How do you improve submission in a dominant horse?

[TarrSteps]

If you're going to try a double speak to your trainer first. If it's merely a control issue she can advise you on what set up to try. If it's a motivation issue then it may not be the way to proceed. But please be careful. Earlier this year I tried a very mild leverage bridle on a generally very calm horse and he reacted in an unprecedented manner. We all survived - mostly because I had someone with me - but it certainly raised my blood pressure a few notches!

Also, discuss with your trainer the potential long term repercussions. I've seen short term/occasional use benefit a few horses but I've also had a couple to ride/reschool for lower level work that had become almost unridable in snaffles. Courses for horses!

 

[Andiamo]

Just one teeny tiny point. You say your horse prefers to be at grass, but then that it's nice for him to be in at night, warm, rugged etc. I think the "him" may need to say "me".

Absolutely I was thinking that as I wrote it

His behaviour change might be down to change or yard, hay, routine, but it may also be because he prefers being out where he can let off steam.... IMO horses who are out 24/7 are less at risk of hooning about and damaging themselves because it's normal, not exciting for them.

I'm not saying don't keep him in, I'm just saying keep an open mind, because if he carries on being tense you could maybe make him a lot happier by moving back to grass livery. It's kinder on your wallet too, what's not to like ;0)

I wouldn't mind him being out, I have enough turn out rugs for him. But then he wouldn't get his twice daily feeds, because I can't get there twice a day. I moved from DIY because I needed the extra help, also the mucking out and field poo-picking was killing my back (old riding injuries). If he goes back on grass, I will be back to having to poo pick (unless I can find someone to do and pay them). Grass livery definitely is kinder on the wallet. It also made him easier, and less stressed. Hmmm, must consider this option...

 

[Andiamo]

If you're going to try a double speak to your trainer first. If it's merely a control issue she can advise you on what set up to try. If it's a motivation issue then it may not be the way to proceed. But please be careful. Earlier this year I tried a very mild leverage bridle on a generally very calm horse and he reacted in an unprecedented manner. We all survived - mostly because I had someone with me - but it certainly raised my blood pressure a few notches!

Also, discuss with your trainer the potential long term repercussions. I've seen short term/occasional use benefit a few horses but I've also had a couple to ride/reschool for lower level work that had become almost unridable in snaffles. Courses for horses!

My boy is very bit sensitive anyway. If I did try him in a double, there would be quite a lot of ground work in it before I would ever get on him. The thing is, that there are lots of issues to resolve at the lower levels, in which a double is not allowed. I'd like him to be a good boy, and behave well in a snaffle, and get good results for being good out at the lower levels, before introducing a double. Also, working in a double at home, and then using a snaffle at a show = change of tack before a comp - a situation I would rather avoid.
Anyway, this discussion around snaffle versus double highlights the fact that maybe I need to investigate using a slightly stronger bit now, in order to have better control. He's been in a Level 1 Myler bit for some time now. Maybe it's time to get something else.

 

[TarrSteps]

What does he currently eat?

 

[TarrSteps]

And which Myler?

 

[Andiamo]

What does he currently eat?

Allen & Page Fast Fibre - it's very low starch and grain free.

 

[Andiamo]

And which Myler?

Myler Comfort - Baucher / hanging cheek - can be seen here: http://www.horsebithire.com/myler-comfort-baucher
"A Myler Level 1 Dressage Legal bit with the central revolving barrel in conjunction with the hanging cheek. Very useful if your horse has a tendency to poke his nose and hollow. "

 

[Gamebird]

Slightly off topic, but the snaffle vs double debate for lower level horses has been raging recently on the BD forum. I suggest you take a look if you're interested or just fancy some entertainment. Some interesting contributions.

Having said which I now can't find it. It was definitely there the other day. My apologies. Most odd!

 

[cptrayes]

actually you cure it by doing consistant logical work in and around fillers so the work becomes the comfort blanket and the horse learns to focus on that and not its surroundings.

you dont stop him looking, you train him not to want or need to do it, big difference.

