How rare is this!!

Can you explain to me what you meant by rare? I dont mean this horribly, it is just that NF / Welsh is unlikely to be a rare combination!

As for the comments as so his quality - it would be impossible as that age to tell whether or not he is going to grow into a 'quality foal' - their legs are slack as new borns - normally a few weeks later you will see a big difference as everything tightens up.

Whilst I agree with JM07's comments about indescriminate breeding producing Fugly foals, I think this little chap needs to be given a few more weeks to 'unfurl' before being branded a fugly baby. As long as the breeders are happy that they have chosen a quality mare and crossed her with a good quality stallion whos traits will compliment the mares then there should be no problem.

Looking at the colour of the hair on the underside of his tail, he will be grey.
 
I think he looks cute - I can't comment on his parentage as I don't know very much about breeding
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My TBx is unregistered and her parents were unregistered. She doesn't have any defects apart from her back which was partially caused by her previous owners starving her while she was a baby and partially caused by her going backwards over a fence as a two year old.
 
I was just about to say about the title of the post, I didn't mean the foal is ''rare'' but that he was actually born on his due date!
And it was her 1st baby too!
 
I think your friends little foal has a better start in life than a lot in that he has owners who care for him, he may not be the prettiest but as someone has said beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

As for JM07 I wouldn't worry, you only have to see her comments on other threads to see she is not one to worry about tact or diplomacy, I do agree with her sentiments though in that as with dogs, we don't really need more people breeding indiscriminatly unless they are keeping the offspring for themselves for life.

Foals change as they grow and no-one can really say how this little chap will turn out .
 
I cannot believe how a post about a foal can become so personal and nasty... at the end of the day, this foal obviously means a lot to Sophie, and I think it was pure thoughtless behaviour calling it 'fugly'.

I agree that the foal's legs would benefit from restricted exercise, and as your vet is already monitoring the foal I am sure this has already been done and he is well on his way to strengthening up now
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As for cross breeds and horses from unregistered parents, all I can say is I have three horses, all of which have one or more unregistered line. Hannah is of unknown breeding, IDxTB and is competing affiliated BD having qualified for the Regionals and is now out competing Elementary. Her foal is obviously unknown on his dam's side (but he straight paces and temperment made her suitable for breeding) and has outstanding presence and movement. My young mare is TBxWB out of an unknown racing mare called Daisy May. She is extremely talented and has been praised very highly indeed by a trusted source
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So, it just shows, breeding is not everything! If the horse/pony can do its job, breeding is irrelevant.
 
Honestly reading this post it's all a bit mad isn't it. A pic of a foal has caused all this? Why?! Personally I don't think I've seen a 'pretty' new born foal yet - they all look squashed and 'bent' to me when they're born. Same view I have with babies I'm afraid but I wouldn't say to a new mum that "Ew god your baby's ugly" cos that would be seen as tactless and rude wouldn't it!

Yep indiscriminate breeding is silly when there's too many unwanted animals around already but, to be honest what annoys ME more is when someone decides to breed from a mare who say is unrideable due to someting like navicular or some other degenerative condition or has a god awful temperament - what's the point of passing those traits on. No matter how 'well bred' the horse may be?! Makes no sense to me. If a mare is healthy and has a decent temperament and the stallion is the same then I do not see the problem.
 
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Honestly reading this post it's all a bit mad isn't it. A pic of a foal has caused all this? Why?! Personally I don't think I've seen a 'pretty' new born foal yet - they all look squashed and 'bent' to me when they're born.



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If you compare this foal to one of quality breeding you will see the difference. Im sorry but i completely agree that this particular foal is fugly! I certainly wouldnt be proud of creating it if it were mine.
 
Just wanted to add my twopence worth. I know very little about breeding but certainly with dogs, the rescue centres tend to all say that the healthiest ones are heinz 57s, assumed to be because of the wider gene pool. So many breeds of dog, chicken and I think cows now have typical problems known to be common in the breed because their gene pools are not large enough. I'm not saying it happens in the horse world, and I'm not discrediting those that say you should choose the characteristics of both mum and dad carefully., but I'm sure similar principals apply. How many heinz 57 ponies do you remember from growing up that you had brilliant times with? Not everyone wants something with a brilliant pedigree and confirmation, as long as it can do its job safely and soundly.

