How heavy is too heavy?

[bugbee717]

How do we view people who are this weight. What size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. I am not talking about big fit rugby men. I am talking about fat men or women.

 

[Wagtail]

How do we view people who are this weight. What size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. I am not talking about big fit rugby men. I am talking about fat men or women.

I am not sure of how this is relevant. 20 stone of person or 20 stone of luggage, is still too heavy. There are certain things that you can or can't do according to your size. I am too tall to ever be a ballet dancer or a gymnast. I am too heavy to ride little ponies, though I'd love to Why can I accept that but some obese people cannot accept that they are too heavy for their horses? It's about horse welfare, not about how we view heavy people.

I say SOME as most overweight horsey people that I know personally know when to give up riding. One friend gave up for five years as she gained loads of 'baby weight'. I thought she was never going to lose it, but then all of a sudden I get a surprise visit from her and she has lost all of it and is back riding her TBs. She had lost 4 stone and was back down to her pre baby 9 stone.

 

[tallyho!]

How do we view people who are this weight. What size clothes are they in, what are they able to do. I am not talking about big fit rugby men. I am talking about fat men or women.

Yeah you're a bit vague. Can you erm, flesh out your question a bit more

 

[rachel_s]

For what its worth, Stephen Hadley wrote in one of his books that he weighed about 12.5 stone which meant he could ride almost any horse (to jump/ work). I don't believe he bothered to check bone just their jumping temperament.

 

[skychick]

No use asking me anyway, I'm a 10st weakling on a 17hh ID, I look like a pimple on a pigs bum

that made me chuckle!!

im 5ft 4, 11.5 stone, size 12, ridiculously long legs for my height, wear 36inch leg jeans!! my horse is a 16.1 TBxWB medium weight, 16 or 17 years old. seems to carry me fine...although i dont hunt or compete so am not galloping her into the ground for hours on end. just school at home and jump and hack for an hour at a time, sometimes up to 3 hours (hacking)
previous horse 14.2 irish sports pony, medium weight, definately had no issues carrying me! or launching, rearing, bucking bronking with me on him!

previous horse 14 hand arab definately no probs carrying me....but i was 8 stone then! oh how i long to be that weight again!

 

[PapaFrita]

This thread has annoyed me quite a lot and the sheer naivety of some people on here is shocking.

I think you need to look up the word 'naive'. Horses have

I'm around the 10 and a half stone mark and have a 16.2 DW and a 15.2 ISH and certainly would not put anymore than 12stone on their back, why put them through anymore stress and unnecessary strain? Barbaric.

You definitely need to look up the word 'barbaric'. Most men of average height and build weigh 12 stone or more and plenty of tall, not fat women.

 

[madeleine1]

i think people should stop being judgemental and condsider the answers to these questions.

is my mare happier out in a field being happy hacked and schooled and competed at a low level by me then in a riding school where she was in a stable most of the year with limited turnout in summer only and riden by a differant person everyday which stressed her out?

would she rather a heavier rider who is balanced and giving her confidance or a skinnier rider without a clue?

would she rather i rode her keeping her happy and in work while i slowly lost weight or would she rather i sold her on to another home and she was all insecure and went to an uncertain future because i weigh a lot?

ps my weight has been discussed with a back lady a farrier, a few yard owners, and two vets and they all say its not having an effect on her however i weigh more then most people on here would say should be put on a horse,

i responce to the original question (as these threads invariably get highjacked) i think how much is to much is hard to answer as it depends on the horse. i know horses who could easy carry 25 stone ie shires and large cobs and 17hh warm bloods. if the person is in control of their own body and capable of not pulling on the horses back to get on or cant move in sync with the horse. fact is tho that most people over 20 stone cant ride but then you cant rule anything out as people can weight differant weights for differant reasons. and we cant judge by cloth size or what people look like as someone guessed my weight at 11 stone the other day and they are way out btw

 

[horsemadsarah]

Aagghhh! This thread has made me mad. I'm usually a lurker but I just have to put in my two pence worth!

