Horses losing condition in the winter

[Wagtail]

Why do you seem to think you would need 3 acres per horse for them to just live at grass?? We keep ours at grass and don't have 3 acres each and they winter just fine. Even without rugs.

Of course you can keep a horse on less, but they need supplementary feeding and your land will get trashed (if it's clay like ours). I know from experience. Dear me, I get attacked for having my horses on an acre of land and now for suggesting that ideally horses need three acres. What a shower!

 

[Wagtail]

I have to take issue with you re the grass getting nibbled occasionally stops a sudden rush of grass. I take hay off my 6 acres, the horses then are out 24/7 over winter, with very occasional hay when there is snow/heavy frost, and come spring it still shoots up. They have been on less than an acre since about March, and it is still growing.
As to the original question, I like ours to drop a little weight over winter but didn't manage it last winter, they do drop condition/muscle tone as don't have much work.

It's not just the nibbling. When I allow the horses out during the winter and early spring, the conditions are dry. This too will prevent the grass being so lush, as it has done the previous two years. It's the way I like it as it allows me to control weight more effectively, though it is loads more expensive.

 

[lexiedhb]

It's not just the nibbling. When I allow the horses out during the winter and early spring, the conditions are dry. This too will prevent the grass being so lush, as it has done the previous two years. It's the way I like it as it allows me to control weight more effectively, though it is loads more expensive.

So your horses stay in for most of winter/spring??

 

[Ellies_mum2]

Of course you can keep a horse on less, but they need supplementary feeding and your land will get trashed (if it's clay like ours). I know from experience. Dear me, I get attacked for having my horses on an acre of land and now for suggesting that ideally horses need three acres. What a shower!

Please show where I 'attacked' you with my query We have about an acre per horse and yes it is on clay and no it doesn't get trashed in the winter as we have got stones/gravel etc in gateways to prevent this. Yeah we get mud but it recovers each summer

 

[Wagtail]

So your horses stay in for most of winter/spring??

No they are out every day but in the massive all weather turnout, with haylage. They have never missed a day's turnout ever even when the snow has meant all other yards around here have not been able to get their horses out.

 

[AmyMay]

So your horses stay in for most of winter/spring??

It would seem so. Too many horses, on too little acreage

 

[Wagtail]

Please show where I 'attacked' you with my query We have about an acre per horse and yes it is on clay and no it doesn't get trashed in the winter as we have got stones/gravel etc in gateways to prevent this. Yeah we get mud but it recovers each summer

You didn't, no. We have all gateways hardcored and gravelled, but even when we had two horses on 7 acres it got trashed. Our land is very clay and on a slope so this doesn't help. Of course, the land recovers, but I have had too many accidents happen in muddy fields to risk any more. The final straw was when my beloved mare broke her shoulder and had to be retired. I will not have horses in muddy fields. It is just not worth the risk (for me).

They love the all weather turnout, and never get mud fever.

 

[why1040]

Okay, I got to page 26 before I gave up and just had to say something.

To the OP:
A) your poll is poorly worded (I come from a research background here) and is biased towards your own view. That'll be why most people "agree" with you, because they didn't necessarily read the whole diatribe you then spouted. Had I not actually read the rest of the thread (well okay, most of it) I probably would have clicked the wrong choice too.

B) your science is dodgy and you put your own beliefs in as fact.

C) you are constantly changing the goalposts, which makes it quite hard to discuss anything with you because we don't know what you ACTUALLY mean!

There's a massive difference between losing a bit of weight over winter and going into starvation mode (which does slow the metabolism). It takes a LOT of weight loss to go into starvation mode. It has been proven scientifically that horses' metabolism goes UP in winter. It only goes DOWN if SIGNIFICANT weight loss (ie starvation) is achieved. Thus your statement that constant losing and gaining of weight is a bad thing is actually not proven. Whereas several studies show that losing some weight in winter is a good thing.

It makes sense nutritionally to keep our horses eating as naturally as is possible considering their circumstances, because that's how they were designed to be fed. Hence why things are changing so we trickle feed more, add more roughage, etc. So why are you so against the concept that horses were designed to lose a bit of weight in the winter for their health?

