How are we doing?

[Horsekaren]

Ok, sooo, this was a couple of days before the video i thought i was happy with now i wish i could destroy it lol
This is how i ride a lot of the time, the rein is lose, at some points (i think the first few seconds i an example) i think he is going great?
My rising is *hit so ignore that, i am working on forward and back rather than trying to head butt a cloud which i seem to be doing here.

You can see how mobile his neck is, i can see sometimes he is trying to stretch, sometimes he throws it um and sometimes it is steady when i am trying to keep a contact i am battling with that much movement that i end up with washing lines. I know i need to push him forward into it but when he tries to snatch i dont know how to keep steady. on the left rein he goes straight onto his forehand so i do play with the rein a few times to get him off which i think he responds to.


I think we are just stuck, i know its not all about hands but i need to find a point where i have something.

I have to keep reminding myself he is weak, i am weak, so its not a case of i can suddenly fix it i guess i just want to keep going at a pace where he will slowly become stronger.

I have noted all the hacking advise and becoming stronger.

 

[scats]

He’s such a lovely boy OP, I’m a huge fan of his. To me in that video, he looks like he’s actually seeking some sort of contact, but it’s just not there for him. I totally understand people saying that you need to be stiller with your hands before picking up a contact, but I would be curious as to how he goes if you shorten you reins, bend your elbows, keep your hands still (but not fixed) out in front of you and give him a light and consistent contact to work in to.

Definitely agree about the hacking.

 

[Mule]

He's definitely getting it in the video you just posted. You can gradually shorten the reins now and see if he keeps stretching for the contact. Don't worry about him not being consistent for the moment because the contact is likely to come and go for a while.

 

[tristar]

why are your hands a foot apart and your arms completely straight? he is going into a rigid hand from a stiff arm when he needs softness, elasticity and a mobile elbow that goes forwards when needed so he can feel safe to reach forwards, you are blocking him most possibly.

i keep my hands almost together,fairly high if poss, or the width of the bit apart at most, unless opening the inside rein to invite a youngster or stiff horse to bend to the inside, but at all times my elbows are bent

i think your body position is very good, the rhythm is super, one day you will be a lovely rider

 

[tristar]

and variety, i would do schooling one day, hacking the next or loose jumping, at least 5 days a week work, lunging in big circles and straight lines, up hills, down hills, on soft surfaces and hard surfaces.

try riding him on grass, i have a horse that goes much better on grass

 

[indie1282]

Your reins are too loose and your hand far too low and wide. You need to lift them up and bend the elbow.

You need to stop playing with the reins and trying to ' make ' the contact. Keep the hands still, a nice even contact and ride from behind. Lots of transitions not just in to different places but transitions IN the paces aswell. You need to engage the brain and the back end and the rest will follow.

Why do you not hack? I really really think that would help this horse massively.

 

[Floxie]

Ok, sooo, this was a couple of days before the video i thought i was happy with now i wish i could destroy it lol

Aaw don't be daft! It's helpful to see what needs work - both to people wanting to give you advice, and to you! If it was perfect there would be no point sharing

and variety, i would do schooling one day, hacking the next or loose jumping, at least 5 days a week work, lunging in big circles and straight lines, up hills, down hills, on soft surfaces and hard surfaces.

Absolutely this. Also, if you feel like you're just slogging away at this (which is the feeling I get from your last post) then it'll do you both no end of good to change it up. Don't stress about how what you're doing relates to what you're working on - put some cones and poles out, do some groundwork, whatever - ALL the time you spend working together will feed in and make you both stronger, too.

 

[Mule]

Also, op none of us are perfect. Keep that in mind. There's very few of us who'd be brave enough to put up a riding video.

 

[Jinx94]

I really struggled with keeping my hands still, and still do at times. The most useful piece of advice I received (others may disagree) is to visualise your hands in a shoebox in front of you.

It almost immediately made a difference to my riding!

 

[Myloubylou]

can you dictate the speed of his legs by your rise in the trot? He’s got quite nice rhythm albeit quite sedate but notice you have quite small and slow rise. I’d try quickening my rise, giving him a tap with the whip, shortening my reins and seeing if he goes with you. Once his legs are bit quicker you can rise bigger to see if he will take bigger stride

 

[JFTDWS]

How the horse looks is - at the moment - irrelevant. He looks better at times in that video because he's not being interfered with in his mouth. The OP's hands are still low, straight elbows, lacking independence - that's what needs to be fixed before picking up the reins and trying to get the supple contact. The horse isn't the issue at the moment - he's confused by the OP's efforts to take a contact, because the OP's hands aren't there yet. Fix the hands, then pick up a correct rein contact - the horse is waiting for the OP to be able to do that.

 

[Horsekaren]

So, no massive change in one weekend, my hands still need to get over themselves and settle down but i have gone back to focusing on the engine.
clip one is my attempt at this, its inconsistent, i am trying to keep my outside rein steady (i dont know why my hand is sideways ) and the inside rein i am only using when he goes onto his forehand tweak and then i am dropping it as i think i'm i am using it to much and blocking him. From the first video is he more through? and is this the correct level of power?
(his head shaking is beginning so that is a cause for some but not all of the movement)

The second video after about 20 mins of the above (lots of transitions up into canter and back down in this manor) i ended by running through an intro A test, I have tried to take a bit of contact (not much) but have i gone back to blocking him front the front?

On the positive side we walked!!!! we didnt jog!!!!

You will also be pleased to know i am putting myself on a few weeks schooling ban (apart from my weekly lesson)

 

[chaps89]

Just before Christmas there was a good article in horse and hound. Not sure who the writer was but it was a lovely dark bay/black horse ridden by Andrew days daughter.
I didn't read the article but the pictures were really really good at showing what a true stretch looked like vs what most people actually do.
If you're a visual learner it might be worth digging out the article, maybe someone on here might have it or it might be on the main website in the archives.
Sometimes seeing what you're aiming for is as or more helpful than having it described- to me anyway!

