How rare is this!!

Goodness, what a lot of assumptions you are making Ajn ... none of my registered OR unregistered mares are unsound or psycho or need caslicks ...
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. Over the years, I have bred pedigree aswell as non-pedigree mares and the stipulation for me is that they ARE sound and of good conformation and that they are NOT psychos.
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And my boy (the father of my homebred foals), is registered and was a licensed stallion before I had him gelded, and he is a nicely put together guy, with not only beautiful paces but also a beautifully kind and quiet temperament ... all that, combined with top notch bloodlines made him a fairly good bet as Daddy-material
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.

One of my homebred foals from last year, turned out exactly as I had expected. She oozes quality, and so she should! Her mother has exceptional bloodlines which totally compliment the superb bloodlines of her father, thus she will undoubtedly command a price which reflects this quality when I decide to place her on the open market. When one breeds, there is always a risk as to what you will end up with, however you greatly limit the risk of disappointment when you can trace the lineage of the proposed foal and start with conformationally sound parents.
 
to the OP cute foal keep us posted with pics

as to the beeding argument... mollie was a bit of an "accident" neither parents were registered yet she is enjoying fantastic results at bsja and doesnt do bad at xc either - her comfo isnt aful either!!!
 
What I was trying to say was... just because it comes from unregistered parents doesn't mean it is going to be useless. I wasn't trying to have a go at 'registered' breeders.

Tia - that is exactly what I meant that nice, quality horses with good temperaments have a good chance of producing the same in their offspring whether they are registered or not. Those are the animals that ideally should be bred from.

Papa Frita - I'm sorry if you felt my comment about caslicks was sniping, but you as a breeder must be aware that vulvoplasty is necessary due to poor conformation in the perineum area. I wasn't trying to be provocative just pointing out that registered animals can have problems too, but I shouldn't have said 'crappy' I'm sorry. As for cross breeding at some point you do need to introduce new blood otherwise the gene pool becomes too small and you get the homozygous conditions I was referring to, such as LWFS, HYPP, SCID etc. a WB IS a cross breed ie a TB X a draught horse, and an example of selecting for performance rather than 'blood' so I don't really understand why that peed you off so much but I apologise no offence was meant.

Obviously there are beautiful registered animals producing gorgeous valuable foals. The people I object to are the ones who have a mare - registered or unregistered, that can't work either because it is chronically unsound or mentally unstable so they breed from it, to me that makes no sense what so ever. I wasn't suggesting that being either registered or unregistered pushes animals into that category. I perhaps didn't express myself well, I was trying to move away from bald statements that registered = good, unregistered = bad, a nice horse is a nice horse and handsome is as handsome does. Everybody knows there are no guarantees and phenotype isn't genotype, by knowing a horses parentage you are hedging your bets but nothing is certain until the foal arrives. I just felt OP was getting unnecessary stick for posting a few pics and asking what colour the foal might end up. So once again sorry if I upset/offended you I was just expressing an opinion.
 
looks to me like he'll grey out, he seems to have specs round his eyes which is normally a good indicator.

If dad is grey and dad only had one grey parent, and mum is non grey then any foals they produce together will have a 50% chance of being grey.

Grey doesn't hide, it's dominant, and it's not so much a colour as something that happens to a colour.
 
Cute foal, but
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that people are breeding "just to see what happens". There is enough crap out there without people intentionally breeding something for the sake of it. I'm not saying all unregistered horses are crap at all, my horse is unknown but I brought him for what he was, he could have easily been a load of rubbish and joined the hundreds of "useless" animals. To purposefully breed something with no intention or idea what i may turn into is not acceptable IMO. Sorry!
 
I think it most likely that this little foal will go grey.

I would be concerned enough about those legs and feet to get an expert opinion on them from somebody who can see them better than on a photograph, although as has been said they may strengthen and improve.
 
Right I haven't read most of these posts, I have just scanned through, I will read it properly on a min.
I think the majority think he will go grey!

Bertie's mum was a NF and she was put to the SAME LICENSED SEC D X.
And he is a cracking colt.
The vet and farrier have said the same. And no they weren't just being nice as they are both straight talking!

I am sick to effing death of JM07 so I have put her IU, so I dont have to read her crap. My friend would have been ever so upset to read what she put.

Bear is a waste of space aswell then!? His mum was a piebald gypsy cob and his dad's a tbxhannorvarian.
Niether of the parents are registered or anything special.
But to me Bear is worth his weight in gold. I wouldn't sell him for all the money in the world!
Someone asked me to name my price last Thursday cos he's such a handsome sweet kind horse!



I'll PM you pictures in a couple of weeks Tia as I dont like all the nasty comments on the open forum, so I would rather not share for all to see.

xx
 
I would say grey too Sophie, he is lovely.

As Sachak says she has a cross breed and is doing very well with it. Honestly come on guys there are plenty of beautiful cross breeds out there some that are doing very well indeed.