You can say that you were aiming to hear from the people who are just skimping on their horses' diets all you like, as that's not what you stated originally, that's just backtracking I'm afraid. Your statement was that weight loss during the winter is down to poor management. It's not. It's good management. Except where it isn't because there is already poor management.

 

[lexiedhb]

You didn't, no. We have all gateways hardcored and gravelled, but even when we had two horses on 7 acres it got trashed. Our land is very clay and on a slope so this doesn't help. Of course, the land recovers, but I have had too many accidents happen in muddy fields to risk any more. The final straw was when my beloved mare broke her shoulder and had to be retired. I will not have horses in muddy fields. It is just not worth the risk (for me).

They love the all weather turnout, and never get mud fever.

Blimey- so your horses spend alot of time in during wet weather- what a shame for them.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Okay, I got to page 26 before I gave up and just had to say something.

To the OP:
A) your poll is poorly worded (I come from a research background here) and is biased towards your own view. That'll be why most people "agree" with you, because they didn't necessarily read the whole diatribe you then spouted. Had I not actually read the rest of the thread (well okay, most of it) I probably would have clicked the wrong choice too.

B) your science is dodgy and you put your own beliefs in as fact.

C) you are constantly changing the goalposts, which makes it quite hard to discuss anything with you because we don't know what you ACTUALLY mean!

There's a massive difference between losing a bit of weight over winter and going into starvation mode (which does slow the metabolism). It takes a LOT of weight loss to go into starvation mode. It has been proven scientifically that horses' metabolism goes UP in winter. It only goes DOWN if SIGNIFICANT weight loss (ie starvation) is achieved. Thus your statement that constant losing and gaining of weight is a bad thing is actually not proven. Whereas several studies show that losing some weight in winter is a good thing.

It makes sense nutritionally to keep our horses eating as naturally as is possible considering their circumstances, because that's how they were designed to be fed. Hence why things are changing so we trickle feed more, add more roughage, etc. So why are you so against the concept that horses were designed to lose a bit of weight in the winter for their health?

You can say that you were aiming to hear from the people who are just skimping on their horses' diets all you like, as that's not what you stated originally, that's just backtracking I'm afraid. Your statement was that weight loss during the winter is down to poor management. It's not. It's good management. Except where it isn't because there is already poor management.

*standing ovation*

 

[siennamum]

Okay, I got to page 26 before I gave up and just had to say something.

To the OP:
A) your poll is poorly worded (I come from a research background here) and is biased towards your own view. That'll be why most people "agree" with you, because they didn't necessarily read the whole diatribe you then spouted. Had I not actually read the rest of the thread (well okay, most of it) I probably would have clicked the wrong choice too.

B) your science is dodgy and you put your own beliefs in as fact.

C) you are constantly changing the goalposts, which makes it quite hard to discuss anything with you because we don't know what you ACTUALLY mean!

There's a massive difference between losing a bit of weight over winter and going into starvation mode (which does slow the metabolism). It takes a LOT of weight loss to go into starvation mode. It has been proven scientifically that horses' metabolism goes UP in winter. It only goes DOWN if SIGNIFICANT weight loss (ie starvation) is achieved. Thus your statement that constant losing and gaining of weight is a bad thing is actually not proven. Whereas several studies show that losing some weight in winter is a good thing.

It makes sense nutritionally to keep our horses eating as naturally as is possible considering their circumstances, because that's how they were designed to be fed. Hence why things are changing so we trickle feed more, add more roughage, etc. So why are you so against the concept that horses were designed to lose a bit of weight in the winter for their health?

You can say that you were aiming to hear from the people who are just skimping on their horses' diets all you like, as that's not what you stated originally, that's just backtracking I'm afraid. Your statement was that weight loss during the winter is down to poor management. It's not. It's good management. Except where it isn't because there is already poor management.

Hooray - a voice of reason. Wagtail, please address this post. Or please tell me how my horses losing and gaining a small amount of seasonal weight (and there are no exceptional circumstances) is due to poor management.

