How do you shoot a head shy horse?

[Tankey]

[ QUOTE ]
MFH - I know this may not be the time to say it, but your comment really did make me giggle out loud.

TT - winching them up into the wagon is fine. It isn't awful at all; at least I've never seen anything horrid about it. Crikey one of our mares who died unassisted on a Bank Holiday, had to be lifted and kept in the tractor bucket overnight so the wolves wouldn't eat her. I had to put the trailer ties underneath her, she'd already gone into rigour mortis within minutes of her death, and then bring the tractor over to her, attach the ties to the tractor and sort of sweep her along the ground until I could get her into the bucket. Then she had to be left in the bucket way up high in the barn and then she was buried the next day on the farm as couldn't get knackers out. She blew up and started to stink so there was no way she could have remained above ground for another 2 days.

[/ QUOTE ]LMAO Tia

 

[YorksG]

Our knackerlady has now got a policy of NOT allowing owners to watch the winching on the waggon, after one woman threw herself on the body and refused to let go

She told us this tale the last time we met professionaly

 

[Tankey]

[ QUOTE ]
No where in any of my posts did i say that i wouldnt put him to sleep if he was in pain, however i would not put a bullet in his head, i would have the injection given to him (in my opinion this is a more dignified way)

if i was given the option i would bury him, i would visit his grave every day and cry my eyes out, im finding it so hard to hold back the tears reading this topic, thinking about that awful day!

[/ QUOTE ]Best you stop reading then and carry on with your Enid Blyton books then

 

[Tia]

Daretodream; you're just young aren't you? And you've never seen a horse being put to sleep? Not by the gun, nor by injection? One day you will, so this discussion, even though you are finding it upsetting, will be of great use to you one day

. And just to let you know, there is nothing dignified about having a horse killed - injection is not nice, gun is not nice.

 

[Tankey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We have brick stables so there is going to be a bit of a problem if he croaks it in his sleep

[/ QUOTE ] Perhaps he better start living out in anticipation of his sad demise!

[/ QUOTE ]This may be a good plan , and save me a small fortune on straw

 

[nic85]

[ QUOTE ]
, I was just pissed off that it had taken 2 days to get those bloody shoes on him and they were only a week old!

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha!! One of the horse at college was PTS after a nasty bout of colic and as he was removed from stable a lecturer was heard to say

"Jeez, hes only been shod a week, get those shoes off him!"

Well she was the hard nut!!

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
No where in any of my posts did i say that i wouldnt put him to sleep if he was in pain, however i would not put a bullet in his head, i would have the injection given to him (in my opinion this is a more dignified way)

if i was given the option i would bury him, i would visit his grave every day and cry my eyes out, im finding it so hard to hold back the tears reading this topic, thinking about that awful day!

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound very young.
As you get older, you will become more used to the idea of death, in animals and in people, and unfortunately will experience the death of many.
And you'll also understand that different people have equally different ideas about what is respectful and appropriate; it is best to accept what they want, if you don't want to upset them.
Sometimes it is better to save your energies for the living, rather than grieving for the dead.
S

 

[brighthair]

[ QUOTE ]
No where in any of my posts did i say that i wouldnt put him to sleep if he was in pain, however i would not put a bullet in his head, i would have the injection given to him (in my opinion this is a more dignified way)

if i was given the option i would bury him, i would visit his grave every day and cry my eyes out, im finding it so hard to hold back the tears reading this topic, thinking about that awful day!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to lie, for me it was f**king awful. I gave him the best goodbye I could and I mourned him in my own way. By having a personalised numberplate with his name on

so I remember him every day and a great photo. I can still cry over him of course - especially atm when I am looking for a new horse and it's not going well! I prefer to remember him as he was and mourn him the way he was - dignified.

 

[merlinsquest]

I would like to think that my horse could have a better end than my Nan did......

She broke her hip and because she was 98 and on warfarin they could not operate immediately.... by the time she was ready she had pneumonia

It took her three weeks to die..... in pain with a still broken hip, unable to breathe properly and knowing that she was going to die

If Merlin has a crisis like this.... and one day, be it accident or age, it will happen.... at least I know that with no doubt, it will be over immediately.

I know which ending I would rather partake in

I am leaning more towards the gun after seeing a program about the way that criminals are executed on Death Row.

