How flat are these feet? **pics**

I haven't read all these posts but we have had a similar problem with our event horse who is nearly full TB. She suffered a loss of performance SJ and was found to be lame when examined by our vet but it was so slight that no one had spotted it. X rays etc showed slight coffin joint problem in one foot and slight heel pain in the other. The vet told us to have bar shoes put on and medicated both coffin joints. She was still not quite right so we now have wedged pads as well as the bar shoes. It took a little while to settle but she is fine again now. She needs shoing every 4 weeks and we have her on biotin as well.

Best of luck with yours.
 
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Eggbars are a nice idea if, and only if, you can keep the buggers on!! I tried them on one of mine and he just couldn't keep them on, even with overreach boots all round. In the end, the damage done to the hoof wall by him ripping them off every week was greater than the benefit. I opted for Natural Balance wide web rolled shoes and they are really good.



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Same here with my tbx.
 
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NAILED you are more intrested in me, than the horse. anything i say will be torn apart by you.. you seem to think that a horse with no,underrun, colapsed heels, high flare, long toes, can be shod with no major ajustments to hoof shape. so have a think, and let the forum know what you would do before you nailed on the shoes, there has to be something you would do. and into what would you nail the next shoes. just think. i will p m the owner with detailed rehab methods

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what about everyone else who may be interested in what you have to say?
 
hehe I would have said 'dont flatter your self sweet heart' but was beaten to it.

You dont know me.. You dont interest me.. But what does annoy me is that you are unwilling to add you advise apart from slating what tohers have said/suggested. I also find it quite interesting that you will not say wether or not you are DipWCF... which suggests your not.

Please please please dont patronise me.

I came on this thread to have Fiona with the issues she is encountering.. not to have a slanging match with someone.

If you were willing to write here what you would do.. it would not be torn appart.. i may disagree (I MAY EVEN AGREE! HEAVEN FORBID!) but i wont tear it apart if it makes sense.

I hope Fiona posts the PM she receives from you so that we may all benefit from your advise.

Lou x
 
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At the risk of add ing more expense and fear mongering to your concerns you might want to contact an ostepath or similar.

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I have had Rocky checked every 2 months for the last year by a chiro - she had to initially do a lot of work with him; knees, shoulders, hips - but the last time she came (2 weeks ago) she said it is the best she has ever seen him and she didnt have much to do at all
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I wouldn't be at all happy if those were my horse's feet and if I had been using the same farrier for some time (as opposed to just having moved to one who is trying to sort out someone elses past work), I think I would be inclined to change.

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I have only had this farrier for a year and he has come highly recommended in the area. To be honest I have only had Rocky for a year and a half! xx
 
ok... so I have been to the shops and I am now armed with Naf Pro Feet and Hoof Moist!!!!

Thank you all again for your posts whilst I have been out! I will let you know if Rocky is lame when I go down tonight!

Note - I have not had any PM's with suggestions from HS but HS if you are still willing on sending me some suggestions I would be interested. To be honest I don't see why it cant be put publicly on the forum as it seems there are quite a few people with similar problems as mine who may benefit from seeing another point of view?

xx
 
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has he been lame constantly since April or did he come right then go lame again?

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He came right - as we went and did a dressage test, had our normal lessons, hacks etc then came lame!
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xx
 
In that case hopefully its just an issue with his feet, shoeing, your farrier is giving it a fair shot so just give it a few days and see what vet says.
 
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has he been lame constantly since April or did he come right then go lame again?

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He came right - as we went and did a dressage test, had our normal lessons, hacks etc then came lame!
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xx

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I have to say, Rocky, that if you are having soundness issues that have been ongoing it really is time to get a lameness work up done. These will, most likely, include nerve blocks, x-rays and possibly scans - so going to cost you a bit. But it's only with the aid of these diagnostic tools that you and your farrier are going to know how best to proceed.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what you put on the foot, if the essential structure is compromised, then corrective farriery is the only way to proceed.

It's certainly what I'd do in your shoes (and in fact, just have).
 
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I have to say, Rocky, that if you are having soundness issues that have been ongoing it really is time to get a lameness work up done.

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I have had all but the xrays done. We did nerve blocks before and they were inconclusive really. She nerve blocked the heel and he came sound so vet thought issue with coffin joint. Vet said to my farrier on Friday that if he did not come sound after this shoeing then xrays it is.
 
Have trotted Rocky up tonight and he is much much better. Have also fed him all his new supplements/hoof treatments
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I will try a little plod up the road tomorrow and see how he is.

Thanks to everyone for all advice/help/suggestions today - it has given me hope that I have been doing the right thing, and that I am continuing to do the right thing.

Fiona xx
 
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I have to say, Rocky, that if you are having soundness issues that have been ongoing it really is time to get a lameness work up done.

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I have had all but the xrays done. We did nerve blocks before and they were inconclusive really. She nerve blocked the heel and he came sound so vet thought issue with coffin joint. Vet said to my farrier on Friday that if he did not come sound after this shoeing then xrays it is.

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Good news. He'll come right for you - it just takes time. Good luck x
 
i would say the heel look weak and under run.
i think you have to give it 9-12months to see a new hoof coming through
egg bar shoes are often good to use short term.
i would say the biggest thing is getting the vet and farrier together to ensure they are singing from the same page.

my mare had very bad flares and flat feet with soles that flexed under pressure

now 12 months on with a combination of 4 week visits and shoes/shoe free, her feet look completely different!

good luck- feet are a patience game.
 