 

[spaniel]

Applauds why1040

 

[honetpot]

We are on clay and live on the edge of a flood plain so some of the land get flooded some years to a depth of two feet.
My animals are out all year, you just have to close your eyes to the mud, have a scarifice paddock and acccept that you have to harrow and reseed in the spring. I have 6 on aproxiametly 5 acres.
If the mud is really bad I make islands of straw for them to stand on out of the wet, but I have never had any with mud fever even the TB. Come the spring they come onto a smaller area and the rest of the land is fertilised ,harrowed and seeded and even in this dry spring the grass has recovered.
It does take some thinking about but I think they are better out than stood in a stable, even if the pasture is not perfect and sometime resembles a bog.

 

[Wagtail]

Okay, I got to page 26 before I gave up and just had to say something.

To the OP:
A) your poll is poorly worded (I come from a research background here) and is biased towards your own view. That'll be why most people "agree" with you, because they didn't necessarily read the whole diatribe you then spouted.

I got this far before realising you are not worth answering as you are unnecesarily rude. I have an hons degree in psychology and therefore had to do a lot of research in my time too. I also can completely see through you and others of a similar disposition.

 

[Wagtail]

Blimey- so your horses spend alot of time in during wet weather- what a shame for them.

No they are out all day every day. Come in at nights in winter.

 

[Wagtail]

We are on clay and live on the edge of a flood plain so some of the land get flooded some years to a depth of two feet.
My animals are out all year, you just have to close your eyes to the mud, have a scarifice paddock and acccept that you have to harrow and reseed in the spring. I have 6 on aproxiametly 5 acres.
If the mud is really bad I make islands of straw for them to stand on out of the wet, but I have never had any with mud fever even the TB. Come the spring they come onto a smaller area and the rest of the land is fertilised ,harrowed and seeded and even in this dry spring the grass has recovered.
It does take some thinking about but I think they are better out than stood in a stable, even if the pasture is not perfect and sometime resembles a bog.

I could not have my horses kept like that. I would have no liveries! Fine if that is what your own horses prefer, but mine would hate it. They go out every day in a large safe area free of mud and puddles and with pleanty of room for a canter and roll. I feel happier that they are not sliding about and risking injury due to mud. That is my own (and my liveries') preference. And yes, they do get the choice.

 

[*hic*]

I got this far before realising you are not worth answering as you are unnecesarily rude. I have an hons degree in psychology and therefore had to do a lot of research in my time too. I also can completely see through you and others of a similar disposition.

ROFLMFAO

What IS this person on


Has any one else spotted that the impresson given of a large livery yard with one horse per acre actually consists of seven acres, so presumably seven horses, several of which are the OP's own?

 

[why1040]

I got this far before realising you are not worth answering as you are unnecesarily rude. I have an hons degree in psychology and therefore had to do a lot of research in my time too. I also can completely see through you and others of a similar disposition.

Well IBD...

I've actually never been accused of being rude before!

I feel quite proud!

If we're going to compare qualifications, I have an Hons in Equine Industry Management (First), a dip HE in Nursing and 7 years of writing and conducting clinical pharmaceutical studies. I know my research and I know my science.

And I'm sorry, but assuming that everyone who allows their horses to lose condition in the winter is managing their horses poorly (which is what you said in your OP) is a diatribe (A forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something. Courtesy Dictionary.com).

Your science remains dodgy. You come out with personal opinion and claim that it's fact. And you do constantly change the goalposts.

 

[jhoward]

I got this far before realising you are not worth answering as you are unnecesarily rude. I have an hons degree in psychology and therefore had to do a lot of research in my time too. I also can completely see through you and others of a similar disposition.

this poster was not rude, they in fact posted as far as i can see a well thought out post, you how ever felt the need to big your slef up show lack of respect for any bodies opinion, its really not needed and if your so clever prehaps with your degree in psycology you could respond with an intelligent well though out reply, as for much of this thread im enjoying the debates. much smarter than being rude.

now i have read all of this post and i would like to ask.

you say
Ours will have the odd day out in the fields in winter and very early spring if it has been dry enough and the ground is not frozen.

but then you say your horses never miss a days turnout, if you are suffereing with the conditon of your horses, many of which if im not mistaken are liveries then prehaps you need to listen to some of the posts on here and the forum in general about the managment of the diet, as it would seem that your ways are not working.

i do think.. to agree with you on one thing about the turnout space a lot does depend on the land, size of horse, shod/unshod etc.