Apparently the first injection kind of paralyzes you, but the second one, the one that kills you, feels like you are having boiling fluid injected through your veins

Not sure how they come to this conclusion, except sometimes when aneasthetics go wrong and people are awake but unable to move.... this is what they have said it feels like

 

[brighthair]

oh and I believe one day a horse will come along who is different to him in every way but I'll love as much. I gave up riding for 4 years after he went, but hell, there's more horses out there that need my care. At least I hope another decent horse will come along or I'm going to drown my sorrows soon in a litre of vodka

 

[TGM]

Actually you weren't talking about what YOU would do, but about what other people choose:

[ QUOTE ]
all people think of their horse is to put a bullet in its head and feed it to the hounds when its old and done is greatly disturbing IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this disturbing? You say that you agree that putting a horse to sleep when it is terminally ill is OK, so what difference to the horse whether it is by bullet or injection? And once the horse is deceased, does it matter whether it goes to the hounds, the zoo or ends up in a casket? It may make YOU happier to have him cremated or buried, but doesn't make a happorth of difference to the horse once he is dead!

 

[JoLane]

I think it's important to plan for these occasions because it's going to happen some day! Here's a thought though - my companion ex racer/brood mare was due to be shot as no longer wanted by owner after having had her for nearly all her life and raced her and had about a billion foals from her.. anyway I wonder if anyone would have remembered to tell the nominated gunman that she has a metal plate in her head??!! I have a sick fantasy that - if the event had gone ahead and I hadn't had her - that the owner had gone along to watch the event. The word ricochet springs to mind!!

 

[Doris68]

I do wish that I could be that 'matter-of fact' about the inevitable demise of my horse. She has been with me for nearly 19 years (since she was 4) and I really do not know how I will react.

I accept that when you have had many horses passing through your hands/lives, that you need to take a much more hard-nosed attitude - you have to - it's business and if you started to 'sentimentalise' each animal - then it would be very difficult.

Me.......I'm just a big softie and doubt that I could have my horse shot - but that's just me, soft-centred and completely pathetic. Sorry!

 

[FinnishLapphund]

[ QUOTE ]
also you wouldn't put a bullet in your granny's head either would you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have if it had been legal, when it took about 2 weeks or more for her to die without any life-support except painkilling stuff, that NOBODY knew if she got to little, enough or to much off, because she wasn't "contactable" anymore.



Last summer my Jonna had puppies, there was 3 and two stayed so I only sold one. One of the times I did discuss with the puppy-buyer about "The End" and they appreciated it, because they have an older dog and though they had already talked about getting him cremated to be able to spread his ash in the water where he loves to swim, but they were grateful because I knew a few things they hadn't thought about.




And <font color="blue">Ester</font>, caps can equal shouting on a forum, but if you only use it for one or a few words, it can also be read as the one writing wanting to emphasize those words. You could also use [+b+] before the word/words and [+/+b+] after to make it bold, I put + between so I hope it will show and just not disappear and make the text bold.





Personally I think it's great that you plan ahead Dame Tankey.

 

[Tia]

You know when I was reading your thread the other day JoML, exactly the same thought came into my head too! I don't know if you saw the photos I postes but its the same with a horse who lives here who had a massive hole in her head - skin sealed over now but I always think that if she is ever sold she should come with a warning as she is missing a heck of a lot of skull there and as such, the bullet would just come flying out of the skin! She's one horse I wouldn't stand and hold for knacker man!

 

[daretodream]

Im 17 (not that young)

i was on work exp at a equine vets last feb, i watched the vet struggle to take of a cast on the horses back leg (the smell was awful) and the owner waiting on the vet saying "shes gona be ok" but unfortunately he said there was nothing else he could to, the leg was beyond help, she chose to have the horse PTS by injection (they done this in the lunging pen) i choose not to watch this, i felt it tough enough watching the girl standing hoping her horse was gona be ok, when they decided to have the mare PTS i cried my eyes out and i didnt even no the horse or the girl!

i just find death extremely hard to deal with

 

[Tankey]

Thomas is the only horse i have ever owned and probably ever will...he has been with me for 19 years now.....
I have never been there when a horse is PTS so dont know what to expect, but I know one day it will happen.

I am surprised this isnt discussed more often tbh

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
Im 17 (not that young)

i was on work exp at a equine vets last feb, i watched the vet struggle to take of a cast on the horses back leg (the smell was awful) and the owner waiting on the vet saying "shes gona be ok" but unfortunately he said there was nothing else he could to, the leg was beyond help, she chose to have the horse PTS by injection (they done this in the lunging pen) i choose not to watch this, i felt it tough enough watching the girl standing hoping her horse was gona be ok, when they decided to have the mare PTS i cried my eyes out and i didnt even no the horse or the girl!

i just find death extremely hard to deal with

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't deal with it, then you shouldn't have animals.
Death follows life, it is inevitable.
Either you spend your time grieving miserably for horses which are beyond your reach, or you enjoy life.
S

 

[YorksG]

It is not a business for me, just had horses since I was a child. My Old Appy mare was with us for 23 years and I was devastated that she died, but I could not have forced her through another winter. Her best friend had been with us for 20 years and had to be shot in the stable following a stroke (no we didn't get the vet) It was a decision made for her, not me. I have never sold a horse, when they come through our gate we know that they will leave on the knackerwomans waggon the last time they go.