Calling someone else's foal fugly was IMO unnecessary. If you don't have constructive to say don't say anything.
 
..and the ugly duckling turned into a beautiful swan...!
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I agree with naturally though, if you don't like something then maybe rather than posting a comment that could cause upset why not just not bother?

I've seen plenty of wonderfully bred horses who I personally think look hideous and I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. There are also plenty of not so well put together and not so attractive horses at the top of their game as there are plenty of well bred horses who end up on the meat wagon cos they're unrideable or 'broken'! I think it's irrelvant to be honest, this horse could make a fantastic childs pony, who knows. Let it be, if it's healthy and happy so be it - you don't have to buy it!
 
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Honestly reading this post it's all a bit mad isn't it. A pic of a foal has caused all this? Why?! Personally I don't think I've seen a 'pretty' new born foal yet - they all look squashed and 'bent' to me when they're born. Same view I have with babies I'm afraid but I wouldn't say to a new mum that "Ew god your baby's ugly" cos that would be seen as tactless and rude wouldn't it!

Yep indiscriminate breeding is silly when there's too many unwanted animals around already but, to be honest what annoys ME more is when someone decides to breed from a mare who say is unrideable due to someting like navicular or some other degenerative condition or has a god awful temperament - what's the point of passing those traits on. No matter how 'well bred' the horse may be?! Makes no sense to me. If a mare is healthy and has a decent temperament and the stallion is the same then I do not see the problem.

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Here here, good coment. This lovely (in my opinion) little foal will probably make a good childs pony. The majority of good childrens ponies are native cross breeds, just like this one. If the parent are of good temperament then hopefully they will pass it on to the foal. After all, temperament, in my opinion is the primary consideration for a childs pony. I hope it will be palamino because I like them!
 
Sophie - not all foals end up in good homes, 1000's can be seen each year at sales destined to make up the numbers on the meat wagon. JM07 may not be making her point very politely - but she obviously has more experience of this side of the horse dealing world than you do
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I bought this little chap last week - he's just 2 years old
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hes Arab x Welsh.

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When I contacted the previous owner (who didn't breed him) she THOUGHT she had sold him to a good home - he's on his 4th home already. If you don't have a guaranteed market it's best NOT to breed ANY mare. Not many people want a pony until it's old enough for a child to ride and handle.
 
I think he's beautiful - being unregistered or a cross breed wouldn't put me off any horse/pony. I'm sure he is going to be well loved.

Poor little thing at only a few hours old getting such abuse! Give him a chance to find himself!
 
Essentially, I agree with the comments made regarding indiscriminate breeding. Unfortunately however, this type of breeding has always taken place and, I am sure, will always continue to do so.

I learnt to ride and enjoyed a wonderful childhood on many a mis-matched pony and own at the moment an odd-shaped little chap who has taught my daughter so much, given her so much confidence and makes her beam from ear to ear on a regular basis - you can't put a price on that
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Just wanted to add my twopence worth. I know very little about breeding but certainly with dogs, the rescue centres tend to all say that the healthiest ones are heinz 57s, assumed to be because of the wider gene pool.

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i would imagine the rescue centre's would have plenty of experience with the heinz 57 as these are the 'disposable dogs' I dare say people would think a longer and harder before taking on a £500 pedigree than a freebie heinz 57. I'm not saying the mixed breed dogs aren't good but I think they are often the ones that fall on hard time and the same follows for horses
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How many heinz 57 ponies do you remember from growing up that you had brilliant times with? Not everyone wants something with a brilliant pedigree and confirmation, as long as it can do its job safely and soundly.



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I can honestly say none, however, I did have various friends who were seriously injured by heinz 57 ponies, again maybe due to a lack of care, it doesn't cost anything to breed so what does it matter if you don't treat it well.
 
