Horses for Meat

pastie2 said:
Cattle are taken to market, sheep are taken to market, what makes you think that horses would go directly to the slaughter house. There has to be a market or else how would the meat man know what he was buying. That is if we are treating horses as a food product. They will be produced the same as sheep or cattle. Anyway why are you taking all your horses to slaughter, you sound like a meat dealer already. Are these your horses?
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Please be careful with your accusations - I AM NOT A MEAT dealer. When our horses come to the end of their useful lives then on the whole they go for meat - that is maybe one a year.

Regarding your comment on markets there are already many horse markets/sales here in the UK - and probably the majority of animals sold go for meat. However their should be better regulation and if 'Live' export for meat were banned in the UK this would improve things a lot.

Incidentally horses are already treated as a 'food' product at the sales.
 
Blacklist said:
Fistly my post was on the subject of horse slaughter in the UK - please don't misunderstand me I AM NOT in favour of travelling any 'meat' animal abroad for slaughter

In some cases the conditions are comparable (and not all competition horses are treated well when travelling especially if they are lorry or class fillers). In the UK there are maybe 6 horse slaughter houses so in some cases a horse may have to travel 200 miles plus for slaughter - UK rules state that all animals transported for long distances especially equines have to be properly rested etc whether travelling for competition or otherwise.

All our horses when the time comes travel to Derbyshire 70 miles away for humane slaughter - they live a good life. I would much rather they have one bad day in their lives (if they have to) after a good life than be passed around the auctions and ill-treated.
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I maybe haven't made myself clear what I meant by 'when the time comes' is when the animal comes to the emd of its useful life as a breeding animal or sports horse.
 
perfect11s said:
i dont think you could do it because the frogs and the other continentals have to have it live so they can claim it's french lamb etc after its been in france in their farm for a few weeks... the best thing for horse welfare is to reduce indesciminate breeding of horses both wild and domestic, maybe it would help if there was better grading of stalions and more geldings produced as a result!!
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A valid point but horses are transported dead already after being slaughtered here in the UK and that doesn't seem to bother the French etc
 
Blacklist said:
I am probably opening a LARGE CAN OF WORMS, here goes:

What does the forum think on the subject of eating horses. If a horse has had a good life and is humanely slaughtered here in UK then exported for meat to the Continent - why is the right/wrong? and why don't we eat horseflesh here in the UK. Is is not really any different to an agricultural meat animal - except we ride them.
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I think a big problem is they aren't always slaughtered here and sometimes they are transported in cruel condition etc, not enough water and so on. I dont agree with it tbh. But having said that i dont eat any meat, im a picky eater and just dont like the general idea of eating animals. If you say that its right about horses then you may as well say it about a dog, cat, hamster and so on and so on. I think we dont eat it here as we see it as similar to eating your house pets. I may be wrong but iv had this conversation with people before and most people cant put their finger on the reason but they just think its not quite right.
 
:D
You'll be fine, as many opinions as you want... horses live out, lambing long over, same with calving and the hay is being cut as we speak:D
So, just feeding pigs, walking dogs and seeing as the ****ing arena is still not finished - lazy hacks in the evenings;)
 
I'm vegetarian so do not eat meat. But for those that do, why is there any difference in eating a horse to say a cow or pig? They are all animals, just because one is prettier than the other or some are seen as pets. If you eat a cow then IMO eating a horse/cat/dog or squirrel :D should be no different. I do object to some of the conditions before slaughter, especially where the cats/dogs are concerend, due to the stupid belief that pain (adrenilin) will make the cat/dogs meat taste better so they are (some) tortured. That to me is unnaceptable in this day and age. But i have no issue with meat eaters eating horse. However i do not approve of the distances in which some equines have to travel before slaughter either.
 
Horses - I would not conciously eat horse meat - personal choice don't shoot me down.
Lambs - ours are bought by abbattoir and transported direct.
Cattle - same.
Bull calves are being used a lot for meat now as the price of cattle is so high at the moment so there is a market for them and they mainly end up as burgers and mince.
 
KitKat_89 said:
Pigs? PIGS? Since when were there any pigs? :o

Lazy hacks in my flozzy fetching-wotsit of course! :D Sounds delightful!
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LOL! Since Sunday:D 5 lovely Berkshires and 1 saddleback, they're ever so friendly!
As to horsemeat - it's quite nice actually, somewhere between beef and venison IMO...
I dislike lamb though, quite fond of beef if somebody else cooks it.
 