I am sure this foal will sell as everyone wants a horse for a different reason. I personally couldn't resist.
 
Thanks Angeldelight, the mum is not registered or anything, but my friends daughter took her to david brooms last April and I think they came 5th in the 2ft 3''.
She will jump 2ft 9'' with ease!
She's a kind natured little mare and so is the dad.
My yearling Bertie (same sire) has had a little saddle sat on his back and he didn't bat an eyelid! He is so chilled out and sweet. I dont care that he's not a pure breed, I prefer x breeds.

Heres Bear's Dad doing his 1st XC!
He's nowt special but he's a real babe and this is where Bear gets his honesty from!
http://www.snapshot-photography.co.uk/Cam_1_g2189-WHPC_Cross_Country_Class_2_p141001.html
 
and i'm sick to effin death of people on here who post pictures and only want to hear "nice" things...

i'm not the only one to point out that this foal is the product of indescriminate breeding/has suspect confo, yet, because i dont sugar coat my bloody posts, get a load of flak!!

so they all talk crap aswell then...you'll be talking to yourself soon...

grow up sophie221
 
There are ways of saying things- you dont have to sugar coat your bloody posts but because of the way you word things they come across as bloody posts and as you say speak up nd dont whinge to admin.
There are many great horses out there that are cross bred and still doing a job...someone with not so great conformation but still doing a job. I dont agree with breeding for the sake of seeing what comes out- but is the choice, sometimes unfortunatley of others to do so. Your first comment was applaudable - the ones there after were a little below the belt. You dont seem to have the same sort of wit to be able to carry off a fugly horse post im afraid. It just comes across as a little bit more personal
 
Hi flintus, I dont know what she has posted as Im ignoring her.
I didnt mean that she would just see what pops out, but to see if she would take as she rarely came in to season.
We knew what type of foal she would have as between us we already have 1 each, Bertie and Maisie. Maisie went to her 1st show 2 weeks ago, it was also her 1st time out in a trailer and she acted like a little pro. We know he throws good stock and we are happy!
Unfortunately I have sold Bertie, he will be going in 4 weeks time. I was hoping to win the lotto on Sat night then I could hvae kept him!

xx
 
Something to think about, for one moment.

Where the hell do you think meat farms get their ware? Are they pure bred foals out of graded stallions? Or foals with knackered legs out of ungraded cross breeds bred for no apparent reason.

JM has never been one to use sweeteners. Don't use that to excuse the fact she is right.

If that foal is ever sold, it'll end up with someone like Jamie Gray. Can you honestly live with that on your conscience?

Oh, and it's going to be grey.
 
i wasn't trying to be witty...

as it was the OP herself who said i was "nit-picking" i'm assuming she will therefore be saying the same to you as you have agreed to that point?
 
Well I have just sold Bertie to a lovely home! He hasn't gone to Jamie Grey and Bear will never end up with someone like that! So my conscience is clear!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Something to think about, for one moment.

Where the hell do you think meat farms get their ware? Are they pure bred foals out of graded stallions? Or foals with knackered legs out of ungraded cross breeds bred for no apparent reason.

JM has never been one to use sweeteners. Don't use that to excuse the fact she is right.

If that foal is ever sold, it'll end up with someone like Jamie Gray. Can you honestly live with that on your conscience?

Oh, and it's going to be grey.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thats isnt always the case as we know, I am sure there are many many people on this forum with un reg cross breds... I have one. Infact I can think of many on my yard (a large comp yard) that are cross bred out of un graded stallions. I agree with JM07. Indiscrimitive breeding is where the mess stems from...but there are ways to put things. I know my horse hasnt the best Con but to call someone elses horse Fugly on an open forum is a little below the belt I felt
 
I agree with most posters (on both sides here really). Yes you reduce the risk of getting some thing 'crap' by using registered and graded mares/stallions but also there are some FANTASTIC horses out there from happy hackers to top eventers who have 'breeding unknown' on their passport. I believe Toy Town is one of those.

However, I'm not expert on foaly confirmation but that does not look like a well put together foal. I would be delighted to be proven wrong and his legs straighten up and he grows into his head but I for one wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I don't think most people are trying to be harsh, its just this is a public forum and people are going to give you their honest opinions.

Also agree he's going to turn grey.
 
Now Sophie, I think that is rather cute, and suspect it will grow in to a nice sort.

I echo others concerns regarding the pasterns - but presumably your friend is knowledgeable to know that this little chaps exercise is going to have to be restricted for a week or so until he straightens up.

Look forward to seeing some updates
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Sorry you have had some ratty posts - I cant comment on the foal as I get it blocked via work but you dont need to be heard that he is fugly

My mare is a welsh D x Gypsy and ok the stallion and mare are registerd but sod off its all about pure breeding - she has near perfect confo - and wipes the floor with every purebred horse we come up against in driving classes - so there!! And she has the best of both her breeds - high stepping firey action but with and calm and gentle nature - she is sturdy and stong but with beautiful lines to look elegant in a trap - so why not cross breed ?