Lots of people will have "warmbloods" or Sport Horses that are definitely heinz 57s - part thoroughbred, part arab, part welsh or NF etc. In fact isn't the whole principle of the warmblood mixing hot bloods like tbs and arabs with native ponies or drafts to improve the overall quality of the offspring?

Just because something is a mix of different breeds doesn't mean its not bred well or isn't a quality horse. So long as someone breeds sensibly and breeds together quality horses that will compliment each other, I don't see that it matters if its pure bred or not - although I would never support anyone breeding just for the sake of it, without any consideration of what will happen to the foal when its born.

Your argument about cost doesn't really stand up that much - just look at the racing industry - pure blood horses that cost a fortune to breed and look how many of them are junky and get sold off for peanuts if they don't win? By contrast little kids ponies if they are well trained, no matter what breed they are, will often have a succession of loving homes and be spoilt rotten.
 
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Your argument about cost doesn't really stand up that much - just look at the racing industry - pure blood horses that cost a fortune to breed and look how many of them are junky

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You;ve only got to look at Green Monkey. Purchased for $16m. Never raced, because it's crap!
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The mare was brought 7 years ago for her daughter, in the last 7 years the daughter has done extremely well, she stopped competing on her last winter as she outgrew her and is now on a 13.2hh, She's a fun, safe sweet pony that even I can ride!
She's done ODE's, dressage and hunting and gymkahanas.

She might not be special to anyone else but she's special to my friend and has a home for life.

I know that when you sell a horse on you dont know where it will end up, but I know that my friend wouldn't sell him to any dodgy dealers ect... Knowing her she'll end up keeping him!
He'll be gelded as soon as his bits drop!
 
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I dont understand why there is so much controversy surrounding cross breeding. I thought that inbreeding would cause more trouble to an animal-ANY animal (brothers and sisters mating)
 
Sorry I don't agree with your observations that,

a, heinz dogs are more likely to be disguarded, I see Bulldogs in rescue centres and at £ 2000 a pop these aren't in the classification of ' disposeable' People fall on hard times no matter what breed they own and the same for horses. If xbreeding disposes a dog to being disguarded whats with the fashion for labradoodles etc

b, a xbred pony is more likely to injure you ??? The most dangerous horses i've come across are those too highly bred who have no regard for themselves or their handler.
 
I have no qualms about cross breeding providing the mare and stallion are well put together and sound. Here is one of my foals born last year - out of my little Connemara X pony mare and by my registered APHA boy. This is her at 12 hours old.

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Now where this little one is concerned, yes it was a risk I took by breeding the mare to my boy, because the likelihood of breeding something which may not be desirable on the open market is greater than if I stuck to type. However, in my case, had this little one turned out to be an oddity (which she isn't) then it wouldn't have mattered as I am keeping her, so she would never end up in a dubious home. She's actually turned into a very nicely put together filly and is eminently suitable for the pony market - she just isn't going there
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The point that I was trying to make, is that there is nothing wrong with crossbreeds, BUT when breeding them, there IS most definitely a greater risk taken, in that you have no idea what you will end up with, versus breeding a foal from registered stock where you pretty much KNOW what you will end up with. Obviously this is not always the case, because there are no guarantees, but you most definitely lessen your risk when breeding to known entities.

And further to a comment made above; yes I have seen many many beautiful newborn foals, both from registered and unregistered stock.
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May I remind JMO7 that Sophie only posted to ask what colour her foal would end up.
She did NOT ask for an opinion on the foals conformation etc.
If JMO7 was genuinely concerned about the foals "fetlocks" she could have just private messaged Sophie instead of posting nasty comments.
Deeming anyone's horse "fugly" is below the belt and totally out of order!
IMO JMO7 is the one who needs to "grow up" and learn some manners and tact, not Sophie.
 
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it's "cuckoo" with a "K".....

[/ QUOTE ] And it's 'let's' with an apostrophe. Point being? Whilst your first comment was helpful, JM07, I felt that subsequently you became personal and vindictive and despite stating in your signature that if people disagree with you, they should say so, when they did, you got upset about it. Perhaps your signature needs correcting?

