? I asked for opinions because it shocked me, I cant lie it did because I hadn't seen it before, maybe it is more apparent to me because i work with horses so i am on so many yards with so many kids, I didn't say I was hard done by and I never called anyone mean, nor did i say they should change their rules, you have spewed this inflated version of vitriol all by yourself. That says a lot more about you than anyone else.

What i will mention without naming is the volume of private messages I have had from this thread from mums that have found comments upsetting but don't wish to get involved in the thread, purely because, i imagine they don't want to face some of these type of comments.
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Thing is, wether you are a child lover, a child hater or somewhere in between surely you can see and appreciate that a toddler on a livery yard is a liability waiting to happen? You need eyes in the back of your head at all times. With babies you can strap them in their buggy and put them somewhere safe. With older kids they have the ability to follow instructions to help keep them safe. But with toddlers, even well parented ones, they are a law unto themselves.

I’m just not sure how you could safely have a toddler and a horse on DIY and try and do the jobs with your horse while managing the toddler. I would never forgive myself if one of my horses hurt someone’s child, but I would be the one distancing myself from anyone bringing a toddler into a yard routinely I’m afraid

And BTW the eventer you eluded it sounded like they always had someone else with them on child minding/herding duties when they were competing
 
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I don't know why mums would find the thread upsetting though. Yes there's the odd comment that is a bit over the top - but let's be honest, you get that on most threads with a contentious subject.

The vast majority of people on here have said that they don't mind children on yards if they are well behaved. I'm not sure why that should upset anyone. Yards that have banned children have likely done it because the YO / staff / clients have had a bad experience - you can't criticise them for that. Criticise the parents who didn't look after their kids properly and ruined it for everyone else maybe, but not the yards.
 
Farma said:
Wow just wow, so I am arrogant and self entitled because I hadn't come across any child free yards before moving and struggled to find somewhere in a new area, struggled with the idea that a lot of horse people didn't want children on yards at all? I asked for opinions because it shocked me, I cant lie it did because I hadn't seen it before, maybe it is more apparent to me because i work with horses so i am on so many yards with so many kids, I didn't say I was hard done by and I never called anyone mean, nor did i say they should change their rules, you have spewed this inflated version of vitriol all by yourself. That says a lot more about you than anyone else.
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Judging by your "shock" and failure throughout this entire thread to understand why not every yard should be accepting of your child and your agreement with some of the more derogatory comments to "non-breeders" it's pretty clear to see the shoe does fit and only confirms more for me that running a child-free yard is the way to go.
 
ihatework said:
Thing is, wether you are a child lover, a child hater or somewhere in between surely you can see and appreciate that a toddler on a livery yard is a liability waiting to happen? You need eyes in the back of your head at all times. With babies you can strap them in their buggy and put them somewhere safe. With older kids they have the ability to follow instructions to help keep them safe. But with toddlers, even well parented ones, they are a law unto themselves.

I’m just not sure how you could safely have a toddler and a horse on DIY and try and do the jobs with your horse while managing the toddler. I would never forgive myself if one of my horses hurt someone’s child, but I would be the one distancing myself from anyone bringing a toddler into a yard routinely I’m afraid

And BTW the eventer you eluded it sounded like they always had someone else with them on child minding/herding duties when they were competing
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Agree with all of this. Having seen first hand the devastation that can be caused by horses and small children not mixing well, I am not a fan of seeing them wondering around yards. It only takes a split second for irreparable damage to be done.

SEL said:
I don't know why mums would find the thread upsetting though. Yes there's the odd comment that is a bit over the top - but let's be honest, you get that on most threads with a contentious subject.

The vast majority of people on here have said that they don't mind children on yards if they are well behaved. I'm not sure why that should upset anyone. Yards that have banned children have likely done it because the YO / staff / clients have had a bad experience - you can't criticise them for that. Criticise the parents who didn't look after their kids properly and ruined it for everyone else maybe, but not the yards.
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100% agree.
 
ihatework said:
Thing is, wether you are a child lover, a child hater or somewhere in between surely you can see and appreciate that a toddler on a livery yard is a liability waiting to happen? You need eyes in the back of your head at all times. With babies you can strap them in their buggy and put them somewhere safe. With older kids they have the ability to follow instructions to help keep them safe. But with toddlers, even well parented ones, they are a law unto themselves.