 

[LaurenBay]

OP I struggle massively with my hands, one thing my instructor told me (and i have to remind myself at least 4 times during schooling my share Horse) is to imagine I am holding a tray of drinks, I cant carry the tray with my arms straight and I will spill all of my drinks if my hands are too low or tilted.

 

[Pinkvboots]

The more recent videos are better but he just doesn't look like his using his back end properly, he hardly ever tracks up in the trot and looks like he lacks power behind, if the hind leg is not coming through and engaging he won't work in a true contact, I would be inclined to completely forget about the front end and get the back end working, what's he like on the lunge I would get him lunging and really get him to trot on, it probably is that he is just quite weak but you need to get to get that trot going to make him stronger behind.

Hacking out is good for encouraging them to really work properly find a long stretch and try and get him to power along, I taught one of mine to do extended trot out hacking he just struggled with it in the school.

 

[Leo Walker]

The more recent videos are better but he just doesn't look like his using his back end properly, he hardly ever tracks up in the trot and looks like he lacks power behind, if the hind leg is not coming through and engaging he won't work in a true contact, I would be inclined to completely forget about the front end and get the back end working, what's he like on the lunge I would get him lunging and really get him to trot on, it probably is that he is just quite weak but you need to get to get that trot going to make him stronger behind.

Hacking out is good for encouraging them to really work properly find a long stretch and try and get him to power along, I taught one of mine to do extended trot out hacking he just struggled with it in the school.

I have never seen a video or even a photo of him working from behind. Its why I questioned whether he was sound or not such a lot previously. I vaguely remember the pro rider video and when he was asked to go forwards then he was fighting it. He looks very weak to me and if he was mine I would be worried. It would be interesting to see what he looked like if he was sent on strongly and allowed to find a rhythm.

Are there any videos of him without a rider on playing in the field or similar?

 

[Pinkvboots]

I have never seen a video or even a photo of him working from behind. Its why I questioned whether he was sound or not such a lot previously. I vaguely remember the pro rider video and when he was asked to go forwards then he was fighting it. He looks very weak to me and if he was mine I would be worried. It would be interesting to see what he looked like if he was sent on strongly and allowed to find a rhythm.

Are there any videos of him without a rider on playing in the field or similar?

I also think the breaking into canter is because he doesn't want to really trot out properly as it's too difficult or uncomfortable perhaps.

 

[Horsekaren]

I have never seen a video or even a photo of him working from behind. Its why I questioned whether he was sound or not such a lot previously. I vaguely remember the pro rider video and when he was asked to go forwards then he was fighting it. He looks very weak to me and if he was mine I would be worried. It would be interesting to see what he looked like if he was sent on strongly and allowed to find a rhythm.

Are there any videos of him without a rider on playing in the field or similar?

I have pm'd you a couple of videos. would be interested to hear about that.

He will track up, he did on on the weekend (not with me on board) She was really getting him going long and low, extending the trot on long sides and collecting on the short sides, i said i'd never seen his legs move like that, the hinds were landing where the fronts had lifted from, it was so big and powerful, he was stretching forward and down i knew it was correct as id never seen it. I then hopped on and went straight into a walk on long rein and he was over tracking right away. I then tried to do the same but couldnt quiet get it right so kept bursting into canter.

But 100% he is very weak behind and thats all my doing

 

[Leo Walker]

Its not all your doing. This is a video of Leo. He isnt sound in this video. I bought him knowing he wasnt quite right, and I hoped that the right sort of schooling and ground work would strengthen him and allow him to start pushing from behind. It didnt happen. We gave him 3 weeks or so and it was helping but clearly wasnt going to fix it, so he was pulled out of work and a vet called. The lady riding is a pro rider who I was paying. Shes a beautiful soft and quiet rider and she is making him look a lot easier than he was.

In the videos you sent me adrenalin is making him look better but hes still not moving properly behind. He might not be broken, he might just need to strengthen up, but if thats the case what you are doing isnt working because he does look weaker now than when you bought him and even just bimbling round the school that shouldnt be the case.

I cant tell you what to do, no one can, but this situation has been going on since you got him and its not really improving, so I think you need to stop and take stock of what you are doing. Is it really working for you, if not why not? Is he lame or is it just weakness, and how do you figure that out and "fix it" whatever it is. Is his diet adequate? Has he been seen by a good dentist and body worker? Is his saddle the best possible fit? Is your instructor the right one for you? Are you a hinderance if so how do you improve that?

These are all questions you need to ask yourself. I've seen you ask most of them on here in various forms but then nothing changes and its obvious you want it to. So make it happen.

 

[Leo Walker]

Argh! The video has come out tiny, if you click full screen it will be slightly better!

 

[Rowreach]

The most telling parts of both videos are the steps seen from behind, where the similarities are most obvious.

 

[Nudibranch]

At the risk of being told "there's always one" again, for the sake of the horse I will say it again.
That horse has a right hind issue and I suggest he has for a long time.

 

[ozpoz]

I posted this once before on a previous post of yours OP, but I don't think you noticed it.
i'll post the link again for you because it is a really helpful short video with more experts than you can shake a stick at! Please have a look.
https://www.equitopiacenter.com/videos/recognizing-subtle-lameness-part-one-of-a-four-part-series/

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The best place to start, imo, is with a vet. Find out if he really is lame, or if it's a rider issue. If it's the former, find out what he needs to sort out the lameness. If the latter find a different, good instructor who can teach you in a way that you can relate to.