There are horses who you could train not to spook at a particular filler who will spook at any new one that they see. The only thing that you can do with those horses is either never ever expose them to anything new, or train them to listen so closely to the rider that they stop looking for danger elsewhere.

You do actually need to jump the fillers too PS

You describe this as "learnign to focus on the work" and I describe it as "learning to focus on the rider". I think we are talking about the same thing.

at what level did said horse compete and how did he/she progress with that method of training? how did scores improve etc?

He had some points at elementary and we went immediately to Medium because the more I gave him to do the better behaved he was. He wasn't ready to produce a competitive performance at Medium so his scores are only mid 50's. He improved over the winter to a position where he would certainly have scored points at Medium, and had 3-time tempi changes and was close to passage and piaffe at home, but he had to be put down before he could compete this year

He changed from being a horse who was impossible to keep in a warm-up or inside a dressage arena if he did not want to be there to one who managed to get Elementary points. It was the most enormous change.

 

[siennamum]

My youngster is a frustrating mix of dominant and anxious. I suppose he thinks he should take charge as I'm clearly a liability.
If it is of use I do the following.

If he is being aggressive on the ground - pulling faces behind me and thinking about 'rounding me up' in the field, I will make him back up and be absolutely zero tolerance on the ground with him. I know you are talking about how yours is in the arena, but I think a lack of respect will also manifest on the ground - even if you can't always spot it, and ground work will improve their ridden attitude.

I make sure he is happy. Sounds facile, but I know lots of unhappy horses, who have no social life, no fun & who aren't treated as individuals. I think it makes the difference between horses which are consistent & really try for you and those who are begrudging at best & just horrid generally. Horses like this need to be treated scrupulously fairly I think, mine will hold a grudge and I get payback if I have been unreasonable.

Mine wants me to be in complete control. He wants me to ride him like I stole him (or he thinks he does), he likes to be mentally stimulated and absolutely clear about what I want from him. He hates to be confused and exercises like CPTrayes one are ideal for him, he is busy and occupied. I refuse to let him rely on me completely and as he grows up he has to be more self sufficient, but more forceful riding would suit him very well all the time - sp long as it goes hand in hand with praise when he is good. It's when I am ambling along that he is plotting being naughty often.

I don't know if this is any use, but it's how I've come out the other side with mine.

 

[~ Clear Light ~]

Hey Andiamo,

I don't think he sounds "dominant" either, just rather exhuberant as nature has made him a hot and sensitive horse from what you've said who needs tactful riding and careful management. I always focus on the rider not the perceived problems with the horse. Routine wise you obviously know him best, have had him at several yards and you've said he is better with more turnout.

Its very difficult to get the full picture without seeing what he actually does. I am totally with you for avoiding unecessary bit or tack changes and instead taking time to do it all properly. He sounds like a horse who needs riding totally from the core, back and seat. Fine tuning and co-ordination of your driving and restraining aids will be the main way to overcome his spooking, it is not about brute force at all. Are you absolutely sure you're not tipping forwards or perching? Any slight loss of balance from your side is going to make it easy for him to "get away". He needs to be truly in front of your leg yet be relaxed, so work on the basics first rather than focusing soley on the spooking. If you're anticipating spooking then guess what he's going to do I can't underestimate how important it is to GIVE the inside hand when he does relax and starts to stretch through his frame.

I worked with a rider with a similarly hot horse who was perceived as being strong and a real handful. In actual fact by establishing a secure connection through the seat (ie really learning to sit on your bum and upright! Lunge lessons, work without stirrups - not on him obviously ) she was eventually able to totally give with the hand and the horse just stayed there where she was put. If it was me I would be thinking along these lines, what can YOU do as a rider to help your horse. Hard work but once established with a good trainer you will be 99% there. And only your trainer will be able to tell you when something really isn't your fault and when you may need a stronger half halt/non yielding hand

 

[shortstuff99]

Slightly off topic, but the snaffle vs double debate for lower level horses has been raging recently on the BD forum. I suggest you take a look if you're interested or just fancy some entertainment. Some interesting contributions.

