Oscar
Well-Known Member
You might need to combine the bute test with GastroGuard as if she does have ulcers the bute will aggravate it. But your vet will advise.
I've had one by va tout, not a mare but everything had to be on his terms - and routine, routine, routine, he was sharp as a pin and although talented was mostly very frustrating!. My current rising five year old gelding's dam's sire is va tout and couldn't be more different. Amenable, will do anything for you and is happy to do anything new - great work ethic - it's like he's already read the book. His Sire is by Hohenstein so a great temperament which he seems to have inherited. His maternal sister is highly talented, but does seem much much sharper than him.
He's not by Harvard, by any chance? I really like Hohenstein horses and they do seem to bring good temperament to the party.
Don't get me wrong, I am very pro-Trakehner, but if you know about the breed it's easy to see why they have the characteristics they do and one of them is toughness!
An interesting thread! My mare sounds like she has a similar attitude to PS and Pigeons horses. She is talented but has her own agenda and I have to be careful about choosing my arguments! Ask too much and she will tell me where to go in no uncertain terms; ask too little and she will quite happily trundle along offering minimum effort. I am fiddling around with feeds at the moment as I am beginning to think that her lack of willingness at times may be due to lack of energy but it will be very hard to get the balance right as I don't want her heating up and becoming even sharper, plus she's a good doer so don't want something that will pile the weight on!
Although she is difficult at times she has taught me SO much more than any other horse. She tests me and pushes me and I know will make me a better rider.
You might be surprised! One of the spookiest,most fearful horses I've ever met - bred by the Trakehner breeders I worked for at the time and pretty true to his breeding - was a successful 3* horse! As a group they were quite a spooky, tough bunch but they've produced some very successful horses - an Olympic medalist, a couple of Adv horses, a PanAm medalist. A current mare of theirs had her last foal of 4 in 2011 and did a CIC3* this spring!
None of with is really the point but I don't think "trainable" or "competitive" is the same as "easy". I think this can be a problem assessing approval scores etc - people see high trainability and ridability scores and think that translates to a "nice" horse but that isn't really what they are testing.
Anyway, moot for your purposes. I do think it's had though, if you've had a horse from scratch and got into a certain dynamic, to think of the horse in a different way. I find this even with horses I've started - I tend not to push them in the same way someone who comes to them fresh might.
It does sound like Thursday was just a bad day.
ive had to teach mine to have a work ethic.
he came to me as a 4yo, having raced a few times as a 2/3yo but seriously jacked it in-wouldnt go in the stalls, wouldnt come out, kept napping and standing up and then broncing his work rider off etc etc.
he was reasonably easy to re-back but genuine forward, in front of the leg, movement was a no no and he spent about 6 months standing up in every transition.
over his 5/6/7yo years he improved but was still hugely unpredictable both at home and in the ring. He could score 65-68% one week and be eliminated or retired for napping the next.
He does the most vile manouvres, almost props to a stop with his back arched and jumps vertically off all 4 feet but travels backwards in the air and then rears and does 360 on his back legs.
I really tried to get to the bottom of him physically and mentally as an 8yo-enough was enough and i do feel ive made some big steps forward.
He's a cold, idle, backward thinking horse and he's miles better at a show if the day before is spent bombing round in a light seat canter, being encouraged to buck and squeal and mess around. I have to put some *goodwill tokens* in the pot so the next day at the show ive got a little bit of it to fall back on-if i drill him too much he will tell me quite clearly to go swivel!
he doesnt hack except on very still,hot,summer days (too sharp and dangerous almost) and isnt a huge fan of poles(refuses to jump at all really) but he's a very cocky brave horse and ive done a lot of work in the last few months using spooky objects (big tarpaulins, a tunnel of fillers with flapping bags on, umbrellas in buckets etc) to work round, trying to encourage him to peep and puff up and piaffe a bit so he learns to turn negative tension in to positive work. He likes this as it gives him a chance to show how big and brave he is and also teaches him not to nap and drop behind my leg if he is unsure about something.
he resents being niggled or tickled with a long whip so i tend to carry a short whip for the first 10mins of my warm up, give him a good belt at the first sign of napping, and then put it down. The longer i carry it the more likely he is to try and drop me when i do put it down-memory of an elephant.
he is fed like a 3 day eventer, lots of quick release enery food. He needs to feel well in himself and really *buzzy* or he isnt interested in working.
You need to find out what makes her tick an try and let her have it her way when it doesnt matter so she digs a bit deeper for you when it does. Thinking that they have to do it your way 100% of the time doesnt work with these sorts.
Mine is 9yo now, has qual regionals and area festival champs at psg, done his first inter 1 and is schooling GP.