I'm 5.7, weigh 11.3 st and would feel guilty of riding anything smaller than 16hh. I wouldn't consider myself a 'fattie', but I am only just within the 'normal' range on the BMI index and still have plenty of fat on me which doesnt need to be there! I used to weigh 12 1/2 stone and my knees used to click when walking up stairs. Since only loosing just over a stone, they have stopped clicking. 1 stone isn't much, but they all add up to make a difference!

Yes horses are strong animals, but only up to a point. I think some people severely over estimate how much their horse can comfortably carry, and how heavy people should weigh. 20st is far too much to ask any horse to carry and I think you have to be pretty selfish if you think it is acceptable. I work with shire horses and would never dream of putting this weight on their backs, regardless of how much bone they have.

Rugby players are heavy and not fat, but they dont get to 17st of muscle naturally. Weight is weight. People are hunter gatherers and we're built to survive on very little. Most men would be a healthy weight at 14st and under (depending on height) and for a big horse, this is the most I personally wan't to see sat on it. I don't agree with the 12st weight limit statement, but i'm not far off it. People need to realise that horse riding is a sport/hobby in which the welfare of another creature is involved. If you're overweight, maybe you should take up another sport such as running

 

[tallyho!]

Does anyone else think BONE as a factor for weight carrying totally ludicrous??

 

[tallyho!]

Aagghhh! This thread has made me mad. I'm usually a lurker but I just have to put in my two pence worth!

I'm 5.7, weigh 11.3 st and would feel guilty of riding anything smaller than 16hh. I wouldn't consider myself a 'fattie', but I am only just within the 'normal' range on the BMI index and still have plenty of fat on me which doesnt need to be there! I used to weigh 12 1/2 stone and my knees used to click when walking up stairs. Since only loosing just over a stone, they have stopped clicking. 1 stone isn't much, but they all add up to make a difference!

Yes horses are strong animals, but only up to a point. I think some people severely over estimate how much their horse can comfortably carry, and how heavy people should weigh. 20st is far too much to ask any horse to carry and I think you have to be pretty selfish if you think it is acceptable. I work with shire horses and would never dream of putting this weight on their backs, regardless of how much bone they have.

Rugby players are heavy and not fat, but they dont get to 17st of muscle naturally. Weight is weight. People are hunter gatherers and we're built to survive on very little. Most men would be a healthy weight at 14st and under (depending on height) and for a big horse, this is the most I personally wan't to see sat on it. I don't agree with the 12st weight limit statement, but i'm not far off it. People need to realise that horse riding is a sport/hobby in which the welfare of another creature is involved. If you're overweight, maybe you should take up another sport such as running

Welcome t'madhouse!

i do agree with you Sarah.

 

[*hic*]

Nope - more bone would tend to give greater bearing surfaces at the joints (think how much more painful it is being trodden on by someone wearing stilettos than, say, cuban heels) and larger muscle attachment points.

 

[sidesaddlegirl]

I'm shocked that many people seem to think that horses shouldn't handle anything more than 12 stone and that is "babaric"! Best give up my 15 year old 15.3 TB then since I'm 13 1/2 stone, quit my Aquatone classes and put my bike in the bin since us "barbaic fatties" have no business enjoying life, exercise and our horses.

I have the back lady out once a year as they always say when they come out that her back doesn't really much doing to it, my saddler is my "best friend" as he's always coming out and tweaking my side saddles, and we school dressage nearly every day and hack out miles (to shows even!) without any ill effects.

I probably wouldn't choose a TB of Hattie's size if I were 20 stone but I think as long as the horse has enough bone, does not have any soundness issues, has well fitted tack checked over regularly by a saddler and the rider carries themselves well (I don't know how many little slips of things I saw at the last show we went to, getting left behind at every single fence, I feel sorry for THOSE horses!), then it shouldn't be a problem.

There are quite a few 20 stone ladies around where I keep mine and they ride their cob types happily and the horses do not have any lameness issues. They don't do BSJA but happily hack out and do local dressage. As long as the horses are well cared for, sound and happy, then live and let live I say!

I don't think people realize how little 12 stone is..

This is me at my skinniest ever at 12 stone on the nose in 2008 with the 17 year old 14.1 Arab I had at the time. I'm 5'9" so even at 12 stone, I would have been over the weight limit at alot of schools which is bizarre considering how skinny I looked!