I hope foal is happy and healthy and mum is doing well - I do agree with 'hope for the best breeding' but there is a way of saying it isnt there?

sorry you have had a vicious response from some - and if only they had been more constructive - it really would be worthwhile listening to!!

xxx
 
oh come on....where have "some" been vicious, eh??

ETS...**VICIOUS**

oxford english dictionary....
"a cruel or violent attack, ferocious or forceful attack"

bit melodramatic don't you think?

and by saying that the pasterns/fetlocks needed looking at wasnt constructive???
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This is quite the hot topic
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I am against breeding from any unregistered horses, I have never owned and never will own a horse with unknown parentage. I agree that over breeding can cause issue's in itself but cross breeding two registered compatable and successful horses should produce a decent animal.

On a final note the horses that end up travelling hundred of miles in meat wagons to end up in sausages or served up as steaks are not pink papered ponies they're the outcome of ill breeding that no one wants
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P.S the foal has shocking confirmation just be glad it's a mare so unlikely to reproduce.
 
Im not bothered about peoples opinions, its just the fact that JM07 thinks she has a right to call it fugly!

I only wanted to know what colour he will be, and please bear in mind he was only a couple of hours old in the photos.

Bertie is bred the same way, apart from his mum is a 3 inches taller than this mare.
 
QR, hes a cutie, quite a big head, but with any luck he will grow into it. i think Grey also.
I have to agree with some comments - you cannot expect all comments to be sweet and light, people are entitled to their opinions..nothing on here has been that nasty - just honest. I dont understand when people get the ar*e when they get these comments.. either take it on board or ignore it..
 
Hard to tell how good or otherwise the foal is as its only a few hours old. It doesn't look great right now but may grow into itself? Not sure why it is being branded "rare" though?

I think it is very bad to breed indiscriminately, but I don't have any issues with unregistered crossbreds - if both parents are sound and of good conformation and temperament, that is good enough for me. So long as the foal is bred for a purpose or to do a specific job I don't think there is a problem. It is people who breed any old horse for the sake of it that make my blood boil.

As I don't know the quality of either parent I don't feel I could judge on whether this is a sensible breeding or not.
 
in reply to Sophie as she's ignoring me....

yes, if you post on an open forum then i have a "right" as you put it, to say it's "fugly"..

as i said, not all foals are cute..

and believe me, i've owned several.

and yes, i've called them fugly too!!!
 
I have a purebred connemara from registered parents, but for some reason my boy isn't registered, something to do with the breeders illness who then unfortunately died. I will be registering him shortly. His grandad was a champion stallion.

I don't have a problem with cross breeds as I also have a ID x TB who has unknown parents. If people want to cross breed and do so from well tempered, healthy horses with good conformation I do not see a problem.

Is it correct to say though that even when breeding from the above well tempered healthy horses with good confirmation there could still be exceptions with the foal? I don't breed and don't as you may have gathered know alot about it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you know, without wanting to be rude I agree with KM07, although it could probably be put more diplomatically.

A section D x NF was probably not the best idea in the world, and at the moment from those pics the foal isn't the greatest looking thing I've ever seen. Sounds like a 'whim' of breeding rather than a plan which is never a good idea. Why not use a NF stallion?

[/ QUOTE ]

Accidents happen and one of the best ponies I know (and have the good fortune to own) is a Sec D X NF, she was an accident not a planned mating. She is 14.2 has represented PC at Area in all diciplines and has a fantastic record (for her size) at BE Novice, had jumped 5 clears at Nov this year so far. She is also fully qualified to do FEI ponies, hunts all day and could safely take granny for a hack. She is also one of the nicest and easiest ponies to handle.

I intend to breed from her in view of her exceptional temperament and ability as I feel this should be passed on.

I do agree with some of the posts that the foal is perhaps not the prettiest I have seen but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and hopefully it will grow into itself.
 
Your foal is lovely, I'm sure you are delighted with him.
It's also worth bearing in mind how much foals change and develop in the first few years of their lives, much like human babies, so as has been said I wouldn't worry about his "fetlock".
 
Apollo2- My friend owns a very well bred Sec D, Nebo black magic lines, her OH brought him as a 4 yr old. He has bad sweet itch and awful feet.
My heinz 57 cob and bertie are healthy animals with fab conformation and feet. Just goes to show doesn't it!

Thistle- I wish I was keeping Bertie, he has a fab temperment, even when he was a colt with 2 in season mares in the next field!
I would have broken him in and hunted him, and he would have been a nice happy hacker for my OH.

Thanks Fayefudge, he isn't mine, he's a friends!
 
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