 

[Tia]

So no you haven't seen a horse being killed then.

To be honest, you going off was the best thing you could have done, because if you had been at my yard bawling your eyes out for one of MY horses being killed, I'd have chucked you off. Sorry but I have no time for that, although I do understand that you are young and haven't the experience; it just wouldn't matter to me, no-one cries when our horses are put to sleep, we are happy and chatty to them right up till the minute they are pronounced dead.

 

[DuckToller]

Hmm, that's food for thought MQ. Had pony pts by injection years ago, but more recently gone for the gun option.

Gave my old mare to the local big cat sanctuary, once she was pts by vet of course, but the chap couldn't face chainsawing up such a big animal again so didn't want any more (sorry, too much info for the squeamish, if they are still with us

).

Our local knackermen, Holts, have always been totally professional. They calmly walked up to the pony, made a fuss and gave a polo or two, then I walked away (yes, copped out) and the job was done.

I think if you are emotionally involved then it's best to walk away, but I have stood and held someone else's horse.

Tia - why not let wolves do the job? Just wondered...

 

[nicnag]

Unfortunately no one who owns a horse can guarantee that they won't have to make this decision at some point. It's never going to be nice or pleasant but it can be as well organised as possible in advance (whether you have a young horse or old pensioner) as when the time comes there is no guarantee that you are going to be in any state to make those decisions then, nobody knows how they will react until it happens. all liverys on my yard are asked to leave instructions and written permission for their horses to be PTS and disposed of should they be unavailable - this came about after the owners of an old pony couldn't cope with it all and 'disappeared' leaving us to make the decisions, carryout the euthanasia and disposal. All could have been a lot easier with a plan.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently the first injection kind of paralyzes you, but the second one, the one that kills you, feels like you are having boiling fluid injected through your veins

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard about that to MQ, but I've also heard that they've determined it by some study (I presume on animals, but if it can save other animals from suffering...) and that the USA veterinarians doesn't use the second substance when euthanizing animals anymore due to it being against the laws about cruelty to animals. But humans doesn't count under that law...

 

[Laafet]

QR - TT thankyou for raising a very important subject. I have already got a plan for my horses for old age/emergency. I wish, if possible for my horses to go to the hunt. This is particularly important for Murphy as he loved hunting and our hunt get one of the staff to blow the horn one last time while the deed is being done. This distracts the horse and as Murph still responds positively to the horn then I think is a fitting memorial for him.
I had a horrific experience with the death of one of my horses, I had experience putting horses to sleep as part of working with horses but never one of my own, Murphy is my first horse and I thought he'd go first. However Maytime colicked badly and it became clear that she was not going to survive. The vet was still suggesting that we tried to load my poor half dead mare when I asked her to put her to sleep. She could not get up and was in a lot of pain, travelling her, given she didn't load well anyway and was not capable of standing at that point was just inhumane. I was annoyed that the vet had to use the injection as they do not routinely carry the gun but I did not want her to suffer any more so she had the injection. She 'breathed' for a long time after which I found very distressing. But worse was the removal. The vet organised someone to come and collect her, I was at uni so had very little money so the thought of having her cremated was not one I could contemplate. The poor chap turned up and it became clear that his vehicle was inadequate, it was his first day on the job for a well known abbatoir. We had to drag my mare using a four wheel drive to the gateway as the lorry did not fit in the field. This was bad enough and not a nice sight, ok she was dead but that was not the point. Then the winch did not work properly and I was asked to sit in the lorry with my foot on the brake as the hand brake was not working. Then the farmer, driver and some builders who had arrived at the farm to do some work but could not get in as the knacker van was blocking the drive, had to manhandle my mare onto the lorry, it took the winch and 5 big men to get a 16.2hh large build mare onto the lorry and I was beside myself, having to sit in the wagon which stank of death.
It is because of this horrific experience that I have tried to be prepared for the future. I know my horses will not live forever and I have absolutely no desire to keep their ashes, when they are gone they are gone. An old friend of mine had 5 boxes of ashes in her house and I am sure it did not help her mental state.
I have also seen some horrendous sights from the lethal injection too, my first ever time racing I saw a horse killed in this way and it went into gallop mode as it lay on the gravel for what seemed like forever. When it stopped, its body was torn to pieces. I still think the gun is quickest.