This is me taken a few weeks ago at 13 1/2 stone and don't look that much bigger than my previous photo (although a little older, LOL! ) Still no tub 'o lard though. We always get positive comments from judges. It just goes to show how weight looks vs. "precieved" weight.

 

[Jess Hoss]

I hold my hands up. I'm a good dooer. As a full time gardener, I cut hedges, mow lawns, dig & do gardenery things. What I'm saying is "I have a very physical job". I should be sylph like - but I'm not. Ontop of that, I walk the dogs & wander around 38 acres of hill & glen to fetch my 14.3 HW cob. When I was getting my horse vetted, I stated my weight concern & intended use for the horse. The vet said that it was not going to be a problem at all. She was more than capable. A professional oppinion. So now for the ooohs & aaahhhs when I tell you that I was 15 1/2 stone. I've lost a wee bit since then. I have been trying. Nobody LIKES being fat. I get the spines & shihatsu woman out every 2 or 3 months. Her back is fine. I ride in a freeform treeless ( extremely lightweight ) saddle with orthopedic pad as these saddles have the best weight distribution. I am extremely aware of every move I make - I have an interest in centred riding.. .. .

 

[Batgirl]

If you think a horse won't notice twenty stone then I think that it is you who are being ignorant. Just because they tolerate it doesn't mean it is not unkind to them. I think there are too many people making sweeping statements about how horse 'feel'. Just as other athletes have to keep fit and keep in shape, so should horse riders.

Everyone is entitled to their own view however I feel that this is another generalisation that has little to do with weight, there are top eventers that weigh more than 12st. Also from a personal point of view I am fit enough to play badminton (twice a week), netball (twice a week) and basketball (once a week) (I also used to play rugby for North England, Iam a fit athelete) as well as riding 5 times a week and I weigh 16st, 17hh ISH has no problem carrying me and neither did my 14'3 Section D and I have had backs checked and I am incredibley fit.

I do however think that there are some riders who are not fit enough to balance well enough and who are too heavy for their particular horses confirmation, the 12st thing is just so arbitrary.

People also say to carry a 5th of your weigh around, I know for a fact that if you go on all fours and do so you wouldn't find it that hard.

(BTW Carl Hester is over 12st)

 

[Chloe..x]

I think you need to look up the word 'naive'. Horses have


You definitely need to look up the word 'barbaric'. Most men of average height and build weigh 12 stone or more and plenty of tall, not fat women.

Whats so hard about losing a few stone cos your horse will benefit in the long run. I don't see why its socially acceptable to put horses under such strain.

 

[tallyho!]

Nope - more bone would tend to give greater bearing surfaces at the joints (think how much more painful it is being trodden on by someone wearing stilettos than, say, cuban heels) and larger muscle attachment points.

Hmmm... I thought of that but then joint & suspension was more my line of thinking and obviously the vertebrae. Which anatomically speaking wasn't designed for up top weight but more hang down weight. Which is then slung between two shoulders which aren't supported other than by soft tissue.

I was thinking more along the lines of weight placement. i.e. xx weight put on similar horses but one with longer back and one with shorter back. Which then comes down to conformation.

So, if a horse with skinny legs and short back were to carry the same weight as a horse with thick legs and a long back, which would retire from anatomical malfunction first?

I see the legs as just stilts which keep the body off the ground and move the body around. How stable the body is depends on where those legs are (and a couple of other factors..)... i.e. conformation which determines how structurally sound the horse is and how much it could potentially carry comfortably.

So, I still think bone is not a determinable factor of weight carrrying ability.

 

[PapaFrita]

Whats so hard about losing a few stone cos your horse will benefit in the long run. I don't see why its socially acceptable to put horses under such strain.

Seriously? 12 stone is a strain? Is it BARBARIC??? Don't be absurd. Most horses,even 'weedy' TBs, assuming horse is healthy, of reasonable conformation and rider not a complete sack of spuds, can carry at least 100kg and that's over 15 stone. How much do you think the Whittakers weigh? Or Geoff Billington??? Or Olly Townend?