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i would say that the nails are through t he sensative laminae, and perhaps very, very near the bone.

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Are you taking the p!ss?
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Horse would be absolutely, literally crippled, bleeding from the foot and certainly not standing there quietly. Farrier would certainly not have been able to get more than ONE nail in 'near the bone'
Credibility... Nil.
 
when a horse has stretched laminae caused by high flare, the stretched laminae dies, all of this material can be removed back into the dead laminae, this is done as standard by vet,s to remove havens for bacteria ,w line desease etc.
i often resect dorsal wall to find nail damage deep into the laminae , and often clipping bone edge.
the sensative laminae extends down to the where the white line starts, that is at the top of the sole.
in a horse with flat or thin soles, the sensative laminae is very low down, and get,s nailed.
the only reason i am bothering to post this is because you obviously dont know what you think you know. if you study the subject ,you will get a shock. before you answer me with a load of abuse, have a look at some pictures of horses feet,
i would bet that you did ,nt know how high up the white line went, and where the sensative laminae started. be honest.
 
I haven't had time to read all the replies, but I get the gist of the arguement.

FWIW my two penneth worth ...

1. The feet are poor in quality and collapsed at the heel giving a poor hoof pastern axis - this will cause a lot of problems down the line if you don't address it properly now (which it sounds like you are starting to do)
2. I wouldn't be happy that your farrier has left it this long to start changing the shoeing, to that end I would be looking to change to a good remedial farrier
3. I would get the vet out and have some x-rays done, just so that you can really see what you are dealing with
4. From your pictures the egg bars put on aren't an awful job but I think your farrier could have been braver and set the shoe slightly further back. However it sometimes pays to make these shoeing changes gradually, a huge cange can lead to a crippled horse
5. I would ask for eqi=pak for the next 3-4 shoeings
6. Might be worth also investing in a good hoof supplement
 
Oh dear. Im not getting into what I know and what I dont with you. I dont really care. And I dont understand why you've just aimed all of this at me to be honest... Just because I identified you as a barefoot trimmer after a single post.

Lets me honest shall we. You want to suggest that this horse goes barefoot, have the heels and frog on the floor, allow the circulation to improve.. allowing the heels to stop recceding! A great route.. if the hoof quality is any good, which blatently is not the case with this horse. Im sorry if you dont like this.

As to hoof capsule anatomy.. What I know/dont know is head nor tail in this arguement.. really it is.

Lou x
 
Hello? Where did I abuse you? I suggested you didn't know what you were talking about, and I don't believe you. Just as you are suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about. Does that make us quits?
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I don't wish to argue with you. I just find your argument very implausible and I AM off to look at some pictures of horse's feet so I can learn more.
Did you ever answer Nailed's questions about your qualifications, btw?
 
'i often resect dorsal wall to find nail damage deep into the laminae , and often clipping bone edge.'

how can you tell it is nail damage as opposed to other damage? how many dorsal wall resections do you do? how often is often, statistically significant?
 
i do one day every week in an equine hospital, i do on average 2or3resections in a day as well as other laminitis related work.
nail damage can be clearly seen as a rusty and black line/hole. it can easly be seen on an x ray, as can chips in the pedal bone edge
 
have u lost it completly , i am not a barefoot trimmer, and i would never put a horse like that barefoot, can you explain why you are saying things like that, everyone on this forum can see that i did not say what you are saying. i think you really dont know as much as you think, and it shows
 
Hoofsculpture, please can you explain this for me.
You say the laminae in this horse is stretched, so therefore is dead, and because of this a farrier could place a nail into the hoof INTO the stretched laminae, and the horse would not feel it?
So why then was my mare (whose feet were a darn sight worse than those when we got her!) so lame she couldnt put her foot down as a result of a badly placed nail?
 
HS,no-one is having a go at you for a laugh.
If you choose to put up a post which in essence says we as a forum know nothing and you know it all,be prepared to back it up
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"God help the horse" "it will never get the right treatment" ect are not helpfull or constructive.
The OP clearly loves her horse and has come her asking for MORE information on his feet so she can help him better and make more informed choices about his care,unless you are going to post what you would do and give reasons I cant see hwy you would bother to post at all
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joeanne, you have a good point. even a sound horse wirth no problems can be nailed very easly. the nail is driven up into the white line and out through the hoof wall . the nail can enter the laminae very easly before it exits the wall . if this happens, it will be noticed, and the farrier will remove the offending nail.. this can happen more easly, if the laminae is low down as in a thin soled horse . about you,r horse, no matter how bad she looked, she must have had enough attached hoof wall at the quarters to feel pain. nailing horses happens all the time, so you can see how little room there is between the laminae an the bone tip. it is a dodgy busisness
 
i can be bothered because i have given her good advice
and where did i mention you as a forum i did not. i said god help the horse when i heard and seen what some so called experts were saying, as for you ,if you are so insulted by what was said on this forum, what are you getting involved for, lets hear what you would do with the horse.
 
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i was,nt having an argument,

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Oh good, then we agree
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i was stating facts after many years i dont have to guess. it,s my job

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Well, Ok. I'm still not convinced, but I WILL take the trouble to inform myself.
 
believe you me, after all this pathetic nonsence, i have managed to give op sound advice, if you took time to listen to some advice on this forum, you,r horse would be in a sorry state
 
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