I’m just not sure how you could safely have a toddler and a horse on DIY and try and do the jobs with your horse while managing the toddler. I would never forgive myself if one of my horses hurt someone’s child, but I would be the one distancing myself from anyone bringing a toddler into a yard routinely I’m afraid

And BTW the eventer you eluded it sounded like they always had someone else with them on child minding/herding duties when they were competing
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Of course I accept that and as I said he only comes with me on occasion, and even then I would only do the minimum while he was with me. I am talking maybe twice a week, I pay for a lot of services but I do like to take him now and again, and he doesn't go near anyone else's horse but my own. As other mums on the thread have quoted they do manage but generally with the minimum to do.

The eventer in question did not have help at all competitions and certainly not always at the yard (she would have done at be events), I met her to go xc schooling once and she had bought her baby in the pram and nobody to help, at a particular local venue she asked the secretary to watch one of them while she did a round I recall. Her instructor used to hang on to them while teaching aswell! Funny enough my instructor said he is happy to babysit while teaching but I personally would be way too distracted, I struggle to ride properly at the best of times!
 
Merlod said:
Or perhaps we are sick of the arrogant, self-entitled opinions of those with children - that we should all be expected to bend over backwards and change rules to accomodate them. I'm sorry but if a yard is "no children" then they need to accept that, not start a thread about and how hard done by they are and how mean "child-free" people are.
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:D Have you read the thread?

I think everyone (including those with children) on this thread agrees that children & yards don't mix all the time. The OP was asking for opinions. By hell she got them...

The only hard-done by people it seems, by the very angry tones from people besieged by the blight of "breeders", in this thread seem to be people like you.

Think comments like this will be making it into H&H this week, judging by how many times it's been tagged and shared. I think it's been an interesting thread to read all round :D
 
Farma said:
Of course I accept that and as I said he only comes with me on occasion, and even then I would only do the minimum while he was with me. I am talking maybe twice a week, I pay for a lot of services but I do like to take him now and again, and he doesn't go near anyone else's horse but my own. As other mums on the thread have quoted they do manage but generally with the minimum to do.

The eventer in question did not have help at all competitions and certainly not always at the yard (she would have done at be events), I met her to go xc schooling once and she had bought her baby in the pram and nobody to help, at a particular local venue she asked the secretary to watch one of them while she did a round I recall. Her instructor used to hang on to them while teaching aswell! Funny enough my instructor said he is happy to babysit while teaching but I personally would be way too distracted, I struggle to ride properly at the best of times!
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Well that’s completely her perogative, but something I would only be tolerant of for a very good friend I’m afraid.

Bear in mind this isn’t about ‘you’ it’s about yard policy. So you can see that having young children on a yard is hazardous. If a yard said ‘only well parented children allowed’ then it would be every child allowed, because let’s face it no mother thinks they would fall into the bad catagory :D I can completely see why some yards are adult only. But yes, I bet there would be a killing to be made if you could set up a child safe yard with minding duties included! London yummy mummy catchment springs to mind. Would be a winner for sure!
 
Farma said:
What i will mention without naming is the volume of private messages I have had from this thread from mums that have found comments upsetting but don't wish to get involved in the thread, purely because, i imagine they don't want to face some of these type of comments.
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Oh the old chestnut of the horde of HHOers who are too wimpy to post in a thread but will pm their support to a beleaguered poster :D :D!!

Btw I am a mum.

Did the eventer leave her baby unattended in a pram whilst she went xc schooling, then?
 
Tiddlypom said:
Oh the old chestnut of the horde of HHOers who are too wimpy to post in a thread but will pm their support to a beleaguered poster :D :D!!

Btw I am a mum.

Did the eventer leave her baby unattended in a pram whilst she went xc schooling, then?
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Is that a normal occurrence then I have no idea??

Yes she pushed her out onto the course in the pram and we all did the fences in the area nearby and then moved elsewhere with the buggy so it was never out of sight! That was just one of many examples, I was just stating that she was quite determined to manage her child and horses and made it very public and received huge support, perhaps that's another reason and experience I had that made the whole situation and lack of acceptance a surprise.
 
At least little 'un was within sight, but it's not something that I would ever had done. What if someone fell off and a loose horse was charging around near the pram?

A former neighbour used to leave her firstborn home alone in his cot when she went out exercising her hunters.
 
Tiddlypom said:
At least little 'un was within sight, but it's not something that I would ever had done. What if someone fell off and a loose horse was charging around near the pram?

A former neighbour used to leave her firstborn home alone in his cot when she went out exercising her hunters.
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No me neither, I know a lot of similar examples, I only want mine to pop in for half hour a few times a week ;)
 
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