 

[martlin]

ROFLMFAO

What IS this person on


Has any one else spotted that the impresson given of a large livery yard with one horse per acre actually consists of seven acres, so presumably seven horses, several of which are the OP's own?

Oh, yes, Jemima and a little bit of imaginative googling will easily bring you to the right website, too

 

[Wagtail]

Oh, yes, Jemima and a little bit of imaginative googling will easily bring you to the right website, too

I have a website? That's news to me.

 

[*hic*]

Oh, yes, Jemima and a little bit of imaginative googling will easily bring you to the right website, too

Oooh I hadn't thought of that.

Very interesting

I have now found out though that this person prefers novices for the five spaces she has for liveries on her yard. Wonder why that would be then!

 

[martlin]

Oooh I hadn't thought of that.

Very interesting

I have now found out though that this person prefers novices for the five spaces she has for liveries on her yard. Wonder why that would be then!

Easier to brainwash

 

[Baggybreeches]

Well IBD...

I've actually never been accused of being rude before!

I feel quite proud!

If we're going to compare qualifications, I have an Hons in Equine Industry Management (First), a dip HE in Nursing and 7 years of writing and conducting clinical pharmaceutical studies. I know my research and I know my science.

And I'm sorry, but assuming that everyone who allows their horses to lose condition in the winter is managing their horses poorly (which is what you said in your OP) is a diatribe (A forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something. Courtesy Dictionary.com).

Your science remains dodgy. You come out with personal opinion and claim that it's fact. And you do constantly change the goalposts.

why1040, are you actually my 'other' personality? You say so eloquently what I am thinking but can't be bothered to write in reply. If wagtail doesn't appreciate your contribution to the thread I sure as hell do. And FWIW I am pretty sure you haven't been rude either?

 

[Enfys]

I have a website? That's news to me.

Oh, not yours? Shame, because it is a little cracking yard.

Wagtail, I have a question, perfectly civil and purely just out of curiosity on my part. You said that you fed five times a day, how on earth do you manage to do anything else (house, shopping, social life etc, etc) during the day if you are tied to a regime like that, or do you keep staff as well?

 

[AmyMay]

I got this far before realising you are not worth answering as you are unnecesarily rude. I have an hons degree in psychology and therefore had to do a lot of research in my time too. I also can completely see through you and others of a similar disposition.

Actually Wagtail, Why1040 made a very well worded post. She disagreed with you - but was not rude in any way.

 

[Rollin]

I have not read all the posts.

Just to say my first horse was 15 years old when I bought him. He lost so much condition in winter he was kept stabled and became unrideable.

He is now 32 years old never bucked after I bought him and never loses condition in winter - just a little bit that is managed. I keep him warm let him gain some weight in October and lose some weight before spring grass. I adjust feed with seasons.

He has never given me a vet bill.

 

[Zebedee]

Oh dear Wagtail...................feed them 5 times a day? They'll never pass the 5 stage vetting you insist on before any piece of serious work or competiton if you do that ! There wouldn't be time beween meals for a start !

FWIW nature dictates that horses (& in particular ponies) lose weight in the winter & put it back on in the spring. Of course most of us are far too clever to let that happen, so we rug, & feed to keep their weight up. This is a good thing however, because trying to stop them gaining even more weight when the spring grass comes through gives us something to do.

 

[joeanne]

I got this far before realising you are not worth answering as you are unnecesarily rude. I have an hons degree in psychology and therefore had to do a lot of research in my time too. I also can completely see through you and others of a similar disposition.

That roughly translates as:
Why1040....as you are far cleverer than I am, and I can't fool you with my psychobabble, I shall brand you as rude thus avoid answering some very logical questions.....

Would you like a spade Wagtail or are you ok to continue digging that rather large hole with your bare hands?

 

[*hic*]

That roughly translates as:
Why1040....as you are far cleverer than I am, and I can't fool you with my psychobabble, I shall brand you as rude thus avoid answering some very logical questions.....

Would you like a spade Wagtail or are you ok to continue digging that rather large hole with your bare hands?

Oops, there goes my coffee all over the screen!

Wagtail I'm still imagining you with your fingers in your ears mumbling "La la la I can't hear you".

It's a long time since you announced you were "putting this thread to bed". If you can't leave it alone may I suggest you take up joeanne's very kind offer of a spade?