About the foal, I don't think it's a pretty foal (but as someone else said, what foal ever is?) but I very, very strongly agree with the comments regarding temperament and use. If it turns out to be an excellent pony (whether for a child or an adult) then does it matter if the owner can't trace its lineage back to the Triassic? As far as I can see, a good pony is priceless, and breeding can only guide, not determine, that. After all, every horse and pony is ultimately descended from unregistered, indiscriminately cross-bred stock. On the point of indiscriminate (cross-)breeding, there seems to be an ongoing assumption in some posts that if one or both parents are registered then the breeding cannot be indiscriminate, but it seems obvious to me that a person can (cross-)breed indiscriminately regardless of registration - those with money enough to pick prize studs don't necessarily possess the sense or knowledge to pick one suited to their mare, or their purpose (if they even have one!), and backyard breeders don't necessarily lack the sense or knowledge to spot good conformation and temperament.
 
I think JM07 likes to be nasty, she does some useful work but IMO all her threads and comments are confrontational. Tact, diplomacy, feelings of others etc etc are not part of her make- up.

I agree that people on an open forum should be able to express their views but there are ways of doing it so that people can see another side of the coin, but it doesn't have to be done so unkindly with such hostility.

Where and how does it help anyone to have their animals ripped apart, if anyone of us posted pics of ours there would always be someone to find something to dislike about it.
 
Actually I think you're wrong about JM07, she can be blunt but if you look back through the recents posts to find Sophie's worries about have her colt gelded you'll see that one of the most helpful, informative and reassuring posters was JM07. I haven't looked at any other posts, I came across that one when I was researching something else.

I am concerned that the foal is not actually Sophie's so I don't know whether she had permission to post it - I'd be bloody annoyed if it were mine, whether it was getting the sort of comment this one has got or the "Ooh isn't it lovely" comments - which this one also got plenty of.
 
Oh I dunno. I have to say, if I was posting about a horse and wanted critique on it, then I'd far rather have a JM character saying it how she sees it, than someone else saying "beautiful, stunning" and then running off to the PM system to b1tch about it to others. It doesn't mean she is necessarily right with her critiques; eh JM? How about that grey QH I bought recently which looked the pits in the pre purchase photos, but has turned out to be lovely with the right sort of work and feed. Give JM her due, when I reposted on the mare after we had had her for a little while, she did offer to eat her hat!
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I do, however, feel bad for Sophie though - maybe sugar coating would have been kinder, but that is what makes this place unique, in that people are people - we see their true characters and it is not all a charade unlike so many other forums! Which would you all prefer?

Snapshots are never easy to make overall judgements on. I hope this little foal unfolds and becomes everything his owners wish for.
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I have a Irish WB by all accounts - TB x Connemara!
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There are so many 'warmbloods' out there - I know I insure a load but funnily enough many don't seem to have any actual breeding papers etc. Also what about the 'Irish Sport Horses'? What on earth are they supposed to be? There doesn't ever seem to be a specific standard or breed type does there. It's just very funny all this breed snobbery. Any horse can end up at a god awful home and quite frankly most of the ones that are discarded are due to them having behavioural problems (which in my opinion seem to occur more often than not in hot headed 'pure bred' horses - same with dogs!) than due to their breeding.

Likewise tonnes of racehorses aged 2/3 years old are destroyed each year as they are deemed not good enough for racing. That to me is pointless and disgusting.

With the dog rescue comment, actually when we got our 'heinz 57' from a rescue home many of the dogs there were Alsations, Collies, Staffies and the like, and where does the 'pure bred' and cross breed stop? What is a Labradoodle for example - it sure ain't a pure bred is it yet they seem to want an awful lot of money for them!
 
I think you are absolutely right, most people would prefer to hear genuine feedback about their issue be it positive or negative but in this case Sophie asked about colour changes in the foal not a confirmation critique, thus leading on to a nasty spat. I also feel that JM may have some valid points but she portrays herself in such an aggressive way that what she says is lost through the way she says it.
 
JM07 has only ever been nice and helpful to me once and it was that one post about my colt being gelded!!
Yes I do have permission to post pictures, she asked me to post on here to ask opinions on his colour.
 
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