Having said which I now can't find it. It was definitely there the other day. My apologies. Most odd!

Do you mean this thread http://www.britishdressage.co.uk/forum/show_topic?topic=532230 ?

 

[Gamebird]

Do you mean this thread http://www.britishdressage.co.uk/forum/show_topic?topic=532230 ?

That one, yes. Thanks!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

There are horses who you could train not to spook at a particular filler who will spook at any new one that they see. The only thing that you can do with those horses is either never ever expose them to anything new, or train them to listen so closely to the rider that they stop looking for danger elsewhere.

You do actually need to jump the fillers too PS

You describe this as "learnign to focus on the work" and I describe it as "learning to focus on the rider". I think we are talking about the same thing.



He had some points at elementary and we went immediately to Medium because the more I gave him to do the better behaved he was. He wasn't ready to produce a competitive performance at Medium so his scores are only mid 50's. He improved over the winter to a position where he would certainly have scored points at Medium, and had 3-time tempi changes and was close to passage and piaffe at home, but he had to be put down before he could compete this year

He changed from being a horse who was impossible to keep in a warm-up or inside a dressage arena if he did not want to be there to one who managed to get Elementary points. It was the most enormous change.

I,personally DON'T have to jump the fillers and training a sj'er is very different as they need to learn to think for themselves more and NOT wait for every aid like a pure dressage horse so it's apples and oranges and as the OP has a dressage home I'll concentrate on that...

Ref the horse trained in this way, it doesn't quite make sense as the harder elems have plenty to do and consistant low 50's at medium is more than greenness but that's another topic I guess, at what point does trying to keep them occupied simply become pushing them above their limit..........but like I said, thats another can of worms for another thread.

IME people over think and over complicate and also make up over complex reasons for lack of good behaviour when they are just not able, or not brave enough, to firmly, but fairly, ask the questions that need to be asked, especially for something so basic and necessary as not boogering off spooking all the time........keep it simple and firm and fair and you can't go far wrong imo!

 

[daffy44]

Hello, I have a very sharp naughty mare and she lives out 24/7, i've had her since she was a yearling, backed her myself, and i have tried twice having her in at night, and each time it made her a monster! She is always tricky, but whilst out 24/7 she is manageable, when she came in at night she was impossible, i tried it in the winter when she was 4 and again when she was 8, both times it was dreadful. So she stays out, she has a lot of rugs on, a field shelter and is fed twice a day, and hayed three times a day and she does very well on it, she wins at advanced medium, training small tour, all from the field. I have to admit its a pain to have to demud in the morning before shows, but its worth it to have a horse i can ride when i get to the show. Maybe its worth putting your horse back on grass livery for a while and seeing if it makes a difference?

 

[Andiamo]

Hey Andiamo,

I don't think he sounds "dominant" either, just rather exhuberant as nature has made him a hot and sensitive horse from what you've said who needs tactful riding and careful management. I always focus on the rider not the perceived problems with the horse. Routine wise you obviously know him best, have had him at several yards and you've said he is better with more turnout.

Its very difficult to get the full picture without seeing what he actually does. I am totally with you for avoiding unecessary bit or tack changes and instead taking time to do it all properly. He sounds like a horse who needs riding totally from the core, back and seat. Fine tuning and co-ordination of your driving and restraining aids will be the main way to overcome his spooking, it is not about brute force at all. Are you absolutely sure you're not tipping forwards or perching? Any slight loss of balance from your side is going to make it easy for him to "get away". He needs to be truly in front of your leg yet be relaxed, so work on the basics first rather than focusing soley on the spooking. If you're anticipating spooking then guess what he's going to do I can't underestimate how important it is to GIVE the inside hand when he does relax and starts to stretch through his frame.