 

[Wagtail]

Seriously? 12 stone is a strain? Is it BARBARIC??? Don't be absurd. Most horses,even 'weedy' TBs, assuming horse is healthy, of reasonable conformation and rider not a complete sack of spuds, can carry at least 100kg and that's over 15 stone. How much do you think the Whittakers weigh? Or Geoff Billington??? Or Olly Townend?

I don't think the vast majority of people are saying that 12 stone is a problem.

 

[Wagtail]

Interestingly, arabs and TBs have greater bone density and can carry more weight per inch of bone than heavy horses. But then they rarely have more than 9 inches of bone and I wouldn't put more that 14 stone (plus tack) on a horse with 9 inches of bone.

 

[bugbee717]

Whats so hard about losing a few stone cos your horse will benefit in the long run. I don't see why its socially acceptable to put horses under such strain.

sorry if this sounds harse. I have ten horses/ponies, 3 children. I also work, if you think I am unfit or lazy feel free do a week with me you will not last a day. I have a very busy life. when I have been the weight watcher/ slimming world it is all to much food. NOt forgetting the hypnothephy/ accupunchere (sp). Some people can not lose weight like other people. I have no gall bladder and CAN NOT eat fat, it works in the same way diet tablets do, IE you eat fat you poo it out, quick and fast and it is not nice trust me.


Just because I am fat it does not mean that I am not trying to lose weight, so whilst you make statements like this just stop for one moment and think.


I ride my hafflinger he is 14.3hh for 5 foot 11 I have very short legs, this horse can lift me off the ground with his head, he has gone from 700kg plus to 487kg, I know what I weigh. I would do seeing as a weigh myself each day. I currently weigh 20 stone 2 pounds up 4 from yesterday.


so whilst you moan and bit33h about weight, think about us fat people, do you think for one second that I will let my children get like this hmmm no, a life which is not the same as other people, no I dont think so.

get a grip stop bashing that fat person cause they are an east target.
NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.

 

[missyme10]

Interesting thread.
I've a 14.3hh gypsey cob, and will have a welsh cob same size to ride when she's grown up.
I'm 11 stone and i think thats fine.
My sister who's bigger all round also rides the gypsey cob but thats as big as i'll allow on him.
Dont get me wrong, i know he could carry more but why should he have to?
Its all about comfortably carrying a weight in my eyes.
There has to be a limit, of course it varies from horse to horse, but i personally wouldn't allow more than 14 stone on my ponies backs, regardless of size or breed or amount of bone x

 

[Serenity087]

In short, a thread of gestimates and skinny people being foul.

So what is it... 12 stone, or 20% of body mass... which in Dorey's case, is quite a bit over 12 stone...

Now, given my mare is perfectly capable of throwing me off when she's in pain and HAS PREVIOUSLY DONE SO, I'm pretty sure being over 12 stone didn't kill her.

in fact, I think I was under 12stone when she tried killing me last time. Just trivia though.

It shouldn't matter an iota what the rider ways as long as the saddle fits correctly. The saddle should disperse the weight from off the horses spine onto the back and shoulder muscles. It should also be sized according to the rider to disperse the weight accordingly.

If people are buggering up their horses through being 12 stone, then I sincerly hope they shoot their saddlers. Because I think you'll find it's dodgey tack to blame.

Or maybe atrocious riding.

Either way, where I have kept horses recently, a 12stone ban would stop most the riders from riding. Ironically the horses always stabled up lame and on bute are the ones owned by the skinny minnies.

IMO weight is irrelevant. Too many other factors.

 

[*hic*]

Hmmm... I thought of that but then joint & suspension was more my line of thinking and obviously the vertebrae. Which anatomically speaking wasn't designed for up top weight but more hang down weight. Which is then slung between two shoulders which aren't supported other than by soft tissue.

I was thinking more along the lines of weight placement. i.e. xx weight put on similar horses but one with longer back and one with shorter back. Which then comes down to conformation.

So, if a horse with skinny legs and short back were to carry the same weight as a horse with thick legs and a long back, which would retire from anatomical malfunction first?