 

[Maesfen]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it copping out??
I dont think I want to see my horse being dragged about by chains with his tongue hanging out....i will go and make everyone a cup of tea

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry TT, probably a bad choice of words but I just feel if you have livestock of any description, it behoves you to see things out to the end whether it's pleasant or not; it's just something that has to be got through and I am responsible for. I feel the vet that advised that person to stay away 'because it's not very pleasant' didn't exactly encourage them to be practical and responsible.

Tia: Some years back, a livery had a stroke in the night. By the time vet and owner arrived, it was pretty obvious what needed to be done so vet had to go back to surgery for the gun; I had to ring the kennels, who luck had it couldn't help as they had an inspection on the Monday (it was Saturday) and they were overflowing with flesh, they had nowhere to put him, so I rang local slaughterers only to find they had shut the office at noon (it was ten-past!) and nobody could come out for the body until the Monday. Horse could not wait until then so we had to take him onto the old railway line and shoot him there. The other horses came to the fence to watch, never moved away when the gun went off, just sniffed the air for a while then slowly went to graze again. After my OH had taken off his shoes (we were getting them chromed for owner) we covered him over with tarpaulins and weighted him down with blocks, sleepers, anything heavy as we didn't want the foxes or badgers to get at him. It was horrid having this huge hump there until Monday morning but nothing got at him and there was nothing else we could do about it; when driver arrived he actually gave me his mobile number in case it ever happened again as he would have come out on the Saturday if he had known. So I can understand your bucket job, just some things you have to do.

 

[Stinkbomb]

[ QUOTE ]
The last time my Tb girl colicked, and seemed very poorly, I asked the dealer on the yard if I could put her in one of his stables, as my three are all down a level, with a wall and earth embankment next to them.
The dealer, thankfully, is quite switched on, after asking me how old the horse was, he sussed and lent me a box.
Thankfully, my mare was just being a drama queen and is still with me.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wish at the time id been realistic. I thought he was going to be ok as he responded well to the drugs but very quickly went downhill, got down (ontop of me, i had to be dragged out the way ) and struggled violently and got himself cast in the doorway, nightmare. The vet was running up the yard to call the equine hospital to refer him, and i just screamed for him to PTS immediatley. I couldnt bare it anylonger seeing him banging his head on the concrete floor

Had no choice but to do it there

If id have know how quickly it would have happened would have kept him outside

I am very surprised we didnt have to dismantle the stable though.

Gald your mare was ok Shils

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
Tia - why not let wolves do the job? Just wondered...

[/ QUOTE ]
My place was open to the public and had loads of trail riders up that weekend. No way could I have left a dead horse lying around the farm. She was absolutely stinking in the heat anyhow, and she was bloated like you wouldn't believe, the next morning.

I had a lot of foals too, so can't encourage wolves to come down to the farmhouse and further back on the farm, trail riders and boarders would have come across her ...

... however, the little ditty to this is that hubby did not dig the hole for her deep enough!

I stayed out of the woods that she was buried in for a couple of weeks to let the ground settle a little. Really didn't want trail riders asking about her. Anyhow when I did go down into those woods again, I had 4 riders with me and as I went passed where she was buried I saw a huge hole where the wolves had dug down!

I steered the ride well away from the mound but my giant Spotty Horse, who was 2 behind me decided it was something new and took his rider right over to the hole!

I went to go get him back and saw her legs had been chewed and bits were missing ... there was also a tonne of flies living down there ... yuck! The rider had an experience, lol! And was a bit green around the gills when we returned to the farmhouse. BUT she came back again ... two more times, Lol!

 

[ester]

would just like to mention that anyone who puts their horse on loan should make sure that they leave permission with the loanee to PTS (and prob YO aswell if you are on livery and on hol/uncontactable?)

The worse thing I have ever seen was when a horse on loan to the riding school went down with a brain tumour- rapidly, I rode him on the sunday, he was dead on tuesday. The owner was rung and insisted on seeing him one last time and IMO this was selfish, the horse was in a lot of pain but she wouldn't give permission to PTS until she had seen him.

I had a loan horse at home for a bit, I made sure I had permission if the owner could not be contacted and she trusted me/vet to make an appropriate decision

 

[Tankey]

Dont apologise to me..i was just wondering.
I am finding peoples views on this really interesting

 

[JoLane]

Really? Was that a kick too? Have you had probs with infections etc? Excellent glad to know I'm not the only one with a holey headed horse!!!