I worked with a rider with a similarly hot horse who was perceived as being strong and a real handful. In actual fact by establishing a secure connection through the seat (ie really learning to sit on your bum and upright! Lunge lessons, work without stirrups - not on him obviously ) she was eventually able to totally give with the hand and the horse just stayed there where she was put. If it was me I would be thinking along these lines, what can YOU do as a rider to help your horse. Hard work but once established with a good trainer you will be 99% there. And only your trainer will be able to tell you when something really isn't your fault and when you may need a stronger half halt/non yielding hand

Clearlight. Apologies in advance if I sound defensive...but just to be clear, I am not a beginning rider and do have some extensive experience and knowledge myself.... I do understand / practice the fundamental basics based on the Scales of Training plus many other schools of thought. I have trained this horse myself, with minimal intervention from anyone else. He is ridden from the core, back and seat, I do sit straight, I don't perch, I spent one year 4-5 times per week on the lunge when I lived in Germany many years ago, I can ride with no stirrups, no hands - no problem (just not on this nutty one). He is in front of my leg, he is more than in front of it, he is waaaay too much in front of it, despite the smallest, politest of aides. He is very sensitive. Restraint is what is needed when he makes a takeover bid. Not forward driving aides. I have the basics established.... he is just a hot and bothered horse who cannot relax most of the time. Most people would not be able to ride one side of him. I don't focus on things he is about to spook at, if anything, he's been spooking since Day 1, I'm kinda used to it by now, I am determined to ride past things he finds scary. I work in many different ways to get him past everything, including a herd of deer at "E" about 6 weeks ago (which ended up with him catapulting me across the school).
I do give with the inside hand in a timely fashion. He does get a rewarding pat when he is good. I do not rely on my trainer to tell me everything. I can do things for myself as well, I do actually have enough knowledge, experience and training already.

The individual I train with when required, is a top International GP rider, and she has said I am too nice with him. That I need to be harder on him. She makes me really kick him onto my outside rein (repeatedly) to get him to give in and be more submissive. She says he's ignorant. She uses strength, grit, determination to make a horse do something (as many pros do - and when I say pros - I mean top international successful riders) - in doing so, she teaches the horse that it cannot take the mickey. She is very "Konsequent" as the Germans say. Her style of riding is very similar to German riding, and of course she's taught by the top master in the UK....who has a German influence himself.

I guess I shouldn't have posted on here at all about this subject.
Anyway, sorry for asking the initial question.... I'll deal with it myself, as I have been doing up until now.

 

[cptrayes]

I,personally DON'T have to jump the fillers and training a sj'er is very different as they need to learn to think for themselves more and NOT wait for every aid like a pure dressage horse so it's apples and oranges and as the OP has a dressage home I'll concentrate on that...

If you didn't ever jump the fillers you'd never know whether a horse of a highly self-protective nature would or would not. I also disagree with you about whether I would want a showjumper to think for itself more than a dressage horse.

Ref the horse trained in this way, it doesn't quite make sense as the harder elems have plenty to do

That just isn't true. For a horse of the kind that I am talking about it is much easier to keep their mind on their work than the flapping advertising banner if the movements come faster. In medium they come much faster than at elementary and my horse enjoyed doing mediums more than elementary and was softer in my hand than doing an elementary because of it. The fact that he was not "ready" to compete (ie win points) at that level did not mean that it was not right to go out and participate with no expectation of a place, and we both enjoyed doing it.

and consistant low 50's at medium is more than greenness but that's another topic I guess, at what point does trying to keep them occupied simply become pushing them above their limit..........but like I said, thats another can of worms for another thread.

