How rare is this!!

I agree x-breeding is a bad idea (nothing is selling, that should be the first clue) but I think it could have been phrased a little nicer, otherwise people will just ignore the posts, rather then taking them in and learning...
 
Smoochy, do you think your appaloosa x and welsh x shouldn't of been bred? reg or not?
Thats what some people are basically saying about x breeds.
I personally love x breeds. they sometimes have nicer natures than pure breeds!
Love the welsh x BTW!
 
A question regarding the OP: when breeding dogs, with crossbreeding it is normal (I believe) to have the dog smaller than the bitch, to enable an easier birth. Why is it with hores the stallion is often larger than the mare - by quite a bit, in some cases? Maybe I should post this query in the Breeding forum...
 
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May I remind JMO7 that Sophie only posted to ask what colour her foal would end up.
She did NOT ask for an opinion on the foals conformation etc.
If JMO7 was genuinely concerned about the foals "fetlocks" she could have just private messaged Sophie instead of posting nasty comments.
Deeming anyone's horse "fugly" is below the belt and totally out of order!
IMO JMO7 is the one who needs to "grow up" and learn some manners and tact, not Sophie.

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i dont do PM's....

i find them a sneaky underhanded way of having a debate..

if things are out in the open then everyone gets a chance to voice their opinion....


as for manners...i have plenty thank you...tact? no not a lot.

as i have also posted, i dont see any problem calling a foal/pony/horse "fugly"..i've owned several in the past.

and why should i have PM'd sophie instead of saying things on open??

i would then have been accused of bullying her!!!

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the only reply that could remotely be deemed as "rude" or whatever would be the comment it seems is i called it "fugly"..
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storm in a tea-cup.
 
Sophie, I think you've missed the point!!

You said that the stallion used was a welsh D x. Welsh D crossed with what? How is he licenced if he's a cross breed?

People should not keep animals entire if they are not good enough to be licenced or graded. THAT is the point.

If you have a good stallion which has been certified by it's breed society then hell, put it to ANY mare with a good conformation and temperament. The stallion usually makes such a stamp on it's offspring.

My friend has two stallions (she is a licenced stud) and breeds NF's. However, she uses good quality mares of other breeding. This year's foal's include a (all x nf) sec A x, a dartmoor x, and a section B x. BUT these were bred intentionally knowing the mare's temperament and ability would match that of the stallion and produce smaller NF types which would make good pony club ponies. On the other hand, a good selection of TB mares which when crossed with the bigger NF would make good sports ponies. Each and every one of this year's foals have been good looking, and amazingly, against the grain of this thread and what I have said previously, it's the cross breeds that are the prettiest
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. Her first NF stallion was chosen as a yearling for his parentage and long line of breeding. She retired an older stallion who proved to be a superstar and again, was very nicely bred, so when he had to be PTS she purchased his son, took him to the NF, had him licenced (and someone else had bought a colt from holland to be licenced and been turned down, so you can imagine how stringent they are now).


I don't know of any pony breeder who would use a crossbred stallion, and even then I imagine it's something that would only be done in experienced hands. Unlicenced stallions being used to sire foals makes a mockery of the hard work and dedication of the breed societies in this country.

If it's not good enough to be licenced have it gelded.
 
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Last year my friend decided put her little 12.2hh NFx to Bertie's Dad (sec D x) and see what happens.


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This sounds a very indiscriminate way to breed to me and should be discouraged. There are so many horses in unacceptable circumstances and the chances are 99% of them were the result of breeding "to see what happens".
 
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JM07 has only ever been nice and helpful to me once and it was that one post about my colt being gelded!!
Yes I do have permission to post pictures, she asked me to post on here to ask opinions on his colour.

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the other thread of your's i've replied to was the debacle with the colt on the road with a lunge line tied round it..

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3122087/an/0/page/14#3122087

as i recall, i wasn't the only one who wasn't "nice" as you put it.

the "gelding" post you received some sound advice from folk..but also some not too helpful stuff, if i remember???

but hey-ho,
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Can I just remind people TBs were originally crossbreeds (Arabs and natives), and the Dobermann was made from nine different breeds of dog!

I agree that there's a lot of snobbery flying round about pedigree animals - crossbreeds are often healthier and have a nicer temperament than hot headed purebreeds. Is it a "modern" thing that every horse (or dog, or cat) has to have its lineage traceable back the the year dot? Crossbreed ponies in particular used to be in high demand when I was a kid!