ETA-you may never eradicate it, in his last test (inter 1) he mistakenly tried to ext canter off the corner when we should have been collecting for a piri, i over half halted and he stopped and then kicked back with both legs like "F U stupid woman what do you want"...........he came round again and stopped and thought about going up but then decided to give me another chance.
i do have to be careful to hold my hand up and let him know when its me at fault.
And to add to the above, Daytona, your last horse is doing another job in different job and you're going great guns with your current horse. So neither of you were 'bad' it was just a bad fit.
Yup totally , it was not meant to be, not his fault , not my fault.
Just a incorrect match. Just wished it never took me 2 years to realise it
Hey oh you live you learn.
In the past 6 months I've had a total swing round of view on horses, I've always been one for sticking with it.
Having spent many years struggling with "naughty" horses, or horses I did not get along with, could not handle personally I'd just sell her if she was mine.
As long as you ruled out pain etc, if she is not doing what you want to do and youre constantly feeling disappointed, for me I'd now just cut my losses and buy something that will do what I want it to do.
I've had a bellyful of battling with these big animals, recently I feel I've seen the light.
I've just moved him to DIY so I can have total control over his feed. I would be really grateful if you could tell me what you're feeding and how much?
OP - as above, I obviously haven't rectified the situation entirely yet with my horse. He prefers more difficult work so I almost have to trick him into the basics. I do a lot of stuff in walk first, turn on the haunches, spiral in and out etc. I'll then do something like walk piris straight into trot, but only for half a circle, then back into walk. Sort of ease him into it.
When we do go up a pace I spend a lot of time in shoulder-in, travers, leg-yield/half-pass zig zags etc so that he starts to go move off my leg without realising it, as it were. He is happier doing lateral work than me pushing him forward in straight lines initially, because he objects to being *made* to do stuff but somehow doesn't seem to twig that being asked to move sideways off my leg is not too dissimilar to going forward off it. So, I work around it, and then when his attitude starts to change I can generally ask for more collection without him objecting and throwing his toys out.
Have you tried doing something exciting like flying changes or even simple changes? Something that generally hots them up a bit. I'm just guessing but suspect she might be bored, if you spent 6 weeks just on halting. Perhaps you could benefit from trying to do more advanced work? A lot of horses seem to perk up a bit when it provides a bit more mental stimulation for them. The 101 dressage exercises book has some good ones to try if you need inspiration. Might not work at all but could be worth trying!
It's a hard thing to admit to yourself, but both you and the horse are happy and doing well now so it was obviously the right choice!!
It's the same choice looming in front of the op. How much do you put in to training etc before you decide that it isn't the right partnership? It's a tough call that only the rider can make.
Sorry to thread hijack OP, but this is exactly my thoroughbred down to the smallest detail. Idle, evasive, hates being tickled with a whip (will just grind to a halt and buck, pin ears, whatever) etc etc. The only difference is that he loves jumping. He's competing at Medium but the last 4 months he's been awful and he still isn't in front of my leg, I have to push to get the movements. I've just moved him to DIY so I can have total control over his feed. I would be really grateful if you could tell me what you're feeding and how much?
OP - as above, I obviously haven't rectified the situation entirely yet with my horse. He prefers more difficult work so I almost have to trick him into the basics. I do a lot of stuff in walk first, turn on the haunches, spiral in and out etc. I'll then do something like walk piris straight into trot, but only for half a circle, then back into walk. Sort of ease him into it.
When we do go up a pace I spend a lot of time in shoulder-in, travers, leg-yield/half-pass zig zags etc so that he starts to go move off my leg without realising it, as it were. He is happier doing lateral work than me pushing him forward in straight lines initially, because he objects to being *made* to do stuff but somehow doesn't seem to twig that being asked to move sideways off my leg is not too dissimilar to going forward off it. So, I work around it, and then when his attitude starts to change I can generally ask for more collection without him objecting and throwing his toys out.
Have you tried doing something exciting like flying changes or even simple changes? Something that generally hots them up a bit. I'm just guessing but suspect she might be bored, if you spent 6 weeks just on halting. Perhaps you could benefit from trying to do more advanced work? A lot of horses seem to perk up a bit when it provides a bit more mental stimulation for them. The 101 dressage exercises book has some good ones to try if you need inspiration. Might not work at all but could be worth trying!
he gets 2.25 scoops of havens slobbermash (dry weight) soaked overnight,. 1 scoop winergy high energy,2 scoops soaked oats and 2 mugs charnwood milling linseed. split in to 3 feeds.
he also gets half a scoop alfa a oil before work to line his stomach.
plus suppleaze gold, alcar and egusin.