I see the legs as just stilts which keep the body off the ground and move the body around. How stable the body is depends on where those legs are (and a couple of other factors..)... i.e. conformation which determines how structurally sound the horse is and how much it could potentially carry comfortably.

So, I still think bone is not a determinable factor of weight carrrying ability.

You're back to my point about bearing surfaces and muscle attachment points! Each of the bones in a long backed, heavily boned horse will proportionally have more bearing surface and bigger, stronger muscle attachment points than those in a light boned horse. In either case a horse which is correctly fittened and muscled up will last much longer.

 

[Chloe..x]

Seriously? 12 stone is a strain? Is it BARBARIC??? Don't be absurd. Most horses,even 'weedy' TBs, assuming horse is healthy, of reasonable conformation and rider not a complete sack of spuds, can carry at least 100kg and that's over 15 stone. How much do you think the Whittakers weigh? Or Geoff Billington??? Or Olly Townend?

12stone plus tack etc makes at least 14stone plus. The Whitakers are absolutely tiny so I dont think they would weight that much!
Say someone 14 stones+ rode my horse, thats around 16 stone plus in total and I personally wouldn't want my horses carrying that weight. I don't think many horses are infact fit enough to carry such weight unlike the top showjumpers/eventers which are purposely muscled up to the max and at the the height of fitness. I very much doubt these horses carrying 20 stone could go around a three day event or jump a grand prix now.

 

[lexiedhb]

12stone plus tack etc makes at least 14stone plus. The Whitakers are absolutely tiny so I dont think they would weight that much!
Say someone 14 stones+ rode my horse, thats around 16 stone plus in total and I personally wouldn't want my horses carrying that weight. I don't think many horses are infact fit enough to carry such weight unlike the top showjumpers/eventers which are purposely muscled up to the max and at the the height of fitness. I very much doubt these horses carrying 20 stone could go around a three day event or jump a grand prix now.

Umm unless you flock your saddle with cement there is NO WAY a saddle bridle and saddle cloth weighs 2 stone.......

 

[Chloe..x]

Umm unless you flock your saddle with cement there is NO WAY a saddle bridle and saddle cloth weighs 2 stone.......

then hat, boots, body protector etc, I think it was quoted earlier in the topic.

 

[Wagtail]

sorry if this sounds harse. I have ten horses/ponies, 3 children. I also work, if you think I am unfit or lazy feel free do a week with me you will not last a day. I have a very busy life. when I have been the weight watcher/ slimming world it is all to much food. NOt forgetting the hypnothephy/ accupunchere (sp). Some people can not lose weight like other people. I have no gall bladder and CAN NOT eat fat, it works in the same way diet tablets do, IE you eat fat you poo it out, quick and fast and it is not nice trust me.


Just because I am fat it does not mean that I am not trying to lose weight, so whilst you make statements like this just stop for one moment and think.


I ride my hafflinger he is 14.3hh for 5 foot 11 I have very short legs, this horse can lift me off the ground with his head, he has gone from 700kg plus to 487kg, I know what I weigh. I would do seeing as a weigh myself each day. I currently weigh 20 stone 2 pounds up 4 from yesterday.


so whilst you moan and bit33h about weight, think about us fat people, do you think for one second that I will let my children get like this hmmm no, a life which is not the same as other people, no I dont think so.

get a grip stop bashing that fat person cause they are an east target.
NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.

It is nothing to do with 'bashing' people for being fat. It is about horse welfare. At 20 stone plus tack you are far too heavy for your 14.3 500kg ish pony.

 

[bugbee717]

Wagtail you do not know me or my horse, or what is able to carry or it's fitness level, nor do you know my fitness level or how I ride. Unless you know this I do not feel you are in a position to say what is right or wrong for me or my horse.

 

[lexiedhb]

then hat, boots, body protector etc, I think it was quoted earlier in the topic.

1 stone YES- 2 not a chance.

 

[ozpoz]

No need to be defensive - no one is 'bashing' fat people.

People are supporting horse welfare by questioning how much they should be asked to carry, and some people have strong feelings horse welfare.
I thought Tallyho's observations were a very important point and it would be good to have some proper scientific research on this. I know the Saddle Research Trust did a research day at Braconhurst recently, but don't know if weight came into it.