Someone else mentioned racehorses - I've heard of them being slung out in fields and left to rot (IIRC Hello Dandy, a Grand National winner was found in similar circumstances a few years back) because they either don't make the grade, or they stop winning (ie making money for the owners/trainers/punters) or sent to sales and bought up by the pikeys or meatmen for a couple of hundred quid. So good breeding is no guarantee of a good life.

I rather like that foal! I assume it's been curled up inside it's mum for the past few months, and needs time to straighten out, and yes, I agree that there's been some hurtful remarks made about it.

It doesn't matter a sod how knowledgeable a person is on any subject, nobody should go out of their way to be insulting. "It's how s/he is" is no excuse for upsetting people - it's how they are because they've been allowed to behave in that way, and IMO it's wrong.

Tact seems to be a dirty word these days.
 
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nobody should go out of their way to be insulting. "It's how s/he is" is no excuse for upsetting people - it's how they are because they've been allowed to behave in that way, and IMO it's wrong.

Tact seems to be a dirty word these days.

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i'll mention it to "The Olds" when i see them the weekend that their parenting skills stink

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Happy horse I have already said I didn't mean see what comes out, but see if she does take as she rarely comes in to season. He's a nice stallion owned by a well known breeder in our area.
 
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Happy horse I have already said I didn't mean see what comes out, but see if she does take as she rarely comes in to season. He's a nice stallion owned by a well known breeder in our area.

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as you havent replied yet, I assume you havent seen my question.

What is this section d crossed with and who is it licenced by???
 
Prepare to put me on UI also.
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His random breeding doesn't really bode too well for his future security. Not jumping on any particular bandwagon, but there are plenty of ponies and horses already out there in desperate need of a chance. Does your friend guarantee him a home for life and if not has she done her level best to ensure he has every chance of being someone's superstar? I'm not saying he won't, or that he might turn into a swan, but sorry, no 'awwww cute' from me. Notwithstanding the fact he's only just born, he's not pretty. I still say bless him because with the indiscriminate way he's been bred, God better had or he's in real trouble.
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And I think he'll end up grey.
 
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This is quite the hot topic
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I am against breeding from any unregistered horses, I have never owned and never will own a horse with unknown parentage.

On a final note the horses that end up travelling hundred of miles in meat wagons to end up in sausages or served up as steaks are not pink papered ponies they're the outcome of ill breeding that no one wants
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I think that's a little too general a train of thought.

Patches is unknown breeding, as is Oliver.

I would be highly offended if anyone was to suggest both of them were useless animals or likely to end up in a meat wagon just because they aren't "pink papered" or pure breeds. (The useless comment is not actually directed at you)

Oliver, especially, is always commented on for being a smart little chap.
 
won't let me view the pic.


anyway, where did anyone say crossbreeds were useless? What an exaggeration and twist of words!!

I assume the stallion of the one in the pic was purebred and licenced and if not, at least had been performance graded? I think that is the bottom line.... not wether crossbreeds are useless or not. I own a crossbreed and he's the most fantastic pony ever....
 
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won't let me view the pic.


anyway, where did anyone say crossbreeds were useless? What an exaggeration and twist of words!!

I assume the stallion of the one in the pic was purebred and licenced and if not, at least had been performance graded? I think that is the bottom line.... not wether crossbreeds are useless or not. I own a crossbreed and he's the most fantastic pony ever....

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Nope stallion was not a 'proper' stallion, it was an escaped ungelded horse that jumped in with a mare one night, she wasn't even know to be in foal for quite a while and the parentage is guessed at being him as he was the only entire male in the vicinity and her type/movement strongly suggest Sec D x

There are a number of posts above suggesting that X breeds are a waste of space and should not be bred.
 
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This is quite the hot topic
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I am against breeding from any unregistered horses, I have never owned and never will own a horse with unknown parentage. I agree that over breeding can cause issue's in itself but cross breeding two registered compatable and successful horses should produce a decent animal.

On a final note the horses that end up travelling hundred of miles in meat wagons to end up in sausages or served up as steaks are not pink papered ponies they're the outcome of ill breeding that no one wants
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[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's a little too general a train of thought.

Patches is unknown breeding, as is Oliver.

I would be highly offended if anyone was to suggest both of them were useless animals or likely to end up in a meat wagon just because they aren't "pink papered" or pure breeds.

Oliver, especially, is always commented on for being a smart little chap.