I mistakenly ate horse meat and felt bad afterwards - it was in Italy and it was pork salami. Only after eating it did I see there was also horse meat in there too. Of course, Italy is the worst for this because they get an awful lot from Romania and Poland so there are long and bad travelling conditions.
 
I would never eat horse meat. Having said that i wouldn't eat any meat as i am a vegetarian.. lol

BUT.. God, i really cannot believe some people. What is it with everyone? Is everyones imaginations so dense they cannot imagine a meal without some poor bloody (no pun intended) animal strung up on it?

We don't have to eat meat... So if your hungry eat something else that didn't have to die.. Yet the public wants meat, so meat they get. Who cares what happens to the animal... We all know the animals are treated horrendously yet when out for dinner meat is on the menu, on every dish at every venue.

Horses are amazing, athletic, stunning animals and as far as I am concerned far too precious to be stuffed in someones mouth!
 
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fumanchu said:
Doncella said:
Historically we have never eaten horsemeat in the UK because as an island race we have never been held to siege except for during the Second World War and into the 1950's when horsemeat was off the ration.
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Horse and donkeys were eaten in WW2...
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Yes and whales, this meat was off the ration and did not take up valuable coupons which is why we almost lost all of our heavy horses and native ponies.
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I actually agree with you, Heidirusso. I think the major problem is with the cheap mass produced/factory farmed food that feeds the appalling conditions in many farms in the UK. I'm specifically thinking of junk food and practically everything in Iceland store - also, it's not a right for people to be able to afford to eat meat everyday. You can be perfectly healthy as a veggie or eating less (good quality) meat. The diet during WW2 was the most healthy this country has seen - and that was rationed.
 
KitKat_89 said:
Not 21 yet ;) please dont age me prematurely. Why?
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sorry for that- i only asked as young students usually have plenty to say,going rather against older folks experience but preferring to go by scientific and endless studies and book reading!! ( i rather thought your question about why are horses special to another poster immature and not the best to ask.)
 
rosiefronfelen said:
sorry for that- i only asked as young students usually have plenty to say,going rather against older folks experience but preferring to go by scientific and endless studies and book reading!! ( i rather thought your question about why are horses special to another poster immature and not the best to ask.)
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Well you make a fair point - I do have plenty to say! I refrained from writing you all an essay on the finer points of my views and opinions though :)

I dont see how my age makes my opinion on this any less valid than yours on this topic though? You know little of what experiance I may or may not have, and I know many 'older folks' who could not care less where thier food came from of how it was produced! I have taken the time to think about my values and have discussed this topic on a few occasions - with people older and far more educated than myself, at least I have views to back up my opinions :/ (and no, on this topic I have not read much about it in books ect - I save that for essays writing. I formed my own opinions.)

Each to thier own, but I stand by my point - and the question was aimed at no particular poster.

(Forgive me if that is not very coherant - I am not feeling my best right now and struggling to string a sentance together but you get my point I think :o )
 
I have not got a problem with eating horsemeat providing the animal has led a humane and good life and is humanely slaughtered. I would happily eat it under these circumstances. I wouldn't be happy with sending carcasses abroad though as I think this would encourage a huge and not necessarily happy industry to be created due to this in the UK.
 
I wasn't going to reply to this, as I wasn't sure how I felt...
Having read most of the replies, I understood what people were saying about the practicalities... I understand that there is no real reason that horses should be treated unlike any other animal, and I understood why people feel that so long as everything is done humanely, there should be no reason not to slaughter a horse for human consumption... I was swaying towards agreeing with these sentiments...
And then I watched this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=435JtOKH2Qo

The above video just changed my thoughts completely! Watching each of those horses walking into that room just made me realise the respect and adoration that those animals deserve, and that I feel for them... not just my own horse, in his field, who I visit every day, but all of them.
I found it painful to watch those animals, trusting and respecting those men, follow them into a room, where, unbeknown to them, they would face an undignified, heartless death.