Well you'd never ridden this horse and since no-one else I know would ever get on his back I have no way of judging whether someone could have done a better job than me. My trainer, who also would not ride him, has fond memories of him attempting to leave her indoor school by climbing on top of the double height heston bales of straw out of which the walls were built

IME people over think and over complicate and also make up over complex reasons for lack of good behaviour when they are just not able, or not brave enough, to firmly, but fairly, ask the questions that need to be asked, especially for something so basic and necessary as not boogering off spooking all the time........keep it simple and firm and fair and you can't go far wrong imo!

Your analysis is grossly over-simplistic.

Your own and your sister's horses sometimes blow up either in training or in competition as you have recorded in other threads. You posted a thread recently asking for advice how to stop your horse doing so. So I'm not sure quite where your experience to tell others that controlling "boogering off" and "spooking" as being "basic if you keep it simple, firm and fair" is coming from.

I am talking about one horse in around forty that I have personally trained in over 30 years, not your average RC horse. I think it is possible that you have not yet met one like it. For your sake I hope you never do, he was more challenge than I ever want to face again. The OPs horse sounds very like him.

 

[~ Clear Light ~]

Andiamo you shouldn't really be disheartened, everyone is taking the time to try and help and see different perspectives. Like I said before, it is impossible to understand the exact situation without seeing it.

What I'm getting at is a horse who is on the aids (ie maintained between BOTH driving and restraining aids) has less chance to spook. It doesn't necessarily mean they will be relaxed (my Akhal Teke certainly wasn't ). I was thinking that a lot of top dressage horses are hot and tricky to handle but through clever riding they rarely spook.

Top international riders CAN use more grit and determination than most of us because they can be more sure when it is justified and not use it to just vent their anger. However I think this still comes down mostly to skill, experience and tactics and not primarily to force.

As I (and others) said, its your trainer you should speak to about where to go next as you've come this far this him already and only recently you posted about how he had transformed. Everyone has ups and downs. Good luck and I'm sure it will come good in the end

 

[TarrSteps]

OP, I'm sorry you're upset by some of the comments, I'm sure that's not been anyone's intention.

As said, there is no way to say without seeing - and possibly sitting on - a horse in a situation such as this. I don't know about everyone else but I also tend to be aware of other people reading threads such as this who may have different levels of knowledge and/or situations that seem similar but actually aren't. This sometimes means I clarify when I know the OP doesn't really need it! For example, the topic of the double bridle - I didn't think you'd want to go that way, at least not without consulting your trainer, so the comment about seeking help was more a general one to anyone out there thinking it might be a quick and easy solution to a similar sounding situation.

Re the feed, I have a similarly reactive horse and what he eats makes a HUGE difference to his behaviour but it sounds like you've got that sussed. I've also found an immune supplement helps a great deal when he can't live out 24/7, is competing or is otherwise leading a stressful/synthetic life. He doesn't eat chaff but has done well on grass nuts and, more recently, Re-leve or similar.

Re the comfort snaffle, I generally like the Mylers very much but have found some horses can get fixed in the neck in them over time. Also, while I like hanging cheeks, they have a very specific purpose. Perhaps it might be worth trying a more traditional loose ring + drop combo? It's unlikely to be a game changer but perhaps a slightly different feel would go some way to getting his attention.

 

[TarrSteps]

Last thought. . .there are many roads to Rome and to some extent you have to stick with the path you choose. It's great to be 'determined' and 'committed' but similarly, you don't want to lose the joy in it, for you or the horse.

 

[kerilli]

OP, lots of good stuff said already, esp by TS.
I'd try a totally different bit because I find that particular Myler mouthpiece a bit sharper than, say, a Sprenger lozenge. The ends of the barrel can slightly pinch the tongue, I think.
Some horses need a bit more telling than others, I think it was Toddy who said you have to be a 'benevolent dictator'. Maybe if you are much stricter with him he will feel comforted by being so channelled. Have you tried the "you can look with your eyes but you CAN'T turn your head" mantra when he's trying to gawp? Former trainer drilled that into me about 1 in particular.
I'd lunge first if you can, then once on if he's looky, I'd do, say, 15-20 mins of trotting without a pause, aiming for relaxation through a bit of tiredness and lots of repetition. This has worked v well for a few I've had. Loads of variations within the pace, changes of direction, keep him thinking, never do more than 10 strides without changing something, keep him guessing a bit, but ONLY about you!
Just another idea or 2 anyway. Good luck.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

If you didn't ever jump the fillers you'd never know whether a horse of a highly self-protective nature would or would not. I also disagree with you about whether I would want a showjumper to think for itself more than a dressage horse.