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Oliver is lovely
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But is it right to intentionally breed something like him? He was lucky in that he turned out nice. What if he's been roach backed or ugly as sin? Honestly now, would you have still purchased him? If he'd been older, and a complete saint, and if your daughter had needed something to teach her the ropes an ugly pony would have been fine, but would you have bought an ugly young pony? Or gone for something better looking? Because those ponies which havent got the papers and which are very young, no-one wants, and they DO end up going for meat. I've heard of yearlings being sold at auction, even recently, for as little as £40 because they have no proved sire and no papers. I know someone who bought a stunning non papered pony at auction last year, it rides and drives etc, and they paid a pittance for it, because no-one wanted it.
 
My new foal is cross bred, and we only know who his mother is because we bought them together.

Thing is, unlike some crossbred foals, he's completely straight of leg and has a good chance of becoming a very good showjumper, not some bowdy legged childrens pony.

Cross breds are everywhere. But breeding a couple of scabby ponies just to see what comes out is why people like Jamie Gray have jobs in the horse industry.
Where do people think these horses come from, mars?

No, they were bred by people wanting to see what came out.

Makes me cross. We only have a foal because his mother and him were cowering in the corner at Beeston. How can apparently horse lovers wish that on anything?
 
so, as an ungelded horse (as opposed to a colt) why wasnt it either papered and used as a stallion, or gelded?

I have NO problems with crossbreeds, what annoys me is ungelded crap, and people not gelding for stupid reasons like 'it's not coltish' or 'it looks nice'. The country is full of them... and people wonder why the likes of Jamie Grey do so much buisness
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<font color="blue"> Cross breds are everywhere. But breeding a couple of scabby ponies just to see what comes out is why people like Jamie Gray have jobs in the horse industry.
Where do people think these horses come from, mars?

No, they were bred by people wanting to see what came out.

Makes me cross. We only have a foal because his mother and him were cowering in the corner at Beeston. How can apparently horse lovers wish that on anything?
</font>

And to Patches - intentional breeding is the thing here. You and Charlie have stepped in - as have I - to give these unpapered and dare I say it 'mistakes' the homes they need. It is a throwaway society and I'd love nothing more than to come on here and see the 'rare' foal doing a great job with all its legs in good shape and so on. Nothing more than that. Will it even be in the same home in six months time? I hope it is gelded as soon as feasible, too.

Oh, I mustn't forget to mention that mealy-mouthed goat JM07 who has no idea about the market for rubbing rags.......
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I'm sorry, but why was it so wrong to breed Oliver intentionally? For him to have turned out the way he has, it stands to reason that his sire and dam were rather well put together animals themselves doesn't it.....well they must have been otherwise the theory of the more snobby members on here is somewhat flawed.

There are plenty of pure bred animals with shocking conformation. Even with the best breeding lines in the world, there are still issues outside of breeding that have relevance on whether the offspring will turn out to have riding careers or not. Nutrition and handling in their formative months/years are pivotal IMO.

Putting two registered horses together does not guarantee you superstar offspring at all.

To be fair, I wouldn't have been interested in a top bred horse of any description for myself and looks weren't the bee all and end all with Oliver, far from it.
 
JM07, I am in a particularly belligerent mood tonight....

At the weekend I visited a pure Section D foal with perfect looks and conformation and was stunned. She is absolutely perfect.

The picture of Sophie's friend's foal left me feeling, oh, it's not the best looking but I'm sure it will grow into its looks in time.

Photographs do not always show a true image and it has only just been born, for heaven's sake. The foal I saw at the weekend is six weeks old.

I had an unregistered NF/TB gelding from the age of 7 to 29 who was the loveliest horse I will ever hope to have. I wonder what he looked like 24 hours after he had been born?

And, what about that early picture of that lovely George you have posted when you bought him at the sales? He looks ghastly. But now he has turned into a really lovely pony.

If people had said, "crikey, what a big head he has" and "god, he looks so sad, what a mistake of breeding," wouldn't that have really p*ssed you off?

You are too keen to jump on to other people's posts without thinking about the repercussions and the only result it has is to spark a mammoth and unpleasant debate and make yourself look cold and unfeeling, which I am sure you are not.
 
Don't you just think that the message here is responsible breeding?
As long as you are 100% confident you are going to be able to offer your newborn a home for life...... if you are unable to sell it to a responsible owner.
There are all sorts of horses and ponies doing all sorts of useful jobs.
Its the same for puppies and kittens.....
This forum offers every view from every corner... but we all want the same thing... the best for our horses.
We should only breed from our horses if we know eactly what we are doing.... end of.
 
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