Horses owe us nothing, we owe them an awful lot. They have fought with us in war, carried our kings and queens, provided us with entertainment and sport, representing our country in doing so, provided transport for ourselves and our goods, provided therapy for the less fortunate or diasabled, provided sanction and enjoyment for many of us on a daily basis, been a part of so many families and children's upbringings, taught so many to ride, taught so many people so much about themselves, they've been a huge part of our history in every way, provided a huge money making industry for the UK, been a loyal companion, a slave and a not to mention a best friend....
Everything I have learnt about them and experienced with them screams at me that they are so much more any other animal... rightly or wrongly. And that, for me, makes all practical argument for horse slaughter go out the window... I just can't make myself feel it is Ok. That is not the respect that these amazing animals deserve after thousands of years of service and companionship they have provided us with! They don't demand our respect, they've earned it, a million times over.

Also, some of you have said things along the lines of 'I agree with it/I'd eat horse meat, but not my horse...'
But what if you were watching that video, and suddenly, for reasons beyond you control (you sold your horse) your horse appeared through that door and the gun was raised to their head.... would that be Ok?! Each of those horses were probably once adored by somebody and had a purpose in life... you have no control over where the horses you sell end up, it's a risk we all take when selling a horse, but I'd like to think that non of the horses I've ever sold would meet such an undignified, heartless end.
 
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But that's kind of the point fumanchu... that's a humane, correct way of doing things, but it still just feels so wrong.
I don't think they're being cruel, or underhanded. I just can't justify it in my head... like I said, all practical argument aside.
 
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been with a horse when it has been put down by injection which was bad enough.....but to watch that was brutal!
I as many of us know this is going on but choose to ignore it and focus on the horse/s we have at home with us that we love and cherish!
If you watch the videos on youtube of american horse slaughter you may feel slightly comforted as ours are clean, quick and precise in comparison.

I think every animal is special - but we choose them to be special in different ways....not everybody likes horses and may view them as some of us "horsey" people would view cows/sheep/pigs etc
I could randomly rant for ages arguing with myself how it is rational and how it isn't but at the end of the day it happens - it just makes me respect, love, honour and enjoy CJ and any other beasties that join my family even more!!
 
heidirusso said:
I would never eat horse meat. Having said that i wouldn't eat any meat as i am a vegetarian.. lol

BUT.. God, i really cannot believe some people. What is it with everyone? Is everyones imaginations so dense they cannot imagine a meal without some poor bloody (no pun intended) animal strung up on it?

We don't have to eat meat... So if your hungry eat something else that didn't have to die.. Yet the public wants meat, so meat they get. Who cares what happens to the animal... We all know the animals are treated horrendously yet when out for dinner meat is on the menu, on every dish at every venue.

Horses are amazing, athletic, stunning animals and as far as I am concerned far too precious to be stuffed in someones mouth!
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I make sure the animals I eat are vegetarian - even the naturally omnivorous pigs.

I don't eat meat at every meal or even every day. I value where my meat has come from because I quite possibly helped it be born, I have ensured it's living conditions are the best I can provide throughout it's life, I have assisted in it's quiet, calm respected death, I make sure it is treated with respect after that death and then finally I cook it and serve it to others of my family who appreciate where it has come from and what it has been through.

My body doesn't suit a vegetarian diet, I've tried it through lack of funds in the past for a year and believe me it really doesn't suit me at all.

I actually have a problem with killing plants for no good reason. I've been causing some amusement to my friends and family because I foolishly planted all the tomato seeds in all the packets I had bought. I have some 200 tomato plants, I have given some away but I'm left with well over 100 and I can't just chuck them in the bin, I've grown them, they need to finish their useful life. Many of them will end up in the pigs but they have had their chance to flower.

It's not just horses that have helped man become what he is today. Ever since man first became a hunter he has prospered and gained use from most parts of all the animals he has eaten. Where would man have been had there been no leather? In fact where would man have been in his travels to colder climes without animal skins for clothing?

Aspire to vegetarianism if you will but it is not how we have evolved to live, we would not have evolved without meat - cancel that, we would not have survived without meat! Horses are more athletic naturally than cows - and I'm talking hundreds of thousands of years ago. They have developed further to be more athletic and useful to man through selective breeding. Cows were, and are still in places, used as multipurpose pack, meat and breeding animals because they were less athletic. Would you say that as dogs are less athletic than cats they should be less deserving of a place in our esteem - be more likely to be eaten?
 
Horses are considered to be meat or lawn mowers where I live - unless their owners are 'into' horses.