That just isn't true. For a horse of the kind that I am talking about it is much easier to keep their mind on their work than the flapping advertising banner if the movements come faster. In medium they come much faster than at elementary and my horse enjoyed doing mediums more than elementary and was softer in my hand than doing an elementary because of it. The fact that he was not "ready" to compete (ie win points) at that level did not mean that it was not right to go out and participate with no expectation of a place, and we both enjoyed doing it.




Well you'd never ridden this horse and since no-one else I know would ever get on his back I have no way of judging whether someone could have done a better job than me. My trainer, who also would not ride him, has fond memories of him attempting to leave her indoor school by climbing on top of the double height heston bales of straw out of which the walls were built




Your analysis is grossly over-simplistic.

Your own and your sister's horses sometimes blow up either in training or in competition as you have recorded in other threads. You posted a thread recently asking for advice how to stop your horse doing so. So I'm not sure quite where your experience to tell others that controlling "boogering off" and "spooking" as being "basic if you keep it simple, firm and fair" is coming from.

I am talking about one horse in around forty that I have personally trained in over 30 years, not your average RC horse. I think it is possible that you have not yet met one like it. For your sake I hope you never do, he was more challenge than I ever want to face again. The OPs horse sounds very like him.

sorry to de-rail OP's thread, but............Fig doesnt blow up-he's less than a year off the track and gets understandably tense occasionally (not repeatedly) at shows, he did lose it in his warm up test at Patchetts, NMT kept firmly but calmly putting him back where she asked him to be and he went on to win the qualifier without ever taking his attention off her....
...as for CS, i think he's challenge enough for anyone(!) but has gradually got better all season also culminating in qualifying for the winters, so i dont think there can be any argument that the horses are progressing as the proof as they say is in the pudding.

the OP has had loads of good advice from people who have produced and improved multiple horses and have the results to back up their written word and i hope she is able to put that advice in to practice and get her boy more on side.....it might even help with your horses issues cptrayes, as i think a horse hurling its self over backwards and then having to be draw reined in to submission is a clear indicator the current system is NOT working, especially 2 years down the line.

 

[Tempi]

Hi, hope you are well

Firstly I would turn him away and just give him some time off to chill out, relax and get used to his new surroundings for a good 3-4 weeks at least, i should think his mind is probably blown. Hes green for his age and lacks in confidence and this is his 4th different yard in 18months, im not surprised he is unsettled, even the most seasoned relaxed horse would have trouble coping with so much moving around. (I know the moving isnt your fault, but its a lot for him to take in when he is a naturally nervous horse).

Take some time out, do lots of ground work with him, let him relax and settle and then start by lunging him in the school for a week in about 3 weeks time and go from there, take him back to basics, keep it all very calm and relaxed (as I know you do anyway) and go from there.

I bet he will be a different horse after hes settled in his new environment, just give him time. I know hes tricky and as he is so sensitive he is obviously just very unsettled and nervous, to be honest I dont even think its a dominance thing with him, its all about his nerves and the way he just cant handle certain situations due to the fact that he hasnt had much life experience yet for his age.

Good luck with him, drop me an email if you need anything, or if you want some help I really dont mind popping over to see you both sometime.

 

[cptrayes]

so i dont think there can be any argument that the horses are progressing as the proof as they say is in the pudding.

Just as my horse was massively improved by the exercise I suggested to the OP, PS. The proof was in the pudding.

It might even help with your horses issues cptrayes, as i think a horse hurling its self over backwards and then having to be draw reined in to submission is a clear indicator the current system is NOT working, especially 2 years down the line.

You're such a caring sweetheart PS, wanting to help me with my problems, aren't you ?


"firmly but calmly" were not the words used to describe controlling Fig after shooting off in a canter transition by someone who watched the test you mention and told me about it. So can we agree that as neither of us has seen or ridden the other's horses, or seen the other ride, that neither of us are really in a position to make judgements?

 

[cptrayes]

Sorry, the test I was told about was at the Regionals. You are referring to a different test where he also went to pieces. Then produced a really good second test. Just what my own youngster did last time out

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Just as my horse was massively improved by the exercise I suggested to the OP, PS. The proof was in the pudding.



You're such a caring sweetheart PS, wanting to help me with my problems, aren't you ?


"firmly but calmly" were not the words used to describe controlling Fig after shooting off in a canter transition by someone who watched the test you mention and told me about it. So can we agree that as neither of us has seen or ridden the other's horses, or seen the other ride, that neither of us are really in a position to make judgements?

No, i only care about the horse, HE sounds like a sweetheart.

BD records are easy to find and comparisions are interesting arent they

 

[alidegg]

No, i only care about the horse, HE sounds like a sweetheart.

BD records are easy to find and comparisions are interesting arent they

HAHA! "Like".

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

HAHA! "Like".

Pleasure, and i wish you delightful, if eyebrow raising reading.........

 

[nikkimariet]

Just as my horse was massively improved by the exercise I suggested to the OP, PS. The proof was in the pudding.



You're such a caring sweetheart PS, wanting to help me with my problems, aren't you ?


"firmly but calmly" were not the words used to describe controlling Fig after shooting off in a canter transition by someone who watched the test you mention and told me about it. So can we agree that as neither of us has seen or ridden the other's horses, or seen the other ride, that neither of us are really in a position to make judgements?

Sorry, the test I was told about was at the Regionals. You are referring to a different test where he also went to pieces. Then produced a really good second test. Just what my own youngster did last time out

CPT, since you have taken the time, effort and pleasure to involve me in this thread....let me take the time, effort and pleasure to respond

The proof really is in the pudding. You only have to compare Fig and A in terms of training and of competing to recognize that

I disagree about the way I handled Fig at the Regionals (see thread here, for as you earlier pointed out, some of my competitions are documented on this forum: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=552235)

I said 'Canter = disaster, we reached K on the right rein where he changed, changed back, went disunited and then towed me off at a fairly decent speed over to R. Meant to be doing a 20m circle at E mind, so pirouetted at last moment (really took all my strength to do so).' I would say that was a firm reaction; I took as much of a pull was needed to change his direction (he is very quick, very strong and I wasn't massively keen on him continuing his tangent out the arena boards which is on a hill). Since you've voiced your concerns regarding my weight, you'd do well to assume I am not a strong person/rider....I'd couldn't pull the back teeth out a spider, never mind a horse! I would definitely describe my reaction as a calm one. I didn't cry/shout out. I didn't panic. I brought him back to walk, and then we picked up the movement again. Fyi, ALL the judges commented 'well handled'

"So can we agree that as neither of us has seen or ridden the other's horses, or seen the other ride, that neither of us are really in a position to make judgements?"

You say that...whilst judging my riding....based on someone elses opinion? Riiiight. By the by, I have seen you ride. And based on my judgement of that, you won't be getting offered a ride on Fig. Ever.

The only similarity between our horses is that they are both sharp. A is an expensive, purpose bred import you've had for 2 years. Fig is an an ex-racer from Oz I've had for just over 9 months. And look where we both are with them....

And as PS points out, it is *interesting* to compare competition records

 

[TarrSteps]

Sigh.

Anyway, OP, let us know how you get on. As discussed, there are often different answers to the same problem, even for the same horse at different times. That's part of the fun of it.