I don't eat meat, because I don't like it, not for any ethical reasons. In my opinion, any animal is edible - dogs, horses and cats included, just because they are considered pets or non meat animals by one part of the globe, doesn't mean they are in another. IMO it is a cultural thing, as are many things that we may not agree with.
 
Malibu_Stacy said:
I don't agree with it at all (in fact just thinking about it makes me feel slightly queasy, like thinking about someone eating a family member) BUT I feel pretty much the same about eating any meat (I'm a vegan), so at least I'm consistent!

Ironically the thinking that many of the posters are giving here as to why eating horse-meat is acceptable is part of the reason I became veggie in the first place. I knew I could never eat horse as interacted, become attached, and knew that they were individuals, but then thought I'd probably feel the same about a pet cow or sheep if I had one!
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I totally agree, im a veggie so the thought of meat makes me queezy, i can understand where everyone is coming from but i just couldnt bring myself to eat any horse, i love animals and see them as friends so i just wouldnt feel right XD
 
I have no problem at all with people eating horse meat, I eat beef and lamb so it would be hypocritical of me to think differently.

I wouldn't want there to be a horse meat industry in the UK though. If I understand it right a cow or sheep is killed at around 6 months to a year but a horse is best at around 7 years. I can't understand how a farmer could rear a horse and provide it the standard of care it would need for seven years when the price of meat is so low. Presumably in that seven years they will need feet trimming, vet visits etc and at £1 per kilo which has been suggested even the heaviest horses meat value is going to be only around £750 liveweight or less for deadweight. In the UK where land is so expensive it couldn't be a very good investment in the best case scenario.

If pet horses were to be allowed to enter the food chain then during their lives they would be very restricted as to what drugs they could have. It would be a pretty heartless owner who denied them painkillers so they could be sold for human consumption once their useful life was over.

The video that has been linked to I have seen before and I have no problem at all with the method of humane slaughter that it shows. A far better end than beeing passed through the sales or carted round numerous unsuitable homes.
 
I don't see a problem with raising horses for slaughter. I would not do it myself because I'm pretty sure I would get attached to them and not want them to go then end up howling like a baby. I would also not be able to raise other animals for this reason. I don't see a problem with herds of horses instead of cattle in the fields, I don't understand why anyone would. If the animals were bred specifically for meat and needed to survive and be healthy for maybe 4 years until slaughter I'm pretty sure that the ones with poor conformation would be culled earlier as they would be less likely to survive the 4 years (I'm talking about poor leg conformation etc which would cause unnatural strains/lameness/bad feet) and so perhaps the horses wouldn't be that bad to cause problems if they drifted into the ridden market?

I do think it's unlikely that dogs and cats could possibly be humanely reared for meat as their social structure doesn't really lend itself to this (in my opinion) they will fight for food and dominance, cannot wander peacefully as a non-family herd and frankly, could be very dangerous as a pack (I'm talking dogs here)! Although I may be wrong and again, it's not the humane slaughter I'm questioning, it's the rearing.
 
LittleSoph said:
I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=435JtOKH2Qo

The above video just changed my thoughts completely! Watching each of those horses walking into that room just made me realise the respect and adoration that those animals deserve, and that I feel for them... not just my own horse, in his field, who I visit every day, but all of them.
I found it painful to watch those animals, trusting and respecting those men, follow them into a room, where, unbeknown to them, they would face an undignified, heartless death.
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Remember that many of the horses here have had a wonderful life where they've been adored and theyre due to be PTS for a reason. Potters is very dignified and quiet place- most privately owned horses walk straight off the lorry into that building, they have no idea whats going on and it's all over very quickly. Many ex competition horses go through there and they get excited as they think theyre going to a party, it really is no different to having it done anywhere else and at least you know that the guys at Potters are exceptionally good at what they do.
I have heard so many horror stories about horses being shot by the hunt/ local slaughtermen and not dieing straight away.
I've watched many horses being killed at Potters and have not seen a single thing go wrong.
 
Hmmmmmm, I always argue with OH that I don't eat horsemeat because I'm English and therefore civilised :D (I am quite partial to snails though......)

I really couldn't bring myself to do it, I just like them too much. I have never had a close relation with a cow or a sheep though I have to admit. I see it in the supermarket and just feel a bit sad, you can never see where it's come from either :(

I have worked on pig farm and have always thought that pigs are to good to be eaten but unfortunately for them, so tasty.

I can't imagine my cat would taste nice - she's too angry and bitter :D
 
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